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A few people have asked about the two Demons in our development league team. I apologise for not responding earlier but it's sometimes not possible to keep up with earlier posts while posting during a game and also worrying about the iPhone running out of power. Max King, despite having the raw edges of many young lanky types is coming on well. He's in the goals every week and on Friday night got plenty of the ball as well (I'm told he had 18 touches). His marking is solid and he took another speccy this week which seems to augur well for him. I think it's unfair to hold the same expectations for him as people have for Jesse Hogan who, whilst not as tall at 195cm is very solid for a 20 year old. King has plenty of development in him and if the club can mould him into say, a Tippett type of forward foil for Hogan, then we can look forward to some high scoring excitement in the future. But that's a bit of a way off. He is currently finding it hard to break into the Casey team because of the fact that the Scorpions are fielding at least two of Jamar/Spencer/Gawn/Fitzpatrick each week and because of the good early form of Casey recruit Jordan Moncrieff who got promoted into the seniors ahead of him a few games ago and has been kicking goals and therefore kept his place in the team until now. Perhaps his chance will come next week - Coburg aren't traveling all that well so it might be his time. Jayden Hunt is being nursed through the development league team after a bad back injury. He's not showing many good signs but he certainly has pace and was impressive as a schoolboy footballer two years ago. Perhaps he needs to get his confidence back after a long time out of football but perhaps, he just doesn't have what it takes. He was a late selection in a shallow draft so it won't be a disaster for the club but I wouldn't write him off just yet.

All these people bagging the selection of Watts clearly cannot read or listen. Roos has said repeatedly - and you might recall this term - that he has exceptional "football intelligence". Clearly Roos sees the goal assists and the excellent below the knees polish that many others miss. Or you could just go back to when Watts was dropped and note Roos' comments about how you don't miss something until it's gone. So get over yourselves. I wonder how many of those pursuing the false "Watts or Grimes" option are those who have bagged Grimes' disposal in the past? I guess in defence of Howe, he has an attribute that almost no-one else has. AND FINALLY, none of us know the role every player is given on any particular day. Maybe a little less certainty in the opinions around here would be fitting.

Looks like Aussie and Liam were down in Vic over the weekend, playing alongside Flash for the Kilcunda Bass Panthers. The Walpiri Wizard bagged a lazy 6 and Aussie booted 2. Brothers in arms

Why have you never mentioned this before?

Vanders is already part of the core group - has been a real find. Hats off to the recruiters.

I really miss those boys. At one stage there, I only went to the footy to watch LJ play....

I'd guess it's because it's a man wearing it. Just a wild guess though.

The funniest thing is that these references to how many 50 game players you have and their impact on the win ratio seem remarkably similar to the comments by Neeld a few years back. Good to see Neeld is already waving his magic wand of influence at the club...

Glad Matt Jones is in. He will provide the ability to take a live ball and then kill it and lie on top of it like squirrel .Something we have been lacking .

The whole lot of them should be . For a few sessions each week until the "scars" are healed.

The Peter Matera was probably the biggest hit.. At the end of 97 he verbally agreed to joining us and I remember he basically said he was looking forward to getting stuck into pre season and all. Only to do a Mitch Clark and backflip. This is a big call but if he had joined the Dees and I reckon we would have won the flag in 1998.

Of course they want Fitzy as they can see his potential strengths and want him in their team rather than against them. If you knew that there was a guy out there capable of restricting your $7Million prize full forward to one solitary handball in a game of football, surely you would want him in your side. It is a shame that more Demonlanders cannot see the immense potential of a 200cm player like this (who is also capable of kicking goals and assisting in the ruck)!

I'm whispering that while it's very sad for Judd to cop an injury like this one, I would prefer not to see him at the club. I don't really like him and I don't like the way he conducted himself when he came across from West Coast to Victoria. He treated our club with disdain with the way in which he deigned to give the club an audience as one of his four preferred clubs when in fact, it appeared that he had already made his decision. Moreover, I don't believe his personality is suited to a role at a young club like ours.

Remembering the Wizard: Jeff Farmer's extraordinary Queen's Birthday haul for Melbourne

Imagine a forward line with Hogan and Jurrah in it... Wow.

He's different to those players, it's pretty clear.

Never apologise KC. Your efforts are stellar. The Max King reports are almost as exciting as the ANB reports (or are we officially callng him "The Business"? Cause I pretty much love that nickname)

I do that's why I asked.

Maybe Jaded is starting up a business??

This is a great article from the HUN about Garlett's resurgence this year: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jeff-garlett-loving-life-and-kicking-goals-at-melbourne-after-a-chaotic-2014-spelled-end-of-time-at-carlton/story-fnp04d70-1227387146813?login=1 I think we would all agree that there was a little trepidation about him coming to the club, as we knew what he could do on the field was something we desperately needed, but he came with some baggage. It seems as though he has turned everything around and is contributing in many positive ways for the club. Here's hoping he kicks a bag tomorrow against the filth!

You tell 'em Enyaw. It's Roos fault we are in this mess!

Boomer being his usual [censored] self. Priddis gets pinged for holding the ball and Boomer gets a free kick. Boomer then goes up behind Priddis' back, knocks the ball out of his hands and across the boundary, and throws his hands up to the umpire appealing for 50 metres. The dumbass umpire pays it. The gulf in class, respect and dignity between these two players is plain to see.

D'land at its best! Jumbo, Michie may well be VFL standard only as you say but, if he is and i'm not saying he is, there are others around him that might also deserve the badge you have bestowed upon him. CBD that statement isn't quite correct as you can see below. He isn't the highest ranked in either Goal Assists or Goals per game averages so not sure where you're getting your info from. He is up there yes but not leading them as you state. If there's any truth to Jumbo's statement about being VFL standard only, and there may well be, there others that probably also qualify (if you agree with Jumbo) who actually rank worse than Viv in many key areas. Just saying. Take a look gang. I've given you the top 5 plus i've added the regular names that come up quite often amongst D'landers as potential trade bait/VFL standard only type arguments etc as well as a few stand out new (roos drafted) players to see how they're all fairing in a comparative sense. All stats are up to and including Round 9 which is a statistically significant sample in the context of a season (stats courtesy of Footywire). Averages Per Game Tackles 1. Spencer (6.3) 2. Viney (5.3) 3. Vanders (5.1) 4. Brayshaw (4.6) 4. N Jones (4.6) 7. M Jones (4.0) 7. R. Bail (4.0) 14. Salem (3.6 in only his 2nd year!) 21. Grimes (2.5) 22. Howe (2.44) 23. Toumpas (2.4) 24. Michie (2.3) 26. Watts (2.1) Uncontested Possessions 1. Viney (14.0) 2. N Jones (12.4) 3. T-Mac (12.1) 4. Crossy (11.89) 5. Tyson (11.86) 6. Grimes (11.7) 9. Michie (10.0) 11. Toumpas (9.4) 13. Howe (9.1) 15. Salem (8.7) 16. Fitzy (8.5) 19. Bail (8.0) 22. Watts (7.0) Effective Disposals 1. Cross (15.6) 2. Viney (15.0) 3. T-Mac (14.9) 4. N Jones (14.7) 5. Tyson (13.7) 6. Fitzy (13.5) 7. Howe (13.2) 8. Grimes (13.0) 11. Michie (11.3) 16. Spencer (10.2) 20. Toumpas (9.4) 21. M Jones (9.0) 22. Watts (8.5) 23. Bail (8.3) Goal Assists 1. Michie (0.67) 1. M Jones (0.67) 3. Watts (0.63) 4. JKH (0.60) 5. Newton (0.57) Goals 1. Garlett (2.0) 2. Hulk (1.7) 3. Pedo (1.2) 4. Newton (1.0) 4. Fitzy (1.0) 6. Watts (0.63) Contested Possessions 1. Tyson (9.6) 2. N Jones (9.4) 3. Vanders (8.7... DE of 49%! ughh) 4. Crossy (8.4) 5. Vince (7.9) 10. Spencer (6.7) 12. Howe (6.1) 15. M Jones (6.0) 15. Michie (6.0) 18. Grimes (5.2) 20. Fitzy (5.0) 20. Riley (5.0) 26. Watts (4.6) 27. Toump (4.6) I'm going to get served with divorce papers if i keep going so i'll finish up here. Let me know if you want any other particular stat averages or if you would like to know where a particular player sits that isn't listed and i'll post them when the war office is absent!

Davey was a star! Rookie elevated gun that set the benchmark in forward pressure. Fulfilled his potential and then some i reckon! Also. This. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWodUcvniMI

To me, there's a touch of sadness in that photograph. Three players who potentially had great careers in front of them when they started and only one came close to fulfilling their early promise. These games in a way serve as a reminder of this. In any event, I'm not really a fan of players taking part in these one off exhibition games. It reminds me a little of how the great American athlete Jesse Owens used to run in exhibition races against horses when his career was over. I accept that it's a bit of a money spinner for the players and the club and that it brings in crowds to country games but I still think it's sad.

and we should add that whilst the social litigator is interesting reading, she is just a junior lawyer i'm sure if we could get 10 legal opinions they would all differ in interpretation and detail to some extent

The result of one game is not going to drive the selection strategy for the year.

For a sold out stadium there is a metric fuckton of empty seats. Fair weather bomber fans. Flogs.

One of the problems in any decision making process is the bias (recognised or unconscious) that people bring to the table. Because these things are open to interpretation, what one person may provide as evidence another will dismiss as irrelevant or ambiguous - particularly if it doesn't fit with their concept of what's happening. As a starting point I took it on faith that what Roos is saying is what is happening, some think he's simply making excuses to cover for his own poor performances. I disagree. Firstly he wouldn't have taken on the job if he was worried about win loss ratios because we were very, very bad when he came (i.e. he doesn't need to resort to excuses, just identify the problem). Secondly he's only here to put the train back on the tracks, it will be Goodwin's job to get it moving and finally because I think the principle of occams razor applies here. There's no conspiracy - what isn't fitting is the expectation that many supporters have of how the script should be playing out. Simply because you identify a problem doesn't mean it can be fixed immediately, it can be a slow complex process. As for a demonstration of the good versus the poor, I think someone who attends games could probably provide a better oversight because it's hard to pick up structures on T.V. (I live in Canberra - so only see about 1 match a season live), but let me provide a couple of examples. When Watts marks the ball you can see him scanning to see if players are replicating the training structures, the fact that he's has to motion with his hands for someone to lead into space is often an indicator that they're not. For whatever faults Jack may have he's a clever footballer and you can see at various stages players aren't doing what they're supposed to. Why? Have the players stopped working or are they too frightened to get separation on their opponent waiting for the inevitable turnover, are they simply scared and waiting for someone else to make a mistake rather than themselves? I suspect it's probably a combination of those things, but rarely do you see good teams when they have the ball have to wait and wait for options to present themselves. I was unfortunate enough to be at the GWS game and we were lucky in that GWS were poor in the first quarter which helped us. They turned this around in the second quarter, but we were able to at least stick to some of our structures and put on scoreboard pressure, where we lost it completely in the third was because we simply couldn't win the ball- Jones (unsighted& probably injured) Viney (injured) Tyson(poor game) and Vince (underdone) didn't get their hands on it and when they did you could visibly see that players had gone into their shells, they were unwilling to run into space to create options. When the opposition had the ball they did what they regularly did before Roos arrived, trailed 2 meters behind their direct opponent and seemed surprised when their opponent got the ball. They failed to close down space (though keep in mind GWS kicked some really arsey goals which I think mentally reinforced amongst our players that we couldn't beat them). Teams like Hawthorn (Port game) and Freo (Richmond) might have the opposition jump them, but they stick to their structures and work their way back into the game because they know they work (they also have the skill set to back it up). It's a bit of a catch 22 because I still think we lack some core skill sets to ensure that we can build confidence in the structures, but we are much better placed in this regard than we were 18 months ago.

Lockett charged me $5 when I was a kid for an autograph. He was wearing a red flannelette shirt and I remember being scared of him so I quickly handed it over. I still have the card he signed.

I second "The Buisness" and open it to the floor for a vote

Some Ford pills and a shot of castor oil does the trick for me. No need to carry baggage.

Yes, I remember & it got me thinking. Neale began his MFC career as the Head Coach of the team but it was the pre-season of 2004 when Paul Gardner was President and membership sales were poor that he was asked to get out and sell the Club. As a supporter I'll never know but it looked as though his contract had a new clause - Sell our Club to the masses - & he did! He became The Reverend and his preaching worked.

Hird did a lovely deflection when the inevitable question about his coaching came up. He basically shifted the blame to the entire coaching group and took no responsibility. What a leader.

The criteria used by the match committee apparently are not those of some of Demonland's armchair selectors. Query it, why not - it's a forum; but bag it out - why? - it's supposedly a supporters' forum. Or are you calling for the sacking of the coach and the match committee? What I'd like to know is what are the criteria guiding team selection. That would inform us of the markers to watch for, to evaluate progress. Apparently it's not down to just tackling and grunt. What IS Roos doing with our team? - what is the way forward, in his opinion? His comments recently about Jack Watts were either deceptive or they were truthful; and Watts' continuing selection suggests Roos meant what he said, at least on that occasion. So he wants an intelligent team. Ok - and what is Matt Jones bringing? Or Howe? It would be nice to come onto Demonland and learn more about what's going on, rather than just having to wade through personal prejudices that clearly are out of step with the coach's views and those of the match committee.

Interesting discussion trading Grimes. He is probably the best depth player we have, and appears to be a great clubman. A 4th round pick is about the right currency at the moment, in what has been said to be a shallow draft I would think Grimes is worth keeping over a 4th round pick. Doubt Grimes is in our top 10 paid so there is no salary benefit moving him on.

No rush.

Don't speak too soon DC, I would love to see them removed from the AFL forever. I can not stand drug cheats and all those who protect them.

I reckon Pratt might be too far past the taxidermist treatment.

"Lance Uppercut" - I tried to work it out. A lance is an oversized spike, and an uppercut is a kind of knockout blow. So what's he saying? At Essendon the "lance" obviously was a huge (number of) hypodermic(s), and we are now just waiting to see who's knocked out. I can just see that "lance" spiking upwards, over and over, into the Essendon jugular. But all the while, we have our visiting "Lance" swaggering about telling us they're fine, just fine, noone's going to get us, none of you know the rules not like I do, and so on. His name is spot on in this thread, a real guts-of-the-issue name. Because that is what it's about isn't it - that huge number of spikings. Argue till the cows come home, someone is going to have to get knocked out from this - you can't have that quantity of injections and it not end up delivering a knockout somewhere. So, who is it that LU reckons is going to be on the receiving end of the uppercut? What is he trying to hint at? Maybe the name itself's just a cypher for denial? Or intended to be a really clever ironic reference to huge spikings that he reckon won't actually hurt anyone? And, making his point via Demonland, as though that will help his cause... I just can't make sense of it, not the pitch combined with the name he chose. Uppercutting himself maybe?

Baffling selections. Probably the worst of the year. How the hell Watts and Jones keep their spot ahead of Grimes is completely and utterly disgraceful. Even i would rather a half fit Tyson then Matt Jones. I reckon Grimes will be absolutely filthy when softcocks like Watts and Howe are continuing being gifted games and putting in half ass efforts while Grimes who busts his ass every week gets bent over. What a joke.

Agree re O Mac. He took a nice strong grab at one stage and looked comfortable at this level, although at other times he seemed a bit out of place in positioning on the ground when we had the ball and were spreading, or when we were setting up for an oncoming attack. He's a good size and given a little time (nowhere near as much as a ruckman) I think he could come on pretty well. I always love seeing Harmes go at it and he didn't disappoint today when it was his turn to go.

No but you'd ban me for my best shot.

Quick, nobody say he 'will be elite' or will be a 'future star/captain''! We ain't ruining another one.

nice to see someone build for a debut rather than get gifted it

Neal-Bullen seems to be building towards his debut.

I like King, he kicked a nice goal in the NAB Cup 2014, looked a nice mover for a 200cm bloke. Has all the time in the world to put some muscle on. Definitely worth persevering with.

I think everyone who is going to say something relevant and civil in this thread has said it.

Damaged goods??? Some of these GWS kids experienced 100 point loss after 100 point loss over a 3-4 year period. They certainly seem to have bounced back okay. We can make all the excuses we like. At the end of the day, the overall list and some of the players on it are just not good enough at this stage.

Regarding Neal-Bullen I have spoke extensively with another teams recruiting manager and he thought "Neal-Bullen was the steal of the draft" Kid is a running machine, very teachable and perfectly suited as an inside mid able to run both ways all day.