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This is the biggest week for the MFC since the 2000 GF. I have been muted so no names will be mentioned, but if all goes to plan we will end up with 2 A Graders plus pick 2. The 2 players would enter our list as the 2 best players on our list. Roos may need to settle for a less experienced likely A Grader (a Tyson like) but this is not plan A. Don't be surprised if at least 1 of the players gained has been unmentioned on DL or the media. We are the main player in a massive game of chess. Roos is already a legend, on Thursday evening he may have become a God. A Demon God no less.

A big thank you to all those who contributed to Demonland during the past season and also to everyone who posts here and even to those who visit but don't post. We value your contributions and ongoing support - especially to Nasher who keeps us going on the technical side, our moderators whose task is often thankless - especially so when we go through a season such as the last few we've experienced. Particular thanks to our regular contributors, Whispering Jack, George on The Outer, The Oracle, JVM, KC from Casey and all others. Once again they have had to report on games and subjects that have been difficult to write about in 2014 because of our club's lack of on field success. We are all hoping for a bigger and better season in 2015 and that the stories and news we bring you will be more uplifting and exciting than those gone by in recent times. We are always looking out for new contributors who have something to say about the mighty Demons. If you want to contribute an article feel free to contact me via PM. Cheers & thanks again. Andy And a big happy birthday to Nasher ... WJ says 31 is a big number for all Demons. May it be so for you.

I am absolutely certain that I haven't got the slightest idea what is going on.

I think I have it. North Ballarat colours are black and white They're known as the ROOSTERS Roosters are big birds Lucas Cook plays for North Ballarat No wait ...

In that case.

Can't be DH. Roos has a no DH policy

GNF gives 1 cryptic clue and you all lose your minds he must be laughing his arse off, sad part of it all is I keep refreshing the bloody page

This is ridiculous, I'm going to bed early just so tomorrow arrives quicker.

THE TEMPEST by Whispering Jack "There be some sports are painful, and their labour Delight in them sets off. Some kinds of baseness Are nobly undergone, and most poor matters Point to rich ends. This my mean task Would be as heavy to me as odious, but The mistress which I serve quickens whats dead And makes my labours pleasures." William Shakespeare ~ The Tempest We are in the eye of a storm whipped up by a magician. After living in exile on a desolate and remote island for many years while plotting the restoration and return to our rightful place in the universe, the time and the opportunity for resurrection has arrived. The magician has created a storm borne of stuff far beyond the rabbit-in-a-hat; it transcends and envelopes everything - friend and foe, mankind and alien, stardust and shining lights from distant stars, the end and the beginning of the cosmos. A little dramatic perhaps, but in recent times we must have been awakened to the realisation that the Melbourne Football Club needs to be shaken dramatically to its foundations to save it from itself. A firm new direction and radical list changes are exactly what that old Lion, Paul Roos is bringing us, not quietly but with a roar and his unique brand of magic. We were all shaken when we heard the club was entertaining a trade of a loyal young man who was our youngest captain and once a member of a group that constituted our hope for the future. He lost so much in recent years carrying the heavy mantle of leadership through torrid times, carrying injuries and in more hushed tones, the possible repercussions of a brief, tenuous and innocent connection with Stephen Dank, the same man who is today bringing down the Essendon Football Club. We were all shaken when we heard that Mitch Clark, who retired early in the year as a result of the terrible illness of depression after only 15 games in three seasons, was well enough to come back to play football but had turned his back on our club and wanted to go elsewhere. We were all shaken when the sad news broke of the passing at a young age of our club legend Robbie Flower, who had been battling cardiomyopathy for a decade. We recalled his skills and grace on the field, his gentlemanly conduct and demeanour off it. I mean no disrespect to him and I once discussed this very thing with Robbie so I know he understood he played a team game and that his individual glory was always overshadowed by the fact he never tasted the game's ultimate success. That sniper from Carlton, David Rhys Jones, once belted Robbie senseless in a cowardly act on the MCG turf and he copped it sweet, shrugging it all off as if it were nothing. However, his adversary can look back on his career and be known as a premiership player. Rhys Jones' team has won eight flags since Robbie's won its last (and that came nine years before his career started). The question on our lips back then and again now, is whether we have been too comfortable with the image of nice individuals without showing the hardness necessary to succeed in a tough competition like the AFL? The magician is attempting without apology to change the mould of recent years that have seen us stranded on football's desert island. There must be no more nice guys; no more bruise-free football; no more inconsistency of attitude and lack of desire for the football; no more cancelation of training sessions to suit tired playing members of Gen Y; no more 186. I am not singling out individuals but rather, the general mindset which allows the club to be seen as a joke, a sporting basket case. Roos is conjuring up his tempest around a club that mustered up only four wins in this past season and ten in the past three. It's the only way left to go. We are in the eye of that storm but when the tempest subsides, we will land back home fifty years since our last premiership but ready for the next part of the journey. As in Shakespeare's last play, it will be up to us, the audience, to show our approval or otherwise at the finish. I hope it all ends with applause. Sunday, 12 October, 2014 on ABC1 at 10.17pm Tempest at the Drop-in Narrated by Eric Bana, this programme follows mentally ill and socially isolated members of the community as they stage a professional production of Shakespeare's The Tempest alongside professional actors. The programme is being screened as part of Mental Health Week and features community members who receive loving care at Prahran Mission's St. Kilda Drop In centre. Every person has the right to a decent life. Prahran Mission

Meantime GNF is reading this and laughing. Drops a bomb while we all spend the next 6 days trying to resolve a riddle like a bunch of losers.

GNF is doing riddles now? This is too much

Black & White - Collingwood Not a small bird - Turkey (Wild Turkey bourbon) Bourbon - Jim Beam Dayne Beams. Simples.

I've has some inside info in the past (those days are long gone) and was never tempted to post them. As much as it's a bit of fun for this website it would mean betraying the trust of someone, it's just not worth it. I'm also enjoying the fact that this new club of ours doesn't leak like a sieve.

P.s. Apolagise for Tyson ya fl-og!

Either Dane Swan Or Phil Ostrich

I woudn't have a clue but it looks like my productivity will slip again this week.

And look how that ended up..

Dom Tyson showed a lot less and we used pick 2 on him. Coniglio potential could be far greater then Tyson. I would do it in a heartbeat. I rate him very highly.

Great, so I've gone from refreshing the paddy Dangerfield thread to this one... Better tell the boss she has to work twice as hard next week.

Hi Damien Barrett, here's a scoop for you, Melbourne pick 2+3 for Zac Dawson to cover the loss of Frawley.

Some of us believe Trengove can play good football at our club In my case, it has nothing to do with any bias - I simply believe he can overcome his foot issue and play good football. I saw enough of him in his first 2 years to have that view. I also believe that the only reason that Trengove's form dropped off is because of his foot issue. Loyalty is still a big factor in a footy club despite the increase in player movement and I admired the stance that McKenzie took a few years ago and, ... I don't put him down like some others do. Grimes is another player who I don't want to discard. Like many of our players, both McKenzie & Grimes have deficiencies in their game but I always believe a player can improve - anytime. Of the three, Trengove has far greater upside.

Rob loved days like today. He probably would have thought it a tad hot for footy, but would have played and dominated, anyway. His greatest pastime on days like to day would be cooking a BBQ for family and friends, playing golf, or on his boat catching a few "Flatties" and maybe the odd "Schnapper" in Port Phillip bay, or just shooting the breeze on his sundeck at Sorrento. Rob was at his happiest when you were happy, it seemed as if by some magical formula he had the "knack" of making you feel as if you were the most important person at that moment he was speaking to you. He loved his family and he loved and valued his friends! Charismatic people have this gift. Some use it for gain, and power, Rob used his charisma because he was genuinely interested in you and your family. Yes Rob was a "Superstar" footballer Bernie Quinlan so rightly said yesterday. But Above and Beyond he was a "Mega Superstar" person! Is this not a better, more substantially satisfying legacy to leave? In private life he was a generous with his time and expertise, as he appeared in public life. I have seen and been lucky enough to witness the way he gently and compassionately met people who at the conclusion of an interaction walked away much happier for the experience. Floating on air is as real as an experienceI have seen and been a part of, and just as euphoric! Just ask any who met him and knew him. I count myself extremely lucky and enriched by knowing him as a friend and mentor! The Euphoria stayed with you and lingered on and on. Over the 35 odd years I have known the man, I have been extremely fortunate to have been welcomed into part of the fabric of his life. He had many "Brothers" in arms and his own two brothers, Tom and Jim must have thought that they had won tattslotto every day of their lives having him as a brother. I can tell you he felt the same way about them! A more gentle, humble, empathic, generous, self effacing, humorous, genuine person you could not find than Rob Flower. I was at his funeral yesterday, and I will be at his public funeral tomorrow. Each time I look up at the sky on a clear night I will seek out the brightest star. If all stars represent great people, then Rob's star will surely be the brightest! With more people like Rob Flower in the world, it would be a more sensational place to be! Vale Rob Flower, a shining light in my life, never forgotten, always remembered "No Regrets" Thanks mate

For mine, though I consider Trengove to be well above average on the 'good bloke' scale, that's not really why I don't like the thought of this trade. Trengove's career has been tough. Drafted into one of the worst sides in history. Played under a coach who wasn't very good. Was there for 186. His second coach was worse than the first. The complete lack of leadership on the list forced him to be put into the captaincy role (youngest ever AFL captain). He wasn't very good at it. He's (potentially) carried OP/foot injuries for a year or more. Was part of the worst side since the MFC of 2008-2009. If ever there was a player who hasn't been given the chance to just develop and play, it's him. And we're now considering releasing him for what may well be nothing more than moving from 23 to 12. An 18-year-old with pick 12 is a risk. Just as much, if not more, than keeping Trengove. Trengove is also 23, and therefore approaching his prime and his true age for leadership. Yes, he might not improve at all on what we've already seen and that means he won't be part of our next flag. But you could say the exact same thing for whoever we take at 12. These are the thoughts in my head at the moment and unless there is some sort of certainty as to on-trading 12 for a GWS star, or Dangerfield, or Beams maybe, then I really don't like the idea of this trade. Moving from 23 to 12 at the draft doesn't make it worthwhile

summed it up well there Bigred.....we actually know nothing

In total disbelief when I first heard the news - feelings of such disappointment that our club would even consider trading a player who has been so loyal and also so central to our belief that we could rise up the ladder once again. I feel like we've been waiting so long to get a few new recruits in and a few more preseasons under everyone's belt and then 'we'll be fine' - we'll see 'improvement'. The same goes for Trenners - we've been holding out hope year after year that this will be his big step forward, that finally he'll overcome his injuries, get back out on the park and really make a name for himself as we all thought that he would after his first season and a half. But for a number of reasons, most of which I put down to horribly bad management of a very young man on our behalf and also on a personal level for himself - simple bad luck - things just haven't happened the way we had all envisaged oh so many years ago. Trenners has been a beacon of hope for myself over the last 4 years - stayed loyal when everything went belly up, has been a true clubman in the way he has represented the club. And all of this when he is still only now 23 (?). I've read virtually 95% of the posts on here over the past 30 hours or so since the story broke and I'm no closer to knowing how I truly feel about losing a person of this quality from our club. The thing that makes this hard is that we know what qualities he brings to the club on a personality/character level but we're all still so unsure about the actual quality of the player he can be. If he remains as the player he has been in the past 2 seasons then Yes I'd probably trade. But if we believe he's past all his issues due to the diagnosis and surgery of this year (and to a certain extent is owed an opportunity to prove it) - then I'd prefer to keep him as the player he was at 19/20 years of age had so much upside. Like all of us I desperately want us to improve so I'm open to all possibilities - but at the end of the day I just hope we get this one right. We've had too many FD decisions come back to bite us - it can't keep happening.

Agree again 'Macca'. With Trengove I think the management/coaching issue was that he felt the need to play through his injuries. This should have been sorted much earlier and he could have been back on track this year. Too much pressure was placed on this kid way to early. There is no doubt Trengove's take off speed and power were badly effected in the last couple of years and he shouldn't of had to play when good old blind Freddie and some of us on here could see something wasn't right.

Well he was a Melbourne supporter *insert cliched groans*

Sorry, but I had to laugh at this. It's actually a very good attempt but for some reason it made me laugh

not a bad trade Pick 2 an 3 are not guaranteed to be good players and Zac Dawson is an experienced defender that fills a need WIll be interesting to see if this deal pans out

Swans can either be white or black, and are a large bird. Do I win a prize?

My mind is constantly full of fantasies - trade week or not!

From BF, Devastating Boris (Melbourne supporter)

Luke Molan is making a comeback?

Ain't footy a funny game. All season I read bile spewed forth at our players like Grimes and McKenzie who have shown as much good guy and loyalty as Trengove and yet out of season there are those who are threatening to burn their memberships if Trenners is traded. And one poster suggested comparing Trenners loyalty to McKenzie's wasn't relevant because Trenners was a better player. So much for supporter loyalty. Really reading DL can do your head in sometimes. And secondly I can't find a post that talks about what would be best for Trenners, just that we shouldn't let him go because he's got blue sky and loyal. If Trenners now says he is happy to go I wonder what all the loyalist will say. What many are missing is the move to Richmond may be the best thing for the footballer, the one you want to "reward" for his loyalty by keeping him. Talk about killing with kindness.

+ 1, big thanks and much appreciated for us Dees who live outside of Victoria

People need to stop referring to the past and how we stuffed up picks etc. Our development of those players was terrible, not necessarily the picks. George Stone and co have the runs on the board in nthe development of players so I have full trust that whoever we pick for whatever reason will be great players for the Dees!

I think Elwood's referring to the witches in the opening scene of Macbeth because he knows I once played the role of one of them in my school days as a character assassin actor (also played the soothsayer in JC). I think if I was doing a rewrite of The Tempest I would make more of the character in the play Ariel (in the bible Ariel was the lion and we all know Roosy started off a Lion). On a serious note, please do watch the programme on the ABC tonight for a fascinating insight into the work of the Prahran Mission with the homeless and the mentally ill. Those on the site who have bagged Mitch Clark might have second thoughts watching it. Disclosure: I am a member of the Development Committee for the Mission and we're trying to raise funds for the drop in centre ... but please watch the film and take in the message of the story it presents.

Won't happen, he's scared of heights and won't go near the 10m platform.

I think we have to accept that loyalty in the game means something entirely different in this day and age to what it meant a decade ago and what it meant 30 and 40 years ago. We can't accept sentiment in a game where the players now have a strong union, are well paid and have a say in the structure of trading and drafting rules. We are seeing contracts torn up, boards, coaches and players removed suddenly and all in the interests of the good of the club. We therefore have to sit back and accept that player movement of the sort we are seeing this year is now a fact of life. In Jack Trengove's case I agree that, apart from the club's interests, a move by the player will also benefit him. Coming off his foot injury, Jack would be under far less pressure elsewhere given that these things take time. I do believe that something much bigger is afoot than an attempt to secure a youngster with pick 12. That proposition goes against what we've heard from Roos in the past and against logic. So we will sit back and wait for things to happen this week and nothing should surprise us.

I like Lever's 1 min @ 17 years old more than a number of other highly regarded kids this year, looks a natural to me!!

You do know how to make a grand entrance GNF I'll be deeply saddened to see Trenners go, but you are making it sound alot more bearable.

Fresh people may not make an ounce of difference with regards to picking top end talent from the draft. Our top end draft picks from the past were almost universally accepted as the best picks (I'm specifically talking about our top 5 picks) Those who want to continually blame those who were picking those universally accepted picks are continually ignoring what the actual truth is - that the draft is flawed and is largely a lottery. Many here have convinced themselves that Petracca & Brayshaw will be stars but those same people "probably" say the same thing every year about the "popular" picks. I guess if it's said enough times, they're bound to get a few right. I expect our club and other clubs to continue to pick "busts" because of the nature of the draft. It stands to reason. There are no guarantees when picking top end speculative prospects - no matter who is picking them.

The problem is we don't know Lever will be there at that pick so I wouldn't think it the reason for the trade.

If that's the case then throw in Tapscott.

Very conflicted like many on here. Just a terrific young bloke with a decent head on his shoulders and has faced up to everything manfully.

Hawthorn won a premiership in 2013 despite the speculation about Buddy's future in his free agent season but Walsh will really be up against it next year if all three of Adelaide's FA's stay at the club and delay their final decisions untiI the end of the season. With the notable exception above, these sagas tend to be destabilising because they are continually brought up when the team and players aren't doing well so if he has three players under the spotlight, it will really test a novice coach. Although I remain highly sceptical about our ability to prise Dangerfield away from the Crows, I think this is something they will have to think long and hard about in the unlikely event that Danger indicates he wants to leave. That, together with the fact they will not get better compensated if he goes next year.

Just spoke to Paddy. Said, he'll only sign if this thread reaches 150 pages. Wanted to test the true passion of supporters before committing to the club.

As requested I have copy and pasted this post over to this thread. As requested I'll provide a write up on my take of the Thymosin beta 4 over the coming week. Originally posted here: http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37454-afl-involved-in-port-adelaideessendon-draft-rort/page-7 ------ As I made it clear on here a couple times, I am a Biochemist. I have spent years and years working in a lab and going through the scientific literature, although my work and field revolves around cancer or more specifically the processes and mechanisms of cancer invasion. So when the names of the agents or peptides were released the first thing I did was look them up on the appropriate databases where they would have been originally published in peer reviewed journals (PubMed, Web of Science, etc.) - Not Google which cites websites created by the likes of you and I. So with regards to my scientific background it's actually quite easy for me to read the scientific literature (on new or different drugs) and incorporate or adapt my broad understanding of the molecular signalling pathways (of a cell) that contribute to a range of physiological functions within the body (e.g. muscular hypertrophy and lipolysis). Now aside from the concepts of "cheating" or "lack of governance" - for what the Essenond football club has been punished for, what has concerned me far more is the simple fact that very little is known about the long term effects of these drugs. The drugs injected have been poorly characterized and like that of AOD-9604 potentially carcinogenic. For example the peptide (a small sequence of amino acids - the natural building blocks of proteins) AOD-9604 was designed to mimic the active site of the Human Growth Hormone (HGH) that has been scientifically supported on numerous occasions to increase the risks of cancer with those that use it in an overexpressed fashion (like that of gym junkies, not necessarily those with a deficiency). (NOTE: Active site = part that interacts with the receptor, in this case the cellular growth factor receptor (GFR) that initiates an internal (cellular) signalling cascade) Originally the general design concept behind AOD-9604 was to develop a form of the HGH with fewer side effects by essentially removing the overall protein and other protein-protein interactive sites to only leave the region that performs it's main function - the "active site", this could potentially be a welcome addition for those requiring HGH supplementation due to a deficiency. However, the links to the HGH and cancer are most likely due to the overexpression of the downstream GFR pathways - not the additional regulatory regions of the protein, so there is probably a similar trend with AOD-9604. Although "probably" is just as much the problem, the fact is we don't know enough about the long term side effects of it, and Essendon chose to inject the players whilst going against the opinions of the club doctor and other medicos (those most highly qualified) potentially putting the players long term health at risk. Whether ASADA sent an email confirming or denying it on the band substances list is beside the point, alternatively Mark "Bomber" Thompson's claims that it doesn't cause cancer is a blatant lie, he has no clue. Now lets get onto the injection of pig brain lysate the alleged biochemist Dank stated he used on the players. First things first it's from a pig, in no way will this give any form of performance enhancement, it will only increase the bodies natural immune response to generate antibodies as it's from a foreign organism (pig/ porcine) and again place the players at risk of developing long term health issues like prion disease (e.g. mad cows disease and kuru) as it's raw brain extract. Secondly to that this tells me Dank is and never was a biochemist like myself or my colleges, even the earliest of biochemists (honours students) would learn and pick up on something like this quite quickly within their starting careers. At the very most I can presume Dank has himself a degree in Science where he majored in Biochemistry - most likely graduating with D's, he has then gone to the Essendon football club, gained authority and injected the players with a number of poorly characterized and hazardous substances. This is the equivalent of getting a kid out of high school having done year 12 wood work and putting him on a building site as the foreman. So there again is that lack of governance that Essendon has been punished for but what's worse is the lack of duty of care and long term well being of the players health that no the club has not been properly punished for. So it is my opinion that Paddy Ryder and any other player at the club can exercise their right to terminate their contract with the Essendon football club as they did not maintain their duty of care by placing the players long term health at risk, this must occur in every workplace across the country. Essendon should consider itself lucky that they are getting any form of trade as he can simply walk out, become a free agent and Essendon would be powerless to gain any form of compensation.