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Well, as expected its all over but lets look at the positives, 1. We rose from 17th to 9th; Quite a rise and a big percentage improvement . 2, We beat old rivals, Carlton, Collingwood , Essendon and Hawthorn all in one season. WHEN DID WE LAST ACHIEVE SUCH A FEAT? Long, long time ago me thinks. We also nearly took the honours against Geelong with a missed gettable goal after the siren and had a real chance to beat Brisbane losing by 4 points. We took care of St Kilda and North Melbourne, teams that have had the wood on us for many years. Finishing higher than Sydney and GWS too must be noted as positives. 3. Our two early draft picks showed that they will be stars of the future and Ed Langdon was a wonderful addition to our list. Young Rivers too gives hope for the future. Individually, we had positives with the potential AA selection of Petracca, Stephen May and Max Gawn. We are nowhere near perfect yet but heading in the right direction. Go DEMONS 2021 and beyond.

Reasons for Deespair 1. Lack of fight when we really needed it. Pathetic. 2. Brand of footy? I still have no idea what that means 3. Coaches/Selectors making drastic and dumb changes in either of the must win games in Cairns. 4. Lack of development/improvement. Brayshaw, Harmes, Lever, Spargo, Weid, Baker, OMac, Sparrow, Bedford, Hannan, Hunt, Smith. None of these players have improved. 5. TMac/Jones/Nev are all cooked. 6. Way too many list cloggers, not enough room on this thread... Reasons for a Whinge 1. Essendon game being postponed. A bye would've been nice. 2. Having to go from Alice to Cairns in 4 days resulting from the above 3. Jacko going down. That didn't help when we just started seeing "Cohesion".... 4. Brisbane game. Hmmm, few decisions cost us badly in that one. 5. Bloody Covid 6. Injuries to Petty, Jordan, Hore. I think they can all play. Reasons for Optimism 1. Petracca, breakout year. Outstanding. 2. May. My new favourite player. Huge, tough, and most of all hates losing. 3. Rivers. Liked him from day 1. Looks to have all the attributes. Lock him in. 4. Jackson. Will scare opposition coaches. Hard to match up on. Lookout when he's got 50 games under his belt. 5. Kozi. Wasn't sold on him but his is work rate is outstanding. Experience will get him in the right spots and if we end up with a proper forward line someday he'll know where to be. Expectations too high in 1st year. He'll be fine. 6. Fritsch. Yes he's a bit arrogant and can't kick straight but he's a fantastic kick when up the ground. Elite numbers for score involvements and 7th in the league for goal assists. Kicked 22.24 and probably a few on the full. That's a good year considering our forward line structure seems to change week to week. 7. Langdon. A very solid year. Best gut runner we've had in decades. Get's to the right spots and tries his heart out. If we can improve his kicking technique he can become elite. 8. Oliver. Yes had some horror games disposal-wise but kept at it and had some very good games by foot and hand. He copped some real abuse both internally and externally in a tough season for everyone mentally. He gets marked by the opposition every week and deserves a pat on the back for not going into his shell when most would have. 9. Lockhart. I think he has a future down back and expecting him to improve next year. Bit to learn but gives his all and tries to show dash and break open play. Rather that than negative players who dish off and transfer the pressure. 10. Mitch Brown. Might be getting too optimistic here but i thought his last 2 games were terrific. With the possibility of TMac being traded we need a swing man. He is quite smart with the footy in hand. Worth another year unless we pull off some shrewd trading. 11. Weideman. Clutching here but can play at times. I think he can improve with a better set up/forwards coach. His last chance.

As tempting as it is to compile a whole list of delistings, I don't think we need to be making the wholesale changes that North Melbourne have gone for. Smaller list sizes will certainly impact on how many we cut, but this is a terrible year to be making significant cuts. We have a poor draft/trade hand and this year's draft will be severely compromised through both academy selections and COVID ruining many seasons for young prospects (and VFL players). I expect the two Wagners and KK to get cut and I won't be surprised if Preuss or Tmac gets traded, but I suspect we'll be keeping Omac, Brown, and Smith, who I'm sure many will inevitably call to be sacked. They may not be world beaters, but it's far more valuable to have those players on the list as depth rather than a bunch of speculative 18-year-olds that have barely played competitive footy in 12 months. As for guys like ANB, Vanders and Spargo - I'm pretty confident they'll be on the list next year. The lack of VFL means it's hard to get a read on some of the youngsters like Dunkley, Chandler and Bradkte but I wouldn't be rushing to cut any of them unless they're genuinely showing nothing. In my eyes, Dunkley is still a first year player who we were lucky enough to pluck earlier than the rest. I think they promised Nietschke another year when he got his injury, and Jordon seemed to be coming along well before the late injury so I think they're both safe. Bedford could be a really interesting one. Getting dropped after both of his games isn't a good sign, but he did a few things in both games and we still haven't found the right forward balance. Jones and Jetta also loom as interesting ones. Jetta has another year on his contract but you would suspect retirement would be option. Jones has been debated elsewhere in great detail and there's probably pros and cons keeping him on regardless of the milestone figure. Bennell is anyone's guess. I hope we keep him, but it's a bit hard to say after everything that's just happened today. While some may disagree, I think we were a bit too aggressive with list changes after 2018 (another fairly injury-free year) with Pedersen, Bugg, Kent, Vince all going at once. When injuries hit us hard in 2019, our depth was shot and we were uncompetitive. I hope the footy department are a bit wiser this time around.

Delist Troy Chaplin - Backline coach Justin Plapp - Midfield coach Ben Matthews - Stoppage and contest coach Josh Mahoney - Direct of Football Operations/Football Manager ‐----‐-------‐----------------------------- Time for a clean out of the dead wood.

I also can't help thinking that the whole COVID situation, draw and fixturing didn't help our cause much this season. When you look at a number of the teams that have finished near the top, Port, Brisbane West Coast, they all had fairly substantial home ground advantages over Victorian sides this season, particularly Brisbane and to some extent West Coast who always seem to get a substantial home ground advantage (particularly from umpire assistance). West Coast were actually so good at home and so bad away from it, that you wounder if they would actually have made finals had they not been able to play in WA. Playing a bunch of games off 4 - 5 day breaks in hot and tropical conditions in Alice, followed by Cairns in shocking conditions really didn't help our cause. Neither did missing the Essendon COVID positive game and the subsequent lack of bye round (actually more like a normal 7 day break that most clubs got but we didn't). In the end when we only missed finals by one game, I don't think these factors can be discounted as to why we missed finals, but as stated in my previous post, it probably wasn't enough of a difference as to why we weren't a genuine contender either.

What are you on about? He was never on Collingwoods AFL list. He was recruited from their VFL team after winning back to back best and fairest. At one stage last year he was leading the AFL competition for intercept marks. Oscar is finished. 5 years on the list and has not improved one bit. Matter of fact he's gotten worse.

Interested in other's thoughts, I wanted him in the side a lot over the season but for reasons best known to the match committee was overlooked time and again. He is a very smart footballer, knows where to run, can take a contested mark, disposes well and is not afraid to put his body in. He ticks a lot of boxes! Could have kicked a couple more goals, but I thought his last 2 games were Excellent! One the basis that we lack players with "Smarts" I reckon he deserves at least a one year deal with triggers for beyond. I would be disappointed but not surprised given its the MFC and some decision making re Contracts have been in the past, "Lacking" that he may not be offered but,,, I hope he gets another gig at MFC

Bob Murphy said on SEN this afternoon if he leaves Essendon that he is hearing Demons are his likely new home.

I'm sure I'll get to the positives when I'm ready. Its not like 2017 where I was just gutted. I am more just super disappointed and frustrated at the same time. Its another year wasted. Which ever way you look at at it. We had a list that was injury free, and yet its stuff like team selections, and poor game day management is what continues to kill us.

Understood, it's a different set of circumstances. I'm making a point of people are so quick to say sack him without knowing all of the details, and it is a huge double standard to have that attitude towards Harley and not Spargo, Kozzie, and to a lesser extent May last year. I for one hope we support Harley and don't abandon him, he's had troubled life and I'd like to hope we get around him and give him an opportunity to repay the faith we've put in him. Would be a shame for it to end like this

courtesy of @Lucifer's Hero

Just elaborating a little further, TMac has, in no uncertain terms, requested to be traded out of MFC for a number of reasons that are plain to see. OMac on the other hand and somewhat seperate from TMac, is keen to gauge what if/any interest exists for his services and at this stage is on more of a fishing expedition than anything else.

Look closely at our list and games played and compare it to any other team in the league. Seriously. If you do and want to refute that as a reason why we still struggle sometimes then get back to me. You will lose the argument. We are poised for a major dynasty. Enjoy the next few months off peeps.

We had a family zoom Saturday night and my aunty is related to the Danihers ( from her side of the family so we have no connections nor have I ever met Joe ) but she was asked about the Daniher thing and she mentioned that Joe won't be the only big name player. Merrett, Hurley and Hooker were others that were named. There you go wasn't aware of that.

A medium marking option is so far from our most pressing need. Gunston is a good player, but why waste resources (draft picks and money) on him when the incremental improvement is so small? It would be much smarter to use those on a player who fills an important, pressing need .... like a crumbing small forward or a running half back.

Today I am writing to the Chairman, it won’t be nasty but I will be giving my opinion and asking that he honour his commitment of a far reaching review of all areas of the club. I will also be stating that it should be done by an outside of the club source. I suggest that you all do similar, complaining on here while it helps our sanity will not get change at the MFC. Do it now.

The revisionism about the Bulldogs is hilarious. How tenacious were they when being thumped by 50 by Carlton? Or Collingwood? They needed a [censored] score review to get them in a position to have a chance of finals. We made progress this year and to say otherwise suggests an agenda or blinkered view. I'm not happy we missed finals but we are not far off, and I expect to be there next year.

There is absolutely no chance that we'll sack Goodwin and replace him with Jordan Lewis who has never coached a day of football.

It will be similar to the Hannebery trade. Injury history, in-contract (3 years to go), in and out of the side and was traded for peanuts. The pick swaps made it look a goodish deal but it was peanuts for a player with his honours: The Swans have traded Hannebery and pick 28 to the Saints, and received pick 39 and St Kilda's 2019 second-round pick in return. ie effectively a late 2nd round pick but the Swans got his $800,000k salary off their books. Not saying we will get the equivalent of a late 2nd rnd pick, just that the club will probably be happy to get TMac's salary off the books.

This is not a year to be doing a massive list cull. We have no first round pick, the draft is heavily compromised and will be a chook raffle given no junior footy. We would be better to go with minimum wage one-year deals on current players or DFA than lock ourselves in to two year deals from the draft.

Apart from not making finals, i'm disappointed by how many of our good players have dropped off. Considering we had one of the best fitness coaches in the AFL. Players like Brayshaw, Harmes, Tmac, Jetta and Melksham are meant to be leading the way and helping us into finals as the older wiser heads and they've all been atrocious. How does that happen? What I want to see next year is a more skilled team i.e better kicking... in particular Viney, Langdon and AVB. Enough with the constant hollywood handballs... kick the damn ball! and we still haven't learnt to keep a wider spacing around the contested ball stoppages. We are continually getting 3 or 4 players drawn onto the ball only to have the opposition win it seconds later as we give off a handball to a team mate under pressure a metre away causing a turnover. Goodwin drives the team. He talks of being ruthless! and yet what happened to us in the last quarter against Essendon? we completely dropped off. "No worries lads, we're 30 odd points up, we got this"....instead of putting them to the sword we come away with a narrow victory. Where is this killer instinct he speaks of? He needs to stop being their mate/father figure as many players refer too and actually dish out some tough love. I've put up with this nonsense for 30 years, I expect more and I demand more than just watching this team do the bare minimum to get a win. It's unacceptable.

There are positives. We finished 9th coming from 17th. We could've finished anywhere between 4th and 7th. Should've won against Brisbane and maybe against Geelong. We were favourites against Fremantle and Sydney. Big improvement with injuries as compared to last year. Two press releases today on a Sunday was not the way to finish a season. The club will have a busy few days. I miss going to the Football and I will be there for the club next year. Let's hope we have a great 2021. Stay safe to everyone here on Demonland.

Keep! Good, honest footballer, who works bloody hard.

Still think the contract for next season is the best option. It has been blown out of proportion due to the political nature of anything COVID related.

That's complete rubbish. Our 10 best players this year are all 28 years old or younger and most of them are 24yo or younger. May 28, Gawn 28, Viney 26, Salem 25, Petracca 24, Lever 24, Langdon 24, Brayshaw 24, Oliver 23 and Fritsch 23. Weid 23, Petty 20 and Sparrow 20 are all developing and there's high hopes for Jordon 19. That doesn't even take into account Jackson, Pickett and Rivers who all showed they will be at least good AFL players.

No-one here can make a sensible call on Jordon, Nietschke, Chandler, Dunkley or Bradtke given the season we've had and the fact that we haven't been able to see them play. The FD however will know what they want to do.

We made progress off the back of finishing 17th last year, a completely unacceptable position, even with injuries. We have not made any progress since 2017, where we finished 9th, and then went on to play prelims in 2018. Progress from there would suggest consistent finals appearances and wins. Not finishing 9th and saying "oh good, we jumped up from bottom 2", when we never ever should have finished that low to begin with.

May went drinking last season when he was injured. Did people call for him to be sacked? No. Yes it's a mistake, a covid breach and a costly on at that. He's been isolated in the hub without being selected for a number of weeks, not saying what he did was ok but he shouldn't be crucified either.

Zac Merrett from Essendon.. i reckon its worth having a chat. Worked with Goody at Essendon and played with Hibberd and Melksham as well. A few senior players not happy at Essendon regarding direction of the club.

People like rumors, we dont need the fun police to tell people off. Fake or not who cares. It's about the fun of trade timeif you dont like it dont read it.

Most consistently good player of the season would have to go to Ed Langdon in my book. I think I can recall him playing maybe one mediocre game all season, but I couldn't tell you which one it was. Really liked what he bought to the team. Absolutely genius move recruiting him and I hope he enjoys the wide open spaces of the MCG next season.

Doctors diagnosis The end is now upon us. And whilst I have drawn criticism for being excessively critical of the team and coach I believe now is a good time to reflect on the positives and negatives of the year as well as something to look forward to for 2021. I will start with the positives: - Injuries and the recruitment of Burgess. Burgess has done his part for the club. He got us fit and got us through the season unscathed. A big tick. - Draftees: Rivers, Jackson and Pickett. They have all got valuable senior experience. Jackson will spend another 6 months getting big in the gym and Pickett will hopefully be taught how to slow down and get some composure when the ball is in his hands. Rivers will hopefully continue along his natural trajectory. - Langdon: We've now found a young player that suits our needs. A great find. - May: An AA calibre season. Takes some of the pain away from not having King. Needs to hit 2021 on good shape again. - Trade period: Even though Mahoney is criticised a lot for some of his decisions he doesn't get the credit he deserves for the things he does right. He is proactive during trade week and he will be proactive again. With many deficiencies and no first round draft pick we need someone who can be proactive during trade week. Negatives: - Game style and structure: Our consistent loss of clearances despite having elite clearance winners and an elite ruck is a worry. Consistently our inside midfielders not understanding the concept of space at a stoppage and getting beaten easily and often without being able to stop the flow. - Accountability: This is across the board. Oscar McDonald starting a game against Brisbane not even on his opponent highlighted our lack of defensive mindset. This was confirmed with our stoppage structure at vital stages of matches like against GWS with 15 seconds to go and no-one manning Josh Kelly. We need to lift in this area and putting Harmes in as a tagger helps with setting the defensive tone of the entire midfield. -Lack of Speed. Our lack of speed compounds the issue of defensive accountability. Even if the desire is there we have too many one paced players. Significant speed needs to be brought into the club. Probably over 2 national drafts. Next year we will be playing on the mcg. A much bigger ground. We will be exposed even more if we don't make this a heavy focus. - Goodwin: He continues to frustrate fans. He seems slow to react on game day as well as being slow to make correct selections. He ultimately hasn't been able to address our lack of defensive accountability since 2018. We are still far too easy to score against. - Tom Mcdonald: His decline has coincided with our decline and put a lot of pressure on Weideman to be the man. - Players who have gone backwards: Brayshaw, Harmes, Melksham, Fritsch and Hunt. We need to see improvement from at least 3 of these guys next season.

Positives. The breakout year of Petracca the return to form of Steven May the inclusion of Ed Langdon the 3 draftees all look the goods. Negatives. Still have a senior coach with no idea what he's doing. 22 individuals, not a team horrific selections and way too many changes week to week little to no sign of improvement in the same areas that have been killing us for years Simon Goodwin hasn't been sacked yet.

Comments by King after the bulldog game were spot on, we are happy being competitive in most games, said the list is better then dogs and should be in finals but we don't have a killer instinct

Was speaking with someone today who confirmed this

Comparing to the 2019 debacle is clutching at straws. And a depressing assessment of our season to use wins over bottom of the ladder teams to find positives and suggesting games we lost were positives because we nearly won them. A more balanced view would acknowledge we nearly lost to Carlton, Giants and Saints. Its great that 2 or 3 players have improved and that we have a handful of excellent players but hardly a ringing endorsement of our list or performance. A few positives yes, but the season was a Fail. Simples.

Sums up 2020 well I think

My mail is this is not a story about 'booze', lets give it 24 hours before we assemble the bonfire, get some facts, the guy has been getting his running going again, has been a long way off sustaining his high intensity running and you would have to think with a preseason his numbers could be good. All season he did not breakdown or re injure himself. And if this incident does resolve around getting a bigger car and a car seat for a kid, while STUPID, is not the end of the world. Wasn't like he was doing lines with Karmichael Hunt.

swear petty is a defender and last season was just an emergency forward

Rubbish Always an entertaining ride win, lose or draw. It's sport.

I really don't get the enormous hate for Oscar or the love for Hore. Oscar: by no means perfect but he is a good kick and generally a good decision maker. Yes, like all fringe players he makes mistakes sometimes, but look at our Demonland votes and notice he's in the top 22. Provides the extra height needed against tall forward lines. Hore: couldn't get a game at Collingwood. In 2019 he was frequently caught out of position and gave away unnecessary free kicks. Now he has been passed by Trent Rivers - a 19 year old in his first season. Even if he is retained, I doubt we'll see Hore selected in the team again.