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Not such a big deal about Lever not turning up to the Crows B&F. At least he turned up for the Grand Final which is more than you can say about Tex.

I'm told there's an anti Watts brigade. For me it's more a pro MFC brigade, as evidenced by my username. I'm drawn to Paul Roos' final speech at the MFC during the 2016 B&F. As he wound up he delivered a message to the players. He said, "Decide to be great. It's a decision and doesn't happen by accident." He went on to say that "it doesn't start on November 5 at Goody's first training session, it starts tonight". During last off-season Jack made decisions, but they didn't echo Roos' sentiments. He never decided to be great.

Scott Thompson just thanked the MFC for 4 great years with us before he moved to the Crows. Thanked us also for drafting him in the first place. Fantastic to hear from Scott. Wish him well in retirement.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that every coach ever has or had the same focus.

I listened to the Roos interview on deetales last night. Brilliant interview. One of the best and most expansive interview i have heard with anyone directly involved with the dees. Roos is relaxed and remarkably open, in a way i suggest is unlikely in a normal media gig. I recommend giving it a listen if interested in the last few years at the dees As has been noted in this thread he touches on Watts (from 5.23 min), but that is only a very small part of what of what is a very wide ranging discussion. That said Roos addresses many of the issues raised in this thread by posters on both sides of the argument. To be transparent in my position i agree with most of what Roosy says, with one exception. I''m not sure if its a mistake to trade him or not in so far as i fully respect Goodwin's right to make the call and i don't know what the basis is for the decision (Roos acknowledges the same thing). If Goody and the FD decide it is the right decision then that is good enough for me. That doesn't mean i agree with it, have to like it or that i won't be upset to lose Watts. But it is Goody's team and as someone pointed out the club is privy to data and other information (eg how well or otherwise jack approached his rehab or off season) that we - and Roos - are not. Also Jack may simply not fit Goody's game plan or type of player he wants (eg not intense enough). All that said, in light of the debate that is raging here on DL i did find Roosy's comments fascinating given who he is and how well he knows our team. Here are some selected quotes on three of the questions and issues that have been covered in this thread: Are you a Watts fan 'i'm a huge Watts fan' 'an outstanding player' 'a very, very good player' 'he elevated his game, certainly in my last year' 'an elite kick, an elite decision maker 'i'm a massive Jack Watts fan' 'he's got weakness and some of them are his responsibility to address' 'i would take Jack Watts over Jake stringer every day of the week' (this was in the context of what roos said was the unfair criticism of jack compared to a player like Stringer who has been dropped multiple times over the last 2 years, and who by the by some people are saying is worth a high first round draft pick) 'the perception of jack Watts is just crazy .......its completely unrealistic' Are they doing the right thing to trade him? 'i'd be disappointed personally but i don't know whats going on' 'i think its a big mistake to trade him but i don't know, i'm only basing that on what i saw last year and this year' 'you need a mix of players to play in your premiership' Roos finished the discussion on Watts with this unequivocal comment: 'i think it would be a mistake to get rid of him' Does he impact games enough 'the sort of player that wins you games, certainly in the last two years' 'he has won 6-8 games in the last two years, unquestionably' 'the sort of player every team needs' 'if i was another club and Melbourne rang me and said would you like Jack Watts i couldn't hold of him quick enough' 'i know there was some criticism of him this year but the games i saw him play he impacted'

Adelaide knew Lever wasn't staying before the finals started. They still chose to select him to represent the AFC on their biggest day. To say that we'll select you for a GF, even though we know you're leaving, but we'll then block you from turning up to the B&F is about as small minded as you can get. That's why it's a plastic club.

Hang on, mate. No need for that. Whatever the motives are and reasons for them doing this, they are doing in the best interests of your footy club you love so much. Jack will always be a great Demon no matter what happens this off season and if this is it - well, that is footy. We all have our opinions but let's back the club. Can't hold them accountable outside the tent. Stay on board.

Well Adelaide surely won’t want to take Francis from Essendon since they are so high up on the fence of “moral high ground”

Its all over folks. No more angst and hand wringing required. Jack will farewell the team at the B&F. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/jack-watts-to-farewell-melbourne-as-clubs-line-up-to-acquire-the-former-no1-pick/news-story/57a7ef5a6c8ebaf9a5a023e377652ad1 Only one quote to take from the article: "Melbourne spearhead Jesse Hogan would prefer to keep Watts and is believed to have told his teammate as much when they spoke briefly last week". Teams in the running: Port, Geelong, Sydney and apparently StKilda have contacted him. Good Luck young man. Go and prove all the doubters wrong. I will cheer you (not your team) whatever colours you wear. Thanks for the memories, loyalty to my beloved Demons and sticking with us when we were a basket case. During that time you were a rare bright spark on rainy winter days at the G. So, so sad to see you go.

Far less than what he was being offered at other clubs... and he’s absolutely worth that

Why on earth are people in here talking about trading ANB?!?! He was a revelation this year ...

Walker is just jealous of Lever because he has perfect ears.

I'm not a great fan of Watts the footballer. I haven't been for a long time. But it will be bloody sad to see him go. He's impossible not to like and his foot skills are superb. Not to mention, he loves the Dees.

Not everyone 'within' the club is happy about this approach. An older, more experienced Goodwin might very well give the rookie first year Goodwin a few words of wisdom on this one. I suspect he still has a binary code on this stuff - a seasoned, modern senior coach seems to possess more EQ on the human stuff than the old dinosaur coaches and the coaches new to the ranks. I would love Goodwin to reach out to Hardwick on this before pressing the ejector button on Watts. I strongly suspect he would have a few pearls of wisdom that would be pertinent to the issue at hand. And it'll be around the human, non technical stuff. Ironically, I think Goodwin's trying too hard (and I like him). Quite often, the ability to know when to manage certain issues from 40,000 feet, and to know when NOT to squeeze the grip too tightly, comes from experience. It's about materiality. It takes a fairly refined perspective on things. David Gonski is big on this. But it takes years of experience and knowledge to know when to simply oversee from above and when to micro-manage. Sure, Jack probably needs a boot up the arse on some things. But he also needs to be respected and feel safe on certain other issues. He is a loyal and supremely talented player. He adds value and dimensionality to our list. I really fear that we're about to lose a good soldier here. To the absolute detriment of all of us. It's killing me to read this thread.

Well the plot thickens. Aaron Francis has requested a trade back to Adelaide (the city), and he's still under contract. Surely the righteous AFC wouldn't dare trade for a player of such moral standing. Francis has only been at Essendon 2 years.

Sue, it's what the club said. It's not speculation. We’ve been very clear this is about performance and there was some talk it might be about money, but it’s definitely not about money, it’s about performance and our expectations on a nine-year, 150 game player. I've always been a supporter of Watts. I've even thrown around the odd "you are just anti-Watts" barb at people in my time, and found myself on the same side of the fence as you in most issues like this one. ProDee will be devastated if he realises I'm in his camp. The reason I back the club on this is because it's in reference to elements of his performance not evident to the average mug who just watches footy. I have no idea how Jack approaches training, nor do I know how he approached his rehabilitation from injury. What I do know is: 1) he was left out of the side during the pre-season, with the club citing training standards, 2) he took a long time to recover from his injury, and 3) he was left out again shortly after his return, 4) the club is, for the third time, citing "performance and expectations" as the reason for this discussion. It's enough for me to connect the dots. I'm not sure what you're referring to with standards not being applied to others. The club has not mentioned any other players not applying appropriate professional standards, and I can't tell from the outside. Are you aware of any?

I actually like his shorts. That said, I'm not remotely impressed by the reports of him spending time in Byron following his injury to attend to his business, and in doing so significantly extending his rehab period. Business, study etc should supplement a player's time at a club, not impair it.

Watts is a dee next year and for his career

Im not jumping off my demons just voting with my feet so to speak , In relation to giving the premium membership a miss if Watts goes . This reeks of another ‘Neelded’ moment to me . Goodwin mentioned when talking about Watts that the players and players association have called for player movement so that was what the club will do - could this be a hint as to why Jack is out of favour as a role model ? has he been towing the ‘union’ line in realtion to extra sessions or whatever , we dont have a perfect player onfield at our club and surely any off field stuff can be sorted out with some communication, Watts aint Jake stringer . I reckon Hogan is close with and looks up to Watts could this be the nudge to get him back to freo if his mate Jack is pushed out . Jack is in ours and most 22’s in the comp . Have you thought about him kicking bags of goals in the cats or swans jumper? We have used Jack as a swingman plugging holes really He has never played in settled plus ten win team . This is a huge mistake to offload him.

Ive emailed the club outlining why he should not be traded and that my membership will be cancelled if he goes . Say what you will but It actually makes me feel sick to think we will add Jack to the scrapheap of failed high draft picks- he is in our best 22 . We are making a mistake and he will do well elsewhere no doubt as he can with us , Jack is part of our story and we do this when its our time for finals . Handing over 600-700$ a year to watch dysfunctional club for 4 of the last 8 years with hope that guys like Watts can help turn it around and now he is being pushed out , most other clubs want him . we are making a mistake .

You'd take Dangerfield's opinion on Watts over Goodwin, McCartney, Mahoney & Jones? OK then See above - club says nothing and they'll get slammed. Completely ridiculous to believe that would be a better position.

I have a strong inkling that we have been 'recruiting' Lever for three years ever since his draft. IIRC, the Richmond doctor's assessment of Trengove's foot is the reason we didn't get Lever in the first place...

Really? Jack had some rippers the last couple years... You don't help your argument when you ignore facts that don't back up your argument...

The coach didn't say anything that everyone didn't already know - you think no-one noticed that Jack was left out of 2 pre-season matches because of his attitude? This idea that everyone out there, including other clubs, all think that Jack Watts is the greatest thing since sliced bread and if only Goody hadn't opened his mouth they still would ... it just beggars belief.

Jack, if Chris Scott, Paddy Dangerfield and Joel Selwood want you, just go. They have all experienced success and know not what winning is about. Grab the opportunity to play with Danger, Selwood and probably Ablett. You have been treated poorly by a succession of coaches and the fact that they are asking you to go is a sign of their own weakness and inability to manage you. 70% of Demonlanders want you to stay. That says it all.

I'll just leave these here...

I have two words to remind the coaches about the Watts trade - Jeremy Howe. Nominated in the all Australian squad and likely to pick up the Collingwood B&F. How come Buckley and Co can get this performance out of him and Goodwin and Co felt they needed to trade him? No one doubts Jacks talent. It's a coaches job to get the players to perform. Blaming the player is the softest option available. The coaching department seems incapable of getting the players to perform when it's most needed- witness the hopeless performances against Collingwood and Kangas- at the back end of the season to make the finals. My message to Simon Goodwin is do your job and get the best out of talented players. But then again........"i know nuthingggg"

votes are being recast as we speak

trouble with a capital T

I think you may be overrating the three players Essendon are chasing (and they still need to get the three trades done). I'd take Lever over any of those three, or even a combination.

Thurlow, yes... Stanley can't play, no way.

I do not understand how, knowing what we now know, anyone can think that the club is better off with Jack there unless they're letting their emotions get in the way. The remarks from the head of the Football Department (Mahoney) that Jack was a negative influence on the younger players were about as damning as it gets.

I have been to plenty of games where all some MFC supporters see is the tall blonde bloke not get the footy. Even when it is not his role to get the footy: 'get in there Jack FCS! Jump into that mass of small ball winning mids and win the footy... 'Where were you then, Jack?' About two metres away from the contest that Gawn and Pedersen just went up and got in each other's way and let Josh Gibson take a chest mark. Occasionally, when the footy was on the Northern Side I would hear Dees fans with depth perception issues blame Jack for not getting the footy 40m away from the contest. All this isn't to say he isn't very averse to contact but it has always been amazing to see Dees fans go to the footy and only see one player and everything he does, doesn't do or is nowhere near.

I have tried to avoid this thread but finally succumbed. I have a simple question and maybe someone has already asked, but I don't intend to read through the previous 98 pages. The question I have is "how does getting rid of JW improve us as a team? I had this same question when Neil Daniher wouldn't budge on his views of Shane Woewodin. In my view we gained nothing when that happened and I lost confidence in the coach because it appeared he had no understanding of "Team". My fear is that Goodwin wants his personal glory and success but it's more about him than the Club. JW doesn't currently meet Goodwin's idea of what he should be, but what do we lose without JW and who replaces and improves us with him gone?

All we have heard through the MFC spokespeople in the media is that they demand better preparation and higher output from Jack compared to what he's produced so far.. All i'm saying Jumbo is that there are clearly bigger issues and much finer details relating to these comments that none of us know about... As far as i'm concerned, i'd love Jack to stay if he's going to give 100% and be the best player he can be...but if the club believe it's more beneficial to our club long term to not have him there, then i'm all for the trade!

So the pro-Watts posters potting all and sundry at the club know better than Goodwin, McCartney, Mahoney & Jones?

If players are disgruntled then good. I hope they are. I hope our precious players are made to feel really uncomfortable. They are going to have to start getting uncomfortable if they want to win a flag. They are going to have to fight for everything they have. I like that. I am no Goodwin fan, but if he is starting to p*ss off our playing list then he has my full support.

After reading the big footy for narrow minded imbeciles board about Lever, Adelaide have become my new most hated club in the League. What a disgraceful way to treat an ex-player who has every right to leave after fulfilling his contract. What have they got in store for Charlie Cameron?

If Sloane isn’t signed by round 10 next year watch the whole club go into meltdown. They are just handling this so poorly

What do you expect from a club that took back Jack Gunston's Mark Bickley award after he told them he wanted a trade. http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/crows-stripped-gunston-of-award/news-story/c710d976b084a311027f22c1cbd9dbf4

Reports on AFL site that Lever's been advised not to come to the Crows B&F tonight. First they low ball him, and now they won't even buy the bloke dinner. Classy.

Hopefully not to play football for Melbourne.

only 6 pages to go will all be revealed then? stay tuned

I'm already waiting in anticipation for our game against the Crows next year. Reckon there might be a bit of niggle between Walker and Lever? Think so.

I saw him kick 6 against Box Hill. He's got the goods. He ain't no spud. Remember how Demonland bayed at Hunt for years. He was called worse than a spud: a brussel sprout even....

Why would anyone want Biclavs when we have pederson who is an actuall footballer and watts who is ten times the player than Biclavs

I have been thinking on ‘what is he worth’ (and it extends to Watts, and everyone else). A draft pick takes effort and resources to develop into a player. The pick has ‘potential’ but no evidence of performance capability. So when we think of Lever, he was a first round pick that has had investment in his development, and we believe that he has long term potential and demonstrated performance capability. We can get in draft picks and pay them a lower salary. Or else we can bring in players and pay for their development elsewhere (and hopefully decrease the risk that we take in getting them ready to go). In terms of salary, bringing in a low risk, low cost to develop option is definitely worth more than a developing young player who has yet to deliver on their potential. Players that pass through development and show that they can play move into the category of lower risk assets, and are worth additional salary. (This is where it looks like Adelaide screwed up). From a ‘trade value’ scenario, it really depends where you are relative to your list development. If there is a scarcity for specific talent that we need to complete a part of our list, then paying ‘overs’ is acceptable. If the list is shoddy or full of holes, then going for young potential through the draft is higher risk - but if you are not a serious contender is a lower cost strategy that makes sense. This is where we have been for the last decade. If you know there are higher quality talent (risk, but lower risk) in the draft, and you dont have immediate need, then trading for the right picks seems wise. List management also requires a continuous back fill of talent so that you have ‘depth’. So return to the issue at hand: What should we pay Lever and pay for Lever? Probably overs in terms of contract, and overs in terms of pure replacement pick (so a first and a second). What should we get for Watts? Probably unders - we wont get a first pick, and probably a second round pick would be appropriate. That is, unless we can find a suitor that has a specific need that they are trying to fill. He is worth more to us (if he puts the shoulder to the wheel) than his market value because of his 9 years of demonstrated ‘performance’ and unfulfilled ‘potential’. Dealing between clubs is not about ‘winning and losing’ (outcome bias), but about serving our needs. If the club determines that getting Lever for two first round picks is value to us, then so be it. It is not about the deal for Danger, Mitchell, or whomever. This just biases the conversation (and why Burton from Adelaide is a clown). Get the best you can, relative to current need, and get on with chasing the flag. Between filling a few holes in the list, and seeing some significant development in talent on the way up, I think we are well placed. We dont need too much from the draft, so the picks are better used traded out to get what we need in terms of already developed and performing talent.