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Not sure if anyone was listening, but I called SEN this morning on the hallelujah segment and gave a HALLELUJAH TO JACK TRENGOVE BABBBYYYYYYYY Can't wait to see him run through the banner this weekend. GO DEES!

We'll be talking finals again in 33 hours.

I don't know about that, if I had the chance to take a [censored] on goal with all those people watching I'd probably rush it too!

A few stats for those interested. MFC HFC Diff Average Age 23.0 25.7 -2.7 Average Games 62.9 124.6 -61.7 Back Line Ave Age 22.3 28.7 -6.3 Ave Games 44.8 182.7 -137.8 Fol (includes wing) Ave Age 25.0 27.0 -2.0 Ave Games 103.7 153.0 -49.3 Fwd Ave Age 23.2 24.3 -1.2 Ave Games 71.3 91.7 -20.3 Int Ave Age 21.0 21.5 -0.5 Ave Games 17.8 44.5 -26.8 Melbourne Games Backline Fol Fwd Int total 0-50 3 2 3 4 12 51-100 3 2 0 0 5 101-150 0 0 3 0 3 151-200 0 1 0 0 1 200+ 0 1 0 0 1 22 HFC Games Backline Fol Fwd Int total 0-50 0 1 2 3 6 51-100 1 1 0 0 2 101-150 1 2 3 1 7 151-200 2 0 1 0 3 200+ 2 2 0 0 4 22 MFC Back HFC Fwd Diff Age 22.3 24.3 -2.0 Games 44.8 91.7 -46.8 MFC Fwd HFC Back Age 23.2 28.7 -5.5 Games 71.3 182.7 -111.3 Even though we have added much needed experience to the lineup this week we still, as expected, go into this game with no where near the same age or experience in our team and the Hawks are going to put on the park. The respective forward lines and the benches are the only place we even come close to matching them and in those areas we are still at best a season behind. Lets all hope that in this case the saying is wrong and youth and exuberance can indeed overcome old age and treachery!

Biff, have you organised this yet??

I think the Oscar bashing here is appalling. The guy has played 5 GAMES. 5 GAMES people. He's a kid in a grown up game. I heard Jade Rawlings speak about him the other night, and he asked supporters to focus on what Oscar does well, not just what he isn't doing. I for one am pleased that instead of a bloke like Garland or Dunn who have no more upside, we are blooding a guy the coaching team sees something in. Either way, the focus on a bloke that has played 5 games is absurd. Let him learn the game.

First posts don't get much better than this .

OMac has played 6 games. Do we remember Frawley at 6 games? Slow, fumbly, couldn't pick up a ball on the ground. How limited was Nathan Jones in his first season? Unless he ran in a straight line he couldn't kick, handpass or lay a tackle. The club saw what they would become and persevered bu playing them in the AFL, not in the reserves. Omac may not be a Weitering, but maybe Weitering is already close to his full potential and Omac will develop past him. Just like Viney and Ollie Wines. Omac is young, but the force is strong in this one!

Geeze, ANB has been binned pretty quickly. Bizarre. Wasn't he SA's best player or close to in the TAC Cup? A second year player who destroys it in the VFL is worth persevering with. He just hasn't been offered the same opportunities as the likes of Harmes and Hunt. Let him slide elsewhere and he is more than capable of burning us.

It's a ridculous theory.

Had pneumonia, asked him at the Lions game, still sounded crook then so not surprised its taken a while to get back.

You can't pin what happened against port, and the saints for that matter, on the back 6. The centre line was pushing right up and weren't sticking tackles, or had sprinted to put themselves in to an attacking position only to be caught out. They were out of position up the field, so the backs needed to move up and cover which left space in behind. Its team defense these days.

Hardwick might want to call the game off again...

Hawthorn, Fremantle and Norf. I just find these teams so boring to watch. To be fair, I haven't minded Fremantle lately as it's pretty fun watching them get thumped.

Life isn't always fair and unfortunately when it comes to sporting clubs - that is the case the world over. Unfortunately at the moment I suspect Goody is wielding a fair degree of influence on selections and is rightly, by him, thinking of next year or 2018. But what's annoying for us all is that Roosy has an outside chance of making the eight with this squad - this year - so why he isn't staying loyal to his senior players is beyond me. Yes we can all see that Dunn and Grimes don't have explosive speed like Frost or Harmes, but they bring other things to the side and at 29 and 27, they aren't exactly over the hill yet. They also bring certain things that are unique to their game. Dunn is a thumping kick and incredibly reliable at kick-outs which is a huge plus when Salem is out. He's a bit smaller than you'd want for a player that has to play on the ruckmen, but he's made up for it by being an incredibly clever tunneler. His two games in the VFL once dropped after Saints were huge compared to Frosts - have a look at replays if you don't believe me. Grimes is incredibly fit and has an amazingly fit, is smart, courageous and has an amazing knack of getting to contests. While the anti-Grimes lobby reckon his disposal is unreliable, he invariably has been forced to play left half-back because they don't want to expose our other man - H - who can't kick left foot at all. With Wagner in, that is no longer a problem anyway. His games in the VFL when he's not 23rd man have been unbelievable - he and Dawes tore Box Hill apart. That doesn't mean they should play, but when the alternative is a developing Oscar Mc (who looks like he will become a player, but as yet does not have AFL level awareness) or Harmes (who is hard at it and quick but not always as yet reliable with his disposal) then you wonder at what point do you hold off development and stick by your policies of rewarding the best players in the VFL. Clearly we are not. My kids were in tears last night as they watched the Trengove video - poor old Grimesy was the last one to wish him well. I still think we might beat Hawthorn to keep ourselves in the mix for the finals (they are nothing like 2015) but if Oscar and Harmesy [censored] it up, then Roosy only has himself to blame.

I understand the development angle, but when a player is so obviously out of his depth and weak in contests it raises questions as to whether selecting him is a hindrance more than a help. If you were selecting the team for a grand final being held tomorrow, who would you select, Dunn or O. McDonald ? For me the answer is clear. If it was a close decision I'd happily select the young developing player, but I don't see it that way. Oscar looks a mile off. For that reason I don't understand why Dunn or even Pedersen wasn't chosen.

You can never have too many midfielders in the modern game.

Thank you for your extensive and thorough reply.

And it only took him 797 days to get over it.

To me it just seems to go against the usual pattern of development we've brought in with young players generally learning at VFL level rather than AFL level. No one thinks there isn't potential there, but we're not gifting games based on potential anymore, so just seems a little strange that players like Michie, ANB, Dunn, Newton etc get very little chance if they underperform while OMac, Harmes, Hunt and Wagner who are all young players that weren't high picks are allowed a few off ones. Roos' whole philosophy is around competition for spots and earning games isn't it? Just feels like that has been watered down somewhat this year and we're starting to go back to giving games based on "potential" rather than performance.

We have to do that every day, what do we deserve?

That year we beat Carlton and Collingwood each three times. Probably a unique stat.

Do you set the bar really low to avoid disappointment or something? If we play like we did in those other games, we are a red hot chance to knock them off. Hawthorn of 2016 are not the unbeatable juggernaut they have been in previous years.

I must have missed something here... Dunn on his day* is an adequate defender, but he isn't the second coming of Anthony Ingerson that some are alluding to. He could just has easily been delisted at the same time as his fellow draftee Matthew Bate was and no one on DL would have batted an eyelid. He redeemed himself by playing his first really consistent season of football the next year and since then has failed to inspire the FD so much so that he's been dropped from the leadership group and can't get a game ahead of inexperienced defenders such as O Mac and Frost. There are also some giant leaps of faith in thinking his inclusion will stop us from being scored against - it didn't against the Saints where he was clearly one of the worst offenders in non adherence to team structures. He's probably disappointed not to be getting a senior game, but the FD would be more so. If you're going to poke the bear you'd want to have some good wheels and a bloody long stick. * They say every dog has his day, Dunn's was in 2014 when he finished 4th in the B&F, - just like Nathan Carroll and Matthew Warnock.

That's more of an outright brag, than anything to do with Jack Trengove.

Oh I get it LH the idea is not to win games but to give kids games no matter how the perform. Sounds like Bailey all over again.

Love the game against Carlton. Sean Wight was heroic that day. G Lyon ran Rhys-Jones off his feet. A mate - a number of years older than me- who was with me at the time cried as he thought he'd never see another granny again in his lifetime . Even though we got belted by Hawthorn, that was enough for him. He loved going to training during grand final week. Sadly, he's no longer with us. I remember Stuart Spencer's great address to the crowd at the Junction Oval at Thursday night training. After that prelim, we ended up at the Black Prince in Chapel Street. Sat with Balls, the Febey twins and their dad. Great bloke. Have to say, the night was a bit of a blur after about 830pm.

Yep, brawl at the start of the match and Shane Kerrison dropping his knees into Jimmy Stynes during the first quarter. The 88 Semi vs the Pies was awesome, huge crowd, sunny day and the result was never in doubt (to me). I loved it as a 6yo but my main memory of the day is yelling out to Chopper Lovell as he ran past on the bench warming up along the boundary and calling him Steve Febey and him giving me a funny look. The Prelim we were sat on the top tier of Waverley on the wing on a miserable day as most days at Waverley were. I don't remember this ever being in doubt either and remember Garry Lyon's torp from the centre square going through for a goal and another snap he did from the pocket. Great day at the footy as a kid knowing we were going to the Granny.

No idea what's going on within the club in regards to Dunn and the refusal to pick him on the back of playing well at VFL level and also on the back of two average games from O-Mac. I feel annoyed and frustrated that Roos hasn't come out and said anything about what it is Dunn needs work on. You hear about it when others get dropped. Garland, Watts etc.. As a member and supporter of the club, I think it's important we know what's going on when things of this nature occur. Especially given that it has now been several weeks that he has been overlooked. The selection of Frost ahead of Dunn has me even more dumbfounded given that Roos has yet again owned up to 'not having made enough changes' as well as admitting a 'lack of experience' in his boring post-match presser. Considering Garland, (our most experienced defender) is out with injury, one would think Dunn would be a direct replacement given the like-for-like experience and also Dunn's VFL form. (Which is again something I consistently hear from Roos). What msg is this sending Dunn? At this point of the season, I'm just genuinely confused and irritated by what Roos says during pressers and especially post-match interviews. I value the guy highly and believe he has done much of the steering of the ship over the last couple of years in regards to the state of the club. But as to game-day selection, tactical and strategic implementation during games and game planning in general, I have to say I believe that like Malthouse, Roos' time as a modern day AFL gameday coach is up. I've heard contradicting statements game after game during this season and the general theme after losses appears to be, 'we could have done this or that better at the selection table'. It's not good enough. It's actually pathetic. This week we have a backline of O-Mac (who is just way out of his depth and is in poor form), Frost (who is an athlete and has literally played two VFL games in defence) and T-Mac who has had a very inconsistent year. Is Roos trying to make a mockery of our chances at winning? Even if our midfield break-even, watch the ease at which Hawthorn's forwards score goals in our defensive 50 thanks to going with inexperience and bad form over experience and good form. It's almost as if I'd written and posted in a losing formula to Roos and he has gone with it.

Compare the Pairs - 2016 season averages (to & inclusive of Rnd 10) Key (Tall) defenders. Rank in parentheses Dunn / Garland / Tmac / Omac Games 4 / 6 / 10 / 3 Eff Disp 12 (2) / 9 (4) / 14.4 (1) / 10.3 (3) ED% 87 (1) / 80 (3) / 83.7 (2) / 70.1 (4) Tackles 2.5 (2) / 3.2 (1) / 1.1 (3) / 0.7 (4) 1%s 6.5 (2) / 4.0 (4) / 8.0 (1) / 4.3 (3) i50s 1.5 (1) / 0.5 (3) / 0.5 (3) / 1.0 (2) R50s 5.8 (1) / 1.8 (4) / 3.9 (2) / 2.7 (3) Kicks 10.5 / 6.0 / 10.4 / 4.3 H'balls 3.2 / 5.2 / 6.8 / 10.3 Bounces 0.5 / 0.0 / 0.6 / 0.0 Stats: Courtesy of footywire.com

Matera? Aren't you thinking of the Eagles game? Wrensted kicked the point. '88 Elimination Final highlights :

Team structure: B: small defender - key defender - third tall / mid HB: mid - key defender - mid C: mid - mid - mid HF: mid - key forward - mid F: mid - key forward - small forward Foll: ruck - mid - mid I/c: mid - mid - mid - third tall / mid You can never have enough mids!

Has anyone on this forum done an AFL review of a game? Has anyone on this forum done a review of an individual player's game at AFL level? Even if you have, you do not know what the KPI's are for O'Mac. We may think that O'Mac had a bad game, but he may have hit every goal that the FD set out for him to achieve. And while he keeps doing that he will not be dropped. People need to stop thinking that they know more about the inside of the club than the actual people running it.

I think it's a case of not all bad games being equal. If two players play badly, but one plays badly following team instructions and one plays badly ignoring team instructions, I know which player I'd hold more accountable if I were the coach. It's only speculation that this is what happened, but it's an explanation that at least makes sense. We'll never know from the outside, of course. The idea of playing OMac to get his brother to sign is silly, and beneath you. I trust you are kidding - it's dang hard to tell through text alone.

No comparisons whatsoever. Nev wasn't gifted games like O. Mac. He made it the hard way, including a delisting. No-one is saying delist O. Mac, but just let him develop at Casey until he's physically capable.

I can't understand the astonishment that surrounds Omac getting a string of games at AFL level. Dunn is obviously stronger and has a great deal more experience but he's on his last couple of years in the system. The same goes for Pedo, Grimes and possibly Garland the way he's tracking this season. The coaching staff can see the potential in Oscar, mostly on the training track and enough in the VFL to suggest that they're confident he can turn into a competent AFL standard player. What's the point of letting him become a dominant VFL level player when we've clearly got a deficiency in the backline and a dire need to blood some youngsters given the age of the aforementioned group of players. We are already vastly improved on last year and we are going to a better team again next year. If we don't get games into Oscar now, we're going to be caught behind his development trajectory and suffer next season. We seem to be hedging our bets on landing Hurley or another key back. What happens if that doesn't eventuate?

THEN... B Lynden Dunn, James Frawley, Dean Terlich HB Jack Grimes, Tom McDonald, Daniel Cross C Jack Trengove, Dom Tyson, Matt Jones HF Jack Watts, Cameron Pederson, Jimmy Toumpas F Jeremy Howe, Jack Fitzpatrick, Shannon Byrnes FOL Jake Spencer, Nathan Jones, Bernie Vince I/C Viv Michie, Alex Georgiou, Rohan Bail SUB Jay Kennedy-Harris NOW... B: Jayden Hunt, Tom McDonald, Neville Jetta HB: Tom Bugg, Oscar McDonald, Josh Wagner C: Dean Kent, Jack Trengove, Bernie Vince HF: Billy Stretch, Jack Watts, Jeff Garlett F: Christian Petracca, Jesse Hogan, Chris Dawes Foll: Max Gawn, Nathan Jones, Dom Tyson I/C: Clayton Oliver, Sam Frost, Aaron vandenBerg, James Harmes

It appears to me he doesnt do anything well now and needs a few years development.It is a bad selection.Let him learn at Casey if he has that much potential. Watched him at Traeger Park. Just appalling skills and hasn't a competetive bone in his body. So yeah i will continue to criticise OK? Oh and Rawlings is coaching possibly the most disfunctional back line in the AFL. His comments arent credible at the moment.

You're probably right. I think they seriously misjudged last week and thought we'd get over the line with the sameish team as has been playing all year. I think it has probably put a massive spanner in the works, because we'll get monstered this week running a number of players into AFL match fitness.

No, we want to give him 100 games because a football club is made up of human beings, and building culture and looking after players is important to the general success of the organisation. Why do people (not you necessarily) consistently forget that players and others in a football club aren't robots?

Poor bahstard ( him )

VDB - baffling inclusion Kennedy - baffling omission Grimes, Pedersen and Dunn - baffling non-recalls Oscar McDonald and Kent - baffling that they've stayed in Again, I'm scratching my head. Why are we bringing in THREE underdone players against Hawthorn? Just doesn't make sense.

Even for you. that was a stupid comment. If Rawlings was average. Clarkson was a spud. Ross Lyon too, Sheedy, and many others. Paul Roos picks him - but what would he know.

And he shall be known as Ostrich McDonald

Why? Every one living in Rome has a villa in Tuscany

Despite the considerable improvement we have seen this season, the team selection in some of the games this year has been curious to say the least, and in my view it has absolutely compromised our performance in certain games (those games being against the Saints, Essendon and Port). Pedersen may have missed the Port game due to match ups, but he's not the only player I'd like to know why they've gone missing. Dunn is another experienced player who's no longer in the mix. Finally finding some depth seems to have troubled the match committee.

I don't understand how other teams like Hawthorn can develop players like Sicily in their VFL team for years but we are in such a rush to develop Oscar McDonald in the AFL team when for the first time we don't need to.

I am constantly astonished that some posters think that team strategy and team selection is a one man show. Goodwin is taking over after 12 more games and its been clearly stated he will be having an even larger role as this season moves on. He was on SEN a couple of weeks ago - (The coaches box), and he said himself that the direction the team and strategy were moving in was what they hoped would stand them in good stead in the future. He said all the coaching group were heavily involved in developments and they laughed at the comments circulating that there was a tension between he and Roos with competing strategies. Roos knows the legacy he will be remembered for at Melbourne, is not about the games he wins this year, its how he sets up the future. So far it's looking way better than the previous decade.Giving the young players game time is surely aimed at next year and the years beyond. I can't imagine that Goodwin, McCartney or the other coaches are arguing against that. How about this far fetched possibility: The kids are being played early in the season against the weaker teams that we have in general faced, so they can test themselves against realistic but not impossible opposition and then understand and really work on what is required when they go back to Casey. More mature bodies will come in from here on. Maybe the club is also serious about a Casey premiership with the kids in it - to really give them a hunger for success. More likely, some of the more experienced players at Casey are there because they have to remedy long standing faults in their games. In some cases that may be impossible, but at least standards are being set.