Miller to ruck, Warnock up forward,.. McLean to Carlton

[tallstuey 35]

Well there you have it boys. Brock McLean in his interview on SEN thismorning has basically declared that there were small factions within the team over the last few weeks over the issue of "manufacturing" outcomes to serve the teams better long term interest.

How on earth can you send young men out there who have trained there guts out for months to try and win a game when there is an alternative agenda happening in the coaches box.

Good one Melbourne. We have essentially disillusioned some of our own boys and smothered their passion. Just when Melbourne needs more MOJO, we hand it to other clubs.

Had enough.

[Jarka 767]

We are in the business of winning premierships, not popularity contests and if you think that this sort of thing hasn't gone on in other clubs then you're seriously deluded. The greatest ironies of all is McLean making these comments as he's about to start his career with Carlton, the greatest tankers of all.

Irony is a [censored]

[Guest]

Yep, Melbourne treated the second half of the AFL season like the pre-season. Big deal. Pre-seasons end and so did 2009.

Brock's deflecting from the fact he was told he was no longer an essential part of the game plan.

Edited September 29, 2009 by Guest

[jayceebee31 761]

Brock stated that he supported MFC on whatever their endeavors were in the last 6 to 8 matches. He claimed it was not that as being the reason for leaving- however I feel with Robbo's comments etc.. things were not too good at Demonland(footy club),overall. Robbo made the statement that several were unhappy.

However, the club had to do what they done- no doubt about that- and we have to move on. Whatever the reasons why Brock left is now irrelevant, he met up with DB yesterday and now both parties go their seperate ways.

[BAMF 4,385]

I would have been so angry if we had won more than 4 this year.

No doubt this has created an issue with some of the players. No doubt there would be some bad vibes at the club at the moment.

The only way this is going to be fixed is by winning some games next year which will no doubt bring the team back together.

New season cant start soon enough.

[Supermercado 2,802]

Do people get off on spelling his name McClean? It's only been six years afterall...

[w00dy 146]

Well there you have it boys. Brock McClean in his interview on SEN thismorning has basically declared that there were small factions within the team over the last few weeks over the issue of "manufacturing" outcomes to serve the teams better long term interest.

You've misquoted him completely... Brock said that in circumstances like that, fractions within the team didn't occur, but the team stuck together, and got through that tough period together...

As has been said, he supported the club fully through that period...

For those who want to listen to the interview... http://www.sportsentral.com/pro/main/Podcasts.aspx Click on Morning Glory

Edited September 29, 2009 by vanlo

[45HG 1,559]

Maybe they should toughen up, listen to the coach and do what's best for the club they represent.

Days after we "manufactured" Jordan McMahon taking a mark after the siren before slotting a goal outside 50, Mclean made a very generous donation to the club - he couldn't have been that disenchanted

[Diablo Deemon 220]

^ Completely agree 45. There is no way melb coaching staff players decided the fate of that game it was too rediculous a set of circumstances to engineer such a result.

Kevin Sheedy in a recent article said that in the Ninties maybe 97 that he had alot of young players and played them out of position to discover their strengths and weaknesses. He wasn't tanking he was doing what coaches should do in a rebuilding or discovery phase.

It's absolute dicks like Mark Robertson and Andrew Maher ( a 4 eyed biased dick ) who continually lay the boot in MFC trying to destabilise us cause their wankers.

As for Brock he saw the writing on the wall at best he was going to be second string within 2 years with Scully being faster surer by hand, classier and younger.

Moloney had finally had a uninterupted season and eclipsed him, Silvia had gone passed him and Jones was younger than him .

Brock knew his best option was to get traded while he was still young carltank had always showed interest cause of the family connection and Ratts coaching at MFC. In the end it's a win for both sides.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Diablo Deemon

[Jaded No More 68,974]

You've misquoted and misunderstood Brock.

He said the club stuck together and the players just said they trust the club completely, and therefore factions were not formed.

Robbo probably spoke to the older generation players who were unhappy about this tactic because they won't be around to enjoy the rewards. So guess what, tough [censored]. If you won't be part of our next premiership, why the hell should we care about how you feel regarding tanking?

We did what we had to, and we did it well. The players were rewarded with a huge victory against Freo to offset the post-siren loss to the Tigers. I'm sure they're over it already.

Thank god we don't have to choose between Scully and Trengove (?) now, because we get both. If people don't see the value in that, and if players don't see the value in that, they're supporting the wrong business.

[drdrake 3,187]

I wonder at what stage Brock was approached by Carlton and had decided to go. The only reasons you leave a club is you have the shits or more cash, I think Brock was the first one. Don't forget at Carlton he os going to be the fourth best midfielder, he will seem a better player there because he wont get the attention that he did at Melb. Also maybe his body might not be able to stay heathy for a long period so he has to think short term and finals.

[sylvias dukes 9]

We are in the business of winning premierships, not popularity contests and if you think that this sort of thing hasn't gone on in other clubs then you're seriously deluded. The greatest ironies of all is McLean making these comments as he's about to start his career with Carlton, the greatest tankers of all.

Irony is a [censored]

I think Melbourne took tanking to a whole new level this year. Less rotations, put our backline into the foward line, played our best midfielders as permanent fowards. Against St Klda Jurrah was moved onto a wing then kicked two goals in a minute and was then dragged. Every one of our better players was rested at some stage. I mean other then the Richmond game, we didnt need to tank as we would have lost anyway. All tanking did was ensure we lost comfortable and there would be no nervous times in the stands wondering whether or not we wanted our side to win. I dont think we can chastise Carlton anymore unfortunately

[Big Kev 371]

Brock spoke very well. He didn't tip a bucket on the club at all. I think he saw the writing on the wall that we were supposed to be loading up with midfielders in the coming draft and thought he had a better future at Carlton where his grandfather played in a couple of premierships.

[Nunce 5]

Brock definitely went along with the tanking and understood the clubs position. He sat next to one of my best mates at the Presidents lunch against Richmond and was cheering for Jordan McMahon to get the goal.

Good luck to him.....ie..dont break a leg.......but dont win a premiership either

[rpfc 28,777]

Had enough.

So have I.

I undersrtand you are a Family Guy fan and I respect that, but what utter tripe you have just posted.

What has happened since this awful tanking issue has come up?

McLean for Pick 11.

That's it.

Davey wanted security for his family and he has re-signed.

But you get rid of a slow mid who would play on a flank next year for a pick that is more than he is worth and suddenly Bailey can't coach, the MFC has a bad culture, and we have just hastened the MFC apocolypse.

I don't want to sound patronising, because apparently all I am is sarcastic and patronising, but some of what I have read from MFC supporters over the past week has been some of the most pathetic, self-loathing, nonsensical rubbish you would ever see on the internet.

The whole internet...

All 2000 pages of the internet...

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

I think the MFC Board & Footy Dept have come out of this very strongly.

Brock for Pick 11 An Amicable Swap

Davey today resigns for 4 years

4 Picks in the top 20 in what is the Short Term Final Draft.

Today is a Mini Line in the sand Day for this club.

In Days passed Davey would have been lost to us. But he must be now excited in our future.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

What has happened since this awful tanking issue has come up?

McLean for Pick 11.

That's it.

McLean for Pick 11 is the only tangible change. How about the intangibles?

I supported our push to secure picks 1 and 2 but have grown increasingly uncomfortable with what transpired over the last 8 weeks of the season. I'm equally adept at justifying McLean's exit and I had already reconciled a possible Davey departure but I'm genuinely concerned about the ramifications of the way the club conducted itself during the second half of 2009. I've told myself that a couple of early victories in 2010 will have the players looking forward and certainly not dwellng on the events of the previous season but I'm not convinced.

I've got a lot of repect for Dean Bailey but I'm not sure the playing list can ride the tanking rollercoaster without having some reservations or questions about their boss. Some will suggest that the smart players will see that losing has been in their best interests. I worry about the not so smart players.

We took tanking to embarrassing new depths. Comparisons with Carlton are way off the money. I'm not suggesting we're in trouble and I'm not suggesting a player revolt is on the cards, I'm purely suggesting that it's way too early to assume that the club has successfully negotiated any tanking-related fallout that could come its way.

I'm no different to any Dees supporter who salivates over the prospect of Scully, Trengove as well as pick 11 and 18 and whatever comes out of PSD 1 but I do know that the flippant, throwaway forum demands for the club to lose games of AFL football are much easier to deal with in the virtual world. In the real world, however, we're talking about a club who's greatest assets are their players and those players happen to be human. And unfortunately humans usually possess human emotions. How many of us have put ourselves in the boots of a 2009 MFC footballer? How would you feel running out on the ground, giving your absolute best, running yourself into the ground and have your coach make clear decisions that are making it more difficult than it should be to win. You've lost all year and finally it looks like victory is within sight and you see the very backbone of your defence thrown forward, your key forward chucked into the ruck and your best onballers taken away from the centre square. Your Liam Jurrah, you've never even heard of the word 'tanking' and you're wondering why your coach is resting you on the pine when you've just kicked 4 incredible goals. It's too easy to simply say that every single player would realise that these losses are a necessary evil.

We can't wait for Trengove and Scully to get to our club because we know they're born winners. They're apparently very smart lads. How would they view the events of 2009? What does Jack Watts make of his new club? Does he still respect his first senior coach?

I'll probably be seen as naive or precious after this post but the future of this club is in the hands of a collection of very talented young players. Talented young players who are easily influenced - influenced by their parents, friends, mates at other clubs and maybe guys like Robbo and McLean who they looked up to. I wonder what these influences think about the MFC after the events of 2009.

I'm happy we've got picks 1 and 2 and am confident we have the makings of a premiership team but it's becoming tiresome seeing anyone who raises a few doubts in regards to the methods we've used to obtain this bright future, get shot down in flames.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

I'm happy we've got picks 1 and 2 and am confident we have the makings of a premiership team but it's becoming tiresome seeing anyone who raises a few doubts in regards to the methods we've used to obtain this bright future, get shot down in flames.

I understand where you are coming from, but the evidence thus far suggests that no long-term damage occurred.

McLean donated a big sum of money to the club days after we tanked the Richmond game.

Morton, Grimes, Maric, Aussie, Martin, Sylvia and now Davey have re-committed, and thus far nobody else has come out and requested a trade.

Looking back to when Carlton and Hawthorn were doing the same thing, what long term consequences have their suffered? Hawthorn won a flag, Carlton are now playing finals and lost nobody of distinction during what was a longer tanking campaign than ours.

There will always be players who are unhappy. They may be unhappy with our coach, with our facilities (can't be bothered driving to Casey ), with their role in the side, with the leadership group, with the way their injuries are handled. The problem is, that with 44 individuals in one club, you will never be able to please everyone. Players will get disgruntled, some will moan and [censored] about it then move on, some will ask to leave the club. So do you people manage for the sake of harmony, or do you talent manage for the sake of success?

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Looking back to when Carlton and Hawthorn were doing the same thing, what long term consequences have their suffered? Hawthorn won a flag, Carlton are now playing finals and lost nobody of distinction during what was a longer tanking campaign than ours.

Hawthorn traded core players and played inexperienced line-ups expecting to lose and received a priority pick. Carlton were genuinely terrible and the only evidence provided to support claims that they were tanking involved the round 22 game againt us. Of course they didn't want to win and of course they were angling towards the priority throughout the entire second half of the season but at no point did it come close to what we did. Do we all need to sit down and watch the Richmond game again?

I'll repeat again, no-one has even come close to replicating the obvious and calculated attempt to manipulate the priority pick rule as us. My point is simple, we will not know the ramifications for some time yet and supporters of this club shouldn't put their head in the sand and think we're through the worst of it. Sure, as supporters, we're confident we've had to sit throught the last of the engineered losses but we're yet to establish the damage done to the fabric of the club, the relationship the coach has with his players and the mindset of the playing group. I cross my fingers that the damage is minimal.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Well there you have it boys. Brock McLean in his interview on SEN thismorning has basically declared that there were small factions within the team over the last few weeks over the issue of "manufacturing" outcomes to serve the teams better long term interest.

Hardly news is it. Is what i would expect.

How on earth can you send young men out there who have trained there guts out for months to try and win a game when there is an alternative agenda happening in the coaches box.

Because thats their bloody job !! To do what the coach directs them.. if they dont see the big picture of just too thick to get it...then they can can walk..like Mclean has.. he's not too bright i take it

Good one Melbourne. We have essentially disillusioned some of our own boys and smothered their passion. Just when Melbourne needs more MOJO, we hand it to other clubs.

Had enough.

Oh get a grip wil you... such drama. Anyone ( players, staff, spectators) with a modicum of intelligence can see what was needed to be done and that now we are at the jumping off point to toa very exciting future. Am hardly disillusioned...but would have been had we won 5

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Because thats their bloody job !! To do what the coach directs them.. if they dont see the big picture of just too thick to get it...then they can can walk..like Mclean has.. he's not too bright i take it

Would you be laughing if it was Jurrah, Watts or Grimes?

[Sir Why You Little 37,127]

Am hardly disillusioned...but would have been had we won 5

Yes i think a lot more people would have been dissolusioned if we had won 5 games. Many more players may have walked.

The players knew what was going on & those that disagree are just copping out.

Brock is not quick enough to be in our best midfield going forward & he & the MFC knew it.

Edited September 30, 2009 by why you little

[beelzebub 23,383]

Would you be laughing if it was Jurrah, Watts or Grimes?

I think it fair to say all three had a much better grasp of this seasons reality than Brock !!

[Chook 15,022]

I don't want to sound patronising, because apparently all I am is sarcastic and patronising, but some of what I have read from MFC supporters over the past week has been some of the most pathetic, self-loathing, nonsensical rubbish you would ever see on the internet.

The whole internet...

All 2000 pages of the internet...

I think you have seriously underestimated the sheer size (and stupidity) of the Internet.

[tallstuey 35]

Thank-you to Goodvibes for posting the most intelligent and relevant comment to my original posting.

Lets get a few facts straight.

1) McClean was careful and clinical in his SEN interview not to make any specific accusations or create any enemies. However, it was clear when you listen "between the lines" that our tactics during the last few weeks played a big part in his decision to leave. Put simply, we mismanaged him.

2) McClean left us. The MFC did not want him to leave and tried to convince him to stay. Five years of energy and development walked out the door just as he was about to pay a dividend.

3) McClean did virtually no preseason this year after ankle surgery and played at "60%" this year in his own words. He is about to embark on his first running preseason in several years. Even at 60% he provided more grunt and gut running than many in the mid field.

4) Trengove and Scully have done nothing yet. They MAY be terrific and I am delighted to have pick 1 and 2 but they may also take 3,4 or 5 years to establish themselves. Let us hope they also do not leave after we have invested in them as McClean and Scotty Thompson have.

5) Any premiership team probably needs 8-10 top midfielders at the club, competing for positions, covering 1 or 2 injured midfielders with half a dozon rotating off the bench on matchday. McClean would still have been in our top 5 for a few years in my humble opinion and would have created ample pressure on new boys to improve or hold their places.

6) This is without doubt a mismanagement issue. I do not expect 44 players and all the coaching staff to have a "love in". However, I do expect our coaches to manage young men more professionally than this. I have great respect for Dean and what he is "trying" to do. I have respect for the way he is educating our players in the skill and art and philosophy of football. But I am becoming extremelly frustrated with, (lets say) the MFC, and its ability to galvanise unbridled passion among the players so that there are no factions, no temptations to offers from other clubs and no surprise defections.

7) To Belzebub, it is not the players job to compete to their full ability while alternative agendas exist in the coaching box. It is the players right to expect 100% support from the coaching box as they persue excellence for anything less undermines the cultural fabric of the club and takes years to forget.

8) And finally to those who have posted messages saying that "in a few years these new boys will take us to a premiership",

1) there is no such certainty in football and your insipid and protracted philosophical optimism shows no real moral fibre to argue for more immediate success based outcomes and

2) there are times when we need to plan for the now and not just the future. We have been and are obsessed with the future to the point that we constantly chase it. I have read dozens of annual reports from the club over 30 years describing where our players are on the "Premiership clock" and if we are patient, the NEW crop will deliver in a couple of years. Brock was taken as pick 5 (I think) with great excitement and fanfare at his leadership, his passion and toughness (qualities we just must have) and yet we say, oops, sorry we let you down, off you go, good luck, we are planning for 3-5 years hence. ALL NONSENSE -

Yes we stuffed it again.

Oh and ps, when was the last player who walked out of (not was traded by) another AFL club at 23 and said, "yeh, I know you want me to stay but I want to play at the MIGHTY MELBOURNE FOOTBALL CLUB" ?