... and then there were four ...

[Demonator 93]

This whole subject seems to have slipped into a surreality. Just when I thought thi sclub was serious about reform, serious about throwing out the old ways of inadequacy and mediocroty they serve up this old dish !!

Green cant lead. .. he may be a professional about footy but hasnt a clue about effective team leadership...evidence ? weve seen none and hes had plenty of chance to do so.

Davey. I used to really rate this guy but so far off the boil now. Would smack of some form of tokenism to appoint him now as hes not only shown no capacity to captain hes actually shown us just how he cant handle the next level of stres on the field

Beamer.. ..always strikes me as having the right gumg ho idea and yet seems more suited to a platoon sgts type role more than the general's. Seems to lack the more encomassing poise ( nice pick by another )

Grimes.. who knows.. gotta be on the park week in week out surely...Hasnt happened to date so this would need to be a monty youd think before you could seriuously consider him.

Very surprised Trengove not mentioned in despatches as has been one of the very few to actually exhibit the ability to lead.

Maybe Im alone here but feel rather disappointed by the club in theyve failed to move on in this regard...just shullfling deckchairs again ...Thought this had been relegated to the bin. Apparently not.

I agree with you totally. But don't be disappointed just yet.....I don't think Mark Neeld likes the word 'mediocrity!'

[rpfc 27,617]

Maybe Im alone here but feel rather disappointed by the club in theyve failed to move on in this regard...just shullfling deckchairs again ...Thought this had been relegated to the bin. Apparently not.

This thread illustrates the shuffling of this time last year...

So let's wait before judgement is brought.

[felixdacat 459]

This whole subject seems to have slipped into a surreality. Just when I thought thi sclub was serious about reform, serious about throwing out the old ways of inadequacy and mediocroty they serve up this old dish !!

Green cant lead. .. he may be a professional about footy but hasnt a clue about effective team leadership...evidence ? weve seen none and hes had plenty of chance to do so.

Davey. I used to really rate this guy but so far off the boil now. Would smack of some form of tokenism to appoint him now as hes not only shown no capacity to captain hes actually shown us just how he cant handle the next level of stres on the field

Beamer.. ..always strikes me as having the right gumg ho idea and yet seems more suited to a platoon sgts type role more than the general's. Seems to lack the more encomassing poise ( nice pick by another )

Grimes.. who knows.. gotta be on the park week in week out surely...Hasnt happened to date so this would need to be a monty youd think before you could seriuously consider him.

Very surprised Trengove not mentioned in despatches as has been one of the very few to actually exhibit the ability to lead.

Maybe Im alone here but feel rather disappointed by the club in theyve failed to move on in this regard...just shullfling deckchairs again ...Thought this had been relegated to the bin. Apparently not.

That's because the article is from Last Pre season and this is in no way the current choices for captain (or for that fact the only 4 choices MFC have) I would think that Neeld would have the whole team's names in his list as he is only starting to get to know them and he will whittle them down as you get closer to March.

[H_T 2,941]

Agree 100% - there's no perfect Captain choice this time around.

Valid this time around too ?

I can't help but think about 186 when Moloney and Green are mentioned. Apologies for bringing it up, but it can't be helped.

[daisycutter 28,670]

I can't help but think about 186 when Moloney and Green are mentioned. Apologies for bringing it up, but it can't be helped.

That's a bit unfair ht. If we are continually going to refer back to 186 then everyone will be tarnished and we will never move forward

It may have been an aberration, a monumental low-point......but it should not be used as a yardstick

[Kento80 83]

Valid this time around too ?

I can't help but think about 186 when Moloney and Green are mentioned. Apologies for bringing it up, but it can't be helped.

True for Green, but surely Moloney can escape some criticism due to his illness/injury (?? I can't remember which as I've tried to block it all from my memory). Granted he shouldn't have even taken the field, and can cop a bit for that, but I think it is fair to say that he shouldn't be dragged down by that number as much as others.

For what it's worth, reading through the list of characteristic on Robbie57's post above, the only player that comes close to ticking all the boxes is Trenners. Actually, Grimes is probably a better candidate, but his inability to stay on the park is a fair dinkum concern imo. Beamer is, as others have said, more of an inspiring brute than a captain, Col has obvious issues and reasons to keep him out, Jonesy is getting real close, but probably needs to develop a little more, Russian could be a possibility, I must admit I've really no idea on him, Davey has shown this year that his confidence is nowhere near the levels required to be captain, Jordie McKenzie has thrown his hat into the ring for the LG through his consistent performance, and Chip would have to be getting close too as he is one who we can rely on pretty much week in week out to bring his game with him. There may be the odd smokey who us on the outside overlook, but out of that list I would expect the LG to include Trenners, Moloney, Jones, Chip, Grimes and McKenzie, and I know it would be a bold move, but try as I might I cannot see a better candidate for the job than Trenners. Consistent performer, polished public speaker, well behaved, committed to the cause, gets vocal on field and is mature beyond his years. He may still have areas he needs to improve, but so does every candidate we have.

[H_T 2,941]

That's a bit unfair ht. If we are continually going to refer back to 186 then everyone will be tarnished and we will never move forward

It may have been an aberration, a monumental low-point......but it should not be used as a yardstick

Yeah, a bit dc, I'll acknowledge that. I'm not using it as a yardstick as such. It was a monumental low point. If we're looking forward, a reflection of the past must be recognised in my view and the need for change. We've seen sweeping changes within the FD and I feel that should continue in terms of onfield leadership.

[deeflog 679]

Aaron Davey isn't hard enough at contests to captain a hard nosed AFL side - which no doubt this team aspires to be.

It will be a mistake if he's made captain.

agreed 100%

[rpfc 27,617]

I said in this very thread that we have only 'adequate' candidates and I am sorry to say that it seems to be the case again.

I want a young Leadership Group to build a strong leader or two out of the promising kids we have.

I am all for the captain to come out of the entire group to be decided by Neeld and the FD, but the LG should look to the future, to fast track that future.

I know I repeat myself on this...

[Deeoldfart 7,809]

Its telling that we dont have enough options for Captain.

Neeld needs someone with all of the following qualities:

1. a consistent on field perfomer,
   
2. a consistent under pressure performer,
   
3. on field tactical awareness,
   
4. a good communicator on and off the field,
   
5. respect of his team mates,
   
6. intelligent with the ability to relay Neeld's message to the group,
   
7. capable of moments of on field inspiration.
   

So who ticks all those boxes?

Beamer doesn't. Chip comes close but may not be a natural communicator. Jones likewise but not yet an inspirational player. Grimes is yet to prove to be consistent due to injury. Russian? Trengove might be on the way there. Col, could be but keeps failing to live up to the promise. I can see why Green got the gig in the first place. In this situation I understand why Roos went for joint captains to get all the qualities needed and not to put the spotlight too much on one player. Maybe for a year or so we should do the same until there is a clear candidate.

Good post Robbie. It's an excellent set of criteria, and clearly there is no obvious standout for our next skipper. For some reason I have a feeling that Neeld won't go with the cautious joint captaincy option, and that he means exactly what he said about the LG currently being a 'blank canvas' in his eyes. For me the front runner is Trengove, but I'll be comfortable with whoever gets the nod in March. One thing that I really like is the apparent move away from the Leading Teams model for selecting the leaders. It sounds good in theory, but imo our playing group does not have the necessary maturity or experience to have a major role to play in the process.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I'm with Rpfc (gulp). It's time for a new era. Green isn't a leader and Moloney doesn't have the mind for it.

Step up Jack Trengove and Jack Watts. Born leaders and class players both of them.

Let them learn on the job and grow into the role. It won't matter if they make a few early mistakes.

Ahhhhhh ... it's good to be back.

[beelzebub 22,272]

That's because the article is from Last Pre season and this is in no way the current choices for captain (or for that fact the only 4 choices MFC have) I would think that Neeld would have the whole team's names in his list as he is only starting to get to know them and he will whittle them down as you get closer to March.

If so ..my bad for not readig the fine print..

Youd have to think its all clean sheets now.

Neeld's on record as suggesting its primarily the actions fo players that will define their place in the team. This is as it should be as its a game totally pivoted on action.

Again ..my bad for not paying attention .lol

its all got a bit boring ( footy ) of late.

that'll learn me !!

Back to renovating...thats more than enough fun.

Roll on 2012

[Radar Detector 1,339]

I would be disappointed to see Moloney as captain TBH. Despite winning the B&F this year, I found myself disappointed with him at times more than anyone else. Unlike Jones, for example, who obviously had a dip in every game, Moloney went missing in every single important game for the season then racked up 35+ against the minnows.

I agree with RPFC's view that we should develop a young leadership group. Jones or Trengove would be best if for no other reason than they do what they do week in and week out and obviously lead by example on the training track.

It's unfortunate that we don't have someone in the ~25yo age range banging the door down to lead.

Edited November 24, 2011 by Radar Detector

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Although the players do get a say. They then put their selections up to the FD. But Neeld has the final say.

Based on his thoughts about Davey having to shape up and play a role.

I don't think he is a Davey fan. It would be strange having a Captain Playing at Casey every week.

We have had so much upheaval. A completely new FD. I think Green offers a steadying influence.

Davey Grimes and Frawley in the Leadership group for mine.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Although the players do get a say. They then put their selections up to the FD. But Neeld has the final say.

Based on his thoughts about Davey having to shape up and play a role.

I don't think he is a Davey fan. It would be strange having a Captain Playing at Casey every week.

We have had so much upheaval. A completely new FD. I think Green offers a steadying influence.

Davey Grimes and Frawley in the Leadership group for mine.

Davey is borderline best 22 at the moment. I'd let him worry about earning his spot in the team before anything else.

[simma02 53]

You'd have more luck playing pick up sticks with your butt cheeks than Davey getting the Captaincy. In fact, it is very unlikely that he'll even be in the Leadership Group. Aaron has a lot of work to do this pre season, on a number of levels!

[DeeZee 6,811]

Got a feeling they are going to go young.

Grimes or Trengove if this is the case.

[Bossdog 2,002]

How can you consider Grimes???? The captain has to at least have a 100 games under his belt surely???

[The Jack of Grimes 0]

I would love to see Grimes and Trengove as co-captains for the year as I said in a previous post, and have them settle and fight for the full captaincy for 2013.

Davey, Green and Moloney are not leaders and their time is soon to be up as valuable as they will be for us in the next couple years. They need to play a mentoring role this season. We need to blood youth.

[hardtack 10,127]

How can you consider Grimes???? The captain has to at least have a 100 games under his belt surely???

+1

[rpfc 27,617]

How can you consider Grimes???? The captain has to at least have a 100 games under his belt surely???

Surely it's more important what is 'under their hats'?

[Bossdog 2,002]

Surely it's more important what is 'under their hats'?

Has to get his body right and then play some good games in a row for mine

[Sir Why You Little 34,771]

People on here are still calling for Frank Grimes to be captain in 2012. How? and why?

He hasn't done anything yet.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Captain - Green

V/C - Jones, Moloney, Trengove

LG - Frawley, Jamar, Watts* depends on his preseason after Neeld's open comments.

Oh, I can't wait to get smashed after this one, but it's what I would like to see happen.

[Sir Why You Little 34,771]

Captain - Green

V/C - Jones, Moloney, Trengove

LG - Frawley, Jamar, Watts* depends on his preseason after Neeld's open comments.

Oh, I can't wait to get smashed after this one, but it's what I would like to see happen.

Why do you reward Green with captaincy? He has shown us already it is not for him.