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I have one wish. Can we have pre-season training reports without the sniping. If you can't get there to post your own report, don't criticise those that do. If you don't like the report ignore it and move on. We have lots to look forward to so let's be positive. This should not be wishful thinking.

I think that comment was a BinTang in cheek..

Worked with Riv's wife. His was offered almost rookie wages from the MFC to stay but opted to leave and play finals for Geelong. Was an assistant at the Pies last year and now has been promoted to VFL coach. He has been to a couple of functions at the club and still considers himself a Dee's player and would like to come back to the club at some stage if his coaching career takes off.

23,037 today 11/11/14 - 19,467 26/11/15 - 21,794

nope - it's just an opinion like everything else. And my opinion is pretty clear - anyone can critique a player and posters will agree or disagree with it - when a critique respectfully highlights a players flaws or shortcomings or praises the players skills to the heavens there is robust debate on it. When a poster resorts to derogatory name calling or plain nasty send off's it usually gets called out and rightly so. It is unnecessary, adds nothing to the debate and leads me to believe that the poster may struggle to formulate a well reasoned response.. If you feel it is positive posting to write "good riddance" about a delisted player then don't be surprised if other posters call you out. But hey that's just my opinion.

WJ, thanks for the info, and the last sentence, will be there with camera, will try and be a bit more 'technical' with the report.

It all starts on Monday for a limited number of players when the first wave of players will return at 9.30am at Gosch’s Paddock. TRAINING TIMES I'm sure most of you are looking forward to reading and discussing reports from training but please note the following:- Posters are asked to be polite on training threads. Personal abuse of players or other posters will not be tolerated.

He may be injury free now but you could almost guarantee that he wouldn't be by the start of the season. ...and we can't employ ex players just because we like them. He has to have a role to play. Chris is looking to continue his playing career, it will be interesting to see if another club picks him up. As far as we go, we've definitely made the right call.

Smith just did some things in a couple of games that made you think wow, this guy has pace to burn, good disposal and courage. He looked like Howe, but with speed and better contested ball-winning ability. Hearing how highly rated he is at the club rounds out the picture. It means jack if an amateur like me likes a player, but you get excited if the club is excited. I know nothing of Maynard.

My understanding is that he came back to the club out of shape and essentially gave Oscar McDonald his chance ahead of his time. Dunn couldn't recapture his good form previously, not at least until well into the season, the game evolved a bit and, by that time, Oscar showed enough to justify the investment into him for the remainder of the season. I feel sorry for Dunn because I like him. I think he'll play close to 22 games for the Pies next year. Garlett is a gun - he's absolutely out of the box when he's in form. The game has not remotely passed him by, but he definitely needs to have a better season next year than he did last season. There are few similar players to him in the league when he's in the zone, has quick supply coming into the forward 50, and has some good tall timber around him. I'm hoping he recaptures his 2015 form, if only because I love watching the guy run amok in a red and blue guernsey.

Could find himself as Head coach next year......

He was standing under the giant red cedar at Three Ways with his thumb out and so I slowed and wound down the passenger window and said g'day mate throw your surfboard in the back with mine and you and your dog jump in. I am heading to Byron for a paddle great he said me too. Wow he said it smells like treacle in here and his eyes lit up as I passed my half smoked cheroot to him. Ta he said my names Goody and my dog is Toddy. Well boys you can call me the Wolf. You look awfully familiar Goody you don't coach the Dees in your day job do ya. His laugh was lost in a cloud of blue and yellow smoke and I knew I was in for a good day. And so as we wound our way down the mountains along Wilson creek Road we talked and smoked and Toddy lay curled on the floor his eyes glazed over. Tell me about the starting 22 and the new game plan Goody I insisted. The cheroot was the real deal but I didn't think I had crossed the line well not all the way. Whose the back six Goody does Hibberd come straight in. We don't do back sixers anymore Wolf we just have one defender or really he is our keeper. Really who is it Goody. Well Wolf it has to be someone with great athletics speed power and not to much between the ears. He has to be all instinct and power. Oh well that's easy Goody its big Frosty. Yes wolf Frosty is way down back on his own knowing that he has only one role which is kill the bastards before they goal. But he cant stop them all on his own Goody I blurted as I inhaled the new cigar. Oh he is not on his own Wolfy we have the First Wave in front of him to protect him and to start our attacks. The First Wave goody I like it I can see me up there on my big mal. Wolf hang on your mixing metaphors or stonedreams or something. The first wave Wolfy has Bernie Vince in charge at the old CHB and he has the left trio and the right flank trio and they wait for his direction. The left trio is OMac Hibberd and Hunt and the right trio is TMac Prince and Salem. What dya think Wolfman each trio has a tall a runner and a kicker and Bernie is the fulcrum. Aah well Goody that's 8 behind the centre square isn't that gunna leave us short up forward and if that was the first wave is there a second or a third. Hey wolf pass that cigar over here and ill let you into the dream of footy by Goody. Okay but this better be good I need to book my September flights now. Well Wolf the second wave is in two parts the left and right Outsiders. These pairs of Outsiders are the missiles Wolf both runners and kickers on the left we have Melksham and Brayshaw and on the right Watts and Stretch pairs Wolf running as a team within a team. And the third wave is the Grunters yes Wolf big Max and Lewy Jonesy and Little Jack and they have the role to ignite us and they use the right and left trio or the right or left outsiders and like the relentless surf Wolf they surge and roll and crash and take flight. Okay Goody I am seeing it like this Frosty way down back on his own with a simple role that if it gets to him then take no prisoners. Meanwhile we have a line across the back of the square of Bernie and his two attack platoons and then across the middle eight guys four crashing and bashing and two on either side ready to run and run. Sounds great mate but that's 16 so you only have two guys up forward. Quite right Wolfy but guess who they are yes Hogan and the Truck oh [censored] Wolfy these two guys are gonna rip it up. Tuck starts in the goal square and Hogan starts way out on the left forward flank and you should see the patterns the run Wolfy it would make a dolphin cry. And so Wolfy we have 4 guys on the bench and who do you reckon they would be but first I think your bogarting that cheroot. Sorry Goldy well its easy to see whose on the bench it has to be Harmes oliver and Tyson or Kent or Garlett or Pedo bugger I don't know goldy. Well Wolf you've missed the point mate this is the sixth wave mate this is a team not four individuals they come on together and cause mayhem I call them the Chaos team and its Kenty mad as a snake Buggy mad as a rat Olly mad as a wild boar and Neville mad as wild honey. There was a strange sound in the car and it was Toddy on his back on the floor eyes rolling tongue lolling feet straight up and I swear he was singing...Its a grand old...

And may pre season be injury free please!

I had a chat to him at an after game function and you could not have found a more engaging bloke. Again, I agree, he has done a lot for this club and that should not go unnoticed

Agreed Nut, i don't think there is much doubt that Dawes has probably not delivered quite as much on field as he would have liked given the deal he came to the club on, but i think he has contributed a huge amount off the field and played a huge role in the young players development at the club, if anyone on here has the pleasure of meeting Jesse Hogan, ask him what he thinks of Dawesy and that will give you a good idea of the impact he's had, some players are recruited for more than just what they offer on field and Dawes was recruited at a time when noone wanted anything to do with the MFC it's totally unproductive to call a player names at any time, but when that player has left the club it's totally pointless, there is no doubt many people will have different opinions on his form and i am fine with that, but name calling achieves nothing. one thing i disagree with is the assertion that you have to have played AFL footy to be critical of a players form or have general discussion around that players place in the team/on the list, there are people at basically every AFL club in critical roles of the footy departments that have never played AFL footy but make these decisions. ( not that you made this assertion, i have seen it from other posters. )

I view Dunn a bit differently to Gartlett. My read on Dunn is ( rightly or wrongly) the FD didn't think he had the ability to be offensive and "create". Gartlett has everything required to play the modern game - his problem last year was lapses in form. Forward pocket is one of those positions where you can just get lost. The difference between Gartlett's first and second year is in his first year things went for him and when it didn't he made things happen. He didn't make things happen last season - I dont believe he worked hard enough.

I haven't seen the agility required from Wagner to shut down the likes of Betts and similar players. Jetta is not fast, but can change direction fairly quickly, and use this to cut off angles. Also agree with the physicality query. Have not seen one minute of Smith, but he would need to be different from his old man, to run with Betts/Wingard.

Ummm. Why the holy hell would we get rid of Jeff Garlett?! He is 27 years old and kicked us 29 goals this year. Wasn't his best year but will be better for our inclusions and anothe year into the young blokes.

Tampa started great and then hit a hole, Falcons just look good, championship game good.

Absolutely, he didn't deliver on field, for a number of reasons, so it's definitely the right time to part company, but in a respectful way, he's had a crack and not quite been up to the challenge.

And I hear all the things you have said about Dawes and I will state categorically IMO it was the right decision not to offer another contract. I will counter all the positives you have mentioned about Dawes ( although I believe they are all valid) and say he was recruited first and foremost to be play as a power forward, take marks and kick goals and that basis alone it did not work out for the club or Dawes. I think the broader point is what we see from the outside. He looked like he trained hard, he put in when he couldn't play and was in the leadership group which speaks to me that he was a respected member of the team. He did not earn a new contract but he did earn a thanks for your efforts.

This is true, and i agree it should mean he demands enough respect to stop name calling and other immature rubbish, Dawes has done a lot for our club.

Bloody well said Nut, point I have been trying to make, though the poster who makes derogatory comments usually says more about themselves than the player Chris Dawes was a top bloke, well respected around the cllub, his time with MFC just didn't work out like he and the club would have liked, for a myriad of reasons

You were gone?

I am eager to hear/read how Milkshake & Hibbo (60's crime show!?) will go coming to a new club with different training practises after a year of sub-standard training.

No doubt they will be "training the house down"

Mods? There's a number of posters here who have chosen to derail this thread with their senescent reminiscings. Time to intervene and get it back on track.

He relies on space. The modern game doesn't allow space - see Dogs GF performance for an example. Modern game requires contested ball. Garlett is great in an open game and these will occur during the season and he will look great. In finals it rarely happens. He's far from a lock IMO.

That's a bit harsh Uncle Bitters. You know Biffen still harbours hope of his acoustic career taking off. Sad to see a middle aged man hanging around pubs with a guitar trying to act like he's 20 again. Next he'll be getting onto Hirdy's anti aging gear.

I honestly don't know what our best 22 is. And I like that. 5 years ago I'd name 10 then go ... umm... Now I'm trying to fit 30 into 22 and that's without Lewis, Milkshake and Hibberd. It's a good place to be. Sorta like not caring about the top 20 in the draft.

Trenners will be very interesting to watch, i really think he is good enough to make it as a good role player, but this pre season will decide that, he needs to come back in ripping shape and move freely, his lack of speed/power is a concern especially in the modern game but slow players can still be good players i believe so time will tell. I am super excited by Smith, i watched him play three times this year and every time he really caught my eye, not so much for rackin the ball up, but just things he did that just really made you take notice, i reckon ProDee might agree with me here, but he's very strong in the air, but also has real speed and the combination of the two is what most excites me, plus he's very hard at it.

M Goatflaps

After only one year as a development coach he has the top VFL gig - he has obviously really impressed Buckley, which I suspect isn't easy. Always a big fan of Rivers as he gave his all thru the toughest of times. Didn't begrudge him leaving when he did. If coaching your own team is a key to being an AFL senior coach he is well on the way. In that respect he has a bit of a jump on his demon teammates now in coaching: Green, Neitz, Bruce, Yze. I wonder if any if them will ever be the Demons senior coach... Wish Rivers lots of success, except when they play Casey!

its very easy to make it more fan friendly. Involves use of CAT D9's

misappropriation of a curse that still VERY MUCH EXISTS MY FRIEND. The curse will well and truly lifted when we lift a cup. Simple as that.

That's the key with Smith right there. If he had all of these attributes but his attack on the footy was no better than Howe then I'd be less enthused. If you don't have a crack in this side you won't get selected. I fear for Garlett if he's not careful.

Shut-up you ninny and learn something about the game! Farrrken!

They all look dodgy to me now, except that one with the wooden smile.

Imagine him coaching with Dunny in the team. Very interesting ?

I hate to imagine your reaction if Oscar McDonald earned a coaching role after his playing career. Do you just hate defenders pf?

Mono did you prefer King Corkey or Uncle Norman as host? By the way I still think it a scandal that Professor Ratbaggy was not recognised for his contributions to science at the time! Oh and Ron Barrassi did a footy segment for kids, I still have a memory of him nuggetting his footy boots, stating that even if you can't play footy at least make sure you look like one, clean boots, shorts, jumper tucked in etc.

We've got Garlo with 160 odd games and also Peds who's been around a long time. There not the best coverage going around but the reality is we've just let our most experienced KPD go because he couldn't get a game. I think we need KPD depth but for mine it doesn't necessarily have to be older and experienced.

Barrett has been told he will be picked up by GWS as a rookie. He has been in great form in the NEAFL this year. Big possession winner, high tackle numbers. Good clearance player. I would love it if we scooped and used our first rookie pick on him. I think a club will take him as a DFA though. We would have a hard time attracting him when he would be behind all our other inside mids.

That's why I made it. Easy calls are easy calls. Jetta is our best lock down defender and has improved his attacking game, but it's still below what I'd like. His kicking and creativity is lacking. I want us to be a top 4 side, which for me means moving past players of Jetta's calibre. He's a good player, but not good enough or damaging enough with his disposal for my liking. Now, if Smith or Wagner cannot defend a small like Betts or Wingard for example as well as Jetta then Jetta stays ahead in the pecking order. But if they can then they immediately go ahead in my rankings. Now I know Smith is a bit of an unknown quantity, but I've heard that internally they rate his talent up there with Hunt and I've loved the glimpses I've seen at Casey. He has pace to burn and serious x-factor. In an ideal world my back 6 would be: Wagner O. McDonald Frost Smith T. McDonald Hibberd I have some reservations about moving Hunt to a wing, because my suspicion is he plays better behind the ball, but then I say why can't he play up the ground ? If Hunt to a wing worked it would be a gamebreaker for the Dees and really elevate the team's performance. Just my take.

I was just confused. To me it was Paul Johnson all over again - I didn't think there was a chance in heck he would get a game. He got 3 and did okay, and got the opportunity to play in 2 AFL finals, albeit losing ones, and had 7 years in the AFL system. I reckon I'd be looking back and counting myself very lucky to have gotten that far. Most don't. Good on him and good luck.

i'm not sure the world could survive another billion people we need a solution to all the useless eaters

Adam Sandler should be in Solitary such a tool...!

Anything by Adam Sandler after 50 First Dates or so. I actually don't want to watch Happy Gilmore again because I worry his modern-day crapness will retroactively make one of my favourite movies bad.