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Most blokes look like they are under the influence of something every time we dance. Jesse is obviously no different. Storm in a tea cup.

This one.....

The glass was half-full last week. Now it's two fifths full.

At this point things could have been very different had we not been hampered by injury and lack of discipline. We could still play in September if we can hang together for the next few weeks and be creative in relation to our ruck strategies We have improved as a team and are playing an exciting, attacking brand of football. It is vulnerable and requires a frenzied attack on the ball. This is difficult to sustain for 4 quarters but we should have won at least two of the three games we have lost had we not kicked poorly, had injuries and lost key players due to undisciplined acts. We should be 4-1 or 5-0. That all adds up to IMPROVEMENT. Despite us losing these winnable games we are building a great ethic and an a more even contribution across the team. There is some over possessing going on but it often involves attempts at dinky handball and flukey taps. This can appear foolhardy but they must continue to do this to perfect it. It is a weapon in the modern game. We have a number of good players down on form. Viney, Tyson, Hogan We still make some poor decisions, but believe it or not, I think they are less frequent Watts has learnt how to compete in a way hat he has never done before. This injury crisis has been a watershed moment for him. He should be in the leadership group next year because he is showing that on the field. A strong Watts is a great indicator for out team and the culture. Oliver, Petracca, Salem and Hunt will be stars. Vince is still useful and has been playing under duress. I would have had him harass Dusty last night but Goodwin had other ideas. Lewis will help out down back T Mac had a shocker against Riewoldt. Riewoldt is a very clever player. Despite the current gnashing of teeth, I think Goodwin is a very good coach in the making. Creative, innovative, a good communicator and the players PLAY FOR HIM and believe in the gameplan. We know that this is crucial. You can see it in the frenzied attack on the ball. The team is the youngest in the comp. I expected to to win somewhere between 8 and 14 games but certainly didn't expect to roll into the top half of the eight in September. We can still make it if we don't lose the plot We need to have plans to replace the older players. Bernie, Jones. We also have to plan for the next age group decline. Watts, Jetta, Pedo are all in the 26-30 bracket and while they may continue to improve for a couple of years they will then begin to taper off We need at least one more project ruckman (this is very wise after the event). Obviously Flipper is nowhere near it and King is raw and not match-hardened. We have to learn from this experience. Thank god we didn't delist Spencil as some posters would have On other teams Richmond aren't that good and thy'll lose next week against the Crows Neither are Geelong but they will finish top four because of the draw and good luck. Both teams have great starts to the year and that helps Giants and Crows are the clear leaders. Essendon worry me next week but hopefully we will have a backs to the wall win. We sure deserve some luck I've done the AFL ladder predictor many times already and this is the most unpredictable of years! My last one had us eke out 12 wins and scrape in to 8th spot

Not the first time I've made a comment about him, but for those who refuse to believe he is untouchable, I want to bring a few points to the conversation. As a competent midfielder in the AFL you have to be one of the following two things: 1 - A versatile midfielder who has the right attribute diversity to play anywhere from half-back, midfield to half-forward. Examples: Jones, Lewis, Petracca etc 2 - A midfielder who has one or two really strong attributes and plays a set position/role in a side week in and week out. That player may be considered a pure inside mid, (Priddis, Kennedy, Ward) or an outsider, (Billy Stretch, Josh Kelly, Shuey, Stephen Hill). I understand there are also those that are in between. Shuey for instance is a player who I'd consider outside because of his ability to run and carry, but he can also win contested ball and win it well. Now to my mind, Dom is a pure inside mid. He is a contested ball winner who in the past has displayed really clean hands in close, winning contested ball and an ability to hit the scoreboard. That is his jam. At least it is supposed to be. However, for a player who plays such a defined and limited role, it's of my opinion that they need to play it at a very high level and consistently. This is why: When Dom doesn't display it consistently, he is an absolute liability on the field due to his weaknesses which are his two-way running ability, agility, speed and field kicking. And the fact that he can't offer anything playing forward or back. Defensively on the outside, he can't do much other than guard space as an inside mid. As average as Viney has been this year, I still think he offers more. Especially defensively. And please don't give me a tackle count. Anyone can tackle if playing solely as a contested ball winning mid. I'm talking about perceived pressure, chasing, harassing. Viney does these things very well. Oliver similarly but he is also dominating as a ball winner. Dom is the odd one out and really I think his position going forward should be questioned given the midfield we've assembled. What we now need is a really classy user. We desperately need someone in the mould of Josh Kelly. Unless Dom gets back to his best of 2014 pretty soon, I imagine he'll be back at Casey before long -(injuries aside).

Well five games in and we have 2 wins that some may rightly say barring injuries, could be five. In a season where so many of us are expecting to play finals, are we still a chance? The odds of losing 2 ruckmen so quickly are as high as Capper’s shorts. It must be a consideration when examining our performance thus far despite people saying “thats football”. I drove 800 km to go the Richmond / Dees game and I was proud to see so many Melbourne supporters. If Weids can improve and become a super third forward (Im including Watts and Hogan) then we are in a great position. Hibberd was awesome and a credit to the recruitment department and has filled a much needed hole in the defence line. Perhaps next year we can pick up another tall forward. We have all been impressed with young guns Oliver, Hunt and sometimes Harmes. Trac is improving dramatically. There are a few players not playing as expected like Viney and Tyson but there are others like Salem and Stretch who have improved this year. There are some on our list that Im not sure about who have been around for a while now a few because of injuries that will no doubt be delisted to make way for new players. So even if we don’t make finals and have the same amount of wins as last year doesn’t mean we haven’t improved. I’m convinced we have. The question to be answered is by how much. It’s so frustrating to be only 2 wins at this stage but we certainly have a talented young team that with the footy God’s blessings can achieve finals glory if not 2017 than certainly within 2 years of it. If we can just "reset" this weekend and overcome the obvious ruck problem and beat a cocky Essendon than we are still a strong chance to make it this year. Go Dees.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-26/team-of-the-week-r5-did-we-get-it-right Michael Hibberd makes TOTW. First game after 18 months and after lots of challenges. Sensational performance! Great encouragement.

Lynch has played over 100 games and is in his 7th season. Check his stats after 44 games and make a comparison.

What a stupid comment. If we had won on Monday night and Dom was best on ground nobody would be questioning his contribution. But we didn't and he wasn't, so it reasonable that the performances of senior players are scrutinised. For me, Dom is one of several key midfielders who is below his best. We can afford to carry one of them, but not three or four as was the case on Monday.

A bit late in writing this, so I'm sure most of what I want to say has already been said. No faulting the effort, but gee we played some dumb football at times. Four up in a marking contest and nobody down; not keeping our feet at crucial moments; slamming the ball on the boot 5 inches from the boundary; chains of handpasses on a wet night. We can blame injuries, and they were certainly a factor late, but so were (a) yet again, selecting players who are out of form and going in without another tall and (b) squandering so many inside 50s and so much domination in the first 50 minutes of the game. We should have been six goals up by half time, and we clearly win with what was a strong third quarter. Hibberd was fantastic, even more so for a guy who has missed so much football. Oliver would be the best player on our list if he would kick the ball occasionally. Hunt was excellent. Jones, Viney & Tyson were bitterly disappointing, particularly at key moments. Jones had a great first three weeks, but was really poor. The other two have been disappointing all year. Guys like Stretch, Neal-Bullen and Melksham get enough of the ball, but don't have enough impact. Stretch & Melksham in particular as outside players, need to take the game on more (see Hunt as an example). Hogan looked like a petulant child for most of the night, notwithstanding that he actually did cover a fair amount of ground. Compared to Watts, who just grits his teeth and gets on with on what was a really tough job, Hogan's demeanor was disappointing. Richmond haven't received much credit around here for their performance, either on the night or for the season to date, but they have been far more consistent in their effort than we have. They certainly haven't allowed teams to score 5, 6, 7 or 8 goals in a row against them at any point. We need to eradicate those bad patches from our games, even allowing for tired bodies and tired minds, before we can expect to win regularly. And finally, the Anzac Eve fixture has now gone well past Queens Birthday as the biggest H&A game we play. Full credit to everyone at Melbourne & Richmond who made this happen. It is a wonderful occasion, and a crowd of 85K will ensure it is locked in for the foreseeable future.

We've lost to three teams who have suffered two losses combined through the first five weeks. We've led in the fourth quarter of every game and have the lowest average losing margin of all clubs to have lost a game (14.7). We've won 12 quarters (fifth best in the league, the only club not currently in the top eight on the ladder to be in the top eight in that measurement). We've led Geelong and Richmond, both undefeated, in the fourth quarter despite being one/two/three down injury-wise during those games. We've done all this with Viney playing his worst five game stretch in a long time, with Lewis missing three games, with Gawn missing 2.5 games, with Hogan missing two games, with Vince missing a game (and otherwise not being that good anyway), with Watts having to ruck more than he should, with a long injury list generally and having been forced to use 31 players (equal second most in the league). None of this means we're going to make the finals or even challenge for them, but IMO talk of the season being over, or of a lack of improvement, or of Goodwin struggling, is nothing more than classic MFCSS.

When Brayshaw is well again I think he is a much better option in the middle than Tyson. Gus can do all the things Dom can plus some.

Another 5 votes on Monday (votes from both coaches). He's equal 4th the AFLCA leaderboard after round 5. AFLCA LEADERBOARD 34 Rory Sloane (Adel) 31 Joel Selwood (Geel) 29 Ollie Wines (PA) 25 Dustin Martin (Rich) 25 Clayton Oliver (Melb) 23 Zach Merrett (Ess) 21 Luke Shuey (WC) 21 Elliot Yeo (WC) 20 Patrick Dangerfield (Geel) 20 Robbie Gray (PA) 20 David Mundy (Frem)

STOP PRESS 21yo at dance festival.......... dancing.

You're such a limited football observer if you think Tyson's issues are purely pre-season related. He can't run, his field kicking is terrible and he is nowhere near aggressive enough. GWS knew which one to let go. Tyson was great in year 1, when the opposition had no idea who he was, and he was only competing against Nathan Jones as that first-possession midfielder. The opposition now know he's a left footer and that he doesn't have a right side, meanwhile Oliver and Viney have now gone ahead of him and he has no other strings to his bow. With Lewis back this week, I hope Goodwin sends Tyson back to Casey. You can't play all our slow mids at Etihad against the lightning fast bombers. We will almost certainly have to trade one of them out at the end of the year.

Your reference to Daniher speaks volumes. Daniher's emergence in his fourth season, should provide a lesson regarding writing off young key position forwards. If his stocks are low this week, I'm happy to load up.

DEMON David, you can go to http://www.melbournefc.com.au/ for official MFC coaches comments, The forum is for poster / supporters opinions

Would make quite a decent mirken ( or two ).

It's a shame, really. I felt that two years ago he was ready to take the next step and really become an elite midfielder at the club. He showed it at times last year, and he certainly knows how to find the footy, but his disposal this year has been terrible and he's not the greatest decision maker around. Plus this year he hasn't been hitting the scoreboard as much as we would like him to, although you could say that about a few of our mids this year. I don't think he's untouchable at all, and with the emergence of guys like ANB and Salem through the midfield it certainly puts the pressure on him, which it should. I still think he can get himself back to his best football but his spot within the side is no longer a guarantee.

Default setting in the software. Don't know why - to prevent like spamming I suppose. Don't know why that might be a problem, but I guess we'll find out as I've just changed it to unlimited. Like away!

I want to "like" these posts but apparently I'm over my 24 hour allotment (seriously mods what's up with that? Happens after every game win or lose. Why is there a limit on "likes"??) People need to chill out for a bit and realise we're on the right track. I posted on BF I think Melbourne supporters have gotten so used to complaining (legitimately) over the last 10 (50?) years that they don't really know how else to react to the slightest adversity. Look at the bigger picture people and focus on the positives of which there are many. The comp is very even, if we can snag a couple of wins over the next 6 weeks we'll be in a position to make a run at the finals.

We're talking about the finals they play in September right? Seriously we're 2 - 3 with a solid percentage. It's been a frustrating and disappointing three weeks but all hope is not lost. We've got to find some ways to scrape wins over the next two months and then come home like a freight train. Forget the wins and the losses thus far. We've got a list that when fit can compete with anyone. Don't be distracted by the short term misfortune. I think we have the hardest midfield in the comp. We've waited a long time to have the class and excitement of Hunt and Hibberd in our back half. Hogan will get better and better. Jeffy is up and about. Watts is a serious footballer these days. There's a piece or two of the jigsaw still being sorted but we're close. I'm certainly not writing off finals.

Lewis will play zero games at Casey. Will retire still a regular player in the MFC side.

The Importance of this guy is huge in our side with out a doubt. After last night and both the Freo and Geelong games it is clear that his calmness and leadership when the opposition comes hard is bigger than we think. Not insinuating that no Lewis no Melbourne or Lewis the messiah, but his leadership under pressure and when other teams press hard is going to be vital for The Hunts, Olivers and Petraccas and their careers. The best part is Lewis doesn't need 30 possessions a week just his expertise and footy professionalism at the contest is super for our club. Can't wait for his return. On a side note Michael Hibberd was a sight for sore eyes last night brilliance kicking out of defence was mouth watering.

Daniher was selected by a club where his family were royalty, Hogan was drafted as an underage player by a club on the other side of the country at a time where is father was extremely ill. Hogan is a year younger has played 31 less games than Daniher and is still ahead of him on all statistics. Daniher is kicking 2.4 goals a game this year, hardly a star, Jeffy is kicking that many. I'll buy as many Hogan shares you want to sell. These are the career averages. Jesse Hogan Name Joe Daniher Melbourne Demons Team Essendon Bombers Forward Position Forward 44 Career Games 75 Claremont Origin Calder Cannons February 12, 1995 Date of Birth March 4, 1994 22yr 2mth Age 23yr 1mth 195cm Height 200cm 100kg Weight 95kg 2012 Mini Draft Last Drafted In 2012 National Draft Round 1, Pick #2 Last Draft Position Round 1, Pick #10 Melbourne Demons Last Drafted By Essendon Bombers Career Stats for Season Career 44 Games 75 9.6 Kicks Per Game 7.9 4.6 Handballs Per Game 4.0 14.2 Disposals Per Game 11.9 6.9 Marks Per Game 5.7 2.1 Goals Per Game 1.6 1.3 Behinds Per Game 1.3 1.3 Tackles Per Game 1.2 0.1 Hitouts Per Game 2.1 2.3 Inside 50s Per Game 2.2 0.5 Goal Assists Per Game 0.4 0.9 Frees For Per Game 1.1 0.4 Frees Against Per Game 1.3 5.9 Contested Possessions Per Game 5.2 8.2 Uncontested Possessions Per Game 6.9 9.5 Effective Disposals Per Game 7.8 66.9% Disposal Efficiency % Per Game 65.5% 1.5 Clangers Per Game 2.7 2.1 Contested Marks Per Game 1.7 2.8 Marks Inside 50 Per Game 2.2 0.2 Clearances Per Game 0.7 0.2 Rebound 50s Per Game 0.3 1.1 One Percenters Per Game 1.7 0.1 Bounces Per Game 0.2 90.1 Time On Ground % Per Game 85.1

I don't know if an officially recorded version of this exists, but David Bridie's effort might fit the bill:

Can't believe Martin receive two votes, he only did about five good things for the night. Most of his disposals lead to turn overs either directly from him or the next possession

How good is Daisy's commentary?? She's quickly becoming one of my favourites because despite being a demon she seems to remain unbiased, and calls it as she sees it and really knows what she's talking about!

A new video of Jesse has surfaced, at the festival, where he is dancing and looks under the influence of something. It will do the rounds, and MFC will have to respond again. How the media are not leaving him alone through obviously a very tough period in his life, is beyond me. He is clearly going through the toughest time now, and every time they support idiots videoing this stuff by purchasing the content, etc, is only hurting him more. The vast majority of the AFL media are sick and pathetic, and have no duty of care for the people/families they hurt.

I'll please myself and bring it up in any thread that is of relevance. I don't mind that you disagree. But it's the basis of your disagreement that makes little sense to me. His pre-season was no more more interrupted than that of Hibberds. So how does your logic stack up? Fitness is one thing. Touch, decision making skills, disposal etc has little to do with having an interrupted pre-season. They have footballs in their hands nearly every day.

He's coming off an injury interrupted pre-season and is getting involved despite really struggling. His ceiling is a lot higher than he's given credit for. It's tiresome reading the same posts over and over again, so that's me done for this thread. We'll agree to disagree. You've got your thread to talk about Tyson. Now it won't need to be brought up in every second thread.

IMO we should have recruited a 200cm fwd-ruck - Vardy or Cameron were available to us in the ND - we could have taken Johnstone in the RD or not taken McKenna in the trade (how many HB do we really need?). I think rookieing an extra mature specialist ruck would have been less optimal.

Watts has competed as Ruck primarily as a chop out. He's not expected to win much just force a contest. Why would you play him effectively out of position and seriously decrease his impact in general play ? Bring other/s in to force the contest. Share load around. If Watts is left to carry this i can only question the sensibility of our FD.

No injuries on Monday would have done it.

It's an interesting one. Yes, injuries are killing us, especially to key personnel, but what is killing us is more about when they are happening during the game, mores than who it is to. What does that mean? Sure, we have lost our top 2 rucks, but we've lost both of these during the game in the 2nd quarter of that match. Arguably, the games we lost both rucks (Geelong and Richmond), our third quarter has been probably our best quarter. It means that Watts is doing a good job at competing, and that our midfielders are still proving to be quite dominant even when we are losing the ruck battle. The issue with losing players early to injury is that it leaves us terribly short for rotations, and that's what is costing us in the last quarter. So with that in mind, I'm very confident we can win all bar the Adelaide game. I just hope that we can get through a game with no injuries, so that it gives us a fighting chance to show it.

Imagine if both were running around now and we had Minson lumbering around in the twos doing nothing. This thread would have the same heading yet it would be lamenting the decision to get a third ruckman instead of another young midfielder, tall back etc. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

He's a lot like Trengove who is a slow mover and slow decision maker. His skills and decision making have been poor also. He's a shadow of the young Pendlebury he looked like being a few years ago, fingers crossed it's just a lack of a pre-season that is holding him back.

Can't believe we are still banging on about King coming in. He is coming back from major surgery and needs to get confidence in his body and match fit. Refer below "... going to take a bit of time to build him back into full match time". It would be irresponsible to play him this week or next for that matter. Kings career and well being needs to be considered. Don't want him to have another knee problem. Positive news is he seems to have had a good game in his return. Few more weeks of that and he might be a chance http://m.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-04-25/vfl-player-review-round-two

i think i heard last night that Eddie McChins had suggested for the 5 day breaks coming up that it is shared between 4 clubs involved ie we play esd or pies on the short break - makes it a pretty fair 5 day break between the clubs. Don't agree with him much, but i think he nailed it here

Here's how I see things playing out if we don't use Pedersen & Watts in tandem . . . The Dons kick a point or get the ball deep into attack. Leuenberger sets up on one flank and Daniher on the other. We are either forced into the corridor, out-marked, or too many of our smaller players have to fly, leaving Essendon with numbers on the ground to clear and launch again. Our defenders in a tight situation receive the ball, begin hesitating for a split second when seeing our outlets blocked, and are set upon by Essendon's attacking small forwards. We attempt to remedy this by sending our key forwards up the ground. If they capture the ball or provide an avenue out, we have no tall forwards to kick it to and turn it over or hold up the play while they get defenders back. We lose the game in an ugly fashion. Note: Richmond pulled Nankervis out of the forward-rucking in the last quarter to set up behind play at the break-downs - as they knew if Watts was committed we had no-one to compete the outlet kick. When we did break free, Garlett was our only 'tall' forward at home.

Judd thinks he's incredible. And on a side note. To maintain his clearance numbers in a team that lost its ruckman (one of them dominant) before half time in two of his five games is under appreciated. It's much easier to get your hands on the footy when you know where it's going. But to do it when the opponents ruckman is tapping it nearly every time is really tough.

As an aside, jeez Talking Footy on CH7 is a shithouse show. Sam Clure looks like a chewed up mintie and sounds like Hutchy. Luke Darcy and Carey are vacant brains with little to offer and Tim Watson is a sycophant with the personality of a squeezed lemon. Might watch a rerun of Foreign Correspondent

Barry Bourke??

Nothing against Keilty, but the fact that he's currently playing as first ruck for Casey makes a mockery of the couple of people who wanted to bring King in to the senior side. Not even ready to be the chief ruck at Casey yet. [Edit: that's from the round 1 report. By the sounds of it, King was first ruck in round 2.] Let's just leave our undeveloped rookies alone. This isn't an issue they need to be concerned with. We will have to make do with part timers until one of the big men recover.

He has been reduced to the role of a pathetic and bitter sniper. Trying to get publicity through cheap shots like that - bah just ignore the fool.

Of course it's a hindsight call, rjay. If Gawn and Spencer stay healthy then we don't have this discussion. They go down and suddenly we have 'gee, in hindsight, we're light on in the ruck division...'. We have two established ruckmen on the list and two developing. You can't plan for both established ruckmen to go down as they have. We don't know if Minson would provide us anything more in this situation than, say, Sam Frost. Minson couldn't get a run in a Dogs side that used key position players in the ruck instead. That's pretty telling. We just have to grin and bear it. Our mids are going to need to work extra hard around the stoppages as we won't be getting first use often.

Horrendous call, bing. Absolutely horrendous. If you're looking for someone to drop for Lewis, I could name about 18 players who go before Jetta.

On 3AW today, one of the footy panel said something along the lines of, this kid Oliver is going to be a star and he's only 22. They really do their homework, don't they.

Currently 2-3. If we can split the difference and turn at 5-6 we will still be mid-table, and making our own chances. We are not a top 4 side, otherwise we would 5-0 or 4-1. We are a developing side and will start to put this promising stuff together at some point. ATM we are learning the system. WHen we play it for 4 quarters, it will be a thing of beauty. But not yet... so 3-3 from the next 6 would be my call. Better than that - given our injuries and our learning curve - will be a bonus.

Just finished watching the replay. With 3:50 left on the clock we were 6 points down. Viney Jones Jetta Petracca Spencer Smith were all injured throughout the game and all played under duress yet Richmond won the game with just under 3 minutes to go. Richmond had 22 fit players playing last night. Realistically we only had 17 fit men playing. Now i see why they are the great pretenders. Wait till we have Gawn, Lewis, Kent, Brayshaw, Vandenberg all fit and firing! A warrior effort from all our boys who just kept at it right at the end. Its still hurts but im super proud.