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Whoo boy nice heated discussion going on here Before I start telling the whole story let me say that some of you are severely underestimating just how harsh and grueling the camp from last year was I'm not going to use names or specific numbers for privacy reasons Now, last Monday Goody told the playing group that the camp would be happening again this year from 18th-20th before breaking for Christmas. Immediately quite a number of players where very much against this for a variety of reasons (including players from the Leadership group), so a group approached the AFLPA to ask how to handle the situation. The MFC staff caught wind of this, so Goodwin gave a presentation last Thursday explaining what they wanted to get from the camp, and explaining that this time they will be bringing a larger amount of medical staff and ensure players were well fed (apparently the food/nutrition last year wasn't the best) Even after this talk, still quite a high number of players were very unhappy about having to do the course again. So over the weekend the Leadership group and AFLPA met with MFC Coaches/high level staff to discuss the situation, reportedly getting quite feisty at times. The club did have the official final say on the matter, and chose to call the camp off. Monday morning Goodwin gathered all the players and told them the camp was being called off due to the high number of players who raised concerns with it, and he said he wasn't angry but very disappointed because he felt they had given enough information to the players that their health and safety concerns were going to be handled appropriately. However throughout the day the players could tell Goodwin and some other coaches were indeed pretty unhappy with the playing group (when you work with people for long enough you can tell pretty clearly when they are not in the best mood) I've got no confirmation of this, but I would assume the three days of training next week before the Christmas break are probably going to make up for the lack of physical and mental work lost from having cancelled the camp. I do agree with a number of you that it is a bad look, especially when the club is in the finals drought we find ourselves in. But I also see where the players are coming from, there is a higher chance of injuries and I sure as s*** wouldn't want to do the camp, and I was in the Army for 5 years. Take from that what you will, its a pretty crappy situation overall.

It's been replaced by the full day spa experience at Peninsula Hot Springs with a dry needling option.

Omac is a 21yr old key defender being built from the ground up both physically and skill wise I still expect some look away moments this season, but he is certainly not the liability to the team that some make him out to be

Big time deja vu happening forme - players cancelled training with Dean Bailey (ref Jim Stynes book). Look where that got us! On any level this does not sit right: This camp would have taken weeks/months to schedule and organise. Were the players not consulted/told about it till last week? Doesn't sound like two-way communication was happening. Did the leadership group not sass out the players earlier? How did it come to this. Other clubs walk the Kokada track - now that is gruelling. Referring to Tyson and Salem last year is irrelevant. Injuries can happen at any time - just ask Petracca who did his ACL simply going for a mark. But we go weak at the knees at a few days at a boot camp. Sheesh! We finally ditched the 'bruise free football' label. But last year we proved the 'mentally weak' label over and over again, right up to round 23. Respect lost with 17 other teams Club talks about being ruthless. Given the chance to walk the talk and do something really tough the players back off. I'm staggered the club allowed the players to call the shots. So much for Goodwin's tough talk. My expectations for 2018 have been jolted - backwards.

This is either: a) Good b) Bad

My father was a passionate supporter. At his wake the last song played was the Grand Old Flag. All my cousins and their kids barrack for the Dees. As do my sister and her kids. My niece married into a Melbourne supporting family last year. At the wedding their were perhaps 150 guests and it was a struggle to find someone who didn’t barrack for the red and blue. Again the night closed with a couple of rousing renditions of the song. It was huge. My nephews wedding next year will be similar. The only family disappointment is my brother who is a football philistine who, I think, believes he is above all that nonsense. Fortunately his oldest inherited the Melbourne gene. For all the years of pain and disappointment I love being Melbourne

Oscar is underrated. Doesn't deserve most of the flak he cops on here. Of course he has some areas to improve, hes a 21 year old key back after all. The Big O is coming along nicely.

This is being over analysed to extraordinary levels.

How great it is for us country Demons to see the names with the photos. I have never been to a training session @ only get to about 3 games so to be able to get a better idea on faces and names is great. love the lever deal but will miss JW. Go Dees

At 189 cm, I recon Mitch Hannan is a pretty close match for a Robbo type of forward. Although he probably tends to work up the ground a bit more, I think he has a similar skill/attribute set to Robbo - good high mark, mercurial and good goal sense.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/melbourne-demons/melbourne-training-camp-cancelled-after-players-consult-aflpa-20171214-h04vri.html Quote: '...Melbourne players met with the AFLPA to seek guidance on how to approach the situation with the club". Does that suggest players had tried to negotiate with the club and failed so took an official grievance to the 'Union'. Should have been sorted without players going to the 'Union'. It might explain why it was cancelled so late but for mine, makes the situation look even worse.

We do have short memories.. We forget that in 2005 he kicked 73 goals and 30 points. That is seriously elite numbers! He was absolutely robbed of an All Australian selection that year for none of then Brad Johnson..

Oscar was good in the second half of the year, turned it around on Queens Bday I thought. With his brother moving forward there is room in defence for him alongside Lever, Jetta, Hibberd, Lewis and possibly Frost.

Given that my children follow Melbourne, my grandchildren follow Melbourne, and I converted my wife from an Essendon supporter, I can claim a few credits.

I always wonder the point of these camps as I struggle to see the positives in starving the players, depriving them of sleep then completing rigorous training that has a high likelihood of injury doing ridiculous training regimes that [censored] the players. How can any of this be positive? It’s not improving skills, aerobic capacity, setting up game plans etc. If you’re going to give them a flogging, make it an hour longer skills session, do some extra sprints or a longer run etc. Something that will be beneficial. I recently did Kokoda mentoring a group of kids who have there challenges. From the exhaustion and minimal food I dropped some serious kgs and struggled for a couple months after. It did nothing for bonding either as we were stuffed and cranky every night. Not sure it helps that much. I think only the first year hawks do it now

“After listening to feedback from players... decided to scrap it.” It’s hardly rioting. Non issue. If North Korea decide to invade while we’re 20 points up against Geelong, this might come back to bite us.

Robbo is a great Demon loved watching him play... he rang me about 4 years ago on behalf of the club (can’t remember exactly why) and i spoke to him for a good hour about how bad things were and what we could do to save the joint. It was pre Roos great bloke Robbo, never doubt his passion for the MFC

My brother’s first wife was a Collingwood supporter and his daughter followed Collingwood and his son the Demons. Then Dermott Brererton joined Collingwood (who she hated) and she has been a Melbourne supporter ever since.

We don't need to knock him. He was a Demon for 9 years and has moved on. We should do the same.

As others have mentioned Goodwin may sometimes soften selection criteria and play someone a bit out of form/fitness, needs the experience or doesn't play his role well one week. To be fair players are entitled to the odd poor game without being automatically dropped. But there are other criteria I am sure he will not ease up on: Follow instructions! Do the Team Things! Behave off-field! Train hard! That is why Harmes, Hannan and ANB got games and Kent did not. Goodwin has more depth and I would expect him to enforce those disciplines much more next year. And, team selection will be where he enforces them.

The best 22 and "in form" and "playing your role" and "fully fit" message is of course bullocks. The same was said last year but what really happened. Hannan plays round one after one practice game the week before for Casey. JKH gets rushed in after injury only to play a couple of very poor games Joel Smith is selected round one after injury Joel Smith gets selected after his injury on the scantest of games and performance at Casey Cory Maynard is promoted and then dropped after one game where he was far from our worst Viney gets rushed back to the team after surgery. Others may be able to think of other examples. Some of these things worked and some didn't. Goodwin wants to give hope to everyone in preseason so these things are said. He can't ever say otherwise. Do you really think that a 90% fit Oliver will be overlooked for a one hundred percent fit Billy Stretch? Goodwin will pick the team he thinks has the best chance of winning. He'll weigh up a players form, ability, injury status and role (amongst other things) for a game and select our best team.

Hope everyone keeps that bit of information in-house..

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/michael-christian-to-replace-afl-match-review-panel-under-new-judiciary-system-20171214-h04gp5.html "In his role as the single decision-maker, Christian will liaise directly with Hocking, who will tick off on each incident". So much for MRP independence if the AFL Hocking is involved in each case to tick it off. There are some good changes re the penalties so it will hopefully be better. It certainly seems easier to get off or get a light(er) penalty - not sure if that is a good thing. But to have one person adjudicate just opens it up to bias. And I have little confidence in Hocking/AFL role to not just fudge it to get the outcome they want. I feel this is a backward step. Far better to have a 3 person panel with a Chair and to have some legal experience on the panel. Edit: This article summarises the changes a bit better http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-14/major-changes-to-afl-match-review-panel

G’day boys - no boot camp, get your runners on - 400 x 100’s instead... off you go...

They didn't boycott 'Lucifer', they were asked and gave their opinion. It's good the FD are listening. The problem is you can't hand over a bunch of highly trained and well payed professional footballers to a bunch of nut jobs are not qualified to train highly tuned athletes...it was a dumb idea last year and not well handled, it might be handled better this year but still a dumb idea. We were lucky we didn't get more injuries last year.

This makes me feel very uncomfortable. Players should not be dictating what they will and won't do. Where's the leadership team and when are we going to get rid of this soft underbelly?

They’ve also pulled out of playing round 1 because they don’t want to risk injury going into round 2.

Need more info On face value, it paints a terrible picture. Who the hell are the players to cancel AYTHING? Nope, just read the article. Bloody hell our mob are soft. Disgraceful that they pulled the Workplace Health and Safety line. Disgusted.

My view last year was that it wasn't a good idea and I still believe that to be the case. Interesting that despite comments to the contrary it appears the players were not that enamoured with it at all. You can't have outsiders with too much control.

Why on earth go on a so-called boot camp? Knock yourselves out boys, show me you're a man. Novices to the British army did boot camps. So did Borstal boys. We hopefully have a fine-tuned training/rehabilitation program already in place. No need for this type of macho [censored].

good start to 2018 season for fd/player relationships just wait for the sledging

This model assumes Michael Christian never gets sick and never has a holiday. Nevertheless, I see the point about one person leading to better consistency. I'm glad to see Christian is giving up all his media roles (other than speaking to the media in his role as MRP Supremo). I thought it was never right having MRP members also working in the media. And I really like the abolition of the "extra match" being risked if a player appeals. I always thought that was too tough.

I was a bit on the fence about this but Lucifer's comments have raised some issues I hadn't thought about. Aside from anything else though, it's ludicrous to be making rule changes based on improving the game style after one, 7-game season played by part-timers. There's enough natural development that will occur with experience, more game-time spent together, the inevitable progression of tactics and strategy. Teams will be reacting to what worked and didn't work in 2017. If a couple of seasons down the road, there is still a problem (and I'm not sure that there is one), then sure, tinker with the rules. And the higher scores thing doesn't make sense to me. Again, scores will get higher as professionalism increases (see: WBBL scores this year). The men's game isn't the benchmark for what a high score in the women's game should look like. A high score is relative to your opposition's ability to score. You better believed I was as happy with the 70 points we scored in the last round as I would be with 120 points in the men's game. Plus, as they say, a close game's a good game. I refuse to believe that most people go to an AFL game just to see lots of goals.

I am moving to Melbourne in a couple of weeks and signed up to a Bronze GA membership in October. I have admired how Roos turned the club around and the general direction it's heading in (although I understand with that comes a lot of disappointment!) now under Goodwin. Can anyone share their thoughts on the quality of seats you can get for GA? Obviously I've seen the map but it's better to get a first hand response. Also, for Anzac Eve and Queens Bday games, how full will it get and do you have to rock up hours in advance? Oh, and I was delivered two scarves (as others are also saying). Maybe I'll need them in June/July...

Hutchy may have business acumen, but if anyone has listened to his inane banter with Liam Pickering, on their Saturday morning show; "Off the Bench", you would know that Marko and Ox are oracles in comparison.

Ooops, it WAS the SPORTING GLOBE pub, sorry Hemingway. Memory and ageing do no coalesce sometimes. Sorry. I got my MFC Membership package in the Adelaide mail, this morning. Bewdy.

Speaking of fake news. Name one DL poster who has indicated or suggested he is the second coming?

Directly opposite the Town Hall is the Sporting Globe (corner of Lyndhurst st) and as they are an mfc sponsor, I'm guessing that is where Robbo can be found. http://www.sportingglobe.com.au/melbournefc I haven't been there so can't say what it is like but I would imagine Robbo would be quite entertaining.

I agree with both of you, I wasn't having a dig at his current involvement at all, it's a wondrous thing. I was just wondering if it's a clearer image in most of our eyes than his on-field endeavours.

Forgot how good he was...

Robbo if only you could put your boots back on. Inspirational as you were. A legend.

I was expecting this to be from Mark Robinson. I even had my snarky post all lined up; I was gonna say: "There's only one Robbo I care about and his name ain't Mark."

I asked about Smith at the time, they were disappointed when he got injured and wanted him back in the team quickly, again it didn't work out the way they wanted It is also not an argument, it is a discussion with well put opinions, a breath of fresh air on here I agree with buck on Weed/Pedo, Pedo was working hard on rebuilding himself, Weed was ready to go

That's good to know. Do they like you?

Hannan was selected on an outstanding game at Casey showing everything that Goodwin wanted to see, sending a message to other players JKH was rewarded for Casey form, by his own admission let himself down when given the chance and was duly dropped Maynard was unlucky to be dropped but had earned his crack I expect to see the same from Goodwin this yeat