Paul Roos view on Demon's gameplan

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

I wouldn't rate Malthouse either. Going by our results against his mob last year he's no better than Bailey.

[H_T 3,047]

He is spot on we do have a one of a kind game plan at present.

I have been complaining about it for some time.

I expect the "experts" will howl me down shortly

but I do not like it and don't think it will take us very far.

On top of that it is not good to watch IMO!

So you didn't like last years 73 point demolition of Sydney, or the close encounters with Collingwood ?

I'm not disagreeing with what Paul Roos said, but could he have an ulterior motive in talking down our game plan, development and coaching staff?

What, like applying for the Melbourne coaching position if available ?

Maybe so, but he is in a good position to analyse and present the facts, which is what he is payed to do, and did well on this occasion...

He does get payed to analyse, but I'm not so sure he has done it "well" on this occassion. Has he taken all considered into account ? ie. Namely the list, who is missing, etc, etc... .

Roos was right in saying there are many sides following Collingwood's gameplan now, or that seems to be the fashion. He's right in saying we have something a little different. We've tinkered somewhat. But has he analysed our method and taken into account that with more experience (games together), a strengthened midfield, and with a potent forward line on the increase, and a better drilled understanding of where every player has to be - how things will be in 2-3-4 years time ? I think not.

It's ok to look at past results and the Hawthorn 3rd quarter where we struggled to get through Hawthorn, but that had much to do with a lack of workrate on our behalf to counterract Hawthorn's press and good pressure. But surely Roos' knowledge of building a side and a bit of foresight, should be part of that analysis.

[Seinfeld 40]

Todd Viney clearly said a few weeks back that when we are in OUR premiership window then more time and emphasis will be placed/spent on our game plans.

We are clearly NOT in our premiership window.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Paul Roos in my view is proving to be a breath of fresh air with his weekly appearance on "on the couch" on Foxtel.

He has some interesting observations about the Demons. Last Monday in the context of discussing with Gerard Heally and Mike Sheahan which clubs are in the most trouble so far in the season, both Heally and Sheahan nominated St. Kilda; Roos went for Melbourne. He said something like "we have all identified them as the team of the future, but they are just not cutting it, and don't look like doing so with their current set up". He was particularly critical of the gameplan. Ended up by saying: "Melbourne have a different gameplan to everywhere other club. Most clubs are pursuing the Collingwood style press into the forward line, but Melbourne seem happy to apply a more traditional setup and then press up at half back and drive back into attack with quick runners. It remains to be seen whether it works in the long run but it is different to everyone else" At least that was my and my lawyer son's understanding of what he said

He then went on to express serious doubt about whether the Melbourne coaching staff were getting the most out of the young list. Similar sentiments were expressed by the panel on AFL 360 the next day.

What does everyone else think. Do we have a different gameplan to everyone else which is doomed to failure, or are we smarter than everyone else and will win out in the end? Are our coaching staff underperforming in not getting the most out of our list and dooming us to failure through a flawed setup?

We're still developing, bringing in new young kids so IMO the gameplan will be fluid at the moment as the the rules change will also change the nature of the zones and floods.

Todd Viney stated the biggest focus will be on tutoring the newbies this year as they become accustomed to afl footy and their teammates. We need to get bigger physically, and this has a huge bearing with the style of game their capable of playing.

I think Bailey certainly has this year to show he's got it, and maybe next as well. I feel OK with bails.

But If we did go to a change of coach in the next 2 seasons,, I would rather Roos, than a malthouse.

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Todd Viney clearly said a few weeks back that when we are in OUR premiership window then more time and emphasis will be placed/spent on our game plans.

We are clearly NOT in our premiership window.

Precisely. Plus we've only played a 3-4 bad quarters this year. Let the season play out a bit FFS...

[Hannabal 4]

The best drilled sides employ full presses in an attempt to keep the ball in their forward 50. We don't employ an 18 man zone and nor do we adopt a full press. We try and penetrate the press with precise kicking off half back either through the corridor or a switch of play, but unfortunately our reliance on precision footskills means that we get hurt on the transition through turnovers. Our inability to penetrate well organised sides leads to a lack of inside 50's. We're not well drilled and we lose our structure too easily. Opposition sides revert to 'man on man' footy when they're not in possession. We don't play nearly enough 'man on man' footy when the opposition have the ball.

I'm underwhelmed by Bailey's game plan and believe that he's been caught off guard during the off season. In an article 3 weeks ago Todd Viney says, "We’re still a developing team and we’re not in the premiership window yet; if we were an older team and in the premiership window, greater time would be spent on tactics and game-plan." No-one would have considered Essendon to be in premiership mode, but unlike Bailey, Hird decided to have the best drilled side he could. Essendon adopt a full press and make it exceedingly difficult for the opposition to get the ball out of their back half. All of their player know the structures and work in unison. Simple, but effective drills have them playing with certainty and confidence. Confidence has led to a hunger and a fierce attack on the footy.

So those on this thread lauding our "different style" perhaps need to think again. We've simply been caught off guard and haven't given tactics, structure and gameplan the time it deserved.

Thanks Dean.

[old dee 23,791]

I recall DB saying (maybe a year ago) that they want the game plan to be a step ahead of the competition rather than keeping pase. But whether the game plan is ultametly successful is risky b/c there is a lag period were it often looks ordinary (ie. Gellong)

Our game plan must have worked pretty well last year when we played Collingwood.

I generrally like Roo's observations and you would have to agree that we haven't looked right this year so far, but maybe its a reflection on were we are now rather than an ultimate prediction for the future.

Winter Dan I am sorry to keep labouring this but we did not win either game!

[Radar Detector 1,347]

So far this year we have lost one game to a likely top four team. Sheesh.

We've played rubbish in all three games and still come away with premiership points from two of them. if we win on the weekend, we will need to win 6 of our last 18 to equal last year's result. That's one win from every three matches for the rest of the year.

If we'd been playing badly in any of the past three seasons we'd have been 0-3 right now. The group is improving.

Let's give a few weeks for the likes of Frawley, Morton, Aussie, Petterd et al who have had interrupted lead-ins regain some match fitness. Let's wait until we have Jordie back in the midfield rotation to help stop us getting smashed at the clearances (which incidentally has been the only glaring weakness to my mind all year so far).

Let's hold off the ritual burning at the stake until we get a bit more hard evidence. We are not Richmond.

[old dee 23,791]

Todd Viney clearly said a few weeks back that when we are in OUR premiership window then more time and emphasis will be placed/spent on our game plans.

We are clearly NOT in our premiership window.

Kojak Have we found the house yet?

[Tricky 341]

So you didn't like last years 73 point demolition of Sydney, or the close encounters with Collingwood ?

What, like applying for the Melbourne coaching position if available ?

He does get payed to analyse, but I'm not so sure he has done it "well" on this occassion. Has he taken all considered into account ? ie. Namely the list, who is missing, etc, etc... .

Roos was right in saying there are many sides following Collingwood's gameplan now, or that seems to be the fashion. He's right in saying we have something a little different. We've tinkered somewhat. But has he analysed our method and taken into account that with more experience (games together), a strengthened midfield, and with a potent forward line on the increase, and a better drilled understanding of where every player has to be - how things will be in 2-3-4 years time ? I think not.

It's ok to look at past results and the Hawthorn 3rd quarter where we struggled to get through Hawthorn, but that had much to do with a lack of workrate on our behalf to counterract Hawthorn's press and good pressure. But surely Roos' knowledge of building a side and a bit of foresight, should be part of that analysis.

FWIW his closing comment was that time will tell - he can only "analyse" based on current facts - anything else would be speculation.

[Sideshow Bob 2,386]

Todd Viney clearly said a few weeks back that when we are in OUR premiership window then more time and emphasis will be placed/spent on our game plans.

We are clearly NOT in our premiership window.

correct

He also said that at present we are trying to teach each of our young players the basics of how to play, which in itself leads to somewhat of a game plan. They are currently attempting to lay the foundation for a serious tilt in 2013/14. No need to get any knickers in any knots about us not doing whatever is curently in vogue (ie forward press/ full ground press) as this will not be what wins the premiership in 3 years time.

We may have moved only just from 'base camp' however there still is a bloody big mountain to climb!! Our players will be physically ready for a tilt in 2-3 years then and only then is the need to have a premiership winnign game plan in place. Until then our players physically can not cope with what is required. Young Jack Watts is the prime example - He will have a much, much bigger frame and should be a physical force when our window opens. Until then DB's mantra of 'being competitive' will do. No change of coaching staff will change this fact. Move on people

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

Hey roos...how much did we smash the swans by last year? weren't u the coach? Bailey delivered you your biggest loss for your career from memory.

Yep. It seemed to work pretty well that day. It didn't look that bad against last years premiers last year either.

[old55 23,576]

No-one would have considered Essendon to be in premiership mode, but unlike Bailey, Hird decided to have the best drilled side he could. Essendon adopt a full press and make it exceedingly difficult for the opposition to get the ball out of their back half. All of their player know the structures and work in unison. Simple, but effective drills have them playing with certainty and confidence.

I don't know if Bailey's game plan will be successful but Malthouse has said it takes 2-3 years working on a plan to get it nailed. It doesn't surprise me at all that we're struggling with it. We've recruited good contested ball winners, good kicks with good endurance which complement our style. I don't think those attributes are going out of fashion. But the players have to work very hard to make it work and execute well when fatigued - I'm not sure that our players understand or are capable yet of the level of intensity required to make it work.

As posted, I'm glad we're not copying the current vogue - that was TGR's greatest criticism of ND. We're trying to play a style to beat it, just like Collingwood developed a game style to beat Geelong. Essendon has a much more mature list than us. I thought they were really great against us in that NAB Cup game. Do you think that they're going to win a flag playing that way? Remember that's all that matters.

[Axis of Bob 11,812]

Hannabal: For someone who constant states how he only ever cares about a premiership, you certainly seem to care a disproportional amount about the minutia of our game plan in 2011.

Do you think the 2014 flag will be won with the same gameplan that Collingwood uses now?

I remember way back in early 2008 when Bailey was asked if he had a gameplan to beat Geelong. He was that it didn't matter about beating Geelong's plan, it was about beating Hawthorn's because the game was evolving.

Remember the crap that Malthouse used to get about his gameplan? The supporters hated it because they constantly went around the boundary and never attacked through the corridor like all the other teams. They wanted him sacked and it resulted in the Buckley coach transition. Malthouse resisted the temptation to play Thomspn's Geelong plan and Clarkson's Hawthorn plan, but instead devised a way to defeat it and picked players to suit that style.

Different doesn't necessarily mean bad.

[Axis of Bob 11,812]

Snap.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Every team has the game plan that will win them a premiership, just ask them. The team that executes it to the enth degree are the ones that generally come our premiers.

As a few have mentioned, we saw what we are capable of when we execute it for an entire match against the Swans last year. Imagine when our boys are a bit older, stronger, etc so that they can execute it week after week after week. I'd imagine that our plan would be the one that everyone wants to play.

Those that disagree, I hope you didn't sing the song after we flogged Sydney, because that my friends is the game plan that we will be playing in the next couple of years. So if you are sitting here critical about how we aren't acting like sheep and following our opposition, this thread has the potential to haunt you in years to come.

FWIW - wasn't it last year when the On The Couch experts were complimenting us on the way we played? They brought up that chart comparing us to the dominant Geelong style (up the guts), then the dominant Colling wood style (around the boundary), and said how we have combined both styles and it's a good one.

[Striker475 696]

Honestly, I don't mind the way we play. We can be absolutely scintillating to watch, and we seem to be able to break the zone far more effectively than a lot of other clubs simply because the players are drilled to go for the quick kick rather than the handball. The only two areas of our game that need to be seriously strengthened are the kick-ins at both end - the Hawthorn game showed us that.

After that it's just practice, practice, practice. And the FD have said that it's a lesser priority.

[H_T 3,047]

Has it ever occurred to anyone on the back of Todd Viney's comments re: game plan and tactics that the FD doesn't want to put all the cards on the table just yet during the development phase or "in the game" phase ?

[Hannabal 4]

I don't know if Bailey's game plan will be successful but Malthouse has said it takes 2-3 years working on a plan to get it nailed. It doesn't surprise me at all that we're struggling with it. We've recruited good contested ball winners, good kicks with good endurance which complement our style. I don't think those attributes are going out of fashion. But the players have to work very hard to make it work and execute well when fatigued - I'm not sure that our players understand or are capable yet of the level of intensity required to make it work.

As posted, I'm glad we're not copying the current vogue - that was TGR's greatest criticism of ND. We're trying to play a style to beat it, just like Collingwood developed a game style to beat Geelong. Essendon has a much more mature list than us. I thought they were really great against us in that NAB Cup game. Do you think that they're going to win a flag playing that way? Remember that's all that matters.

What game plan ?

Old, you and other long time posters have a tendency to immediately want to support the club and coach in everything. I'll support the club too, but I'll also question the club.

Bailey doesn't give me any confidence whatsoever that he knows how to develop a plan that will win a flag. Viney admitted that they haven't spent much time on game plans, but instead player development. So in Bailey's 4th year there's not been a concentration on a gameplan ? That's laughable. Besides, what Bailey is (possibly) developing in 2011 may be off the pace by 2014. Look how much the game has already changed this year from last. How about relying on some fundamentals that will help you remain competitive, get the ball into your forward 50 and allow you to dominate sides like Brisbane ? Btw, Brisbane nearly won the game because they were better drilled and organised that us.

I've always been an advocate of tough and uncompromised 'man on man' footy. Gameplans will always vary around those parameters, but they are essential traits in finals footy and I don't see that our players are well drilled in those areas.

We play soft unaccountable footy. Hardly a recipe for a flag.

Continue the cheerleading ...

[H_T 3,047]

We've drawn against Sydney, having come from behind. We've been in front of the Hawks at half-time by 19 points - scribes were sharpening their pencils and editors were choosing headlines for Clarko's demise, and we've come back and beaten a well drilled Brisbane in Round 3. Yet, anyone would think the world is ending !

The MFCSS is rubbing off on some.

[Kento80 83]

All the talk about our plan including flooding the backline and clearing quickly to no forwards, is just bloody stupid IMO. It goes to show we don't actually have a proper, well drilled gameplan, because if we did we wouldn't be clearing to no forwards. We are reactive and flood the backline to avoid scores against us. Simple. This is not a plan it is damage limitation.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Has it ever occurred to anyone on the back of Todd Viney's comments re: game plan and tactics that the FD doesn't want to put all the cards on the table just yet during the development phase or "in the game" phase ?

Agreed. It's way too soon to be Over Concerned with who's got the latest and brightest shiny new chess board. In our development stage we need to learn many ways of setting up, and how to unravel them.

We have to learn the basics first and to execute our disposal skills under pressure, and to learn about one anothers stengths etc, to understand the needs of each teammate. We are at the basic level of still bringing in the kids that will form the frame of our future team.

People are getting impatient thinking that we've done the biggest part of our List rebuild, that is all there is, and now we start winning by copying others ways.

It s not like that.

[Red Sox 2]

Paul Roos still talks about the Swans in 1st person - 'we', 'us'. He doesn't objectify much.

Easy to kick a club after a young list got belted by Hawthorn's big bodies.

Roos' game plan was to have a final score line of 3 23 to 2 17 with 32 players around the ball.

Sorry, I can't stand him.

Did you actually watch anything or commenting because you don't like him? Very dismissive what you have written here and Paul Roos is much much better than that.

He never kicked anybody.

He spoke well and seems to be the small start of a chorus of commentators starting to make comment on the coaching/plans we have in place.

Maybe he is angling to take over Bails job and getting it out there.

[satyricon 267]

What game plan ?

Old, you and other long time posters have a tendency to immediately want to support the club and coach in everything. I'll support the club too, but I'll also question the club.

Bailey doesn't give me any confidence whatsoever that he knows how to develop a plan that will win a flag. Viney admitted that they haven't spent much time on game plans, but instead player development. So in Bailey's 4th year there's not been a concentration on a gameplan ? That's laughable. Besides, what Bailey is (possibly) developing in 2011 may be off the pace by 2014. Look how much the game has already changed this year from last. How about relying on some fundamentals that will help you remain competitive, get the ball into your forward 50 and allow you to dominate sides like Brisbane ? Btw, Brisbane nearly won the game because they were better drilled and organised that us.

I've always been an advocate of tough and uncompromised 'man on man' footy. Gameplans will always vary around those parameters, but they are essential traits in finals footy and I don't see that our players are well drilled in those areas.

We play soft unaccountable footy. Hardly a recipe for a flag.

Continue the cheerleading ...

It is not cheerleading, but glass half full rather than half empty, personally I have been watching football for over 30 years, and the basic thing still applies, kick the ball through the big sticks to win.

But we have progressed where if Dane Swann happens to fart out on the field, the decibels, velocity, direction and whiffieness are captured by the surround sensors and analysed and dissected thoroughly on the forty two thousand tv programs, newspaper columns, net forums, blog sites, twitter accounts etc dedicated to footy each week.

As long as we move the ball forward and kick goals and stop the opposition doing it, I don't care if Bailey borrows Einsteins Theory Of Relativity and turns it into a game plan......

I watch the game, not analyse it, we are just too inconsistent at the moment, but we will get there.....that is the plan

Edited April 14, 2011 by satyricon

[The Chazz 4,077]

Did you actually watch anything or commenting because you don't like him? Very dismissive what you have written here and Paul Roos is much much better than that.

He never kicked anybody.

He spoke well and seems to be the small start of a chorus of commentators starting to make comment on the coaching/plans we have in place.

Maybe he is angling to take over Bails job and getting it out there.

Maybe he reads Demonland, and listens to everyone bitching about our game plan, so he makes a public statement about how our game plan is crud, and that just sparks up MFC supporters, and that makes them want to sack Bailey, and then we should chase Malthouse, blah, blah, blah, blah.