Training - Monday 9th January, 2012

[mordja 187]

Thanks to all the reporters. Much appreciate as we wait for the real thing,

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

This is my first preseason with Demonland, really appreciating these bi-weekly training reports.

[Demon 16 213]

The perception of a lowering in intensity over the xmas & early Jan period could well be planned. You wouldn't want to drill them for a full 6 months. I presume it will pick up again.

Another thing is that clubs will put more intensity into fitness work early in a preseason, and then move the intensity to skill and tactical sessions later in the preseason.

These guys will get a lot of their fitness work done in skill sessions anyway.

[Webber 10,465]

In terms of concerns about the intensity of the running during training I can say that the training session is really only 1 component of the day's work for these guys.

Prime example: I was running the Tan this morning and saw James Sellar putting in a hard hard effort up Anderson St Hill. I'm not sure how far he had already run or ran after I saw him but we should know players are doing a lot more than the training sessions on the oval. I have seen him there regularly during the off season and he seems to continually punish himself.

Neeld also mentioned to me that there are 47 individual programs running at the moment and every player has specifics to complete daily around running or weights etc. It is very specific and scientific. Far more to fitness than meets the eye.

Well said Footynut, Freak's suggestion that there is a less than optimal, or ideal fitness workload for any player and their specific situation is just monumentally ignorant. And that may be the understatement of 2012 thus far........

[Whispering_Jack 30,018]

Having commented about the impact I expect the arrival of Mitch Clark to have on the team and the forward set up in particular, I pick up the paper and I'm told that AFL key forwards are close to extinction in SuperCoach land - Gorillas on the brink

The article states that the "fact no key forwards could find a spot in the top 15 priced players for next season is a sign they are on shaky ground."

"The problem, as Champion Data's Glenn Luff explains, is that key forwards rely too much on other players to provide consistent value for SuperCoaches", and that "they are reliant on the midfield having a good day and statistically are the most inconsistent of all player types."

OK. I'll buy that and confess I don't follow SuperCoach or any of those other football fantasy gimmicks but the last time I looked, there were still 22 and not 15 players in an AFL side and I would still be picking a Buddy Franklin or a Travis Cloke in my first five players if I were selecting my AFL team - one that actually runs out onto the ground rather than one that plays inside a computer.

Still, this SuperCoach thing has certainly taken off given the amount of space dedicated to its promotion.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Cook - Looks like a stick insect. 3 years away at least.

Bloody hell. I hope this is not the case. He was pick 12 in a good draft - I hope he turns out not to be another Molan selection.

[Demon 16 213]

Having commented about the impact I expect the arrival of Mitch Clark to have on the team and the forward set up in particular, I pick up the paper and I'm told that AFL key forwards are close to extinction in SuperCoach land - Gorillas on the brink

The article states that the "fact no key forwards could find a spot in the top 15 priced players for next season is a sign they are on shaky ground."

"The problem, as Champion Data's Glenn Luff explains, is that key forwards rely too much on other players to provide consistent value for SuperCoaches", and that "they are reliant on the midfield having a good day and statistically are the most inconsistent of all player types."

OK. I'll buy that and confess I don't follow SuperCoach or any of those other football fantasy gimmicks but the last time I looked, there were still 22 and not 15 players in an AFL side and I would still be picking a Buddy Franklin or a Travis Cloke in my first five players if I were selecting my AFL team - one that actually runs out onto the ground rather than one that plays inside a computer.

Still, this SuperCoach thing has certainly taken off given the amount of space dedicated to its promotion.

I think this article is specifically referring to the fact that power forwards dont score that well in Supercoach these days - not that they are decreasing in value in the real thing.

Clark will be worth so much for us even if he doesnt kick alot of goals or take alot of marks..

[monoccular 17,422]

I think this article is specifically referring to the fact that power forwards dont score that well in Supercoach these days - not that they are decreasing in value in the real thing. Clark will be worth so much for us even if he doesnt kick alot of goals or take alot of marks..

It surely just demonstrates what an absolute fantasy these fantasy footy games actually are.

I don't give the proverbial rat's clacker how many super coach or dream team points or whatever Clark gets provided he offers a target, marks or brings the ball down to the smaller blokes, and pressures to keep the ball in our forward line if he can't get it himself.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Having commented about the impact I expect the arrival of Mitch Clark to have on the team and the forward set up in particular, I pick up the paper and I'm told that AFL key forwards are close to extinction in SuperCoach land - Gorillas on the brink

The article states that the "fact no key forwards could find a spot in the top 15 priced players for next season is a sign they are on shaky ground."

"The problem, as Champion Data's Glenn Luff explains, is that key forwards rely too much on other players to provide consistent value for SuperCoaches", and that "they are reliant on the midfield having a good day and statistically are the most inconsistent of all player types."

OK. I'll buy that and confess I don't follow SuperCoach or any of those other football fantasy gimmicks but the last time I looked, there were still 22 and not 15 players in an AFL side and I would still be picking a Buddy Franklin or a Travis Cloke in my first five players if I were selecting my AFL team - one that actually runs out onto the ground rather than one that plays inside a computer.

Still, this SuperCoach thing has certainly taken off given the amount of space dedicated to its promotion.

Give it a go WJ it is great fun and it keeps you interested in other than demon games, its easy

[Demon 16 213]

It surely just demonstrates what an absolute fantasy these fantasy footy games actually are.

I don't give the proverbial rat's clacker how many super coach or dream team points or whatever Clark gets provided he offers a target, marks or brings the ball down to the smaller blokes, and pressures to keep the ball in our forward line if he can't get it himself.

I dont think anyone is suggesting supercoach scoring is an accurate reflection of a players worth in the real thing.

[Steamin Demon 392]

Steamin Demon - I think this is the first time I have seen anyone mention Dunn, the forgotten man maybe?

You mention clean handling - any other positives for him, as surely this must be his "crossroads season". Now Lynden is not the only one of course, one must add Bate and possibly Bartram, with other more skilled taggers maybe emerging.

You also mention Tom McDonald out marking Frawley on a few occasions. Are we going to have an embarrassment of tall forwards, not that I would be complaining :-)

Mono, Dunny stood mainly because he was training 5M from where I was standing but its was the crispness with the way he gathered and grabbed the ball that stood out to me. They were doing a drill where they would line up in two parallel line then two would run and weave between the stick then receive the hands from Choco then give it back and whilst returning to the line Todd Viney would unexpectadly spear handballs at them (Sylvia copped one in the back off the head). It was in this drill that Sylvia really demonstrated his turn of speed and monuverabilty.

A little interesting thing while this drill was going Bartram jogged past Todd Viney and pleaded for him to 'Get me back in there' to which Todd replied 'Why? what are you doing'? before disappearing inside.

[Steamin Demon 392]

Bloody hell. I hope this is not the case. He was pick 12 in a good draft - I hope he turns out not to be another Molan selection.

He was by far our skinniest tall forward out there yesterday. I think he is still on a modified programme bacause when I left he, Sylvia and Lawrence all split from the main group to do some short sharp handballing drills with one of the assistants.

[drdrake 3,163]

It is good to read positive reports, the best thing about the players we are bringing into our club it decreases some pressure on players to fill roles that they shouldn't have been playing. Dunn and Bate are two that have been around for a few years, we expected them to play as tall forwards, the never had the size to play this role. They both then go into limbo, what role will I play hopefully they both can get a role and show why they are first round picks. Dunn is a very smart footballer and can kick goals, all of the sudden he becomes our 5th or 6th forward instead of our 2nd/3rd. We are going to have a very hard forward line to match up on, we will have three talls Clark, Watts and Martim/Jamar plus players that can play tall/small Jurrah, Dunn, Petterd, Howe, Green

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,750]

Steamin Demon - I think this is the first time I have seen anyone mention Dunn, the forgotten man maybe?

You mention clean handling - any other positives for him, as surely this must be his "crossroads season". Now Lynden is not the only one of course, one must add Bate and possibly Bartram, with other more skilled taggers maybe emerging.

You also mention Tom McDonald out marking Frawley on a few occasions. Are we going to have an embarrassment of tall forwards, not that I would be complaining :-)

Having watched Dunn for a few years now I've been concerned that he seems to have reasonable skills with ball in hand but no idea where to play, that is, where to place himself in a game. The optimist in me suggests that perhaps that was caused by poor coaching. While there has been much discussion about Bate being "re-invented" by a new coach, perhaps the same may happen for Dunn, too.

[Lutz 76]

Bloody hell. I hope this is not the case. He was pick 12 in a good draft - I hope he turns out not to be another Molan selection.

Big difference between "3 years away" and "another Molan selection".

Bigs can take time.

Chris Dawes certainly did.

And, worst case scenario, he turns out to be not good enough - it's not the end of the world.

Hawthorn has survived spending top 10 picks on Muston, Ellis, Thorp and Dowler, yet still won a flag and has statistically the best list in the comp.

[rjay 24,917]

Bloody hell. I hope this is not the case. He was pick 12 in a good draft - I hope he turns out not to be another Molan selection.

Big difference between "3 years away" and "another Molan selection".

Bigs can take time.

Chris Dawes certainly did.

And, worst case scenario, he turns out to be not good enough - it's not the end of the world.

Hawthorn has survived spending top 10 picks on Muston, Ellis, Thorp and Dowler, yet still won a flag and has statistically the best list in the comp.

We picked up Jeremy Howe at 33 and Tommy Mcdonald at 53 in the same draft so I reckon we may have done pretty well even if Cook doesn't come through.

[monoccular 17,422]

It is good to read positive reports, the best thing about the players we are bringing into our club it decreases some pressure on players to fill roles that they shouldn't have been playing. Dunn and Bate are two that have been around for a few years, we expected them to play as tall forwards, the never had the size to play this role. They both then go into limbo, what role will I play hopefully they both can get a role and show why they are first round picks. Dunn is a very smart footballer and can kick goals, all of the sudden he becomes our 5th or 6th forward instead of our 2nd/3rd. We are going to have a very hard forward line to match up on, we will have three talls Clark, Watts and Martim/Jamar plus players that can play tall/small Jurrah, Dunn, Petterd, Howe, Green

I certainly hope that you are right re Dunn and Bate underachieving and poor coaching.

Undoubtedly they are skilled players, but they have been really nomads.

Now with Neeld's emphasis on "roles" I wil be fascinated just what role he has in mind for these two in particular.

[Yokozuna 1,004]

I have been to a few sessions this pre season, and am happy to see the work being put in. I also think that the work rate is higher than most people think, as the drills they are doing have barely any time to recover or rest in them.

In regards to Dunn, personally I have never been the biggest fan of his, I know he can be clever and has kicked some good goals, but I dont rate him that highly. His aggression (or so called aggression) reminds me of Campbell Brown. I think he will struggle for a game, and I will be a little disappointed if he is getting a game, as it means our better players are not playing well. All being said, I wont be upset if he proves me wrong, and dominates!

[Bay Riffin 1,474]

I certainly hope that you are right re Dunn and Bate underachieving and poor coaching.

Undoubtedly they are skilled players, but they have been really nomads.

Now with Neeld's emphasis on "roles" I wil be fascinated just what role he has in mind for these two in particular.

Dunn and Bate will not survive as forwards. They just can't keep going forward when we now have Watts and Clark with Cook, McDonald, Fitzpatrick to develop.

Bate has shown more lately and think most hold some hope for him as his attitude and performance at VFL level was still very good. I think it will be interesting to see him run on ball. He looks like a good 'generalist', good tank, decent mark and long kick, but no elite pace or skills.

Dunn interestingly spent years as an on-baller/run with type and lost his way a bit. I think he looks on his very last legs and right now would be first candidate to be de-listed next year. I would actually play him half back in a Nick Maxwell role and just try and be the ultimate team man, picking up third talls and using his kicking skills to break lines. Throw him down there at Casey and see what happens.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Dunn and Bate will not survive as forwards. They just can't keep going forward when we now have Watts and Clark with Cook, McDonald, Fitzpatrick to develop.

Bate has shown more lately and think most hold some hope for him as his attitude and performance at VFL level was still very good. I think it will be interesting to see him run on ball. He looks like a good 'generalist', good tank, decent mark and long kick, but no elite pace or skills.

Dunn interestingly spent years as an on-baller/run with type and lost his way a bit. I think he looks on his very last legs and right now would be first candidate to be de-listed next year. I would actually play him half back in a Nick Maxwell role and just try and be the ultimate team man, picking up third talls and using his kicking skills to break lines. Throw him down there at Casey and see what happens.

I agree Bay Riffen.

I can see Bater, IF he improves his hands & below the knees handling to be a possibility in the Mids, but also down the back. I'd also Really like to see Bater increase his aggression, @ the ball & the ball carrier.

Dunny, hmmn, has all the skill & athleticism but maybe should have been an athletics Try athlete. Long Jumper? Definitely 'on the block'. I wouldn't trust him in my team in a finals game.

[Guest Deefence]

A little interesting thing while this drill was going Bartram jogged past Todd Viney and pleaded for him to 'Get me back in there' to which Todd replied 'Why? what are you doing'? before disappearing inside.

Sounds like Barty's keen to get out of the rehab group! Had surgery a few weeks back IIRC on his knee.

Neeld is apparently a fan, so will not be surprised to see him get some game time this year. Should have his 100th early on. But if Barty can hold down a spot, and Bater is in the running, I think Dunny will be spending a lot of time at Casey and probably walking at the end of the year. GWS or GC?

[savoydee 6]

My afternoon and evening were busier than I thought they would be but happily most of the above posters have well and truly covered much of what transpired at training so just a few random observations from me:

The first thing I noticed was Lynden Dunn's moustache. It's still there and it still looks frightful. Lynden was working with the forwards and there's definitely going to be plenty of competition for places in that division.

I remember the first training session I attended in the new year of 2011 and finishing up waxing lyrical about one Tom Scully training the house down at Casey Fields. Nobody stood out in that manner today but, strangely enough, the player who replaces him IMO (because I'm assuming that if Scully stays we can't afford him), Mitch Clark looked the goods as a tall forward who can take a grab and is mobile as well. Not as mobile or as fast as Jack Watts or Tom McDonald for that matter but it's clear that our combination of tall forwards augmented by the likes of Jurrah, Green, Petterd, Dunn and Howe provide us with plenty of potent forward line options. Even the small forward stocks look good with Davey freshening up for a new season and Sam Blease looking fast and enterprising with his move forward. Where do we fit them all?

Perhaps, the likes of Watts and Howe might find themselves as part of the midfield at some stage?

I've been happy with the development of the defence and I think it can only get better with the re-inclusion of Grimes and Strauss. It's been remarked already that the latter is well advanced on where we all thought he would be but what I did notice as well is that he has bulked up a bit more and this should hold him in good stead for when he returns not too deeply into the season. James Sellar lends a bit of extra size which will come in handy when we come up against the bigger and stronger forward lines.

Getting to the midfield, I would suggest that we're going to be relying in the same olds but Jordan Gysberts looks a little stronger and Rohan Bail looks like putting his hand up for a spot. I watched Dan Nicholson closely and I reckon he's been working hard on his disposal by foot. We're not going to be first world in terms of midfield quality for a while but if Jack Trengove continues to make strides and Jack Grimes is given a go in this area (he was taken out of defence and placed in the midfield for that ill-fated game last year v the Crows) we could surprise. It will be of interest to see how differently Mark Neeld organises the midfield structures compared to his predecessor as this could be the crux of our midfield improvement. It would have been great to have been able to retain Scully (on a reasonable contract) but that was not to be. We won't necessarily have a star studded midfield like Collingwood, Geelong, Hawthorn or Carlton but we might be able to make up for it with some true blue collar workers in this area.

And of course, I missed the new kids on the block although I somehow doubt that any of them will be instant candidates for a senior guernsey.

All in all, I left feeling reasonably confident that a better season awaits in 2012. Same as this time last year but I'm more confident in our ability to kick higher scores if that makes any sense at all.

I feel you are suffering from Scullitis- I suggest you get over it and appreciate what we have got. And cwith 2 Comp picks to use whenever on whatever, and gaining Jack Viney next year.I for one am content in waiting.

[Whispering_Jack 30,018]

I feel you are suffering from Scullitis- I suggest you get over it and appreciate what we have got. And cwith 2 Comp picks to use whenever on whatever, and gaining Jack Viney next year.I for one am content in waiting.

I checked the medical dictionaries and I don't think I'm suffering from Scullitis.

I think it's a reasonable proposition to make that the money we would have spent on Scully is now being spent on Mitch Clark instead and the latter is my preference especially whilst the status of Scully's knee remains an unknown.

Twelve months ago Scully was sparkling at pre season training sessions. That's a fact and he looked to be on his way to stardom as a midfielder. Since then, he got injured and did very little to demonstrate that he had the qualities of a star but I think most supporters would still have been happier to have kept him on a reasonable contract and not the ridiculous money that he and his father are getting in their package from GWS. None of that was to be and I'm entitled to my opinion that the two compensatory picks for a # 1 were inadequate.

All in all, I'm happier with the balance of the squad post-Scully and that's where I stand on the issue.

[alpha33 311]

Feel sorry for those who missed the new blokes at yesterday's training but there's this from an article on melbournefc.com.au Pre-season snapshot: Melbourne

Draftee watch

Mature aged recruit James Sellar was straight into training while young draftees Rory Taggert and Josh Tynan were on programs that reflected their age and experience. Several players who were rookie listed - Tom Couch, Jai Sheahan and Leigh Williams - were training with the club before their name was called out. James Magner had been training at St Kilda. The club was rapt to get four rookies who were well advanced in their pre-season and with Max Gawn out for the whole season, all will push their claims for senior elevation.

Pictures here: - Pre season snaps

[Biffen 12,941]

Funny how everyone's an expert on Bate and Dunn .I thought they weren't even good enough for AFL? Now Bate is like a new recruit to some posters here . Wouldn't surprise me if Bate became a top five Bluey contender .Bailey crucified Bate and Bate kept his chin up .I believe in him 100%. Why do we pick on forwards when our mids were the problem? Dunstall or Lockett would have had the same result in our team last year.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Biffen