8th spot gone

[dees189227 12,401]

I know after last nights performance we probably dont deserve a finals spot but going into the bye next week it just would have been really good if we won last night. Now essendon have taken our spot and if nth beat the saints tomorrow then we drop another spot. The dogs are only 2 points behind us now as well.

We could have been 1 or 2 games ahead and broken away. After the bye we have port then play geelong, hawthorn carlton and west coast.

I guess im also a little more annoyed because somehow the bombers managed to knock off the cats and now the essendon supporters are all smug again.

[titan_uranus 25,045]

It's kind of obvious, but there's only one week in which ladder position means anything, and that's Round 24. Until then it doesn't matter where we are on the ladder.

If we win the games we're supposed to win (Port x 2, Richmond, Gold Coast), we'll end up on 10.5 wins. That will get us somewhere between 8th (if we're very lucky) and about 12th. That will do IMO.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

To be honest, i am glad we lost 8th spot tonight, we do not deserve to be there after losing to the Westies.

I hope the players are pi$$ed off and hurting for it too.

It hurts to make the 8...You must work for it....It is why we should NEVER increase the number of finalists past 8...Beyond 8 the teams are not good enough.

To regain our spot in the 8, the whole club must raise the effort again....weekly.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Looking at our draw, the big 4 scary games right now look almost impossible to consider us a chance of winning. West Coast at Etihad absolutely impossible, Carlton at the G don't even think about it... The Hawks undermanned will still [censored] us by a mile... somehow an over-trained Cats outfit is possibly the closest thing we'll have to a chance...

So when you think about that it will go

- demoralising loss to Dogs by 10 goals.

- bye, where all the media will grumble for 2 weeks.

- Port in Darwin... ???? Could be a loss, don't forget post-bye blues.

- Hawks at MCG... they'll be pretty keen to shore up a top 4 spot. Won't let the foot off the gas. And we're coming off TIO. Demoralising 10 goal loss here.

- Cats at Skilled. I take it back. They don't lose there.

- Carlton at the G. Again. No chance.

- West Coast at Etihad. At the G it might have been a slim chance. At Etihad, which they actually play ok, not a snowball's.

So the upshot of this is: Lose the Port game, (which we'd be a strong chance of doing coming off the bye, in a strange stadium in the heat) and we've had 7 weeks in a row with no win, finals are finished for us even if we did pick up the GC, Richmond and Port games to round out the year, and Bailey is sacked.

Win the Port game, and we'll be 7-7-1... and will likely have to win one of those nasty big four games to have a chance.

Ouch.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

Looking at our draw, the big 4 scary games right now look almost impossible to consider us a chance of winning. West Coast at Etihad absolutely impossible, Carlton at the G don't even think about it... The Hawks undermanned will still [censored] us by a mile... somehow an over-trained Cats outfit is possibly the closest thing we'll have to a chance...

So when you think about that it will go

- demoralising loss to Dogs by 10 goals.

- bye, where all the media will grumble for 2 weeks.

- Port in Darwin... ???? Could be a loss, don't forget post-bye blues.

- Hawks at MCG... they'll be pretty keen to shore up a top 4 spot. Won't let the foot off the gas. And we're coming off TIO. Demoralising 10 goal loss here.

- Cats at Skilled. I take it back. They don't lose there.

- Carlton at the G. Again. No chance.

- West Coast at Etihad. At the G it might have been a slim chance. At Etihad, which they actually play ok, not a snowball's.

So the upshot of this is: Lose the Port game, (which we'd be a strong chance of doing coming off the bye, in a strange stadium in the heat) and we've had 7 weeks in a row with no win, finals are finished for us even if we did pick up the GC, Richmond and Port games to round out the year, and Bailey is sacked.

Win the Port game, and we'll be 7-7-1... and will likely have to win one of those nasty big four games to have a chance.

Ouch.

Yeah, that's pretty close to what I'm seeing too. I think the Carlton game will be closer than many fear, but we won't win it. The other three of the big four are all bigger-bodied sides who will smash us in the middle. Even if we get wins out of the rest of them, I think the best that will get us is 9th, and since that spot should always be reserved for Richmond, count on us going lower than that. Not a great end to the season.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,385]

Looking at our draw, the big 4 scary games right now look almost impossible to consider us a chance of winning. West Coast at Etihad absolutely impossible, Carlton at the G don't even think about it... The Hawks undermanned will still [censored] us by a mile... somehow an over-trained Cats outfit is possibly the closest thing we'll have to a chance...

So when you think about that it will go

- demoralising loss to Dogs by 10 goals.

- bye, where all the media will grumble for 2 weeks.

- Port in Darwin... ???? Could be a loss, don't forget post-bye blues.

- Hawks at MCG... they'll be pretty keen to shore up a top 4 spot. Won't let the foot off the gas. And we're coming off TIO. Demoralising 10 goal loss here.

- Cats at Skilled. I take it back. They don't lose there.

- Carlton at the G. Again. No chance.

- West Coast at Etihad. At the G it might have been a slim chance. At Etihad, which they actually play ok, not a snowball's.

So the upshot of this is: Lose the Port game, (which we'd be a strong chance of doing coming off the bye, in a strange stadium in the heat) and we've had 7 weeks in a row with no win, finals are finished for us even if we did pick up the GC, Richmond and Port games to round out the year, and Bailey is sacked.

Win the Port game, and we'll be 7-7-1... and will likely have to win one of those nasty big four games to have a chance.

Ouch.

I truly wish I could disagree with you 'Dappa Dan' but I can't see much joy for us in the remainder of the year. Let's hope we are both VERY WRONG!

[Dockett 32 1,239]

If we expect to get anywhere soon we should take note of Essendon's win last night and it is high time we started to follow suit. Their list has been decimated by injury yet they managed to play tough hard inside football at Etihad whilst our effort the night before needs little discussion.

The good news is that the players and coaching staff have the remaining games to show the club something special.

Get on with it!

[Bitter but optimistic 22,247]

If we expect to get anywhere soon we should take note of Essendon's win last night and it is high time we started to follow suit. Their list has been decimated by injury yet they managed to play tough hard inside football at Etihad whilst our effort the night before needs little discussion.

The good news is that the players and coaching staff have the remaining games to show the club something special.

Get on with it!

Unfortunately, over the years, Melbourne has often finished the season with "something special" and given supporters some hope and optimism. Then we revert to type, as on Friday night, and blow our chances for yet another year.

[monoccular 17,575]

The really annoying pert of e season so far to me is losing those three games at Doglands - all were against struggling sides, really struggling, yet we lacked the mental toughness to put up a real fight in any of them, other than an unconvincing lead vs North - otherwise just pathetic passive capitulation. ....."too hard to play here"....."never do well here".....mentally beaten even before arriving at the ground.

We will never be successful until we get our minds over this defeatism..never!!

FCS hire a bloody psychologist and find out what the problem is.

We really should, if we were fair dinkum, and won these three, be on 9.5 win knocking on the door of the top 4, with Bailey signing up for a decade!

Instead our defeatist attitude has us struggling for top 10!

[Footynut 302]

People here are talking themselves into depression....

Reality is a young side is going to have ups and downs...

No doubt there are some games coming up we have no right at the moment to consider winning.

However Melbourne have proved time and time again over the years that they play good football when most expect them to lose.

If Essendon proved anything last night it was that you just never know.

I would expect we will knock over one of the mentioned teams unexpected because thats historically what we do.

In addition I can actually see us losing another easy one along the way...thats just the way we are at the moment...

[Face Your Demons 175]

At least we can now claim to have besten a top eight side.

[Dockett 32 1,239]

"No doubt there are some games coming up we have no right at the moment to consider winning."

Ok I'll take the bait.

How does the above comment compare to Essendon's thought process last night?

Anything and everything is possible in football.

[btdemon 482]

People here are talking themselves into depression....

Reality is a young side is going to have ups and downs...

No doubt there are some games coming up we have no right at the moment to consider winning.

However Melbourne have proved time and time again over the years that they play good football when most expect them to lose.

If Essendon proved anything last night it was that you just never know.

I would expect we will knock over one of the mentioned teams unexpected because thats historically what we do.

In addition I can actually see us losing another easy one along the way...thats just the way we are at the moment...

Wise words

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

What Essendon proved last night is that they have A}a gameplan capable of matching top 4 sides. Or B} a bit more mental ticker than our team, to actually beleive they can beat a top 4 side. Or both.

They had a draw with Carlton, beat Geelong and West Coast, and were good against the Pies. For all the rubbish they have produced over the last month, they can still hang there hats on those results. Whilst we can pat ourselevs on the back that we flogged interstate teams(and Tigers and Bombers) at the G, like we have for 4 years now under Bailey. History just keeps repeating.

Edited July 2, 2011 by Jerry Lundergard

[Dockett 32 1,239]

and "C" haven't been taught the acceptable result at Etihad is a loss.

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

I don't get all this 'let's take a look at Essendon and follow them' talk.

Did the people that are making such statements watch them the previous week against Hawthorn? They were absolutely insipid against an injury-depleted Hawthorn. A few weeks before that they were woeful against Freo in Perth. Yeah they pulled off an amazing result last night but don't forget what they served up over the previous four weeks.

There were similar comments about Richmond earlier in the year when they were flying. 'Look at Richmond, they're a young side too and look at how well they are playing'. Well I wonder if those people are still making those comments after the Tigers lost to Port and got absolutely belted by Carlton yesterday.

Not to mention the fact that we beat both Essendon and Richmond this year.

Yeah we've put in some stinkers this year (probably a few too many) but so have Richmond and so have Essendon and so have most other teams who currently occupy the mid-range positions on the ladder.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Scoop Junior

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Just in case you didn't notice Scoop, Essendon just took our spot in the 8 by knocking over the previously undefeated top side while we got belted by a moderate outfit below us. Credit where it's due, Essendon deserve their moment in the sun. We haven't earned ours yet.

[Akum 2,660]

Just in case you didn't notice Scoop, Essendon just took our spot in the 8 by knocking over the previously undefeated top side while we got belted by a moderate outfit below us. Credit where it's due, Essendon deserve their moment in the sun. We haven't earned ours yet.

You keep pushing this.

Essendon won because two of their coaches knew the Geelong side inside out, knew where they were vulnerable, and exploited it beautifully. They planned and prepared and gave the players something to play for. It's not that they just had a positive attitude - that's Oprah, not AFL!

We lose because nothing changes. We don't learn from our previous losses. We don't learn what to do when a side (any side) nullifies our strengths, and we don't learn what to do when they exploit our weaknesses. We all get sucked in to blaming the players' attitude.

At least we had a crack on Friday. We just found that the harder we tried, the worse it got. We literally had no answers.

And that's the coaching staff. Not just Bailey - we have nobody in our current coaching staff who has any tactical or strategic capacity whatsoever. If that doesn't change, nothing will change.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

You keep pushing this.

Essendon won because two of their coaches knew the Geelong side inside out, knew where they were vulnerable, and exploited it beautifully. They planned and prepared and gave the players something to play for. It's not that they just had a positive attitude - that's Oprah, not AFL!

We lose because nothing changes. We don't learn from our previous losses. We don't learn what to do when a side (any side) nullifies our strengths, and we don't learn what to do when they exploit our weaknesses. We all get sucked in to blaming the players' attitude.

At least we had a crack on Friday. We just found that the harder we tried, the worse it got. We literally had no answers.

And that's the coaching staff. Not just Bailey - we have nobody in our current coaching staff who has any tactical or strategic capacity whatsoever. If that doesn't change, nothing will change.

Very well put Akum...i agree totally. The coaching staff would all know now that there jobs are right on the line, i hope the Fight like Hell to keep them.

This will require some bold risk taking.

In Bailey's Favour, he is not frightened to play the kids. But the Club must learn from bad defeats, which is hard to notice so far this year.

[biggestred 5,140]

pfft. essendon won because they kicked accurately for goal and geelong did not.

[Hardnut 327]

Very well said Akum. One more (frightening) thought to add - Geelong won't just dismiss this loss, they will learn from it and adapt and improve!

[Dockett 32 1,239]

"At least we had a crack on Friday. We just found that the harder we tried, the worse it got. We literally had no answers."

That's the way you saw it Akum which is ok by me, the way I saw it was differently in so far as a number of our senior players and key drivers didn't give a yelp in a very important game,( Jamar, Green and Silvia for starters) the Bulldogs had done their homework very well on us and kept the game close and when it became evident we were playing the game on the Bulldogs terms, I will agree we had no answers or seemingly no alternative plan.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

You keep pushing this.

Essendon won because two of their coaches knew the Geelong side inside out, knew where they were vulnerable, and exploited it beautifully. They planned and prepared and gave the players something to play for. It's not that they just had a positive attitude - that's Oprah, not AFL!

We lose because nothing changes. We don't learn from our previous losses. We don't learn what to do when a side (any side) nullifies our strengths, and we don't learn what to do when they exploit our weaknesses. We all get sucked in to blaming the players' attitude.

At least we had a crack on Friday. We just found that the harder we tried, the worse it got. We literally had no answers.

And that's the coaching staff. Not just Bailey - we have nobody in our current coaching staff who has any tactical or strategic capacity whatsoever. If that doesn't change, nothing will change.

Good point on the Bumbers. One thing i'd like to add though. They also brought a massive 'attack on the ball, win the clearance and play on at all costs' attitude which appeared to catch the Cats napping a little in the 2nd half of the first quarter and the 2nd. They played the game as if it was their grand final. And it worked in their favour. I only wish we could bring that attitude more often. Extra physical maturity/experience will see this happen i hope.

Not sure about the whatsoever comment. I'd find it hard to believe that no one has talent within the FD. Do we feel this way when we smash our opponents? The FD must be doing something right in these games surely.

However, there are positional moves/match ups that worry me. I guess that can be said about any coach post match. The old hindsight is a wonderful thing theory. But a few from Friday night....

Our best/most dangerous goal kicking forward in Green, played through the middle and even down back for much of the game and IMO wasted. Surely Sylvia should have played or been switched into this role when things started going awry for us from about half way through the first quarter. Instead Sylvia played approx 70/30 forward/guts. Surely leave Green (our most potent/experienced forward) up forward for most of the match to provide a lead/hit up/bail out target and also put a bit more pressure on his opponent i50.

Playing AJ in the forward line. In fact i wouldn't have played him at all on this ground unless i was trialing him off the bench through the middle in short spurts and occasionaly pushing forward. As much as i'm not a big Dunny brush fan atm, i think he has an AFL size bod and could at least provide a target and a little more pressure i50 that AJ seems to only bring on the downhill slide or when the moment takes him. And no, he wasn't alone on Friday eve i realise. On the bigger grounds such as the G, AJ mostly up forward but a good percentage in the middle as well. Sometimes the best way of learning 'how to' is to watch. A mentor to sit alongside him while watching/learning would be handy i think.

Our i50 pressure/tackling on Friday evening was woeful and a big reason why we lost so badly. Need to find more players who are committed/capable of bringing this week in week out or at least make it a non negotiable for anyone who wishes to maintain there place for more than a few weeks.

Morton selected? Not suited to this ground and it's tight confines. Not ready or up to AFL standard yet, period. Evans/Bartram in for Morton at least on this ground. And no i don't think Bartram is a long term answer either. But he loves a contest and can get to one. Morton too slow.

Bennell selected? Don't need outside runners like Morton and Bennell at Shi!yhad. Out for Maric or someone else, someone who loves an inside stoush and hard ball clearance! Unfortunately Tappy wasn't ready this time around so i'm not sure who we could have brought in at this point. Others may have a better idea for last Friday's match.

Finally, we watched a mediocre but more experienced/physically mature opposition get on top (again), yet the FD continued the match with a predominantly "steady as she goes" strategy while the Scraggers proceeded to take over through the middle, attack the ball with more gusto and take the initiative (with the assistance of their wise coach at the helm and the inclusion of a few experienced campaigners).

It appears that we STILL lack 'option B' and 'C' when things aren't going well. One of these options surely has to be .... the ability to close down our opposition when the tide starts turning against us. Where we attempt to slow things down, maintain possession and minimise the damage, until we're able to reset at the end of a quarter.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

Our best/most dangerous goal kicking forward in Green, played through the middle and even down back for much of the game and IMO wasted. Surely Sylvia should have played or been switched into this role when things started going awry for us from about half way through the first quarter. Instead Sylvia played approx 70/30 forward/guts. Surely leave Green (our most potent/experienced forward) up forward for most of the match to provide a lead/hit up/bail out target and also put a bit more pressure on his opponent i50.

Playing AJ in the forward line. In fact i wouldn't have played him at all on this ground unless i was trialing him off the bench through the middle in short spurts and occasionaly pushing forward. As much as i'm not a big Dunny brush fan atm, i think he has an AFL size bod and could at least provide a target and a little more pressure i50 that AJ seems to only bring on the downhill slide or when the moment takes him. And no, he wasn't alone on Friday eve i realise. On the bigger grounds such as the G, AJ mostly up forward but a good percentage in the middle as well. Sometimes the best way of learning 'how to' is to watch. A mentor to sit alongside him while watching/learning would be handy i think.

I think the reason Green didn't play forward much was because he had Dale Morris on him, who was tearing him a new one. He is a hell of a defender and often punches well above his weight, so therefore covering Green was no problem for him. I can understand the FD wanting to drag other defenders such as Gilbee and Murphy back to goal, but unfortunately, either our delivery was crap, or they got good numbers back to help.

Edited July 3, 2011 by Jerry Lundergard

[Face Your Demons 175]

If Melbourne somehow make the eight then 9 of the needed 11 wins will have come from the bottom 5 teams. Not looking good.