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I love Jack VIney

He did it against Adelaide when they were flying, playing on one of the games best. He did it on Cotchin on a Friday night and kicked the clutch goal. Did against the Bulldogs who were going alright. And did it on the big stage against Collingwood playing on Pendlebury. I'm not saying he's our best player, I'm just saying your argument is the worst.

Have we got a black'n'white instagram pic or slide of young Jack having a go at the older school bully?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is one of the most important points most Demonlanders wallowing in pity and "the why always us " culture fail to understand. Our drafts in the early to mid 2000's along with the early moving on of leaders left us a massive void which we are struggling to fill. The future leaders now appear to be there in Viney and Brayshaw but they are AFL babies and a long way off taking this mantle. Get your house in order as Cats, Swans and Pies do and the end result is the transition from leadership group and young players not being constantly expected to carry the weight of expectation and the hardest tag. You may drop down for a rebuild but it will only be for 3 possibly 4 years not like the 9 pushing 10 we have had.

Many here can knit-pick at his odd mis-kick etc.. This bloke is so un-Melbourne and will have a huge say in changing our culture. He has heart and guts and gives 100% every minute. So many credits in the bank, it aint funny. Injuries aside, Brayshaw, Viney and Kent in the middle in the 2019 GF might be a pipe-dream, but they will stand up on the last day.

Roosy will have to line up at CHF soon enough. At least then his messages will get to the players.

Outside midfielder’s also generally take longer to adapt to senior AFL footy. There are a lot more physical contents and less time and space. Even more difficult when you are trying to slot into a battling midfield that’s not overly skilled to start with. Much smoother transition for an inside mid. Usually stronger and used to battling for contested ball. Old mate Wallace (on Future Stars) reckons the success rate for inside mids taken high in the draft is something like 85%. Can’t remember what the success rate for outside mids was concluded to be, but it was a reasonable drop off for that type of player (and a further drop off for kpp’s). As I’ve said elsewhere, the encouraging thing as far as Jimmy is concerned, is that the strengths that made him a standout as a junior, have slowly started to translate to his game in senior footy over the last month or so. Hard running, work ethic and very good disposal by foot. Development for him is continually using those strengths in game and mitigating the weaker areas of his game (disposal under pressure, defensive running, contested footy). Those weaknesses were there in his game as a junior and clearly targeted areas for development now. The majority of these kids don’t come in as the finished package and by rights should take some time. At the very least I’m seeing some improvement in his contested ball, it’s up to the coaches to help him really improve in the other areas. There’s a lot of emphasis on Wines (whose output has been fairly freakish) from the 2012 draft, but if you compare how Toumpas is tracking, relative to the other 2012 draftees, I’m comfortable with how Toumpas is going.

on a slightly different tangent jesse hogan kicks the first goal within 2 minutes of the game start he then immediately goes to the interchange wtf - how could he possibly be fatigued or even slightly puffed and who on the bench at that time could play full forward the interchange manager (if he didn't call him in, in the first place) should have sent him back out these type of decisions just baffle and frustrate me completely

I if i was Roos, i'd be keeping Toumpas in the side for the rest of the year. Big call because form should have a say, but Jimmy needs time in the seniors to continually build his self-belief on playing at the highest level without the fear of being banished to Casey. He also needs to build his belief that he should continue to take the game on, even if there are times if he turns the ball over. The confidence he showed playing in the SANFL for W-WT and his willingness to continually take the game on, is the Toumpas we need to bring out at the MFC.

You mean like the Bulldogs win? I don't believe in teams having breakout wins any more than I believe in players having breakout games. You won't be able to pinpoint the moment the club turned, it will happen through steady increments. Besides, I thought it pretty obvious that the moment we "turn" (stop getting worse and start getting better) has already happened.

Toumpas has the ability. He needs an injury free period and to be given games to build confidence. Like must young men he needs constructive comment and positive support. I like his attitude to the game and his teammates. He could become a great player in the future. We need to support Toump and our team of developing players not bag them. They offer hope for the future

Latest entrant: Maverick Weller. This one looks particularly painful. http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-06-14/viney-slams-weller-in-fierce-tackle

Really disappointed for Grimes - he was finally starting to string together some form to get his career back on track. The injury list is well and truly out of hand now. Very, very frustrating.

I think the problem is the expectation that you draft a player and he comes out of the blocks firing like Brayshaw. A great percentage of players do take 3-4 seasons to blossom. I am not sure if Toumpas will or won't make it but what I can see is he is improving week on week and at 21 I would suggest he is going to get another contract. He can panic under pressure but again - 25 games in - this can improve ( for the record Tmac, who I am a fan of, has the same "moments"). I am glad that those calling him timid have stopped - he has no problem putting his body on the line when it counts.

Jono brown and jesse are already in contact and have had conversations similar to petracca and gray,

Taylor isn't overrated at all, he's a gun.

I disagree big time with the people saying he wont live up to his draft position. If he played for the Saints on the weekend and had that game against us, half of Demonland would be calling him a future superstar and asking for the MFC to trade for him at years end. Toump will be a gun.

If he becomes a solid member of our 22 for the next 10 years i will be stoked. Because at the start of the year I must about I didn't expect him to. It is one less mid we will need to find in the off season. If Petracca and Trengove can step in as well we will be placed well to really step up as a team next year.

People seem unwilling to give Michie a proper run at things, something which he's never had. When he was given opportunity to string a few games together at the end of last season, he was more than serviceable. Not overly quick but neat skills and knows how to find the ball. Bringing in Bail or M Jones for Michie is a waste of time. We know what they bring. A bit of leg speed coupled with habitually coughing the ball up and poor decisionmaking. Give Viv a run of a few games. If he can't cut it then so be it. But geeze, give the lad a chance.

Perhaps Essendon players need to be going to their local vet instead of their GP for medical advice. Or the EFC dispose of Dr Reid and have the players head down to Flemington for check-ups. Cobalt anyone?

afl tribunal (selectively) leaking...........who'd've thunk that? i also understand some in the media have said they have access to the full detailed findings report of the tribunal on the 34 ess players when in-house doesn't really mean in-house!

And to think that some people on here thought at the start of the year that his place in the team would be in jeopardy, and he'd be superceded by the next crop of young mids. Laughable. His appetite for the contest is 2nd to none at the club, and that's something you can't teach.

He basically just tackled him by the arm, having had no choice after Weller gave him the "don't argue". It would have seriously hurt, and also happened to leave Weller no legal way of disposing of the ball. Loved it.

It's always best to wait and see with draftees and/or players who haven't been given enough opportunities - unless it's absolutely obvious and even then it's easy to jump the gun. Hogan, Brayshaw, Salem & Viney all look to have bright futures but all 4 will still need to improve a lot before we can lay claim to them being top players. Toumpas still hasn't proved himself to a large degree but who is to say whether he will prove himself to be a top player or not? My evaluation (so far) is that he runs hard to position and is creating lots of options - he likes to get his hands on the ball which is always a good sign. I'd like to think that his composure under pressure will improve as he gets more games under his belt - 30-40 more games will bring him up to the 60-70 game benchmark (when we can then confidently make a more defined evaluation) That evaluation might happen earlier if he hits his straps before that 60-70 game benchmark. Again, we just have to wait and see. I'm just happy to see him given opportunities over other players who have been given lots of opportunities previously (and have been found wanting)

Makes perfect sense. The media, EFC and AFL from day one have tried to seperate Dank and EFC and the players. They have tried to make it two seperate issues. Today they made yet another move to make Dank look like the bad guy (which he probably is). Wait a week or so and there will be more about how hard done by the players are. It is all to get the public to think how they want the public to think. EFC has been massively successful in their media campaign from day one. This is just another example of it continuing.

Yeah bring back Percy Cerutty I say.

Its kind of what we knew or suspected but it is still a shock. Dank is obviously without remorse. You have to think he is mad, a completely unethical fruit cake. There is also someone else that fits that description. And then there are the players that group of poor innocent unfortunates that no one wants to blame. And folks thought that "Whatever It Takes" was just a slogan when it meant so much more.

Irrespective of the scoreboard over the past 7 days, I just reckon we are finally seeing some Sydney-like in-close quick hands ala mid 2000s. The chain of handballs that I have witnessed against Collingwood, and now St.Kilda, have been as good as I have seen in the game....period. We still need speed by foot, and courage to take them on (read later) and maturing bodies; but I if the past week is anything to go by, our handball in heavy traffic is potentially A-grade. If we can sustain it, it will be elite. The other thing is.... If we as Melbourne supporters want to encourage our players to be more daring and brave (to take them on and break lines), we need to expect the odd holding the ball. Lumumba, McDonald, Watts and Co. just have to keep taking them on.

He's a goal kicking mid that gets lots of the ball and shuts down very good opponents. Rank him how you want, but we are very lucky to have him.

So we do show improvement and you want to shift the goal posts to suit your argument?

One thing I find intolerable now is the match day threads reading other supporters bagging out toumpas and the vitriol they harp on about. Shameful stuff. Then when others can see he turns his game around a quarter later and plays very well they cannot bring themselves to say something positive. Makes me more infuriated than our fluctuating fortunes. P1ssweak supporters, keyboard heroes who don't have it in them to support a guy trying his best. He deserves recognition when he plays well. Where are these so called supporters now?

Jimmy Toumpas?

Ok been a long time critic and so even though this is one of the worst loses I can remember I must make mention of his effort today! I thought he was terrific today, won outside and more importantly for me, inside ball and made mostly some good decisions! I hope he can go on from here because if what he provided today can be continued, then his place in the draft and promise to be lived up to will be vindicated. 1 great game in three years ! Lets see what he offers next week! And before you start gloating Dazzle man, get stuffed!!

Not sure if this has been mentioned - Tommy Mc has been nominated for 'Goal of the Year'! A bit of a surprise but it was an exciting goal. http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-06-16/mcdonald-nominated-for-goal-of-the-year If you want to vote, vote here: http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-06-16/mcdonald-nominated-for-goal-of-the-year Jack Watts can share the credit for the beautiful way he got the ball to Tommy. Well done to TMc!

I am not a Toumpas fan LH but on this occasion I think you are correct it was not his fault but he was the one left holding the bag

Not sure this was the worst Iva. Toumpas was running with Montagna but he had to leave him to tackle Lonie (who Cross was supposed to be on). Steven ran fast to the flank but his opponent, Viney didn't go with him, he just jogged forward but went to neither Lonie or Montagna to help Toumpas. As I said in post above that there were 5/6 players who 'misstepped', without any sign of desperation...Toumpas tried but he received no back up. A lot of players at fault but Toumpas was low on that list.

Hell Dr where did you get my photo?

Does anyone else think that the clash jumper actually clashed more with the saints than our regular jumper? That red strip on the side looks very similar to the Saints red strip. Another weird decision by the AFL.

Oh FFS, you act like we got thumped out the park. It was a 50/50 game, had the siren gone 30 seconds earlier we win. If you can't see the improvement since 2013 where now we expect to win games whereas back then we could only expect to not lose by more than 10 goals then I can't help you.

The last fortnight Watts has shown something he has rarely, if ever shown in the 5 years prior. A willingness to take the game on and evade through traffic. Hopefully he keeps it up and doesn't get discouraged when he gets caught with the ball (as he did on the weekend). He just needs to perfect his timing now, knowing when to get rid of the ball.

This. I watched the Swans v North game the other night & appreciated how the likes of Jetta, Parker & Rampke often stayed 2 - 4 metres off the contest, usually on the defensive side to provide an outlet receiver. With those few metres they have time to spot up an option down the ground. It's a discipline our blokes don't have yet. I watched Cross & Viney in a 2 on 2 tracking the ball towards the boundary. Cross was always going to get there first but Jack went to the ball with him, drawing his player in as well. I think the result was a contest that resulted in an out of bounds. Couldn't help but think that if that was Geelong, Viney backs Cross to get the ball & is breaking goalwards as a receiving option & setting up an inside 50. Maybe to a leading Hogan ! Our blokes are getting it - slowly - but there are plenty of positive signs for those that want to see them

The benefits of full pre seasons are abundantly clear with Jimmy. He has had a stinking run with injuries and im hoping he can keep his body in check and his improvement and form will continue as well. He works hard and uses the football really well, which help create the foundations of a good footballer. Here's hoping he can continue his form and work ethic of the last 4-5 weeks.

It was also cos Jonesy hit him on the chest

It was more than abysmal. From what I understand the idea of "match day experience" is to add some sort of appeal to the not so die hard supporters, to broaden the appeal of the game. Well, my partner who can't really stand or understand footy came to the game with me, never been before mind you. I guess she thought she should have a look at a game in real time/real life and maybe support me through another MFC Etihad experience. Of course she didn't enjoy the game and thought I should be quiet because we were in the middle of a bunch of Saint supporters. But when the music came on, the inane interviews, dance competition, make a noise "match day experience" her comment was something along the lines of "what is this pathetic BS all about". When I explained "match day experience", she just laughed and said they had to be joking...

The best match day experience is a win,

Broomhead got swept up by Jack last week

It's amazing that in his biggest haul game I felt he could've done better! Opposition defenders are already starting to realise how good he is and they're trying to stop his run at it and blocking him at contests. I hope the umpires are reviewing this as it's happening a lot in games. But jeez we've gone a gem here. 22 goals in 11 games in his first playing year.

We need to make the finals while this guy is still playing. He just screams big game player.

Can't believe we have to go to the 2 biggest wastelands of the AFL in consecutive weeks. Hardly worth the bother.

From a personal point of view I'd of thought it'd be Harmes, but that's just me. Main thing we lack is midfield depth as well as run & spread. This is something that Harmes has an ability to bring. In weeks previously with Neal-Bullen, Michie, Riley, McKenzie etc in Casey's team, Harmes was more often then not playing half forward or wing and not getting much time in the middle. His form in those positions was quite solid without being spectacular, however he's one of those players that even though he may only get 15 touches in those positions, he stands out. Case in point was our game against Richmond VFL on a Saturday Night, where he only had 14 or 15 touches, but got some really vital ones in the final term, putting the ball inside 50. The weekend gone was his first real chance to play pure inside and he had close to 30 touches, while doing a number on Uysal from Coburg who is one of their best players. His pace is very good and he's also strong overhead. So he's a player who's shown an ability to play inside & out while also at half forward, has an ability to hit the score board also. Think he's kicked maybe about 5 goals this year including 2 v Essendon. King could be everything we're looking for, however he's certainly a work in progress. Not long ago I thought he'd be gone at seasons end, so he's certainly shown me up. That forward/ruck role in a really important slot, and he's showing a potential to be the man to fill that role for us, but we shouldn't try and fast track him as he's coming from a long way back from a development point of view. He also had a bad injury last year, so giving him that 3rd year on the rookie list is no harm. Then there's Mitch White who plays another vital role we need filling as a half back with a beautiful left foot penetrating kick. Like Harmes, he seems strong overhead and although he has an awkward running style, his pace seems ok as he's normally playing on one of the opposition's small forwards. From memory he would often play on talls in the TAC Cup with Stingrays, so he could become a real valuable versatile defender. Given it's his first year this year though, I'd expect he'll get a 2nd year on the list like Harmes & King did last year. So yeah coming into this years draft which is pretty weak, it wouldn't suprise me to see us only take maybe 2 live picks in while upgrading Vandenberg & one other. In my opinion that other would be Harmes, however depending on who we get in through trades/free agency it may be more appropriate to upgrade one of the others. So the good news is for the first time ever in my memory, I think all of the rookies on our rookie list could become good players for us. But there's still a lot of water to pass under the bridge yet.