The Tom Scully Saga

[Demon Dynasty 17,094]

Exactly. Some of the hand wringing on here is more disturbing than the uncertainty over Scully's contract.

Agree Rogue. This Scully only plays if he signs stupidity is the ultimate gun to the foot of list management. Its a really dumb concept with terrible possibly unintended consequences on the remainin playing group.

Sorry Rhino/RPFC but you're missing the point boys. It's about us getting our hands on a pretty nice prospect No.1 draft pick and potentially losing him a few years later, without any compensation. Thanks to the machinations and greediness of the AFL to expand the competition at all costs.

I think Davey and Sylvia were priority pick and rookie draft pick no. 3s at the time yes? And i would like to think we should expect reasonable compensation for both of them as well if they were to move on. In the end the massive conjecture re: Scully staying or going would be lessened somewhat as an issue generally, were we not likely to be shafted in the process and instead were likely to be duly compensated for him signing to a newly created club. Or alternatively, we had received a fair return on him on the field in terms of many years of service/output/performance (eg., Ablett's contribution to the Cats) as well as compensation.

Also, last time i looked, people are free to express their views on this site aren't they? What makes the two of you so sanctimonious on this issue?

People might be wrong, the might be right, they might be somewhere in between with their views. They should have a right to at least be heard. Who knows, along the way we might all learn a thing or two. I know i am. Some very good contributors on this site who add value and excellent views/feedback. Yeah i make mistakes too and i speak dribble sometimes no doubt. But along the way i'm learning from some of you. Including you and RPFC at times.

Cheers

B)

Edited June 16, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Guest Thomo]

Exactly right Rogue. We have a few uncontracted players at the moment. Do we say to them there not playing until they sign. What about the guys that want to sign and haven't been given a contract, do they say well im not playing until i get a contract?

I always found it strange clubs offer players contracts well before they end. He is contracted to the club until October, no reason to sign him until his last one expires! to many people being sucked in by the media here. AFL is loving it because it is promoting GWS. The media loves it because people are reading the stories and listening to there egos. Scully's manager is loving it because his price is rising. The only loser out of this is the MFC. Scully is piggy in the middle.

Best post in the thread.

[H_T 3,032]

Exactly right Rogue. We have a few uncontracted players at the moment. Do we say to them there not playing until they sign. What about the guys that want to sign and haven't been given a contract, do they say well im not playing until i get a contract?

I always found it strange clubs offer players contracts well before they end. He is contracted to the club until October, no reason to sign him until his last one expires! to many people being sucked in by the media here. AFL is loving it because it is promoting GWS. The media loves it because people are reading the stories and listening to there egos. Scully's manager is loving it because his price is rising. The only loser out of this is the MFC. Scully is piggy in the middle.

The GWS list manager is loving it even more. The Puppeteer ?

[Red and Blue Bloke 20]

I thought the raising of past number 1 picks moving on soon after was very interesting.

I reckon that while Scully is as an exciting player I have seen come into the club in a long time, if he was to go, pick 2 aqnd 17 would soften the blow significantly.

That said, Freo made an absolute mess of it when we gave them that for Jeff White, who was a fabulous player for us whose last few years of his career was ruined by a rule change.

Thoughts?

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Should Sylvia be allowed to play if he's been offered a contract and hasn't signed it?

Should we have sent Davey to wallow in the VFL for all of last year if he'd been offered a contract some time during the season?

etc.

Thanks for stating clearly what I was hinting at earlier in the thread. At some point I suggested that the only thing that has changed since his press conference was the fact that he's played a game of footy. Now he's played two. Take away the Demonland hysteria and media speculation and he is in exactly the same contract position as Sylvia this year and Watts last year. I'm growing increasingly confident that he'll stay.

[hardtack 10,423]

My thoughts are:

FFS, why start yet another Scully thread????? It offers nothing new as there has already been plenty of discussion about compensatory picks.

[Eth 4]

My thoughts are:

FFS, why start yet another Scully thread????? It offers nothing new as there has already been plenty of discussion about compensatory picks.

True.

Also, past draft picks can't be compared to Scully. White left because he wanted to come back to Melbourne. Scully, if he is leaving, is chasing money. Two different situations.

[Red and Blue Bloke 20]

I thought I raised a number of issues; number 1s moving, trade deals, Jeff White, Vlad's statements, compensation picks, Freo making a mess of the deal, etc.

I guess it could be seen as a Scully thread if the mindset of the reader was a certain way.

[PeterJames 46]

Who did Freo draft with them? Also what did we get for the Wiz?

[Jordie_tackles 354]

True.

Also, past draft picks can't be compared to Scully. White left because he wanted to come back to Melbourne. Scully, if he is leaving, is chasing money. Two different situations.

Both still number one picks, White is a precedent for what a number 1 pick can attract on the open market, just a few years out from the draft...

[Pipefitter 2,139]

Demitrious comments are so invalid. Yes other top draftees have left early but as far as the stats go they were heavily compensated which we wont be.

[hardtack 10,423]

I thought I raised a number of issues; number 1s moving, trade deals, Jeff White, Vlad's statements, compensation picks, Freo making a mess of the deal, etc.

I guess it could be seen as a Scully thread if the mindset of the reader was a certain way.

Maybe it had something to do with the central theme of the initial post?: "I reckon that while Scully is as an exciting player I have seen come into the club in a long time, if he was to go, pick 2 aqnd 17 would soften the blow significantly."

[Rogue 585]

What about the guys that want to sign and haven't been given a contract, do they say well im not playing until i get a contract?

Haha, absolutely right.

Sorry Rhino/RPFC but you're missing the point boys. It's about us getting our hands on a pretty nice prospect No.1 draft pick and potentially losing him a few years later, without any compensation. Thanks to the machinations and greediness of the AFL to expand the competition at all costs.

Blame the Clubs - they agreed to the compensation formula. I still can't figure out why, because it was a dog of a deal. It seems none of them considered the impact on their own lists until one of their big names looked like going (ie. Geelong and Ablett).

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Sorry Rhino/RPFC but you're missing the point boys. It's about us getting our hands on a pretty nice prospect No.1 draft pick and potentially losing him a few years later, without any compensation. Thanks to the machinations and greediness of the AFL to expand the competition at all costs.

I think Davey and Sylvia were priority pick and rookie draft pick no. 3s at the time yes? And i would like to think we should expect reasonable compensation for both of them as well if they were to move on.

Where they were chosen originally is irrelevant to the fact that there is a mechanism that would "compensate" the losing Club. Clearly Scully has yet to reach his potential and the compensation may not accommodate the future value of him like an established player in Ablett

The issue was being highlighted was that saying to a currently contracted player than you cant play until you sign the contract for next season has implications for Scully as it does for all other players. And applying just to Scully when he and his management have already said that he would wait until year end is a perfect way to encourage him to go North (if he has not signed already) and sends a message to other players and their managers as to how MFC may conduct future matters. Not a sensible option.

Also, last time i looked, people are free to express their views on this site aren't they? What makes the two of you so sanctimonious on this issue?

People might be wrong, the might be right, they might be somewhere in between with their views. They should have a right to at least be heard. Who knows, along the way we might all learn a thing or two. I know i am. Some very good contributors on this site who add value and excellent views/feedback. Yeah i make mistakes too and i speak dribble sometimes no doubt. But along the way i'm learning from some of you. Including you and RPFC at times.

Well done. In highlight my opinion you might be guilty of double standards. I am not sure why feel guilty of hand wringing but so be it. And where have people been denied the right of comment?? If they dont want their comments evaluated on this forum by others then they should get a blog and turn the reply box to off. But FWIW, there has been absolute rubbish on this thread as there has been on some of the other ad nauseam threads on Scully. But remember its just my opinion and there are some contributors that are very good and provide thoughtful insightful views. But like a number of threads they are in chronic short supply.

Also, why do need to post in Comic Sans font? IMO it adds little to the site and is unnecessary (Chill...I started with IMO! B) )

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Blame the Clubs - they agreed to the compensation formula. I still can't figure out why, because it was a dog of a deal. It seems none of them considered the impact on their own lists until one of their big names looked like going (ie. Geelong and Ablett).

Spot on Rogue. Its a stinker. And MFC are on the wrong side of it. Who represented MFC in those discussions? Schwab? Clearly a young list like ours would have been fertile picking for GC/GWS.

[Samsara 65]

Whoever represented Melbourne in agreeing to these concessions should be shot (metaphorically). Complete imbecile.

[M_9 1,986]

Who did Freo draft with them? Also what did we get for the Wiz?

Freo on-traded their first two picks (2 and 5) for Adrian Fletcher and Chris Bond. Geelong used pick 2 to secure Brad Ottens and Brisbane got Luke Power with pick 5.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Schwab was on the committee that determined the rules.

Surely it wasnt unanimous though? I doubt we'll ever know.

Gubby Allen was also on that committee as Brisbane's representative - reckon he already had an inkling he'd be going to GWS?

I wouldn't trust that bloke as far as I could throw him.

[QueenC 74]

wake me up when it ends....

It'll only end when we know !!!

Edited June 16, 2011 by QueenC

[M_9 1,986]

We effectively got Clint Bizzell for the Wiz

[rpfc 28,052]

Sorry Rhino/RPFC but you're missing the point boys. It's about us getting our hands on a pretty nice prospect No.1 draft pick and potentially losing him a few years later, without any compensation. Thanks to the machinations and greediness of the AFL to expand the competition at all costs.

I think Davey and Sylvia were priority pick and rookie draft pick no. 3s at the time yes? And i would like to think we should expect reasonable compensation for both of them as well if they were to move on. In the end the massive conjecture re: Scully staying or going would be lessened somewhat as an issue generally, were we not likely to be shafted in the process and instead were likely to be duly compensated for him signing to a newly created club. Or alternatively, we had received a fair return on him on the field in terms of many years of service/output/performance (eg., Ablett's contribution to the Cats) as well as compensation.

Also, last time i looked, people are free to express their views on this site aren't they? What makes the two of you so sanctimonious on this issue?

People might be wrong, the might be right, they might be somewhere in between with their views. They should have a right to at least be heard. Who knows, along the way we might all learn a thing or two. I know i am. Some very good contributors on this site who add value and excellent views/feedback. Yeah i make mistakes too and i speak dribble sometimes no doubt. But along the way i'm learning from some of you. Including you and RPFC at times.

Cheers

B)

People can think what they like RN. And they can post what they like.

But don't call me self-righteous for critiquing their opinions.

It's a forum.

And I don't think I have been that bad in this thread - I haven't really touched on the fairness of losing Scully, only the belief that he has gone and the desired actions of a few if he has gone.

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Richmond drafted Ottens with pick 2...

[Tony Tea 2,805]

Blame the Clubs - they agreed to the compensation formula. I still can't figure out why, because it was a dog of a deal. It seems none of them considered the impact on their own lists until one of their big names looked like going (ie. Geelong and Ablett).

I find it almost impossible to believe all the representatives at all the clubs were unable to predict the current situation.

Did the AFL put one over the clubs? Did the AFL reveal all the machinations? The October/November contact window certainly came as a surprise to many of the clubs. Did the AFL just make the clubs an offer too good to refuse? There is every chance clubs knew they would be hit for players, but if the AFL guaranteed their futures they would have been likely to buy the deal.

What if Schwab, for instance, had suggested a moratorium of three years for new players but the AFL had countered that they would look after all the clubs in perpetuity?

It is perfectly conceivable the AFL said "don't worry about the details, we've got you backed forever".

[Born to Run 204]

My thoughts are:

FFS, why start yet another Scully thread????? It offers nothing new as there has already been plenty of discussion about compensatory picks.

I think why it was started was because of what Demitriou said yesterday about not caring if Scully went to Western Sydney and that no one wrote about the nature of Jeff White's arrival at Melbourne after only 3 years at Freo.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/andrew-demetriou-would-have-no-qualms-with-melbourne-demons-tom-scully-moving-to-greater-western-sydney/story-e6frf33l-1226075862427

I think what is most concerning is what Melbourne would get in return if Scully did exit. If we were going to get picks 2 and 18 (as Freo did for White) then I think we could all probably accept that (it would hurt a lot, but not as much as the proposed compensation).

I think that the majority of supporters are absolutely sh*t scared that he might leave for (say) pick 17 which is considerably below any reasonable valuation of his talents.

If the compensation was fairer, I think that there would be far less attention to this whole issue of GWS and GC getting players from other clubs.

I suppose all the clubs that accepted the concessions probably thought the AFL compensation formula would be a little closer to market value than it has turned out to be.

[nutbean 8,838]

The thing that really upsets me about Vlad is the obvious which he chooses to conveniently overlook every time this discussion comes up.

If we lost TS to Richmond or Collingwood at the end of the year through them offering him something he wants more - be it money or opportunity or the perception that their club is better then I would be upset BUT we are on a level playing field as far as cap goes with these clubs. In the end we havent worked hard enough to keep him. As to the Jeff White situation ( which was a "go home" story) - Freo and MFC were competing with the same total amount of money in their pocket to spend.

With GWS and GC17 they are turning up to an auction to buy a house with AFL approval allowing them to spend an inordinate amount than any of the other clubs can spend. In pure dollar terms the AFL has given the new clubs a huge competitive advantage.

And to those who suggested before that GC17 was a lifestyle choice - whilst I agree it has more appeal than GWS and the beaches do sound nice is anyone truly suggesting that if all the players they contracted were offered the same money by their former clubs they would have still gone to GC17 because of the lifestyle ?? spare me.