Do we need to draft a ruckman?

[frawley for captain 0]

do we need to draft a ruckman this year?

we already have 4 designated ruckman plus Martin who i like as the second ruck.

should we be looking at Vardy or James Craig in his coming draft or should we go for another midfielder?

my perfect draft:

1. Scully

2. Trengove

11. Butcher

18. Vardy

34. D. Grimes

PSD 1. Ball

[Rogue 585]

do we need to draft a ruckman this year?

I'd rookie another ruck - would have done in the past and would keep doing this until further notice.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Any of this draft talk is speculation but I think Vardy will be on our radar come 18.

While good ruckman can be rookied a ruckman with running ability and skills can be a smart investment. It seems clubs are willing to pay over the odds for young ruckmen at the trade table in the unlikely event we end up with a surplus.

[Little Goffy 12,727]

I have to respond to the 'we have four designated ruckmen' comment. Being designated a ruckman type doesn't make someone an AFL Ruckman.

Paul Johnson is entering what may well be the last year of his career if he doesn't take another step, particularly in consistency and disposal. I say this as someone who has long respected him.

Jake Spencer... I listened to the hype, I watched closely, I don't think it's there I'm afraid.

John Meesen is essentially 'unknown with an edge of unlikely'. He hasn't played a senior game for us, we can't bank anything on him yet.

Stefan Martin is being groomed as a 'key utility' and even if he fulfils the clear promise he has shown, he won't be a major ruckman.

Leaving Mark Jamar as our only established ruckman right now, let alone in three years or more as any ruckmen recruited now come into their own.

We've got to pick up a likely ruckman this draft. There's a reasonable chance that one of Vardy or Fitzpatrick will be there at 18. They are the best two going this year and in our circumstances pick 18 is a bargain for even a moderately good ruckman, if that is all they eventually develop into.

EDIT: As pointed out by others, Meesen has actually played four senior games for us early this year. I'm appropriately embarassed to have forgotten them. He did ok. We still 'can't bank on him yet' though.

Edited October 18, 2009 by Distance Demon

[BAMF 3,787]

I have to respond to the 'we have four designated ruckmen' comment. Being designated a ruckman type doesn't make someone an AFL Ruckman.

Paul Johnson is entering what may well be the last year of his career if he doesn't take another step, particularly in consistency and disposal. I say this as someone who has long respected him.

Jake Spencer... I listened to the hype, I watched closely, I don't think it's there I'm afraid.

John Meesen is essentially 'unknown with an edge of unlikely'. He hasn't played a senior game for us, we can't bank anything on him yet.

Stefan Martin is being groomed as a 'key utility' and even if he fulfils the clear promise he has shown, he won't be a major ruckman.

Leaving Mark Jamar as our only established ruckman right now, let alone in three years or more as any ruckmen recruited now come into their own.

We've got to pick up a likely ruckman this draft. There's a reasonable chance that one of Vardy or Fitzpatrick will be there at 18. They are the best two going this year and in our circumstances pick 18 is a bargain for even a moderately good ruckman, if that is all they eventually develop into.

I agree with the above.

If we rookie Spencer for the third year it means that Jamar, Meesen, Johnson and Spencer all come out of contract at the end of next year.

Johnson and Meesen will be likely to go.

Ruckman take so long to develop. Would rather pick up one sooner than later.

I would like Vardy. Looks like he might be around at pick 18.

Max Gawn could be a likely type too. Not sure if he would be around for pick 34.

[titan_uranus 22,659]

Paul Johnson is entering what may well be the last year of his career if he doesn't take another step, particularly in consistency and disposal. I say this as someone who has long respected him.

Jake Spencer... I listened to the hype, I watched closely, I don't think it's there I'm afraid.

John Meesen is essentially 'unknown with an edge of unlikely'. He hasn't played a senior game for us, we can't bank anything on him yet.

Stefan Martin is being groomed as a 'key utility' and even if he fulfils the clear promise he has shown, he won't be a major ruckman.

You know, he did play 4 games this year.

Other than that, that's all pretty spot on I reckon. PJ is not the future, Spencer and Meesen we need to see more of, Martin at best will be a second ruck. I guess that means there's quite a bit riding on Spencer and Meesen in 2010.

[Adzman 2,085]

If we are rebuilding, why not look at rebuilding in all areas? Our ruck stocks outside the Russian are laughable.

If Vardy is there at Pick 18 then we would be stupid not to take him. Jamar is out only proven ruckman (it hurts to write this), so we really need to find a kid who can ruck for us in a few years time. From all reports vardy is the best going, so why the hell not!

Meesen looked slow and average I watched him deserves another year to prove he has got it, i just can't seem him wowing us enough in 2010 to warrant keeping him around. He has one foot out the door IMO.

Pj is Pj, he should have been groomed as a forward not a ruckman. This has stuffed him up big time, and will shorten his career unless he can learn to ruck and get involved in the game around the ground. Last chance for PJ, could save his career with a strong 2010.

Jake Spencer looks like Napoleon Dynamite! GOSH, do I have to chase that dang ball!! Another preseason under his belt might turn out to be just what he needs. He might develop into Dynamite without the Napoleon part. He is ahead of Meesen at this stage, with youth on his side. If he develops he will be given a senior roster spot next season.

[Guest hangon007]

John Meesen is essentially 'unknown with an edge of unlikely'. He hasn't played a senior game for us, we can't bank anything on him yet.

What are you talking about ... do you go to the football?

[grant 10]

I have to respond to the 'we have four designated ruckmen' comment. Being designated a ruckman type doesn't make someone an AFL Ruckman.

Paul Johnson is entering what may well be the last year of his career if he doesn't take another step, particularly in consistency and disposal. I say this as someone who has long respected him.

Jake Spencer... I listened to the hype, I watched closely, I don't think it's there I'm afraid.

John Meesen is essentially 'unknown with an edge of unlikely'. He hasn't played a senior game for us, we can't bank anything on him yet.

Stefan Martin is being groomed as a 'key utility' and even if he fulfils the clear promise he has shown, he won't be a major ruckman.

Leaving Mark Jamar as our only established ruckman right now, let alone in three years or more as any ruckmen recruited now come into their own.

We've got to pick up a likely ruckman this draft. There's a reasonable chance that one of Vardy or Fitzpatrick will be there at 18. They are the best two going this year and in our circumstances pick 18 is a bargain for even a moderately good ruckman, if that is all they eventually develop into.

I want best available each and every time.

[BAMF 3,787]

I want best available each and every time.

What if every time is a half back flanker?

Best available for the first three picks. Pick 18 can and should be used for needs.

[DEES 0]

i reckon James Craig is worth a look, i think he offers a lot with his leap and could probably play up back or forward. You dont need the "traditional" ruckmen to ruck when the new "versatile" ruckmen like clark and ryder have proven they are just as good.

[Keyser Söze 0]

What if every time is a half back flanker?

Best available for the first three picks. Pick 18 can and should be used for needs.

True, but the "clearly best available" will never be "only a half back flanker" unless its a round late enough for us to justify picking for position.

[hillie 41]

do we need to draft a ruckman this year?

we already have 4 designated ruckman plus Martin who i like as the second ruck.

should we be looking at Vardy or James Craig in his coming draft or should we go for another midfielder?

my perfect draft:

1. Scully

2. Trengove

11. Butcher

18. Vardy

34. D. Grimes

PSD 1. Ball

i agree that this is pretty much ideal for us, if jetta and black are not available at 18 i would be going for the big man vardy.

[Redleg 37,909]

my perfect draft:

1. Scully

2. Trengove

11. Butcher

18. Vardy

34. D. Grimes

PSD 1. Ball

I would imagine the above result would send Barry Prendergast running out of the draft into the street, pumping his fists into the air and screaming in the manner of Ali " I AM THE GREATEST".

[Carlos Danger 380]

My dream scenario:

1. Tom Scully

2. Jack Trengove

11. Luke Tapscott/Koby Stevens

18. Matthew Panos/Jake Carlisle/Aaron Black

34. Jack Fitzpatrick/Nathan Vardy

50. Mitchell Taylor

A good big bodied midfielder who can kick goals at pick 11 is a lot more appealing than the prospect of Butcher and grabbing the best available tall forward at 18. Probably not likely to nab a good ruckman at pick 34 but the rucks aren't overly impressive this year and we've already got 5 on our list. I'm also of the opinion that a great midfield can compensate an average ruckman.

[titan_uranus 22,659]

My dream scenario:

1. Tom Scully

2. Jack Trengove

11. Luke Tapscott/Koby Stevens

18. Matthew Panos/Jake Carlisle/Aaron Black

34. Jack Fitzpatrick/Nathan Vardy

50. Mitchell Taylor

A good big bodied midfielder who can kick goals at pick 11 is a lot more appealing than the prospect of Butcher and grabbing the best available tall forward at 18. Probably not likely to nab a good ruckman at pick 34 but the rucks aren't overly impressive this year and we've already got 5 on our list. I'm also of the opinion that a great midfield can compensate an average ruckman.

I think it's highly unlikely we'll be using pick 50. As it stands we need to free up another spot on the list just to use 34 (this is assuming we use PSD1).

[Little Goffy 12,727]

You know, he did play 4 games this year.

Other than that, that's all pretty spot on I reckon. PJ is not the future, Spencer and Meesen we need to see more of, Martin at best will be a second ruck. I guess that means there's quite a bit riding on Spencer and Meesen in 2010.

Holy Crap, he did too. I even remember watching and musing on him at the time, really early in the season. Came in when basically every other ruckman, was injured. He did ok, or at least, he did well enough to not write him off just yet. Hell, at one stage he was the 'winningest' player on our list, with one win out of two games!

That's really odd that I forgot. I've watched guys like MacNamara, McKenzie, Spencer and even Newton pretty closely all year, keeping an eye out for anywhere that significant improvement might come from. I hope it's not an omen.

However, embarrassing at it is to have forgotted that cameo, I think the points I made are still sound.

[Deeoldfart 7,801]

..................................... However, embarrassing at it is to have forgotted that cameo, I think the points I made are still sound.

Agreed that your points are pretty sound ........................ and don't feel too embarassed about your oversight. I have memory lapses all the time, and so do the pollys. It must be the Canberra air!

[Carlos Danger 380]

I think it's highly unlikely we'll be using pick 50. As it stands we need to free up another spot on the list just to use 34 (this is assuming we use PSD1).

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tab...55/default.aspx

As far as I can tell, we have atleast 7 spots available.

[titan_uranus 22,659]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tab...55/default.aspx

As far as I can tell, we have atleast 7 spots available.

OK, there are 2 ways to look at this.

1. Look at the 09 list, and fill in the gaps. We've lost Wheatley, Whelan, Robbo, McLean and Buckley. That's 5 spots. That's picks 1, 2, 11, 18 and either PSD 1 or 34.

Valenti's delisting doesn't count because he was on the rookie list.

2. Use that URL there. I see 4 spots available (room for picks 1, 2, 11, 18). From my reckoning there should be a fifth, which is maybe on account of McDonald being a veteran (I don't know if that's right).

The other 2 are rookie spots. They don't get filled from the ND. If we re-rookie McNamara, a process I don't fully understand, then we could use another pick at the ND. But as it stands, we can't.

Either way, as it stands there's not enough room to be using 50. Or even 34 if we use PSD 1.

Edited October 18, 2009 by titan_uranus

[Carlos Danger 380]

OK, there are 2 ways to look at this.

1. Look at the 09 list, and fill in the gaps. We've lost Wheatley, Whelan, Robbo, McLean and Buckley. That's 5 spots. That's picks 1, 2, 11, 18 and either PSD 1 or 34.

Valenti's delisting doesn't count because he was on the rookie list.

2. Use that URL there. I see 4 spots available (room for picks 1, 2, 11, 18). From my reckoning there should be a fifth, which is maybe on account of McDonald being a veteran (I don't know if that's right).

The other 2 are rookie spots. They don't get filled from the ND. If we re-rookie McNamara, a process I don't fully understand, then we could use another pick at the ND. But as it stands, we can't.

Either way, as it stands there's not enough room to be using 50. Or even 34 if we use PSD 1.

The way I figure is look at the Collingwood and Geelong lists, they have 40 seniors and 7 rookies for a total of 47 spots on their list. We have 39 seniors and 7 rookies for a total of 46, I am certain we are a player under the maximum as it stands. Plus the 6 blank spots, which makes 7. Then factor in Junior McDonald being considered a veteran (outside the list), that makes 8. But I'm not entirely sure about the veterans part, whether that is subtracted already or not, I don't know, I do know Collingwood only has one veteran on their list and an extra player. So I'm certain we have a minimum of 7.

And it's not just a "URL" as you put it, it's from the official AFL website. I think that is as credible of a source as you can get.

[hoopla 418]

The way I figure is look at the Collingwood and Geelong lists, they have 40 seniors and 7 rookies for a total of 47 spots on their list. We have 39 seniors and 7 rookies for a total of 46, I am certain we are a player under the maximum as it stands. Plus the 6 blank spots, which makes 7. Then factor in Junior McDonald being considered a veteran (outside the list), that makes 8. But I'm not entirely sure about the veterans part, whether that is subtracted already or not, I don't know, I do know Collingwood only has one veteran on their list and an extra player. So I'm certain we have a minimum of 7.

And it's not just a "URL" as you put it, it's from the official AFL website. I think that is as credible of a source as you can get.

I'm not sure about the total numbers incl veterans either. But if you assume that our numbers were right last year when JMac was also a veteran, we presently have just 5 vacancies ( Whelan,Wheels, Robbo,Brock,Bucks) - to be taken by 1,2,11,18 and PSD ( Ball). If Spencer is promoted, then we don't even have the space to use 34. Bottom line is that if we want to use 50 and keep Spencer) , we've probably got to delist 3 more .

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

OK, there are 2 ways to look at this.

1. Look at the 09 list, and fill in the gaps. We've lost Wheatley, Whelan, Robbo, McLean and Buckley. That's 5 spots. That's picks 1, 2, 11, 18 and either PSD 1 or 34.

Valenti's delisting doesn't count because he was on the rookie list.

2. Use that URL there. I see 4 spots available (room for picks 1, 2, 11, 18). From my reckoning there should be a fifth, which is maybe on account of McDonald being a veteran (I don't know if that's right).

The other 2 are rookie spots. They don't get filled from the ND. If we re-rookie McNamara, a process I don't fully understand, then we could use another pick at the ND. But as it stands, we can't.

Either way, as it stands there's not enough room to be using 50. Or even 34 if we use PSD 1.

Bruce is going on the veterans list, so that frees up a spot on the main list as well. He will take the veteran spot formerly occupied by Robbo. That plus the four players delisted from the main list give us room for 5 at the moment.

[The Time is Now 1]

james craig looks really good to me, reminds me alot of jeff white, would love to get him at 34

[Dee tention 611]

james craig looks really good to me, reminds me alot of jeff white, would love to get him at 34

Jeff White was so overated. We dont need anybody like him. Majak Daw for me!