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Haven't spent much time on Demonland over the offseason, or at all in the big scheme of things. I came back here the other day to see what others thought of a few things I noticed watching the scratch match against Richmond. Good Lord people, what's happened to us? By "Us" I mean Demon supporters as a whole, on every platform. I truly believe it's never been this bad. The infighting, gossip, completely unfounded rumours and trash talk is completely ruining what used to be a few different places to dribble a bit of [censored] about the footy no matter the result. Yes we whinged, moaned and lamented but it was fairly good natured (for the most part) and the team still had our full backing. Offseason was rough, agreed? It's been a pile on of monumental proportions. Coming at the club from every angle. It's been hard to listen to. From the 24/7 media cycle blaring it into our skulls to opposition supporters gleefully rubbing it in our faces. Well, I'm sorry but it's not going away soon, get used to it. The more we react the louder they become. Why do you think the club doesn't say much? Anything they say is twisted and turned and dissected on radio shows endlessly. It's easier to just say nothing. We are already arguing about how [censored] the 2024 season is going to be! WTF!? WE HAVEN'T PLAYED A GAME YET! Guess what? We are going to lose games. Unfortunately that is just the reality. We will lose games. Some honourable losses but also some horrible losses to teams that have no right to play as good as they do against us. But, we will win some as well. The boys will dig deep and get us across the line in spectacular fashion and make us leap out of our chairs and scream with joy. There will be horrible wins as well, just scraping across the line against someone that we were all confident we could relax for. That's footy. Highs and lows, the agony and ecstasy of sport in general. We achieve nothing by fighting amongst ourselves. By all means, let's have constructive debate over how we can make the team better, who belongs where on the field, who's played well or not. Let's not get too carried away with the off field stuff. That's for the club and players to worry about. We are supporters, our job is to support. We cannot do that when we are spending our time endlessly and viciously arguing over things we cannot control. Let's unite, support our boys (and girls), let them know that we are still here, despite all the outside noise. Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Had an hour up my sleeve before the boss came in. Probably just screaming into the void. I love you all. I love this team. C'mon Dee's.

Sorry Sam, I am not on the same page. I love diversity and the variety of opinions, this site can bring. The spectrum is a natural expression of the real world. Those who want, have, need a contrary, abrasive, rebellious view, are at least a balance and at worst a laugh. Protagonist need an antagonistic to cause some entertainment, and be thought provoking. We will never be on the same page as individuals, and expressing that we should or could, leads to oppression and banality.

Great post sammy. I'm with you all the way. The fugazi? Bring it i say. Having supported the dees all my life the natural default is the media, friends and other footy fans bagging and ridiculing us. The snow jokes are oh so funny. Oh and do go on about volvos, cheese boards and golf clapping. Bring it i say. I've got my fair share of puerile needling from mates all preseason. Bring it i say. Let the media pile on. Let them them run with their click bait narrative. We're an easy mark. Bring it i say. Lets not confuse our chances of winning a flag and our our love for the club. For true supporters the two have nothing to do with each other. Anyone who posts on Demonland is by definition a supporter and cares for the club. Let the haters, hate. Avoid feeding the negativity and buying into the medias narrative and agendas And lets keep this thread focused on unity. Bring it i say.

I 100% agree with the bolded bit I'd add that it is possible to post constructive criticism of the club AND be positive about our chances. And that's the sort of analysis i prefer - ie balanced and not tilted to extremes. For example i have been very bullish about our chances in the last 3 seasons, but have also been very critical of our kicking skills (as i have been for many years). In my opinion our kicking skills was the number one reason we didn't finish higher than 4th (if say we finished first or second we would have played Port or the Lions at the G week one) and lost our two finals. But as an example of how I assess our chances and look for areas of improvement, one of the reasons i am bullish about our chances this season is that the club has actively looked to address this glaring weakness over the last few seasons. In 2023 they brought in Hunter, in large part because of his foot skills and they drafted the Juddster for the same reason. Ditto for Sestan. This year they traded in Billings becuase he is an excellent kick and IMO is a lock for round one. And they traded in McAdam who is another excellent kick. They drafted the Duke, who by all accounts is a brilliant kick, another lock for round one. And the Colt is another draftee with excellent foot skills. If Salem and Bowser both get a good run at it and get back to their best, Laurie cements himself in the side, Billings and Windsor come into the team, we have added five elite kicks to the team. I'd include JVR as an elite kick and Hunter and Koz both close to elite. So if all those players are in the side we have 8 elite or above average kicks. That's as many as the Pies have. Added to that, based on his beautiful kicking against the tigers, Viney appears to have once again improved his kicking after definitely doing so last season. Suddenly one of the clear advantages the Pies and Lions (and port and the Giants for that matter) had over us last season is negated, or at the least minimised. Hence my confidence we will finish top four.

I wholeheartedly agree with this messaging of unity between fans and getting behind the club. Please use this thread to offer similar sentiments. Please do not use this thread to bring up any off-field issues relating to the board or our players. Thank you.

And you call me rude. Here's an idea...mind your own business. I am just as devoted a fan as you are, despite our different perspectives. I'm looking forward to the trip & game regardless of the result. I wouldn't ever tell you not to do something you're looking forward to. Acknowledging the challenges in front of us is not sooking. Discussing those challenges in a thread specifically about them is relevant. Mentioning that some of us saw the same challenges a few months ago is also relevant. Sorry if it's a touchy subject. If you don't like what other people have to say, stay off the internet. I respect what you bring to the forum, all you do for the the club and your positivity. The club needs all of that. It also needs others who will put it under pressure when required. Some threads, like training updates that you contribute to, are fun and optimistic. Other threads like this are to discuss what isn't, or might not be going quite as well. Likewise, I genuinely respect Binman's contributions and devotion. But I don't always agree with it, and think particularly when we lose there are some pretty amazing mental gymnastics on show trying to justify, excuse or explain away what are very simply, poor performances or better opposition teams. I'm pretty sure I saw the "loading" excuse trotted out in 2nd quarter on Sunday. In a practise match. In February. That same excuse will probably be used in rounds 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17, 19 and 21. I don't agree with it. It's tiresome. Strong clubs don't look for excuses and don't make apologies - they own it, like Trac did in the recent podcast. We did this under Roos and from all accounts, did this in early 2021 when the players took ownership. Our club needs more of that, not more excuses or long-winded explanations that blame the faceless fitness gods or the incredible improbability of losing a final with double the number of inside 50s.

There would be very, very few posters on here that are not passionate Dee’s supporters. Surely that’s unification. However all of us have different opinions at times, and certainly different ways of expressing ourselves, which is to be expected, and it is what I enjoy about this site. This does not reflect disunity. As long as the banter is respectful (which at times it isn’t) then go for it I say.

You misspelt Cash Converters.

The decision not to discuss the Joel Smith case on Demonland stems from several key considerations outlined below: Respect for Privacy: The decision emphasizes the sensitive and private nature of Joel Smith's situation. Out of respect for him and the club, it's inappropriate to speculate about him on a personal level or cast aspersions regarding his circumstances. This highlights a broader ethical concern about respecting individuals' privacy, especially when it involves potentially sensitive or confidential matters. In addition we do not want Demonland to be used as a platform for rumourmongering or to spread misinformation. Ignoring Established Rules: Initially we established some rules to discussing the Joel Smith case and despite a clear set of boundaries some users disregarded these guidelines and engaged in discussions that strayed beyond the permitted topics. Discussion of Serious Topics: We do not take these serious issues effecting the club and this decision to curb discussion of these topics lightly. We of course believe that these serious matters affecting the club that we all love and are all so passionate about are worthy of discussion and debate. I wish we could provide a platform where these matters can be discussed in a civil and respectful manner. Potential Legal Ramifications: Discussions on sensitive topics such as these unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion and debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame and personal attacks. The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners and it’s users to legal action and may result in this website being forced to shutdown. Whether users believe that a website can be held liable for comments posted on them is immaterial to me. I simply do not want to test that out and the threat of litigation stemming from some sensitive topics has had a severe impact on my own mental health and is a very big factor in this decision. Moderation Challenges: Moderators on Demonland are volunteers and cannot monitor discussions around the clock. The inability to consistently and in a timely manner enforce rules and address violations effectively can contribute to an environment where inappropriate discussions proliferate unchecked. This underscores the practical challenges of managing online communities, especially when dealing with sensitive topics. Closure and Reporting: As a result of the above Demonland has decided to close threads and discussions related to the Joel Smith case. Additionally, users are encouraged to report any comments about the case found in other threads so that moderators can take appropriate action. We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct. This approach aims to mitigate the spread of unauthorized discussions and maintain the integrity of the platform. WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 24 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT. We will continue to provide updates on the situation in this thread but please do not engage in discussion about it anywhere else on this website. We understand the desire to discuss such issues but there are other platforms on the internet that can provide that service. Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.

Not at all. The MFC is the oldest football club in the world. We have been around for over 160 years. That doesn't happen by accident. We are made of teak, not balsa. The history of sport is littered with examples of sports teams that channel being unfairly attacked and maligned and having their backs against the wall into the ultimate success. Hell, in 2021 we won a flag after failing to make the finals in 2020 and getting smashed from pillar to post - including by many on here (there are receipts). We were written off, given no chance of winning a flag at the start of 2021. Again, even by many on here. Even after winning 10 games straight, a mid season loading related slump saw the haters casting shade and writing us off. Including many on here. Backs against the wall, we proved the doubters and haters dead wrong. Overcame the odds, travelling to Adelaide for our first final and quarantine in Perth. And won the bloody flag. Beware the angry Dee with a point to prove. Bring it.

I agree some early wins will certainly take the wind out of the sails of a media that doesn't seem to rate truth and credibility anywhere near as highly as it should. I think there are plenty of reasons to be optimistic about what we might be able to achieve this year, we will need a lot of things to fall our way, but that's not different to any other year. I find it incredibly interesting the talk of deep cultural issues being linked to a team with 3 consecutive top 4 finishes, a premiership in the AFL, VFL and AFLW, stability on all levels, record membership, the vast majority of required players re-signing long term and year on year profits. I'd say with a reasonable degree of confidence most other clubs would absolutely love to have this sort of a record. What i've stated is fact though, it's not media hyperbole. we've had an incredibly successful 3 year period by virtually all measures and realistically we've probably underachieved slightly based on what a club in our position is capable of. it's very hard to marry that up with the suggestion we are an absolute basket case with massive cultural problems.

Pardon my French but Garbage. I'm totally united and dont have my head in the sand. Todays news is stale and at least 4 weeks old for me. And I'm about as well connected as a 4 pin plug. (but it might explain why the media has been having pot shots at our culture since we won the GF). It will not stop me going to games, buying merch and making donations.

If any other club had had our preseason we’d be dancing on their graves.

Hard to unite behind the team when the more that is exposed the worse it gets. Without breaking any rules of this forum the club and most supporters collectively have their heads in the sand.

We can win it in 2024, and I can see it being a great story. A terrible off-season full of bad news and injuries. A tough start to the season. Strong competition and a lot of travel. Written off, supporters and media saying the era is over... But the club galvanizes. The players, the staff, and the fans. We make a run from outside the top 4 and ultimately win the bloody thing on the MCG. Sweeter than 2021.

IMO there is no middle ground here. We either come together as one BIG unit or we fall away big time. Let's trust it is the former. Adversity can bring unity if all buy in. Time will tell.

I find it amazing that people take so much notice of a gossip columnist that uses anonymous quotes to sensationalise his reporting of this story.

There are some of us who want to find the problems and fix them and there are others who keep denying problems exist i know how hard the Media are going to attack us, they will be relentless on this one We need to win early games this year…

That's disappointing . I was aiming for Churchillian.

I'm pretty disappointed and disheartened. I can't really support certain individuals given this happened on their watch. I think someone needs to take accountability here because it's a trend, and individual players are continually scapegoats. It's symbolic of a cultural trend and the longer the supporters put up with it the longer it'll fester. If the club falls away this year then the CEO, Board, and Coach should all resign. Seems pretty harsh but the implications and accusationa are following this club around and so long as they are still at the club, every single little that happens at the club will be blown up. I'll be there day one (not day 0 because flights were too expensive), but I go in pretty [censored] off overall with the club. I feel like the premiership window has slammed shut now for at least a few years. We need to fail quickly and get beyond this bump. Pretending it doesn't exist is just making it worse.

While I agree that it's pathetic to suggest that we're doomed and that our season is over, I think it's equally pathetic to say that someone isn't a true supporter when they raise doubts about our form. Both extremes are far too common on this site. Fwiw, I normally err on the positive side but it's perfectly understandable that people have their concerns given our chaotic off season and our inability to win a final over the past two years.

Optimist v pessimist. The age-old dichotomy. Both points of view are valid. Within reason. The extremes of either view is where it gets silly. Lose a meaningless practice game and our season is over and I'm microwaving my membership. Ridiculous. Any form of constructive criticism or negative perspective means you're not a true supporter. Ridiculous I think we'll finish top 4. But we have injuries and distractions. Not ideal preparation for the season. But hope springs eternal. I can't wait for the season to start and get along to the G on St Pats day to cheer on the red and blue. Go Dees

Dynasty over * … * using MFCSS practice match logic 😜

Another thing to consider in regards to Clarry's readiness from Opening Round is what I think Troy Chaplin mentioned in the post game presser is that he missed a chunk of the "education" training in terms of midfield/team tactics etc. Sure he could probably be brought up to speed and let's be honest he could easily slot back in but that's also a factor along with any fitness and pressure issues that may be present.

I'm totally with @Sir Why You Little here. 2021 was a very long time ago. Yes, the premership was amazing and I absolutely loved it but we haven't progressed since then. The fact is that we have been so painfully stale and predictable over the past two years that it's no surprise that we've underperformed in September. Some people on this site seem way too defensive to realise that it is possible to support the club while pointing out its deficiencies. If we don't make any changes to our gameplan in 2024, we'll be making up the numbers.

Thirty reactions to the OP so far and only one of them is not positive. Unity rules on Demonland.

Sadly we haven’t evolved from ‘21 That’s the point, in such a competitive competition, you must evolve. We still play the same style, that is why people are concerned Goodwin gets outcoached in BIG GAMES far too often, because he is reactive during a match,and those who don’t think it’s a problem, or ridicule posters for bringing it up, are not looking closely enough

A virus within the playing group.

I had us down to finish around 6th until 2-3 weeks ago. Our injury list, lack of depth in key positions and the ongoing off field dramas have dented my confidence, and I now think we'll miss finals. I also don't think that would be the worst thing in the world. A year to reset, clean up the list and work out whether some of our fringe players can actually play could be the best thing for us long term. T

Senior coach also put us into a position to win. We could not execute our goal kicking.

Probably because you get flamed for doubting. I actually don’t understand how you can presume it’s just going to happen again considering the preseason we’ve had. It’s been a shocker and it keeps on coming. Let’s see how you feel if we get pantsed by Carlton

No. But i am sick and tired of the excuses We have had a poor conversion Rate forward of Centre, for most of Goodwin’s Coaching Tenure. I do not understand why it looks the same Gameplan every week… There are people on here who disagree with me, fine. But as i have said for many years on here September pressure goes up 10-20% over the Home & Away and as Tracc said in the Podcast “We Crumbled” Now good on him for owning it, but we better not see the same conversion rates in ‘24 or Teams will murder us. We are in enough ship now because of a certain player This is going to be a tough year, i hope we get through it without major hemorrhaging

Premiers!!! It’s us against the world and some Demonlanders. Let’s stick it up them.

Windsor a spud? WTF, Tomlinson is no spud either, I hate that term of calling payers spuds.

Like to think here is an opportunity, to overcome adversity. Let the Demons show up and do it on the field. Fair dinkum supporters whether new or already dug in for generations will back them in. All the media vultures gathering round can fugazi off.

Appropriate comment from someone called "Cheap Seats". Reminds me of the probably apocryphal story of a club's Members' Handbook which had in its Table of Contents, "Seats - see under Members"

I hold my head high when I proclaim my devotion to the dees. It's been like that for over 60 years. For my taste, there are far too many "Monday morning armchair" strategists and tacticians on this site whose comments are neither helpful nor encouraging for true supporters. We have picked a coach and coaching panel and let them get on with the job. GO GOODY GO DEES

9th Other teams have gone past us Game plan doesn't stand up in finals playing group older and off field has damaged the desire of the team Any way just my humble opinion

If i was to guess rooster I would have thought you had us outside the 8. Sixth would bev slide, albeit not a calamitous one and good too see you think there's a chance we finish top of the ladder. I could absolutely see us finishing outside the 8, if like in 2019, we have a horror run with injury. The same is true of any side, including the pies. On maxy, I have been saying for at least 5 years that no one player is as important to a team's chances of success as maxy is to ours. If obviously depends when he got injured, but let's say he missed half a season I think our top 4 chanced are gone. Remarkably given his age, the same is true of the pies if nick daicos misses half the season, such is his importance to them (albeit not ad critical as maxy). However a reasonable counter argument is having maxy out for a block of time might create some positive outcomes - fast tracking verrll for example. I mean, we did pretty well with him not in the side last year. On the flaming, could I respectly suggest that just like the accusations of posters being triggered by what you see as valid criticisms of the club, there is perhaps an element of discouraging push back? Case in point, I think your commemt about 'the train wreck that this club has become over preseason' is hyperbolic and wildly inaccurate. Train wreck? C'mon. But I have no interest in having a dialogue about it because with that as a starting point it will go nowhere 'What else would you call it when......' Any dialogue would quickly descend into accusations of reflexively backing the club an refusing to see reality.

Yes indeed Dd. I'm so glad we have taken him back into the fold. Especially with Disco out for a while. I was surprised we let him ever go in the first place. He's a quality player. But yes, he may take a couple of weeks for him to find his groove. Welcome back MH.

Marty for mine with Turner out. Howes is more suited to a winger role imv. Just don't expect miracles from Marty early. Been out of the top line system for a while. Might take him a month or so to find his mojo but that would also be dependent on his overall performances and how tolerant Goody & the FD are. Marty's a damn fine player on his day. His only question mark was his disposal skills. Can only hope he's cleaned that up a fair degree during his abscence. If he has, he just might surprise a few and become the regular 3rd wheel in defence in 24.

At Carlton they say "1 to 4" because they believe they have finally added depth and a coherent team ethic to support the core of serious stars. At Collingwood they say the same but mostly because they get anxious trying to count any higher than that.

Nah we are [censored] when it rains 😂

Not forgetting his faithful sidekick, Binman Friday.

Is this a combination between Robinson Crusoe and the great Italian opera singer Enrico Caruso?

He says Melbourne were ''shown up in the finals''. That is patent nonsense. They dominated Carlton in most of the general play, but didn't close the door and lost by 2 points. They won most metrics, i.e. clearances, contested possessions, etc. They had 69 inside 50s to Collingwood's 37. They had 8 more scoring shots and they also dominated contested possessions, contested marks, marks inside 50, clearances, etc., before managing to lose by 7 points. It's obviously infuriating to lose two games we should have won, but we certainly weren't ''shown up''. Not having either Petty or van Rooyen for both games also didn't help, but naturally that gets overlooked.