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Not the first time I've made a comment about him, but for those who refuse to believe he is untouchable, I want to bring a few points to the conversation.

As a competent midfielder in the AFL you have to be one of the following two things:

1 - A versatile midfielder who has the right attribute diversity to play anywhere from half-back, midfield to half-forward. Examples: Jones, Lewis, Petracca etc 

2 - A midfielder who has one or two really strong attributes and plays a set position/role in a side week in and week out. That player may be considered a pure inside mid, (Priddis, Kennedy, Ward) or an outsider, (Billy Stretch, Josh Kelly, Shuey, Stephen Hill).

I understand there are also those that are in between. Shuey for instance is a player who I'd consider outside because of his ability to run and carry, but he can also win contested ball and win it well.

Now to my mind, Dom is a pure inside mid. He is a contested ball winner who in the past has displayed really clean hands in close, winning contested ball and an ability to hit the scoreboard. That is his jam. At least it is supposed to be.

However, for a player who plays such a defined and limited role, it's of my opinion that they need to play it at a very high level and consistently.

This is why: 

When Dom doesn't display it consistently, he is an absolute liability on the field due to his weaknesses which are his two-way running ability, agility, speed and field kicking. And the fact that he can't offer anything playing forward or back. Defensively on the outside, he can't do much other than guard space as an inside mid.

As average as Viney has been this year, I still think he offers more. Especially defensively. And please don't give me a tackle count. Anyone can tackle if playing solely as a contested ball winning mid. I'm talking about perceived pressure, chasing, harassing. Viney does these things very well. Oliver similarly but he is also dominating as a ball winner. 

Dom is the odd one out and really I think his position going forward should be questioned given the midfield we've assembled. What we now need is a really classy user. We desperately need someone in the mould of Josh Kelly. 

Unless Dom gets back to his best of 2014 pretty soon, I imagine he'll be back at Casey before long -(injuries aside).

Edited by stevethemanjordan
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Averages 24.8 disposals, 5 tackles and is going at 65% DE. His DE is the lowest of our mids and he's not scoring goals. They are the two things he needs to work on. 

The knocks on his defensive game are a myth. The only way he goes out this season is for his DE. I can't see it being this week.

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1 hour ago, A F said:

Averages 24.8 disposals, 5 tackles and is going at 65% DE. His DE is the lowest of our mids and he's not scoring goals. They are the two things he needs to work on. 

The knocks on his defensive game are a myth. The only way he goes out this season is for his DE. I can't see it being this week.

Look, I know you love stats. But do you watch the games without looking at them?

Why do you give such credit to numbers for one? Tell me the percentage of those numbers that are gathered from short kicks without pressure etc. I'd say they would be half of his possessions.

And no, the defensive pressure is not a myth at all. Defensive pressure consists of more than just the 'tackle stat'. 

He'll play this week because he needs to carry more of the load. We'll have about three to four players playing sore against Essendon if they're not rested. Jones, Viney and Petracca.

Edited by stevethemanjordan
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He's a lot like Trengove who is a slow mover and slow decision maker.  His skills and decision making have been poor also.

He's a shadow of the young Pendlebury he looked like being a few years ago, fingers crossed it's just a lack of a pre-season that is holding him back.

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It's a shame, really.  I felt that two years ago he was ready to take the next step and really become an elite midfielder at the club.  He showed it at times last year, and he certainly knows how to find the footy, but his disposal this year has been terrible and he's not the greatest decision maker around.  Plus this year he hasn't been hitting the scoreboard as much as we would like him to, although you could say that about a few of our mids this year.

I don't think he's untouchable at all, and with the emergence of guys like ANB and Salem through the midfield it certainly puts the pressure on him, which it should.  I still think he can get himself back to his best football but his spot within the side is no longer a guarantee.

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3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No one is untouchable. 

We have improved but still a long way to go

 

I don't think we have that far to go.

The way we play now is really exciting and as has been said an infinite amount of times, 'we play the way the game should be played'.

If you consider how we played in that first quarter against Richmond, we really should have been up by many goals. Our midfield brigade are incredibly ferocious and attack the ball and man with an intent I haven't seen for years at the club and that's been the case since round 1. 

Where we fail miserably is in our execution and meaningful disposal both going inside 50 and from out of defence.

And those two things can be easily fixed with the right additions to the side. Both of those additions must have composure because that's what we're sorely lacking in our defence and through our midfield. An ability to pick that right target and hit it. 

Hibberd is proof that some players have it and others don't. He's come in off the back of one Casey game and a limited pre-season and has put our entire side to shame with his ability to remain composed and hit the right targets at the right time in the wet, in front of 85,000 people..  I saw him get furious with a number of our defenders against Richmond. 

One more quality KP defender with foot-skills and composure and a two-way running midfielder with class and composure and we'll be laughing. This is where I see Tyson being pushed out. We have enough players who can win the ball just as well and as easily as he can now and who also offer a lot more to the team. 

 

Edited by stevethemanjordan
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He had no pre season I expect his second half of the season to be better than it is now, he is still getting over 20 disposals a game so hasn't been that bad 

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6 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

I don't think we have that far to go.

The way we play now is really exciting and as has been said an infinite amount of times, 'we play the way the game should be played'.

If you consider how we played in that first quarter against Richmond, we really should have been up by many goals. Our midfield brigade are incredibly ferocious and attack the ball and man with an intent I haven't seen for years at the club and that's been the case since round 1. 

Where we fail miserably is in our execution and meaningful disposal both going inside 50 and from out of defence.

And those two things can be easily fixed with the right additions to the side. Both of those additions must have composure because that's what we're sorely lacking in our defence and through our midfield. An ability to pick that right target and hit it. 

Hibberd is proof that some players have it and others don't. He's come in off the back of one Casey game and a limited pre-season and has put our entire side to shame with his ability to remain composed and hit the right targets at the right time in the wet, in front of 85,000 people..  I saw him get furious with a number of our defenders against Richmond. 

One more quality KP defender with foot-skills and composure and a two-way running midfielder with class and composure and we'll be laughing. This is where I see Tyson being pushed out. We have enough players who can win the ball as well and as easily as he can now and who also offer a lot more to the team. 

 

Pure hypothetical, but does Tyson have enough currency to help us land the those types of players?  I still think he is young enough to garner something decent in return at the very least, but I'm not sure the FD would pull the trigger on such a trade.

Spot on about Hibberd too, Steve.  

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With Lewis back this week hopefully Dom + others start to work as a team and put a few wins on the board?

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I like Tyson and he can be a damaging inside mid. His point of difference I think is his goal kicking, has kicked 16 and 11 in previous seasons and he needs to increase this - he has a great knack of snapping a quick goal from a stoppage which is like gold

But he has been poor by his standards.  pressure has been poor, disposal too. Ave only 3 clearances and 8.5 contested possessions. 1%, inside 50s, goals all down

Im backing him to bounce back as we need him. Wouldn't drop him at this stage

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1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No one is untouchable. 

We have improved but still a long way to go

Gawn says hello. 

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Just now, Redleg said:

Gawn says hello. 

I reckon Clarrie would be waving at him as well.

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2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Not the first time I've made a comment about him, but for those who refuse to believe he is untouchable, I want to bring a few points to the conversation.

As a competent midfielder in the AFL you have to be one of the following two things:

1 - A versatile midfielder who has the right attribute diversity to play anywhere from half-back, midfield to half-forward. Examples: Jones, Lewis, Petracca etc 

2 - A midfielder who has one or two really strong attributes and plays a set position/role in a side week in and week out. That player may be considered a pure inside mid, (Priddis, Kennedy, Ward) or an outsider, (Billy Stretch, Josh Kelly, Shuey, Stephen Hill).

I understand there are also those that are in between. Shuey for instance is a player who I'd consider outside because of his ability to run and carry, but he can also win contested ball and win it well.

Now to my mind, Dom is a pure inside mid. He is a contested ball winner who in the past has displayed really clean hands in close, winning contested ball and an ability to hit the scoreboard. That is his jam. At least it is supposed to be.

However, for a player who plays such a defined and limited role, it's of my opinion that they need to play it at a very high level and consistently.

This is why: 

When Dom doesn't display it consistently, he is an absolute liability on the field due to his weaknesses which are his two-way running ability, agility, speed and field kicking. And the fact that he can't offer anything playing forward or back. Defensively on the outside, he can't do much other than guard space as an inside mid.

As average as Viney has been this year, I still think he offers more. Especially defensively. And please don't give me a tackle count. Anyone can tackle if playing solely as a contested ball winning mid. I'm talking about perceived pressure, chasing, harassing. Viney does these things very well. Oliver similarly but he is also dominating as a ball winner. 

Dom is the odd one out and really I think his position going forward should be questioned given the midfield we've assembled. What we now need is a really classy user. We desperately need someone in the mould of Josh Kelly. 

Unless Dom gets back to his best of 2014 pretty soon, I imagine he'll be back at Casey before long -(injuries aside).

What a load of dribble, he's had an interrupted pre season, has been one of most consistent players since he joined the club.The people in the know seem to regularly have him there about in the B&F

 

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39 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

I don't think we have that far to go.

The way we play now is really exciting and as has been said an infinite amount of times, 'we play the way the game should be played'.

If you consider how we played in that first quarter against Richmond, we really should have been up by many goals. Our midfield brigade are incredibly ferocious and attack the ball and man with an intent I haven't seen for years at the club and that's been the case since round 1. 

Where we fail miserably is in our execution and meaningful disposal both going inside 50 and from out of defence.

And those two things can be easily fixed with the right additions to the side. Both of those additions must have composure because that's what we're sorely lacking in our defence and through our midfield. An ability to pick that right target and hit it. 

Hibberd is proof that some players have it and others don't. He's come in off the back of one Casey game and a limited pre-season and has put our entire side to shame with his ability to remain composed and hit the right targets at the right time in the wet, in front of 85,000 people..  I saw him get furious with a number of our defenders against Richmond. 

One more quality KP defender with foot-skills and composure and a two-way running midfielder with class and composure and we'll be laughing. This is where I see Tyson being pushed out. We have enough players who can win the ball as well and as easily as he can now and who also offer a lot more to the team. 

 

The last step is the hardest

The first Quarter was a perfect dxample

so much energy for little return. 

That energy will run out soon if the wins aren't achieved

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He does need a spell at Casey to work on his fitness, ball use, movement and speed at the contest. Often flat footed when he gets it, is predictable with his attempts to evade and is more easily tackle than in the past..

Might still play however as our other mids look like they are going to pull up sore.

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If these comments were coming from an MFC Coach I would tend to agree but when they come from  a poster who I suspect is not a coach then its trivial.

Just cannot help but wonder what the post would have read like if we had have won on Monday night and Dom was best on ground..

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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2 minutes ago, DEMON DAVID said:

If these comments were coming from an MFC Coach I would tend to agree but when they come from  a poster who I suspect is not a coach then its trivial.

Just cannot help but wonder what the post would have read like if we had have won on Monday night and Dom was best on ground..

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

DEMON David, you can go to http://www.melbournefc.com.au/ for official MFC coaches comments, The forum is for poster / supporters opinions

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Just now, DEMON DAVID said:

If these comments were coming from an MFC Coach I would tend to agree but when they come from  a poster who I suspect is not a coach then its trivial.

Just cannot help but wonder what the post would have read like if we had have won on Monday night and Dom was best on ground..

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

What a stupid comment. If we had won on Monday night and Dom was best on ground nobody would be questioning his contribution. But we didn't and he wasn't, so it reasonable that the performances of senior players are scrutinised.

For me, Dom is one of several key midfielders who is below his best. We can afford to carry one of them, but not three or four as was the case on Monday.

 

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6 minutes ago, DEMON DAVID said:

If these comments were coming from an MFC Coach I would tend to agree but when they come from  a poster who I suspect is not a coach then its trivial.

Just cannot help but wonder what the post would have read like if we had have won on Monday night and Dom was best on ground..

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Do you ever wonder what would've happened if your Aunty was in fact your uncle?

if Don was best on (he wasn't FYI) then I doubt Steve would have raised the point. He did infer there is a role for Tyson if he hits a high level consistently. He's not there yet this season, needs to do better.

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1 hour ago, Billy said:

What a load of dribble, he's had an interrupted pre season, has been one of most consistent players since he joined the club.The people in the know seem to regularly have him there about in the B&F

 

 

54 minutes ago, DEMON DAVID said:

If these comments were coming from an MFC Coach I would tend to agree but when they come from  a poster who I suspect is not a coach then its trivial.

Just cannot help but wonder what the post would have read like if we had have won on Monday night and Dom was best on ground..

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

Cousins?

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Is it any coincidence that Oliver is absolutely blitzing and Viney and Tyson are slightly down?

All inside players 

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Our 4 core mids are all inside biased and IMO lack the agility or burst speed to escape congestion often enough when the ball is won from the inside. Clarry somewhat of an exception here. Results in just another stoppage and not enough yardage gained quickly enough or directly out of the middle to allow our forwards to compete one on one very often. Many of our extractions also end up going backwards or lateral looking for a free player rather than giving to a quick burst outside or inside/outside mid who can go directly forward.

A Danger, a Dusty, Sloane, or a Brad Hill type badly needed I reckon. Yes I know they don't grow on trees!

We also over do the hand ball which hasn't helped with getting enough quick and direct entries IMO. Clarry the biggest offender and the other 3 core mids not far behind. Kick to handball was ugly on weekend especially given the wet weather.

Saty mentioned a few weeks back that they had Viney training to try and improve his burst speed so this might be a sign that the FD is concerned here also and trying to correct the deficiency. I tend to think it's more a personnel problem though rather than working to try and improve what we have.

Need to get ourselves an outside or outside/inside beast for next season. Time to trade.

Edited by Rusty Nails
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You're such a limited football observer if you think Tyson's issues are purely pre-season related.

He can't run, his field kicking is terrible and he is nowhere near aggressive enough. GWS knew which one to let go.

Tyson was great in year 1, when the opposition had no idea who he was, and he was only competing against Nathan Jones as that first-possession midfielder. The opposition now know he's a left footer and that he doesn't have a right side, meanwhile Oliver and Viney have now gone ahead of him and he has no other strings to his bow.

With Lewis back this week, I hope Goodwin sends Tyson back to Casey.  You can't play all our slow mids at Etihad against the lightning fast bombers.

We will almost certainly have to trade one of them out at the end of the year. 

 

 

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