Ball no longer a Saint, confirmed.

[Guest hangon007]

I can't wait for this saga to turn full circle with Ball ending up at Melbourne. I'm enjoying the backflips on this thread. If Ball changes his mind I'll ready myself for the triple twists.

So many people are suggesting they're "over this". I hope the Melbourne Footy Dept don't give in as quickly as most posters here. Until Luke Ball is directly quoted, I'm not prepared to hang him. In fact even if he is quoted as saying he doesn't want to come to us, I'll completely understand. I have a fair amount of sympathy for the guy. I posted somewhere else that we might as well send out our forum footy team. At least we'll know they'll "bleed for the team". Luke Ball is a professional. If the cards fall our way, talks with St Kilda break down and he doesn't like his chances of getting to Collingwood and wants to stay in Victoria, he'll come to us. Admitedly that's looking quite unlikely at the minute. But if it did happen, I'm more than happy with the ability of Luke Ball to re-focus and commit to his new team. Who knows, in a couple of years, he may even "bleed for the jumper". "Bleed for the jumper" may well be the new "un-Australian". Blaaah

Very nicely put ... Being serious for once in this thread I'm with you 100%. Sadly I fear we are maintaining an undesirable culture at our football club.

Many of our supporters just a/ give up far too easy b/ feel powerless to do anything c/ unwilling to do that little bit extra

We just dont have enough supporters prepared to "bleed for the jumper" and "do what it takes" instead many prefer to sit back hoping others get the job done.

Hopefully this will change with some on-field success.

Edited November 3, 2009 by hangon007

[timD 994]

[censored], there is no 'entitlement' about being angry in this case. We do not know him, his situation, his thoughts or what the club has said, done or is thinking really. If you think that this situation of knowing nothing justifies anger, then I've got to wonder under what situation you'd ever advocate reflection.

[flog 20]

Very nice put ... Being serious for once in this thread I'm with you 100%. Sadly I fear we are maintaining an undesirable culture at our football club.

Many of our supporters just a/ give up far too easy b/ feel powerless to do anything c/ unwilling to do that little bit extra

We just dont have enough supporters prepared to "bleed for the jumper" and "do what it takes" instead many prefer to sit back hoping others get the job done.

Hopefully this will change with some on-field success.

I would really love to know what the humble supporter can do to get Ball to the club. There was a thread devoted to this and we all sore what happened there.

[45HG 1,539]

We just dont have enough supporters prepared to "bleed for the jumper" and "do what it takes" instead many prefer to sit back hoping others get the job done.

May I ask what you've done?

[Guest hangon007]

I would really love to know what the humble supporter can do to get Ball to the club. There was a thread devoted to this and we all sore what happened there.

For me this "Luke Ball saga" just highlights the issues we face and crystallises how some other MFC supporters think ... now I'm not saying they are right/wrong & I understand their thinking process.

However, maybe looking for the positives from this whole situation it has motivated me into thinking I too am guilty of not doing enough.

Like you as a "humble supporter" I now want to find out how I can do more.

Goodvibes 2 posts in this thread IMHO are spot on ... now I just have to seek the vehicle as to how I can do more.

For me now the eventual out come of the Luke Ball situation is immaterial ... for me its now about how I can give more with or without Luke Ball.

Now more has different definitions to all

If more means .... I have to buy an extra membership ... I will consider that option

If more means .... I have to volunteer some time to the MFC ... I will consider that option

If more means .... I have to help to raise money for the MFC ... I will consider that option

Anyway thanks guys I personally really appreciated Goodvibes comments.

[Supermercado 2,644]

Free good players are one thing, but if the guy isn't 100% committed to playing for us then pish him off and let's move on.

[Carn dees 108]

We where once all wondering if we could squeeze Jones Moloney and Mclean in the same midfield especially with our young guns coming in.

Is there a difference with ball personally i highly rate ball just because i love and in and under courageous player, but he is by no means a match winner or game breaker.

Would like him at the club due to maturity and experience along side moloney in our midfeild.

But if he decides to stay at the saints or go else where i wont be to worried about it.

Personally i think he'l remain a saint.

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

If the Pies were lucky to fall into 4th place with an injury free season and an unbelievably easy fixture this year, I don't see them featuring in 2010.

You're quite stupid if you feel Collingwood were...

Lucky to fall into 4th Place - We finished a game clear & had wrapped up the Top 4 berth in RD 20.

Easy fixture - We played 12 of our 22 games (15 of our 25 games were against Top 8 sides & we won 9 of these games) against Top 8 sides & won 8 of these games (we were also undefeated interstate including wins over Brisbane in Brisbane & Adelaide in Adelaide) in 2009.

We had quite an injury riddled season, we used more players in 2009 than any Top 8 side.

As for the stale jibe, we started a rebuild in 05; 4 players remain from the 22 that played our last game in 2006 (a final) to the our last game (no club has turned over their starting 22 as much as us in this period). We also had 14 of our 22 being 21 or younger (& you can add another in Pendlebury who was injured) in our PF side. The most of any side in the Top 8 (the next best in the Top 4 was 3 players 21 or younger) & comparatively, the side that thrashed you on QB, was actually younger than your side.

Edited November 3, 2009 by The Old Xaverian

[Sir Why You Little 34,705]

You're quite stupid if you feel Collingwood were...

Lucky to fall into 4th Place - We finished a game clear & had wrapped up the Top 4 berth in RD 20.

No old i will give you that one. The Filth in 2009 deserved to be in 4th Spot after Round 22. Yep no arguement there.

Your finals campaign was pretty ordinary though, against St.kilda after an even first Q the aints just ground you down slowly, The pies tried hard but were basically outclassed.

Against adelaide you won a classic close final that you shouldn't have but you did. In the First Half you were blown away, & then somehow Adelaide dried up & you guys went for the kill & got on a roll.

The last Q it was back on & the Froot Loops were bloody stiff to lose to be Totally honest, not that a give a rats about adelaide or cpllingwood but as a game it was a beauty-which adelaide were just plain stiff.

Against Geelong, well we all know what happened..... (i actually thought of you old from a bar in Manila where i watched the game, i wondered whether you had ended it all because of the pain) But no you are still with us!!

The Filth got totally smashed & exposed that night, Geelong did as they pleased in the 2nd Half. God they were good. ..How are Cloke & Davis still on your list?? Do you really think they will improve?? I'm suprised at that one..Thought their lockers would have been cleaned out. Bloody Hell Straughnie would have played better than cloke that night.

Shall be fascinating to see where the Filth finish up at round 22 next year..You finally have a ruckmen so that is something.

Round 2 could be a close game you know. A bunch of Raw Kids ready to have a dip against the over rated Birds.

There will be no problem working out who is the younger side in 2010. (i Remember Malthouses elongated Mathematics at the Press Conference telling the world how much younger the Filth was-Technically he was correct JUST..But it was great political spin, & more like pulling at straws).

Have the Filth Peaked yet or are they on the decline....That's what i am waiting to see.

The Jury is out to lunch on that one Old Xav.....

[DemonDan... 77]

Free good players are one thing, but if the guy isn't 100% committed to playing for us then pish him off and let's move on.

Exactly. Lets grow our own Balls.. (Yes, 2 meanings there )

What clinches it for me anyway, is the fact that he's in and out of the country every 2 seconds on holiday!

If you were serious about proving people wrong and wanting to play better footy, wouldn't you be back training already?

He [censored] around in the 2s most of the year, so he doesnt need the extra break from playing a month later because of finals.

Seems half-assed to me and if thats how his pre-season is shaping up then neither the Saints or Dees will want him..

BTW- Collingpood are shite, do we have to pollute our threads by mentioning them here?

Edited November 3, 2009 by DemonDan...

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,349]

Will we even bother to use the PSD pick?

I'd be very disappointed in this outcome considering the club has told us, via the media, that it will be intending on picking up a mature aged recruit in the PSD.

[Whispering_Jack 28,025]

You're quite stupid if you feel Collingwood were...

Lucky to fall into 4th Place - We finished a game clear & had wrapped up the Top 4 berth in RD 20.

Easy fixture - We played 12 of our 22 games (15 of our 25 games were against Top 8 sides & we won 9 of these games) against Top 8 sides & won 8 of these games (we were also undefeated interstate including wins over Brisbane in Brisbane & Adelaide in Adelaide) in 2009.

We had quite an injury riddled season, we used more players in 2009 than any Top 8 side.

As for the stale jibe, we started a rebuild in 05; 4 players remain from the 22 that played our last game in 2006 (a final) to the our last game (no club has turned over their starting 22 as much as us in this period). We also had 14 of our 22 being 21 or younger (& you can add another in Pendlebury who was injured) in our PF side. The most of any side in the Top 8 (the next best in the Top 4 was 3 players 21 or younger) & comparatively, the side that thrashed you on QB, was actually younger than your side.

So how many times in 2009 was Collingwood drawn to play against the previous year's grand finallists Hawthorn and Geelong?

A: one each.

How many times was Collingwood drawn to play St. Kilda and the Bulldogs (who made up the rest of the previous year's top 4?

A: once for St. Kilda and twice for the Bulldogs. 

That sounds about as easy as it can get, especially given that the second Doggies game was in Round 22.

What was Collingwood's record against those 2008 top four sides?

A: 1:4 in home & away games, 1:6 counting finals. The single win was by 1 point against the Bulldogs.

Granted, Collingwood's record against the teams finishing fifth to eighth wasn't bad - on my reckoning you won 6 out of 9 in that category (8 out of 9 against the bottom 8) giving you a 50% record against finals sides and less than that counting finals. You made the top four in the finals series on the strength of a 1 point win against Adelaide at the MCG - hardly a march into the top four and lucky given that the difference at the end was the result of a kick for goal given from a free late in the game.

The point I'm making is that if Collingwood lucked it out with an easy fixture in 2009 it will need to improve considerably with a much tougher draw in 2010.

Your statement about Collingwood having had "quite an injury riddled season" is risible. Yes, there were some injuries in the early part of the season but I'm told by some Magpie fans that injuries might have affected the result of one game in the first half of the season but you were very much near injury free in the run home in the second half. The evidence of that is the fact that in the first week of the finals there were 43 of a possible 46 players available to represent Collingwood's AFL and VFL sides. I call that "a dream run" compared to that of every other team in the competition - unheard of in recent times, in fact.

When Casey played Collingwood in the VFL final it had one senior and two rookie list players available. Even allowing for the fact that there was some list management taking place, that's what I call "injury riddled". Of course the next thing you're going to tell me is that Pendelbury's presence in the team would have changed the result of the preliminary final!

Again, if Collingwood has an average season with injuries and they happen at the wrong time then, with your fixture, you will have reason to worry.

You claim that Collingwood fielded a younger team on QB and that could be marginally correct but it means little when Melbourne's list was limited by injury. You'll find that in 2010 it will be us fielding the team with greater depth of talent and I can guarantee you that we'll give you a run for your money.

The "stale" comment isn't a "jibe". Malthouse is a good coach but he's been there as coach for 11 seasons without the ultimate in team success. Historically, his second half at the clubs he's coached has been a downhill slide. That's my view of where Collingwood, with all of its money and good administration is heading.

My view on Ball is that I would be happy for him to end up at the Lexus Centre. He's a sensational footballer at his best but I fear that (for reasons to do with the condition of his body) his best is behind him and therefore he would make a better fit for Collingwood than for Melbourne ... but that's just my opinion.     

[Jarka 767]

C'mon guys, let's not get all up in arms over a newspaper article. Remember how wrong all the papers were over Aaron Davey? Most of the journalists have no idea what's going on, it's a proven fact.

We just need to sit back and let the club do it's work, if Ball comes to us it's a bonus, if not, that's life. Ball doesn't owe us anything so getting upset at him is pointless.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

We just need to sit back and let the club do it's work, if Ball comes to us it's a bonus, if not, that's life. Ball doesn't owe us anything so getting upset at him is pointless.

Agree

Like you as a "humble supporter" I now want to find out how I can do more.

If more means .... I have to buy an extra membership ... I will consider that option

If more means .... I have to volunteer some time to the MFC ... I will consider that option

If more means .... I have to help to raise money for the MFC ... I will consider that option

These are questions an MFC supporter may contemplate regardless of the Ball situation. What you decide in any option is hardly going to impact the Ball decision.

I'd be very disappointed in this outcome considering the club has told us, via the media, that it will be intending on picking up a mature aged recruit in the PSD.

Source?

[beelzebub 22,269]

may I remind some

"We are looking to meet Luke some time next week and that's a request from Luke and his manager," Connolly said.

Now if some say there no validity in that then you are simply calling Cuddles a liar. Heres the number 9652 1111...tell him so !!

There was obviously supposed to be a meeting and this didnt eventuate. So either..Connors or Ball or both are simply men who lack integrity or there is yet more to unfold. I doubt the latter.

The more I think about it the more i see the club as having gone Luke -warm about the whole idea, now seeing him for what he is.. and remember ...actions speak louder than words. Even Crudd had the ability to show up even if he had no intentions.

Ball still has the opportunity to show us he has some....if not then why would you want him.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

My view on Ball is that I would be happy for him to end up at the Lexus Centre. He's a sensational footballer at his best but I fear that (for reasons to do with the condition of his body) his best is behind him and therefore he would make a better fit for Collingwood than for Melbourne ... but that's just my opinion.     

Mine too.

For what it's worth, I hope he goes to Collingwood. He's not a game-breaker, and the Pies are headed for as many flags in 2010 and 2011 as we are. I can say that with ironclad certainty. As ironclad as the fact they were never going to win a prelim. Not on this planet.

The current list of pies are about the same as MFC over the early-mid 2000s. Good, but certainly not good ewough to take home a flag. Their draw and facilities flatter them. If they travelled as much as WE did in our peak period a few years ago, they'd just miss out on top 4 too, and get bundled out year after year. Like us, they'll suffer from mediocrity, and will be due for a rebuild as early as 2012.

They have their president to thank for the fact they'll be rebulding when the first unaffected drafts return.

I get stuck into the Pies like all of us, but they've done it right here. What else are they supposed to do? Rebuild now? No. They can play lots of finals footy over the next few years, despite the fact they've not QUITE recruited well enough to push for a flag. Assuming that all PSD players are USUALLY NQR types, Ball is about as good as out-of-contract players get. Let him go to the pies, and in a few years, he'll find himself 28, in a wooden spoon side who's rebuilding... meanwhile we're climbing the ladder.

[flog 20]

[censored], there is no 'entitlement' about being angry in this case. We do not know him, his situation, his thoughts or what the club has said, done or is thinking really. If you think that this situation of knowing nothing justifies anger, then I've got to wonder under what situation you'd ever advocate reflection.

As BB quoted

"We are looking to meet Luke some time next week and that's a request from Luke and his manager," Connolly said.

There is the entitlement. If the article in the Australian is correct and Luke Ball is heading overseas again without meeting us then were entitled to be [censored] off. I do find this hard to believe and as people have said, we need to wait for some concrete evidence before jumping to conclusions.

[H_T 2,941]

I can't wait for this saga to turn full circle with Ball ending up at Melbourne. I'm enjoying the backflips on this thread. If Ball changes his mind I'll ready myself for the triple twists.

....

....

....

....

Good posts, Gv.

May I ask what you've done?

Whack. Kapow. Very good point.

...... & comparatively, the side that thrashed you on QB, was actually younger than your side.

So you've mentioned plenty of times. I'm sure this ol' chestnut will be used several more times before the next QB clash. Feel proud to hang your hat on this stat by all means, Malthouse did. It is arguable, but it remains true to some degree, that after Collingwood's exit from the finals, when it matters, Collingwood are as just as far from a Premiership as Melbourne are. :D

You know the Mfc has a younger list than Cfc though, and I'm sure you're well aware we may well have the youngest list in the AFL by far come PSD time in a month or so.

PS. If you happen to see 45hotgod16's signature, have another read of it.

[Redleg 37,909]

may I remind some

There was obviously supposed to be a meeting and this didnt eventuate. So either..Connors or Ball or both are simply men who lack integrity or there is yet more to unfold. I doubt the latter.

This doesn't have to be an integrity issue, it could simply be that Ball has thought about it and told his manager to cancel the meeting so as not to waste our time, as he doesn't want to play for us. That would be his right and I don't blame him at all if that is his position.

Every news article since I started this thread has had the same thrust, that Ball does not want to come to Melbourne and will probably stay a Saint. If true so be it. We move on.

PS. I expect to change the title of the thread in the next few days to "confirmed".

Edited November 3, 2009 by Redleg

[beelzebub 22,269]

Integrity might be to say exactly that then Red !! To make a little announcement to that effect. To thank Melbourne for its interest but will be looking elsewhere etc.

probably a bit too much to expect

[rpfc 27,591]

Integrity might be to say exactly that then Red !! To make a little announcement to that effect. To thank Melbourne for its interest but will be looking elsewhere etc.

probably a bit too much to expect

If a MFC player was flirting with leaving but the club got him to reconsider and he still went to a meeting with another team I would not be happy.

If the reports are correct, it looks as though Ball will stay with HIS club.

Why the Flying Unicorn Called Kirk should he meet with us if he has made that decision?

Due diligence?

He wants to stay at his club.

Edited November 4, 2009 by rpfc

[beelzebub 22,269]

I'll put it simply.... If he doesnt want to meet us after seeking it..He can bloody well come out and say that instead of playing at puncy cat and mouse like [censored] weak efforts that he has to date.

If a MFC player was flirting with leaving but the club got him to reconsider and he still went to a meeting with another team I would not be happy

thats not the issue.. still cant grasp it I see. its not whether he does or doesnt..its whether he has the gonads to be respectful and have integrity. its not that hard is it to say..'Sorry changed mind" ??Gee..is that too much ?? Instead we hear a silence which suggest to me he has absolutely no backbone whatsoever.. and i think Lyon has thought this too.

The issue of him staying at StKilda or going elsewhere is irrelevent in the context of how he has presented himself to our club. Seems he isnt a man of his word...either that or his word was worth cack in the first place.

Let him go to Collingwood or fester on the pine at Seaford.

Bails and Co have shown what they think of weaklings who say one thing and do another....id join him in chorus here.

[hoopla 418]

... To thank Melbourne for its interest but will be looking elsewhere etc.

Perhaps he already has thanked us- and perhaps St Kilda has asked him to stay silent until they have approved his new contract ?The fact is we don't know. ........

We just have to wait

In the meantime Ball has done nothing wrong.

[rpfc 27,591]

I'll put it simply.... If he doesnt want to meet us after seeking it..He can bloody well come out and say that instead of playing at puncy cat and mouse like [censored] weak efforts that he has to date.

thats not the issue.. still cant grasp it I see. its not whether he does or doesnt..its whether he has the gonads to be respectful and have integrity. its not that hard is it to say..'Sorry changed mind" ??Gee..is that too much ?? Instead we hear a silence which suggest to me he has absolutely no backbone whatsoever.. and i think Lyon has thought this too.

The issue of him staying at StKilda or going elsewhere is irrelevent in the context of how he has presented himself to our club. Seems he isnt a man of his word...either that or his word was worth cack in the first place.

Let him go to Collingwood or fester on the pine at Seaford.

Bails and Co have shown what they think of weaklings who say one thing and do another....id join him in chorus here.

Nah, I can't grasp it.

Because there is not a lot to grasp.

The silence is deafening and I realise now that I have joined in on this pointless guessing game.

No more from me on Ball until a decision is made.

BB59, the stage is yours...

Personally, I hope this thread turns into a semantical argument over the meaning of integrity or, possibly, the importance of integrity.

And go...

[Redleg 37,909]

I'll put it simply.... If he doesnt want to meet us after seeking it..He can bloody well come out and say that instead of playing at puncy cat and mouse like [censored] weak efforts that he has to date.

Put even simpler, we don't know if he actually sought a meeting with us at all. All we know is what we read in the papers unless we have spoken to him personally and I haven't.

The facts as we know them are:

He sought a trade to the Pies.

It didn't happen.

Melbourne said it was interested.

He wants to play with the Pies but can see the problem getting there through the draft.

He has met the St.Kilda coach, presumably to discuss his future.

Otherwise it has been newspaper talk.

He owes us nothing if he promised us nothing.

He doesn't deserve the bagging from some on here as it would appear he has done nothing wrong other than not getting on the front page of the Herald Sun and declaring his undying love for the MFC.

I repeat this is not an integrity issue.