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Having been to a couple of sessions at Maroochydore this year I'd say overall the skills look to be up a notch from this time last year. The change in training style to more footy drills and less plain running is also noticeable - This might explain why I've noticed an improvement in skills. The way I see it this could be because the players are less fatigued from the intermittent running sessions meaning less skills errors being made or because the skills are being honed more because more time is being spent on footy drills, or a combination of both. It's because of this change in training style that I find it challenging to gauge improvement across the board but I think individually it is pretty obvious who has upped the ante. Gawny, Harmes, Jones & Kent were the most obvious. Gawny is really attacking the play with Gusto, carrying on the improvement he made during the last season. If he stays fit then look out because he will make some opponents look silly. I find it hard to believe but somehow Jones has managed to get better again this year despite his injury. I'm tipping Harmes to find a regular spot this year. He just a goer and there's something about him. Kent is just all class and has got himself fitter. He impressed me last January also an just like Gawny I'm tipping him to be a real star for us this year. Of the others that have caught the eye: I like the way Bugg is going about it, he'll be a good pick up. Watts looks set to have a really good year. Oliver is a dead set ripper. Once he finds his feet he is going to make the selectors at Vic Country look silly. Love his intensity and awareness around the ball. Booming kick, and great hands. What I saw of Weidemen was pretty impressive. Good turn of foot and great hands and great foot-skills for a big guy. Mitch Clarke like but a better mark more dual-sided. Didn't see a lot of Hulett. He is another really good set shot for goal though. Tyson will poll well at the Brownlow if he can stay on the park. Overall the team looks fitter and more team oriented than last year. My first impression of training (despite being more simplistic in nature) was that we have more lefties and hard nuts on the list than this time last year. It's probably the observation that will stay with me the most as the season starts and probably a pretty good place to leave it - I can see us just sneaking into the 8 this year.

Was at training today. Watched a number of match simulations. was quite surprised with the ball movement and accuracy of foot passing skills. Namely Vander Jones White Watts Oliver Brayshaw and Vince the most convincing. The standard dropped a tad after a number of the simulations and a few of the old habits returned EG dropped marks and mis directed hanballs under pressure. I did witness the Tommy Mac incident. One of the assistant coaches was kicking long high passes into the goal square where Tommy Mac was defending. He seemed to be collected by every player in the area inc his own brother. He remained prostrate for some time with trainers in attendance but once on his feet he was directed to the rehab oval for some running to assist with his recovery. Following a few circuits he returned to the main oval and escorted Hoges to push him for some further running. Did not have any strapping. I think he is fine. Hoges on the other hand is on on very light duties and did little participation in match simulation. Some of the bigger guys such as Frost, Max King, Oscar Mac, Gawn and Spencer showed more than I was expecting today.

I really fear for people like yourself and munga and old dee. When we starting winning more than we lose, what will you do? The negativity from you guys is unrelenting. Maybe our ascent will coincide with North Melbourne's decline and you can follow them in an attempt to get your fill of doom and gloom. It's almost as if you're not happy unless you're unhappy. Roos was hired to do more than simply coach a team. He along with Jackson, Bartlett, Taylor and Mahoney have significantly altered the culture of the MFC. We are a professionally run club with a healthy focus placed on training habits, leadership, competitiveness and a team-first culture. Roos has made these areas his focus. If you can't see where we're going from here, I feel sorry for you. Our CEO is one of the best in the business. Financially we're far more sound with increased footy dept spending. Our coach is a proven architect and shaper of footy club culture. The positivity coming from the player group about Goodwin is incredible. Taylor keeps picking aggressive, skilled, athletic footballers at both ends of the draft. We have elite talent that is on brink of being realized. Now is the time, to buckle up and enjoy the ride. The love for Roos isn't unconditional, but the criticisms are focused on his pay packet, match day performance and contributions to our training sessions. I don't care how much he gets paid if the aforementioned culture is on the improve and we continue to post profits. I could easily find fault with his game day decision making but in the long term I'm more interested in the development of culture and the unearthing of quality footballers. And finally, the direction of most sports with increasing staff sizes is for the head honcho to oversee more and more and provide less hands on attention. Roos is clearly in big picture mode and Goodwin is running the gameplan side of things. And gameplans are honed during training. It makes sense that he is running the show on the training paddock. It seems to me at least that the transition with McCartney overseeing everything is working beautifully. As supporters we're not used to transitions. As Melbourne supporters we're not accustomed to being a part of cutting edge footy dept thinking. This is what it looks like.

I think it would be great story if both Grimes and Trengove could become valuable members of a resurgent Melbourne in 2016.

Harsh, bordering on cruel. When Trengove's injury was first diagnosed, he said there was a part of him that was almost 'relieved'. He didn't know what was wrong with him, he didn't know why his body wouldn't do the things he wanted it to do; he didn't know where his power, speed or ability to 'push-off' had gone. He was relieved to find out there was actually something wrong and where in his body the problem lay. It was never a matter of him saying 'my foot hurts'. He does deserve a go at his football if for no other reason than no one deserves the terrible luck that he has had this far.

The issue I have with this rule about top up players is that the AFL has gone out and given the so far exclusive right to Essendon to search out these players. This gives the perpetrator of the offence, a head start over the other clubs who have lost players but were not offenders which puts them at a disadvantage. Moreover, the decision to not take into consideration the fact that Essendon will potentially have 12 players coming back in 2017 as a factor in their draft position is also unfair given that it will likely put the perpetrators at a further advantage over rival clubs. It really is outrageous.

The similarity between Grimes and Cross is a great one. Both really strong overhead, good runners, average to poor disposal, defensively very good and will always give 100% effort. Grimes is also giving himself every opportunity to improve and have more of an impact this year due to his increased fitness and ability to cover the ground better. Its an interesting role to fill

He would be pretty devastated not being able to play. Money isn't everything, and if you're a professional footballer, no amount of money would make up for having your career destroyed by injury. Sure, he's well paid, sure he can do other things, but we should at least acknowledge how difficult and frustrating it must be for him at the moment.

I think Hardie, the author of the Crikey article, is the guy who likened the Fed Court case to cricket scores eg ASADA all out for 55, EFC 0/300. He is a sports lawyer but didn't read the score board at the Fed Court case very well: ASADA thrashed EFC! However, you would think he is sufficiently aware of the laws of libel to not write something that is incorrect about Evans...I won't quote Hardie here, just in case. To me Hardie is drawing a long bow on Evans. Hardie was hired by EFC to help them in the days of the Fed court case so one wonders why he would now drop Evans in the you know what. An interesting part of the article is: I’ve never really bought the lack of governance line -- from what I had already learnt and what I have learnt since, the program, which appeared to me to be legal, was pretty well documented for a performance-enhancement program in sport. To be clear, performance enhancement is not banned in sport, only some forms, methods and substances. To talk about the use of performance-enhancing substances misses the point; it’s better to talk about prohibited substances and others that are not. What Essendon had done was better documented than what I had seen in cycling, I had seen the records of a few doping programs in Europe and used some in my PhD thesis. The Essendon program had much better-informed and consenting athletes compared to what I had seen in cycling and to things I had learnt recently about programs run within swimming in Australia." Unfortunately, he doesn't question nor explain where the records have gone and why EFC continually say there weren't any. If the substances were not prohibited why would the records go missing, Mr Hardie?? It seems CAS found the answer. Hardie has not done the EFC nor the players any favours here...in fact the opposite. At the end of the day, CAS got it right. Everything else is grandstanding! Or sour grapes.

Because (1) we don't need it because we're AUSSIES and AUSSIES don't cheat, and (2) an AFL team got caught. Like dolphin in a tuna net. Both in violation of the Australian Constitution.

Here's the report from Range Rover on 'Ology:

I normally agree with you WYL but this is a poor post. Trengove was under immense pressure to carry the club he stood up for. When Scully legged it Trenners responded by signing on. No doubt him continuing to play was also political as far as Neeld and co attempting to save their skins. Trengove was a 20yr old caught up in a storm of shite

Harsh. He was put in an unfamiliar spot to lead this club when he was far too young. The stress and pressure he put himself to try and lead this toxic club has now now taken its toll on him (something he couldn't control) and now he is working is absolute backside off to regain his football career. He deserves every bit of success and good fortune that comes his way. He along with Jones Garland Grimes and Dunn are small sample of players still left who were went through the absolute horrors of the club during those dark years. For their loyalty and love for the club they do deserves success.

Still my greatest memory as a young Dee, it was always a dream to see us play in September and for much of my childhood it was never achievable, I enjoyed seeing us put together good runs of stringing together wins here and there and I remember 1984 when we put a really good run together mid season but by the time September was approaching we had dropped off, apart from that period in my childhood following the Dees there was nothing to really get excited about. Mid 1987 looked like just another year which was our best ever and sure I had the Night Premiership to hang my hat on. I recalled seeing the Bombers win the Night flag around 81 or 82 and I hoped we would in time develop like they did. I still don't know how it happened but as September approached it was just another year for us, we put wins together 2 became 3 and it looked like we were at least finishing the season well and maybe those kids who won the Night Flag were going to develop like the Bombers and be pushing for finals in 1989. 3 wins became 4 and now we were an outside chance, it was unlikely I knew that sure I was a Dees supporter and as a child of the 70's I didn't have the memories of those who were fortunate enough to have been born in my fathers time. So I woke up that Saturday morning expecting a galant effort but as per the norm my Dees would lose and I would again watch the kids who followed the Hawks, Roos, Blues and Bombers ( I know they didn't make it but FMD they were unbearable through those flag years) pumping their chest out through September. As usual on a Saturday me Da did some odd jobs around the house before we headed to local footy in the afternoon and I was listening to the game on radio. Da was a North Fan at the time and in between jobs he popped his head in every now and again to check the scores. Halfway through the third, I remember Da saying well your not far away now son maybe next year. I guess like many of the younger Demonlanders who have lived through the last 10 years the 70's and 80's were very much like that. Dreams never came true for us and I was resigned to missing out again. I grabbed my jacket and headed out with me Da for the drive to a local game, we listened to the game on the car radio as we always did and I still wanted my boys to get over the line desperately even if the Cats were going to ruin my day. All of a sudden it turned and we got on a roll against the Dogs I didn't start to believe but like most kids the win was all that mattered, September was something I wasn't thinking about until they kept crossing to Kardinia for score updates. Like all kids growing up in that time who didn't follow them I hated the Hawks, I wanted the kids who followed them to go through what we had for so long, at that time I wasn't aware of what their supporters had gone through for so long before the 70's and 80's, all i knew was they were the loudest supporters in the schoolyard and I hated them. But now as it was within touching distance, we were kicking away from the Dogs and I was now willing the Hawks to lift there game against the Cats and make my dream come true. My Da even said to me you boys are a chance here and he was now cheering for the Dees. I remember the roar of the crowd which at the time I thought was the final siren and a win for the Dees, but me Da said shhh!"THE HAWKS ARE IN FRONT. Those last few moments went on forever I was fearing the worst, surely it couldn't happen. We listened in silence and when the final score from Geelong came through we both gave an almighty roar. It was and still is my greatest footballing memory, at the time I never understood why my father was so enthusiastic in cheering for a team he didn't follow. Being a father now I fully understand he was sharing my dreams listening to the last quarter. The innocence of a father and son enjoying happiness together, me the sheer joy as a supporter and me Da being able to witness it as a parent. Da forked out some hard earned dollars and we were there for the elimination final which was magical and the rollercoaster kept going on for another 3 weeks. I cried my eyes out when Bucky nailed that kick at Waverley but nothing could dampen that September for me and those moments my father and I shared that Saturday afternoon in the old Kingswood. Thank god 2007 to 2013 is behind us I have memories of the dark days of the early 80's turning to August 1987 and beyond, I remember the shocking years of 96 & 97 turning to the yo-yo's of the late 90's and early noughties and the years of 2004 to 06 which were our chance that we wasted as each September approached. I may be well into my 40's but when our time comes again that crazy 15 year old kid from 1987 will appear again cheering like a lunatic kicking and handballing every possession, spoiling every entry into our defensive half and living every tackle. Go Dees

For better or worse ( probably worse ) that is what I feel about a large number of players who change clubs. I dont enjoy large parts of the sporting landscape any longer. I used to be a member of the Melbourne Tigers until they took away my team. Now i scarcely even look for the results of the NBL. The sporting world we live in is now a big business and a large part of what I loved is gone never to return . I just concentrate on the bits that are left that I have loved since I was a boy.

The WADA code also includes the expectation that sanctions will be applied against teams where individuals (2 or more) are caught out. The fact that nobody seems to be pursuing this at the moment doesn't make the code itself inadequate.

Huh?

From the training sessions i've been to, this is as good as i've seen Jack move, i didn't really see him in his first two years but he just looks so much quicker and more powerful

It's easy to be sarcastic re Dawes but you've gotta feel for the bloke. Very frustrating.

That's a low quality post, why would you post that you obviously never played any contact sport. Maybe replace the Sir with Stupidity.

The key point Goodvibes, is that many of us are in a similar positive place right now, about our beloved Demons ...... and I get the the strong feeling that our excitement is built on substance, rather than the false hope that has buoyed many of us at this time of year for far to long.

You're right. There's no need to highlight specific posters and I'm not usually in the habit of having a crack at fellow posters but I'm in a pretty positive place about my football team and whilst I agree that questioning aspects of our operation is healthy, I can't understand how so many can spend the majority of their posts finding negatives at a time when they're is so much to be positive about. My other team (Sheffield Wednesday) are also in a really positive place and it's amazing how many Wednesday supporters on their Demonland equivalent are so incessantly negative. I'm not sure if that can simply be put down to human nature or whether it goes with the territory for any team (and their supporters) that have gone through a sustained period of disappointment.

That's harsh and hindsight is a wonderful thing regards the misdiagnosis/mismanagement of his injury. We should take into consideration that he was restricted by it whilst trying to lead the team as co-captain. Who knows, it may well have been a different outcome if he was injury free during that time. He's put in the hard yards and deserves to play AFL grade football.

So Peter Gordon says he's looking at an appeal against the CAS decision by his Bulldog players. I'm not so sure that grounds for appeal exist but, I suppose that in this day and age when some legal firms can even be listed and subject to the ups and downs of the stock market, any work that comes the way of the profession is welcome.

"Paddy McCartin's the player we're going to pick," Tony Elshaug began. "After much deliberation and debate about who's going to be the best player for the next 12 years and the best player for St Kilda, Paddy's the man. He ticks all the boxes, we feel. He has power, he's aggressive, he has strong character and he's a natural forward. He knows where to lead and when to lead. He splits packs open and brings the ball to ground when he doesn't mark it. He's a great team player and he's unselfish when he gets the ball. He used to be an inconsistent set shot but he's worked hard and improved that and it's just going to keep getting better. His kicking in the field is very good. He has strong character. Everything about him stands up, so he's the one we're going with." The Saints' decision to go with McCartin is now history but it was a close thing between he and Petracca and from the Saints' point of view, the debate about the wisdom of the choice was stilled because of the latter's ACL injury 12 months ago. This article in the Age covers the decision quite thoroughly. Inside St Kilda: Why the Saints chose Paddy McCartin Alan Richardson:

Viney demands, Viney leads. All it's going to take is the club to make it official. This year or next, but the kid will lead whether chosen or not.

" .. but he's not the only one ..."

Bowie was enormously talented yet he played it down ... incredibly intelligent and his music reflected his personality. I liked his role in "Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence" too - a powerful performance. He was a man for all seasons. One of my favourite Bowie songs ... David Bowie - Ziggy Stardust RIP .

I get the concept, but il bet ya it's not the case for 10-15 players in the squad. Hogan, Jones, Gawn, Vince, Viney, T-Mac Dunn all walk into the team and would do so on pretty limited minutes and a terrible nab cup

Not only this, but he's barely played footy in the last 12 months as well. The quickest way to ruin his development would be shoving him into a forwardline, at CHF and expecting him to provide an option up and down the ground. Happy to to see him play NAB cup and then VFL. But I have an inkling he could well be starting in the vfl 2s for confidence and development reasons. But again who knows. Players that people dislike, especially H and Dawes, are locks to start in the team if fit. Especially considering H is our most experienced player on the list and will probably slot back into the half back flank which is more suited to him. My team is constantly changing but how I see it starting, given no injury list: Jetta Dunn Garland Salem TMac Lumumba Tyson Jones Brayshaw Watts Dawes Kent Frost Hogan Gartlett Gawn Vince Viney Bugg, Petracca, vandenBerg, trengove (Harmes or Stretch) i know Trengove 100% won't play but yeh

Did anyone go to training - I am looking forward to a training report!!!

After discussing Angus Brayshaw, the attention of the St. Kilda recruiters went on to Christian Petracca. I'm going to quote the part of the book below but I think it's relevant that (as I understand it) St. Kilda coach Alan Richardson is a friend of the Petracca family. On that basis it's worth noting how detached he had to be when considering potential recruits - possibly in the same way that Todd Viney had to be a couple of years earlier when looking at the Toumpas/Wines selection. It's not easy and hindsight can be wonderful at times. "Christian Petracca had been voted Metro’s best and fairest at the end of the tournament, and won the Larke Medal as Division l’s stand-out player. He had matured a lot in the last six months; Elshaug reported. He had worked his way into the midfield, his improved endurance helping him spend more time in there. Was he a full-time midfielder, like Brayshaw? Probably not, said the recruiting manager, but he was a different sort of player. 'He's still learning how to run both ways. It’s still a bit foreign to him, but he'll tackle and compete in his area. Will he pick someone up? Angus is better at that at this point, because he’s played in the backline, but having said that, Christian can do some things Angus can’t do. At the start of the year you wondered how he’d go with keeping his feet on the ground and he’s been questioned about that along the way, but he's grown up a lot over the year. I think he's a much more level-headed kid now. He lifted the team in a lot of games, he had a lot of good second halves and he’s strong, he has an AFL body. We think he could take a bit more care with his kicks at time. His penetration is fine but sometimes you think, Can you take more than two steps before you kick?, that’s all. He just needs to remember to take more care, but there's nothing actually wrong with it.' 'When you talk about growing up, what do you mean by that? Is he immature?' asked Richardson. 'He’s a little bit excitable,' said Elshaug. 'He’s funny, a character. If there’s a distraction, he might be the one causing it. There’s always something happening when he’s around.' 'He has incredible vision,' said the coach. 'Is he tough?' 'Tough enough,' said Elshaug. 'There was one ball we questioned at the MCG, but that was the first time he’d played against men. He got a bit cute that day, but I haven’t seen any sign of that since then.' 'Which one do you personally like, out of him and Brayshaw?' 'I like both, and they’re not far apart. That’s the truth.' 'I didn’t ask that ...' 'I'd have Petracca a bit ahead of Brayshaw, but Brayshaw’s the one where you say, "Jeez, you’re a really solid pick, nothing could go wrong with you." Not much could go wrong with Christian either, but one has a bit more safety about him, I think. It’s a fine line. I like them both. I don’t need to decide between them yet, do I?’"

With the Under 18 championships behind them and leading up to the 2014 AFL Draft there were six players who Tony Elshaug and his recruiting team believed had started to separate themselves from the rest, and who could wind up being worthy of the No. 1 slot. "The first four, in no particular order, were Angus Brayshaw, Paddy McCartin, Christian Petracca and Peter Wright. The other two - Isaac Heeney and Darcy Moore - were tied to Sydney and Collingwood, with Moore the son of two-time Brownlow Medallist Peter Moore and available to the Magpies as a father-son selection. Elshaugh talked through Brayshaw's form first, as some footage rolled on the war-room television. 'He's ready to go,' he said of the Vic Metro midfielder. 'He was ready to go three months ago when he was the best player against Collingwood's VFL team. He was in the leader¬ship group; he's an All Australian. He had three very good games and the others weren't bad either. He's tough, good at stoppages but he can spread and he's improved his endurance over time. He sees every¬thing around him, makes good decisions. His dad is Mark Brayshaw, who played with Claremont and North Melbourne and was the CEO there. His mum is a part-time teacher and he has brothers coming through the system as well. He's made of the right stuff.' 'Can you compare him to Josh Kelly?' asked Pelchen. 'They're very different players,' said Elshaug. 'Josh was an outside player trying to play inside, learning that. He's more of a silky-smooth player. This kid will drive it from the front and be a strong inside player.' 'He looks a bit like Josh Kennedy to me,' observed Richardson. 'He's a good size. 'He has some presence,' said Elshaug. 'He does most things well.' 'He doesn't play slow, put it that way' said Elshaug. 'He's not necessarily a quick player, but he doesn't get caught.' 'Does he look to kick quickly, or run with the ball?' asked the coach. 'Both,' said Elshaug. 'He can run with it and break away. He's got a pretty good all round game, but he's not Stephen Hill.' 'Is his endurance strong?' 'It's improved but he knows he needs to keep getting better," said Elshaug. 'If he got in the right shape and had no more injuries he’d run a good time trial at the combine, but I’m tipping he’s done most of his work already. I’m not saying he’s done, but he’s had a pretty big year to get to the point he’s at. He’s a good kid and he’s from a good family. They have strong values. His younger brother gave their mother a bit of cheek one day after a fun run, so Angus took him for a drive, dropped him off and said, "This is how far Mum had to run. See ya," and left him there. He’s been through school, he’s been through an injury. He’s handled everything that’s come his way so far. It’s hard to pick too many holes in him.'"

In: Viney, McDonald Out: Dawes, Lumumba

Was standing under the old coaches box in the Outer for that Rnd 22. Will never forget the roar that went up around the crowd as people listened intently to the Hawks-Cats game to hear the Hawks were up!

So you are pouring scorn on a poster who has a very good track record of inside industry knowledge on Dland and you are claiming TViney would put his own personal pride before professionalism and the bigger picture, that is the club he loves, that his son plays for??? Righto then.

Probably taking my post a bit too seriously mate.

Still can't get anyone to reasonably explain to me why the WADA code doesn't suit team sports.

Sorry your right, Grimes/Dawes/H? Is this a serious thread? Last year was Grimes 8th season at Melbourne, after having the captaincy taken from him so he was no longer an automatic selection, he was subsequently dropped for round 1. Came into the side round for 5 (10 touches v Freo) before being dropped for round 6. I can't be bothered going through every round as I did this exercise last year. He made his back in, got dropped again, back in before getting injured then returned for the last 3 games of the year. Let's look at those games. Round 21 v Carlton, 25 touches for 1.1 In case anyone's forgotten it was 10 goals to 2 at half time. Round 22 v Freo, 22 touches for 1.0 Freo doubled our score. They blew us off the park in the first half then just coasted. Freo sowed up top spot then went on to field the reserves in round 23. Round 23 v GWS, 24 touches for 1.0 A nothing game with both teams out of the finals race. GWS had little to no interest while we used this game to give Oscar McDonald another run, White debuted and JKH returned. I don't read too much into those three games for any of our players. (With the exception of some of our kids). How many of those kicks were penetrating kicks that set us up coming out of the back half and how many were just being chipped around. Grimes decision making seems to improve every pre season but once playing for points or under real pressure he reverts back to his old ways. He is the new Jordie, no one can fault his effort but the reality is he doesn't have the awareness/footy smarts/disposal to be a threat at AFL level. Yes some players develop later in their career but I don't think this is the case for Grimes, as I've said before players can blame Bailey and Neeld all they want for the clubs culture and lack of gameplan but not for the most fundamental basic of the game and that's kicking the footy. His ability to defend is sound but it's not enough. I don't think coaches consider him a threat when doing opposition analysis on us. Simply apply pressure and watch him butcher the ball. We need two skilled players coming off the back flanks with the potential to run through the midfield, he doesn't have the ability to do either. Tagging is also not an option as we've got blokes like Vince that can do that and damage teams going the other way. The club identified Melksham for a possible role of halfback, we also have Mitch White. I'd even try Stretch or ANB before Grimes. Our team needs to look like this MID FB THIRD MAN UP MID CHB MID MID MID MID MID CHF THIRD TALL/MID MID FF SF RUCK MID MID MID MID MID RUCK/UTILITY This is what Geelong and Hawthorn had/have and made/makes them so strong. We need players that can play mid or mid/back or mid/fwd. This flexibility makes teams hard to match up on and lessens the damage when a mid is injured. Their coaches didn't/don't tolerates passengers. Our coaches are slowly making the tough calls on players, last year it was Grimes and then later in the season Watts. They couldnt do it all at once due to the make up of our side. I wouldn't be surprised to see him left out at all, last year was a real wake up call for him. A full pre season isn't the problem. Its his lack of awareness/footy smarts/skills.

Sad old bastard.

Apparently there's 3 injuries that have come out of todays sessions. Tom Mcdonald hurt his shoulder and looks like he got a stinger but he ran laps afterwards. Terlich did a groin and wait for it... Dawes re did his calf... surprise surprise

Kent if he stays sound Hogan and Garlett is a pretty red hot Forward line .

Certainly not much between them but I wouldn't agree with your fact there. Pedersen was initially overlooked for both Frost and Dawes last year, but he got injured at the exact moment he was making his case for being the best of the bunch. Besides lack of talent the biggest issue with settling this debate is that they've rarely been fit at the same time. If he is fit I think the coaches will again pick Frost as the 2nd ruck and welcome the speed he can provide around the ground and as a defensive forward. I'm not sure if there will be room for a 2nd tall forward or if they'll pick Watts or Petracca as alternative marking targets.

Lolz... Yeah apart from the fact stats never tell the whole story, it's not exactly a domination is it? Oooooh watch out for those 0.2 more hitouts a game from the guy some posters try to say is a way better ruck option than Dawes.... Fact: Roos has, and will continue to, pick Dawes ahead of Pedo at every opportunity.

I actually like your lineup CHF. Something about Vandenberg starting as an on baller has me genuinely excited. He is an absolute brute and can't wait to see him run through a couple of GWS kids.

And as I mentioned earlier, the drummer from Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, Dallas Taylor died the same day as Frey. Speaking of Mott the Hoople, the guitarist in the band I moved to Sydney to become a part of, was the first cousin of their guitarist Mick Ralphs... he was better known for his work in Bad Company. I loved Mott the Hoople.

I watched the Open Mike episode with Robbie Flower for the first time recently (brillinat TV btw) and he was asked about Barassi. Robbie said that even though they weren't successful whilst he was coach the success of the late 80's and 90s would not have occurred if not for his influence. Said he introduced a much more professional culture from preparation, training habits, mindset and game day.His legacy was the culture he built. Said when he first arrived he stripped everything back to basics, for example doing kicking drills and using both feet. Sounds very familiar.

Gee, is good to have you back. Not just for your excellent first-hand accounts, but who else could coin a phrase like "he has actually toned his sinew" and get away with it?

This is what I believe. I beilieve....... 1. Essendon set out to structure a drug based strategy that was illegal as shown by "whatever it takes" and Hirds pursuit of undetectable drugs to assist performance. 2. Hird is a liar and needs to take responsibility for his role in the whole affair. His 'defence' of the players is hypocritical as the only thing he continues to defend is his own tattered reputation. He was one of the prime drivers of this strategy. 3. The board and the Administration at the time is also responsible for the position the club and players are in. 4. The AFL also shares responsibility for this situation as they believed they could "control" the process and outcome. 5. Dank is a bit player who is a convenient patsy. Comes across to me as dumb as a post with just as much personality. 6. The strategy employed by Essendon to delay, delay, delay has been successful as there are only 12 of the original 34 left on the list. an earlier resolution of this would have had much more impact. 7. The players collectively have played this in a very dumb way. Right from the beginning they should have realised that the ultimate responsibility for what went into their bodies is theirs and theirs alone. 8. The AFL should, if they had any guts, punish the Essendon football club for running this drug strategy. To not do so now is to allow the 34 players to accept all of the blame for this fiasco. Dank the patsy gets a life ban, the club get punished for governance short comings (as they should) Hird gets a paid holiday in France... the club collectively is responsible for an illegal performance enhancing drug program that they appear to be going unpunished for. 9. Jobe Watson's Brownlow should have been removed as soon as the verdict was given. He has no defence to retain it. if he retains it in any way shape or form it devalues and tarnishes the award for the best and fairest. Would he have been the best had it not been for the drugs and would it be fair to the others in the competition if a convicted drug cheat is adjudged the fairest? If you cannot answer 'yes' to both these questions Jobe, then give the medal back and ask for your name to be struck from the records. 10. Tracey Holmes is a dill and not an interviewer's elbow. 11. Essendon are as guilty as hell and I am going to make sure I do all i can to ensure that not $1 of mine goes to benefit them. 12. I feel not sympathy for the club or the players. They chose the path they followed and have to accept the consequences. 13. Once the players have served their punishment, they should be free to continue their careers in any way they wish. 14. The architects of the program should be banned for life from any role in sport. That is what I believe and I am not about to change those beliefs.

They are a very entertaining bunch. Like watching puppies play in a box. Except there is no way to give tham an electric shock. As you do.