Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Little Goffy 12,560]

8 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

Please tell me one single trade deal we won at the negotiation stage since we got what appeared to be overs for Darren Jolly.  Got done over in both the Tyson & Lever deals so I await evidence of winning negotiations. 

Hibberd, Melksham, Lewis, Garlett, Vince. Frost depending on how you rate him.

Anyway, the talk of an 'early first rounder' for May does trouble me a little and I'm wondering about the package deal options given Kolodjashnij, and also Gold Coasts picks 17 and 26, both of which seem to be in the high quality range of this allegedly deep draft.

Could it be that Jason Taylor has identified a few players in that pick 20-30 range that he has a lot of confidence in? He can't spend his whole career picking from 40+, can he?

[Gorgoroth 12,314]

Just now, martin said:

Exactly. Picks 9 & 10 is a fail. Minimum picks 4 & 9. Doubt that we've ever 'won ' a trade deal. Sadly I think we will roll over yet again . Sincerely hope I'm wrong.

Is it a fail if we are trading 10 for May and keeping 9? 

Ill keep my powder dry until it’s done and dusted at the very end of the whole trade period. Not just the Hogan deal.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

16 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I also can't believe we would offer a 1st rounder for May....

I reckon it's 1st for May KK... mayeb also a third thrown in. Depending on how they see their draft. It's deep, so I imagine they want a volume of picks, not necessarily just high ones. Seems like we want to draft extensively too though. So many players leaving.

[Gator 16,891]

The usual hack posters are up in arms.

Two top 10 picks won't be enough for Hogan and one is too much for May.

They never change. 

[martin 727]

4 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

Is it a fail if we are trading 10 for May and keeping 9? 

Ill keep my powder dry until it’s done and dusted at the very end of the whole trade period. Not just the Hogan deal.

Yes it is. May alone is not worth a first rounder.

[ManDee 7,077]

1 minute ago, Dappa Dan said:

Jesus turn on your radio. It's two first rounders. I look forward to your apology. Champ.

So you believe everything in the media. Which 2 - 1st rounders? What are we going to do with them? Why would I need to apologize your chicken little sky is falling attitude is over the top

 I have read the rumours as have you. What is to stop us using the trade to make is better with established players? Would Gaff, May, Preuss, KK make us better? We seem to play better without Hogan. So chill we can end up a better side out of this. Go dees.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

17 minutes ago, Redleg said:

We probably won’t it, will most likely include KK.

If May stays another year and then leaves and say GC finish 16th then GC would get pick 4 as compo. 

We won’t be giving them anything like that and will get another player thrown in most likely.

Which is why we'll trade the earliest of the two picks we get from Freo. Otherwise there's no benefit in it for them trading May this year.

I reckon it'll be Pick 5, future 3rd Rounder & Garlett for May, KK and VFL player (Lockhart).

[Binmans PA 26,029]

1 hour ago, EnterTheDragon said:

$$$$$$$$$$ “KACHING” !!

Might not be the only reason but I’d suggest it’d be the main one. At the end of the day you’re a professional footballer at the elite level for ten years, with the ever present possibility of going down with a buckled knee every time you run out onto the park. 

Make hay while the sun shines. Who can blame him? Few would say they’d knock it back and keep a straight face.

Plus his Mum is there. His only remaining parent. The lad is only 23 and been away from his Mum since he was a teenager. Let’s cut the lad some slack. Good luck to him. We move on.

 

She lives in SA...

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, ManDee said:

So you believe everything in the media. Which 2 - 1st rounders? What are we going to do with them? Why would I need to apologize your chicken little sky is falling attitude is over the top

 I have read the rumours as have you. What is to stop us using the trade to make is better with established players? Would Gaff, May, Preuss, KK make us better? We seem to play better without Hogan. So chill we can end up a better side out of this. Go dees.

What the crap are you talking about? Do you know what forum you're on? The trade forum on a demons website, right? Have you seen the 100 pages of trade scuttlebbutt that have come before you got on here and started talking crap? Do you even know what the subject here is?

And what... your'e gonna say the sheer amount of media furore we've seen over the last week is nothing, are you? Christ, the noise is even louder than when Scully left.

I'll say it a THIRD time, since you seem to have a tough time understanding. 2 first rounders for Jesse ISN'T ENOUGH. You may agree, you may not. I don't care. I suspect no-one does.

If you wanna stick your fingers in your ears and deny that we're not getting the same value as what he represents for us in the future playing 200 more games... or deny that 2 first rounders REGARDLESS of what we flip them for is unders.... then that's fine. At demonland, and other websites... what we do, you see, is we discuss and debate these things. Usually, experienced posters don't cop abuse from clowns who disagree with differing points of view. Usually when we discuss these things, we offer constructive criticism and examples of trends observed in the past. We don't make ourselves feel better by quoting people we disagree with with absolutely no background behind us.

Just to make it clear yet again... I've been commenting for WEEKS now that 2 first rounders isn't enough. It's been on demonland and in the rumour mill that long. When you've followed the thread that long and engaged for that long, feel free to quote me again... With an apology. Otherwise, bother someone else.

[Binmans PA 26,029]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

This reads exactly how I think I should feel - disappointed but circumspect. Jesse has been our symbol of hope and has blossomed in to a fantastic player.

For some reason though I’m just feeling excited by the opportunity. As @ProDeeand others have said, there’s an opportunity for us to use this to actually improve the list further. It also feels like a weight off - the constant speculation over his future has been pretty wearing. 

I hope [censored] supporters don’t boo or abuse him when he lines up for Freo for the first time. He stuck fat through those tough times despite his incredibly tough personal circumstances, and goes when it hurts us far less. For those who like to wail about loyalty, he’s shown it in spades. He goes now because the club has changed its message from “we can’t live without you” to “you can explore opportunities”. He has waited until the expectations of saving the day have been lifted. He’s still a favourite in my eyes.

Further, what I'm about to say may appear convenient now that he's leaving, but his lack of tackle pressure just doesn't fit our forward system.

He's a very good young player and easily in the top 3 KPFs under 25 in the comp. But I back our FD to improve the list here too.

I think it's a hang over of MFCSS for me, but I've always backed him in a Melbourne jumper, however never fallen in love with him like I have Clayton Oliver. I've always felt a slight fear of commitment to him as he has failed to sign that long-term deal that would have put off the constant speculation.

[Frustrated Demon 233]

Good luck to him playing under Ross Lyon.

[Binmans PA 26,029]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

I also can't believe we would offer a 1st rounder for May....

Because he fills a need in our best 22 and we are in our window. FCS. You don't win premierships by playing it safe. Time to win that 13th flag. And as others have said, I doubt it will be as simple as May for a first rounder. It'll likely be May and something else (likely KK) for that first rounder.

Edited September 29, 2018 by A F

[Superunknown 3,311]

Jeez there is some fair dinkum snark here. Not pleasant at all

[old55 21,287]

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

 Some demons supporters (not necessarily you) are desperate to say we didn't get smashed in that deal, and the only evidence is the points... and the fact we have Taylor hitting home runs with later picks like Hunt, Fritta and Spargo (a 2nd/3rd round pick in his hands is worth much more)...

Well the difference between the popular alternative of our 1st + our 2nd and what we did is:

2018 pick 14 & 68

Vs

Spargo, Petty & 2018 pick 43

No points discussion there.

It feels like a win to us right now with Spargo and Petty looking like very good AFL. Constant focus on just the 2018 1st ignores them and the 2018 3rd.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

6 minutes ago, Frustrated Demon said:

Good luck to him playing under Ross Lyon.

That, at least, should be entertaining at first.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Just now, Fifty-5 said:

Well the difference between the popular alternative of our 1st + our 2nd and what we did is:

2018 pick 14 & 68

Vs

Spargo, Petty & 2018 pick 43

No points discussion there.

It feels like a win to us right now with Spargo and Petty looking like very good AFL. Constant focus on just the 2018 1st ignores them and the 2018 3rd.

Yeah. I would argue again though, it comes down to crystal balling. Many good footy-heads I know say petty is nothing, and Spargo is a good little goer but not premiership quality. So much more has to happen before any of these guys start to show payoff... As I type this it's quarter time in a GF and Stephenson has kicked 2. That's literally the level of player you'd need in his first 20 games to start saying it was a success.

[Binmans PA 26,029]

34 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah. I would argue again though, it comes down to crystal balling. Many good footy-heads I know say petty is nothing, and Spargo is a good little goer but not premiership quality. So much more has to happen before any of these guys start to show payoff... As I type this it's quarter time in a GF and Stephenson has kicked 2. That's literally the level of player you'd need in his first 20 games to start saying it was a success.

Premiership quality? What does that actually mean, DD? He's proved himself to be a good little role player in his first season and that includes some real impact in a final or two.

What are you expecting? That every player is an A grade superstar of "premiership quality"? I know you don't think that, so I hope you'll soon see you're simply venting due to coming to grips with Jesse leaving.

Edited September 29, 2018 by A F

[old55 21,287]

4 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

Yeah. I would argue again though, it comes down to crystal balling. Many good footy-heads I know say petty is nothing, and Spargo is a good little goer but not premiership quality. So much more has to happen before any of these guys start to show payoff... As I type this it's quarter time in a GF and Stephenson has kicked 2. That's literally the level of player you'd need in his first 20 games to start saying it was a success.

 In your previous post you claimed we were smashed in the deal.  It doesn't look like that to me.

[What 18,810]

If we get two first round picks for Hogan, what numbers will they be?  

We had better not trade one for May, that would be insane. 

[Ethan Tremblay 28,361]

1 minute ago, Petraccattack said:

If we get two first round picks for Hogan, what numbers will they be?  

We had better not trade one for May, that would be insane. 

Both picks will be top 10. 

[Jibroni 4,050]

1 minute ago, Petraccattack said:

If we get two first round picks for Hogan, what numbers will they be?  

We had better not trade one for May, that would be insane. 

One has to be top 5 otherwise why bother.

[faultydet 7,593]

45 minutes ago, ProDee said:

The usual hack posters are up in arms.

Two top 10 picks won't be enough for Hogan and one is too much for May.

They never change. 

Thank god our footy department are a little more pragmatic than our supporters.

We are in top-up mode trying to win a flag. The club has determined what we need to give ourselves the best chance, and appears to be going for it.

A top 10 pick for May would not faze me in the slightest.

[Binmans PA 26,029]

28 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

If we get two first round picks for Hogan, what numbers will they be?  

We had better not trade one for May, that would be insane. 

Read the thread, HH. It's all been covered.

[ManDee 7,077]

29 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

What the crap are you talking about? Do you know what forum you're on? The trade forum on a demons website, right? Have you seen the 100 pages of trade scuttlebbutt that have come before you got on here and started talking crap? Do you even know what the subject here is?

And what... your'e gonna say the sheer amount of media furore we've seen over the last week is nothing, are you? Christ, the noise is even louder than when Scully left.

I'll say it a THIRD time, since you seem to have a tough time understanding. 2 first rounders for Jesse ISN'T ENOUGH. You may agree, you may not. I don't care. I suspect no-one does.

If you wanna stick your fingers in your ears and deny that we're not getting the same value as what he represents for us in the future playing 200 more games... or deny that 2 first rounders REGARDLESS of what we flip them for is unders.... then that's fine. At demonland, and other websites... what we do, you see, is we discuss and debate these things. Usually, experienced posters don't cop abuse from clowns who disagree with differing points of view. Usually when we discuss these things, we offer constructive criticism and examples of trends observed in the past. We don't make ourselves feel better by quoting people we disagree with with absolutely no background behind us.

Just to make it clear yet again... I've been commenting for WEEKS now that 2 first rounders isn't enough. It's been on demonland and in the rumour mill that long. When you've followed the thread that long and engaged for that long, feel free to quote me again... With an apology. Otherwise, bother someone else.

Wow. Have you answered any of my questions? Yes I acknowledge that you have been commenting here for weeks, so what. One question I would like you to answer. Could the MFC benefit from trading Hogan? I think it is possible. You may not, but as you keep saying this is a forum for discussion, unfortunately it seems that you like what you say but not opposing views. You don't need to repond I have already read your views.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

3 minutes ago, A F said:

Premiership quality? What does that actually mean, DD? He's proved himself to be a good little role player in his first season and that includes some real impact in a final or two.

What are you expecting? That every player is an A grade superstar of "premiership quality"? I know you don't think that, so I hope you'll soon see you're simply venting due to coming to grips with Jesse leaving.

Yeah. That's fair enough to whack me. What I meant was that for many the jury is out on Spargo. A cop out, sure... But I think supporter opinion is often a trend worth monitoring. I like him, and think there's a role... I still worry about his size though, despite his good form. And I think TBH we don't have Harvey on our hands here. He could end up being a bit limited. That's all I'm saying. But yes, at the position we got him, it's solid value. 

2 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

 In your previous post you claimed we were smashed in the deal.  It doesn't look like that to me.

Ah I see. Sorry my bad. I think you have to factor in Lever too though. Two ACLs. For many he's a made man. For me, the jury is still out. I have to see two good years of 22 games before I say "well done" on a trade. I suspect it'll turn out fine, but I also think that on the day of the trade, we paid overs for him, when it comes to what he'll produce. It's only MY opinion this, but I don't think he's going to be Rance. I know most will disagree... but I'm not entirely sold on him just yet. I want food on my plate. AAs, top 5 finishes in B and F. Scalps of superstar forwards... Tangible things like that.