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dazzledavey36

Jack Trengove

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With Pre Season set to finish up id love to hear from the stand out track watchers like DeeSpence and Waynewussell on how the progression of Trengove is going. Could you guys see him playing few senior game because i think deep down we all want Trenners to make it. Would live to know if he has improved his agility and power.

Cheers.

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Its this season or its over . Really hope, both for his and our sake ,that he gets  back  and in a big way. I cant even really imagine the size of the  impact a powerful Trengove could make for us. I stopped including him in my mental teams quite a while back. I have all body parts crossed for him. 

 

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Word from the club is that Trenners isn't going to be spending valuable time trying to rediscover his acceleration. He has instead spent a considerable amount of hours working on his contested ball craft so he can become harder inside where his lack of speed wouldn't be as critical. Trenners presented to the club mid contract negotiations on what he would be doing differently if recontracted. 

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Anyone else hold their breath opening the thread?

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Best 22 thread has a lot of people rating VDB in front of Trenners to which I disagree. 

In my opinion they're contesting a similar role but I'd love to hear others opinions on that.

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23 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

Word from the club is that Trenners isn't going to be spending valuable time trying to rediscover his acceleration. He has instead spent a considerable amount of hours working on his contested ball craft so he can become harder inside where his lack of speed wouldn't be as critical. Trenners presented to the club mid contract negotiations on what he would be doing differently if recontracted. 

Shows the quality in him reading this.

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18 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Best 22 thread has a lot of people rating VDB in front of Trenners to which I disagree. 

In my opinion they're contesting a similar role but I'd love to hear others opinions on that.

Dont think so. VDBs speed is to my mind his key attribute - many on here dont realise his speed and power are key to his spot. Thats why his defensive pressure as a mid or a fwd is very good, aided by his hardness. His skillset is unique among the playing group at his size (kent is the same but small).

Trenners has neither speed or power and if he is to get games it would be at the expense/injury of a tyson/lewis, as our slower 'smart' mids with good endurance. 

VDB has his flaws but when hes firing we usually play well. Anyone who has watched back our wins from the last two years would see this. He and Kent are the barometers.

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46 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Dont think so. VDBs speed is to my mind his key attribute - many on here dont realise his speed and power are key to his spot. Thats why his defensive pressure as a mid or a fwd is very good, aided by his hardness. His skillset is unique among the playing group at his size (kent is the same but small).

Trenners has neither speed or power and if he is to get games it would be at the expense/injury of a tyson/lewis, as our slower 'smart' mids with good endurance. 

VDB has his flaws but when hes firing we usually play well. Anyone who has watched back our wins from the last two years would see this. He and Kent are the barometers.

Many on here might view his speed as being mythical...

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1 hour ago, Dannyz said:

Word from the club is that Trenners isn't going to be spending valuable time trying to rediscover his acceleration. He has instead spent a considerable amount of hours working on his contested ball craft so he can become harder inside where his lack of speed wouldn't be as critical. Trenners presented to the club mid contract negotiations on what he would be doing differently if recontracted. 

Hard to reconcile with the intraclub where he played high half forward and stayed outside the contest at all the stoppages.  He did win possession in space and used it well but he defintely wasnt working inside.

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1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Dont think so. VDBs speed is to my mind his key attribute - many on here dont realise his speed and power are key to his spot. Thats why his defensive pressure as a mid or a fwd is very good, aided by his hardness. His skillset is unique among the playing group at his size (kent is the same but small).

Trenners has neither speed or power and if he is to get games it would be at the expense/injury of a tyson/lewis, as our slower 'smart' mids with good endurance. 

VDB has his flaws but when hes firing we usually play well. Anyone who has watched back our wins from the last two years would see this. He and Kent are the barometers.

He's not that quick and his defensive pressure is hardly as good as you're alluding to. And not having a crack but, saying that he and Kent are barometers for the side to play well is very far fetched. IMO, they only really turn it on when the team plays well - a team effort.

Trengove has a better leap than VDB and I'm willing to say kicks a longer ball. If he can improve his inside work and win more hard ball then I reckon he'd be a more damaging flanker than VDB particularly with the HBF and wingers pressing forward to add more defensive pressure.

 

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I'm really looking forward to the day - and it's coming soon - when Jack's form does it's own talking for him. The last time he was anywhere close to full fitness he was one of our best in a NAB Cup/Challenge game a few years ago when we beat Richmond. I hope he can prove himself again although he is up against some strong opposition for a place in our best 22. 

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9 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I'm really looking forward to the day - and it's coming soon - when Jack's form does it's own talking for him. The last time he was anywhere close to full fitness he was one of our best in a NAB Cup/Challenge game a few years ago when we beat Richmond. I hope he can prove himself again although he is up against some strong opposition for a place in our best 22. 

That was the game where he bought his own ball and looked a cut above pretty much everyone else on the park. Would love to see Jack return to that sort of form.

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10 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I'm really looking forward to the day - and it's coming soon - when Jack's form does it's own talking for him. The last time he was anywhere close to full fitness he was one of our best in a NAB Cup/Challenge game a few years ago when we beat Richmond. I hope he can prove himself again although he is up against some strong opposition for a place in our best 22. 

He was a leading player for SA tac side and was their captain. Hope he recaptures that form. 

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10 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I'm really looking forward to the day - and it's coming soon - when Jack's form does it's own talking for him. The last time he was anywhere close to full fitness he was one of our best in a NAB Cup/Challenge game a few years ago when we beat Richmond. I hope he can prove himself again although he is up against some strong opposition for a place in our best 22. 

Was it a Panasonic Cup match?  Feels like it was that long ago!

(Nb. This is in no way criticising Jack!)

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#: 15   Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, McQueen said:

He's not that quick and his defensive pressure is hardly as good as you're alluding to. And not having a crack but, saying that he and Kent are barometers for the side to play well is very far fetched. IMO, they only really turn it on when the team plays well - a team effort.

Trengove has a better leap than VDB and I'm willing to say kicks a longer ball. If he can improve his inside work and win more hard ball then I reckon he'd be a more damaging flanker than VDB particularly with the HBF and wingers pressing forward to add more defensive pressure.

 

I'll never understand how some watchers can see the opposite of another.

If i had the time or the inclination I would compile a video to prove these points, but I don't. As I said, watch the tapes and you will see. He doesnt get a high tackle count, but his forward pressure is physical - he closes with speed and with power and forces mistakes. He is at least top 10 at the club for speed and his point of difference is he uses it to crash into people, not to run away like a hunt or frost.

I'm actually quite confused - if this isnt VDBs strength what is? He's an average kick at best, not an endurance athlete and whilst he has a good set of hands, they are hardly outstanding. If you cant see his explosiveness I would be keen to understand if you think he has any value at all?

Oh and Macca thinks both he and Kent are barometers and said as much in his updates, but whatever. 'Team effort' is weak language. Every team has individuals who set the bar in physical pressure and gamestyle. Ours are jones, viney, brayshaw (notice when he plays well we win? Barometer), kent, vdb. All because they bring physical pressure, speed and a direct style. Compare this to a vince who can have blinders on days we still lose. He's influential because he's offensive, but he doesnt bring the pressure like the guys above (save one game in Adelaide)

Edited by fr_ap

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49 minutes ago, billy2803 said:

Was it a Panasonic Cup match?  Feels like it was that long ago!

(Nb. This is in no way criticising Jack!)

Perhaps not Panasonic Cup - I think that was around the time when Jack was born.

I have a feeling it was in Paul Roos' first pre season and given the Roos philosophy of ahem ... tanking ... in pre season games, it was a bit of a surprise that we won that particular game.:wub:

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3 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

I'll never understand how some watchers can see the opposite of another.

If i had the time or the inclination I would compile a video to prove these points, but I don't. As I said, watch the tapes and you will see. He doesnt get a high tackle count, but his forward pressure is physical - he closes with speed and with power and forces mistakes. He is at least top 10 at the club for speed and his point of difference is he uses it to crash into people, not to run away like a hunt or frost.

I'm actually quite confused - if this isnt VDBs strength what is? He's an average kick at best, not an endurance athlete and whilst he has a good set of hands, they are hardly outstanding. If you cant see his explosiveness I would be keen to understand if you think he has any value at all?

I'm a VDB fan.  Watching some of last years replays it's interesting how many important passages of play he's involved in.  He's strong and imposing, he's good overhead, he knows how to find the ball and he can play a variety of positions well.Unlike many who "rest forward" he is actually a danger and a difficult match up. Whilst he doesn't have a stand out strength he doesn't have any weaknesses.

And I agree on his pace. The playing group recognize his pace.  He was picked pretty much when fit last year, didn't train much during the week due to his ankle and missed some preseason as well.  Indications are the FD rate him.

Having said all that he is in a serious fight for his spot in the team along with a number of others. Melksham, Hibberd and Lewis have added some real anxiety to the bottom six in the 22.

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36 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

 

I'm actually quite confused - if this isnt VDBs strength what is? He's an average kick at best, not an endurance athlete and whilst he has a good set of hands, they are hardly outstanding. If you cant see his explosiveness I would be keen to understand if you think he has any value at all?

Oh and Macca thinks both he and Kent are barometers and said as much in his updates, but whatever. 'Team effort' is weak language. Every team has individuals who set the bar in physical pressure and gamestyle. Ours are jones, viney, brayshaw (notice when he plays well we win? Barometer), kent, vdb. All because they bring physical pressure, speed and a direct style. Compare this to a vince who can have blinders on days we still lose. He's influential because he's offensive, but he doesnt bring the pressure like the guys above (save one game in Adelaide)

I think VDB will play Casey from mid season onwards.  Other players will go past him IMO, if they haven't already. 

He is a good mark and a pretty reliable kick for goal.  He provides good defensive pressure.  But his skills and decision making are average to poor IMO.

As a half forward he is good at the finishing part, not good in the set-up part.

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1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

I'll never understand how some watchers can see the opposite of another.

If i had the time or the inclination I would compile a video to prove these points, but I don't. As I said, watch the tapes and you will see. He doesnt get a high tackle count, but his forward pressure is physical - he closes with speed and with power and forces mistakes. He is at least top 10 at the club for speed and his point of difference is he uses it to crash into people, not to run away like a hunt or frost.

I'm actually quite confused - if this isnt VDBs strength what is? He's an average kick at best, not an endurance athlete and whilst he has a good set of hands, they are hardly outstanding. If you cant see his explosiveness I would be keen to understand if you think he has any value at all?

Oh and Macca thinks both he and Kent are barometers and said as much in his updates, but whatever. 'Team effort' is weak language. Every team has individuals who set the bar in physical pressure and gamestyle. Ours are jones, viney, brayshaw (notice when he plays well we win? Barometer), kent, vdb. All because they bring physical pressure, speed and a direct style. Compare this to a vince who can have blinders on days we still lose. He's influential because he's offensive, but he doesnt bring the pressure like the guys above (save one game in Adelaide)

Look mate, I think it's a pointless exercise debating the two players given Trengove hasn't had a real good run at it for 3 or more seasons. My initial comment was that in my opinion, the role or maybe the position on the field these guys will be played is going to be hotly contested. I've got a really good feeling that JT can make it back and his training is indicacting that he's finally fit enough to give it a tilt so all we can do is wait and watch it play out.

For now let's just agree to disagree.

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9 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Look mate, I think it's a pointless exercise debating the two players given Trengove hasn't had a real good run at it for 3 or more seasons. My initial comment was that in my opinion, the role or maybe the position on the field these guys will be played is going to be hotly contested. I've got a really good feeling that JT can make it back and his training is indicacting that he's finally fit enough to give it a tilt so all we can do is wait and watch it play out.

For now let's just agree to disagree.

Agree. For what its worth I think we can carry both in the team and dont get me wrong - would love the old Jack to make it back.

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16 hours ago, fr_ap said:

Dont think so. VDBs speed is to my mind his key attribute - many on here dont realise his speed and power are key to his spot. Thats why his defensive pressure as a mid or a fwd is very good, aided by his hardness. His skillset is unique among the playing group at his size (kent is the same but small).

Trenners has neither speed or power and if he is to get games it would be at the expense/injury of a tyson/lewis, as our slower 'smart' mids with good endurance. 

VDB has his flaws but when hes firing we usually play well. Anyone who has watched back our wins from the last two years would see this. He and Kent are the barometers.

I played with Aaron Vandenberg at Ainslie and he is not that quick. Neither he or Trengove has explosive speed to break through packs.

What a lot of people don't realise is that leg speed can be negated by reading of the play. If someone breaks and spreads a kicker in the AFL rarely has a lot of time to make a decision, usually  1-2 seconds. In those 1 to two seconds leg speed is only going to get you so far. But if you have the ability to read a game and understand where the play is going (and Trengove excels at this) you can put yourself in a position where the break from the spread is ineffective. This is what coaches love and is not play that is rewarded but it can potentially stop a quick spread and forces the kicker to change their mind and that can result in a turnover.

Tom Scully is the best example of this. His smarts and 2 way running is why he is so highly rated.

I for one am not worried about Trengove's leg speed. His smarts, professionalism and inside grunt are his assets and I expect to see him feature regularly in our 22 and do well.

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40 minutes ago, True Heart said:

I played with Aaron Vandenberg at Ainslie and he is not that quick. Neither he or Trengove has explosive speed to break through packs.

What a lot of people don't realise is that leg speed can be negated by reading of the play. If someone breaks and spreads a kicker in the AFL rarely has a lot of time to make a decision, usually  1-2 seconds. In those 1 to two seconds leg speed is only going to get you so far. But if you have the ability to read a game and understand where the play is going (and Trengove excels at this) you can put yourself in a position where the break from the spread is ineffective. This is what coaches love and is not play that is rewarded but it can potentially stop a quick spread and forces the kicker to change their mind and that can result in a turnover.

Tom Scully is the best example of this. His smarts and 2 way running is why he is so highly rated.

I for one am not worried about Trengove's leg speed. His smarts, professionalism and inside grunt are his assets and I expect to see him feature regularly in our 22 and do well.

Good post.

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#: 23   Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, True Heart said:

What a lot of people don't realise is that leg speed can be negated by reading of the play. If someone breaks and spreads a kicker in the AFL rarely has a lot of time to make a decision, usually  1-2 seconds. In those 1 to two seconds leg speed is only going to get you so far. But if you have the ability to read a game and understand where the play is going (and Trengove excels at this) you can put yourself in a position where the break from the spread is ineffective. This is what coaches love and is not play that is rewarded but it can potentially stop a quick spread and forces the kicker to change their mind and that can result in a turnover.

 

You have just described Sam Mitchell. (offensively and defensively)

Edited by nutbean

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1 hour ago, True Heart said:

I played with Aaron Vandenberg at Ainslie and he is not that quick. Neither he or Trengove has explosive speed to break through packs.

What a lot of people don't realise is that leg speed can be negated by reading of the play. If someone breaks and spreads a kicker in the AFL rarely has a lot of time to make a decision, usually  1-2 seconds. In those 1 to two seconds leg speed is only going to get you so far. But if you have the ability to read a game and understand where the play is going (and Trengove excels at this) you can put yourself in a position where the break from the spread is ineffective. This is what coaches love and is not play that is rewarded but it can potentially stop a quick spread and forces the kicker to change their mind and that can result in a turnover.

Tom Scully is the best example of this. His smarts and 2 way running is why he is so highly rated.

I for one am not worried about Trengove's leg speed. His smarts, professionalism and inside grunt are his assets and I expect to see him feature regularly in our 22 and do well.

I don't know about that. The way our game plan and most other teams work is that they sling shot the ball from turnovers and that means you need to have speed and power at half forward. In the midfield and at half back you can have smart footballers who run hard not fast, but to break zone backlines you need speed to burn and ability to force and win contests. We don't kick the ball well enough or open space well enough to finesse the ball forward. We need players capable of generating their own space through hard and fast running across half forward.

Wings are about endurance and pace is needed but more so to out run your opponent and break lines with the ball - if you're fast like Isaac Smith you can do that in a tighter space and get out quicker and steady up, if you're slower like a Sidebottom you need more space or sharper skills. Inside mids just have to clock up the kms and not let opponents run away from you at stoppages, so it's more about balance in the rotation.

There's a role for Trengove on ball and as a utility but even without injuries he wasn't quick so he has to show various facets of his game. Suspensions aside he was a very good tackler but not a great clearance player, so I expect that to still be the case. He'll have to have improved his inside game and then he'll have to be strong over head and really good with his ball use. There's a reason the Hawks weren't unhappy pushing Lewis and Mitchell and there's a reason Geelong were desperate to push Bartel. The game is getting faster every year. 

 

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There is an article about Trenners on the MFC website.  He sounds really positive and is clearly a happy player with the Club.  I'm a doubter unfortunately, I don't think he's got his pace back but this little puff piece makes me wonder - and more importantly gives me hope.

It would be fantastic if he could get back to something like his old self - good luck tomorrow Trenners and may you have a great season.  Heaven knows, you deserve it.

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