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It's interesting that this thread has is its origin in the actions of a spokesman for Australia's indigenous population, which by world standards is an extreme minority (< 2% of Australia's population). The very happy irony here is that at the highest level of the sport we love, Indigenous Australians are over represented currently by something like 800%. They have a serious and spectacular talent for our 'indigenous' game, and undoubtedly provide a defining quality of Australian football. That it gives them a platform to promote their importance to Australian culture and identity is no surprise, and if Adam Goodes chooses to dance on that platform then more power to him. Even those on here who reject his gestures have to admit the significance of them. Our game is arguably the most publicly visible arena this country has for indigenous exposure. Goodes knows it, the AFL knows it, and as the haters fall away (and they will) history will treat him and the game as powerfully progressive in achieving recognition and respect for Indigenous Australians.

What 'form'? 'Form' implies consistency of performance. That is not where we are at in the first two months; the first half against GWS vs the second half, the first quarter and a bit against PA vs the rest of that game, the Dogs game coming out of nowhere after being belted for three weeks... I can see us beating the Pies and then losing to the Saints, just as readily - I can see us getting smashed by the Pies and belting the Saints. I no longer have a feeling of morbid loathing when heading into the weekend, I have an uneasy excitement, an irrational confidence that gets buttressed and stripped away as quickly as each other. Again, as this thread alludes, that is progress. But it is infuriating and embarrassing to have the juxtaposition of good football next to our failure; it wasn't a problem in the past few years...

so we are 3 and 6 after a tough start. I venture to say people would have taken that at the start of the season (having played the top 4 from last season)? How do we think we will go for the rest of the season? The good news is we only have 1 game we are 100% no chance in (away to Freo). Call me crazy but I no longer put the cats in that category especially after the weekend Other good news: we play St kilda twice, brisbane at home, carlton, and dogs again I personally think we can win 6 of the next 13 at least. Given we have beaten GC, Tiges and Dogs (all fairly convinvingly) I think we roughly know our level. Given that, I reckon we are a shout in the 2 games against the pies and we will win one of them. When Tyson, Viney, Salem are back firing I think we could go on a roll and maybe...... dare I say it..... win two games in a row!!! Go Dees!! I'll be there on Monday screaming my guts out

I think he's a greater priority than Howe. Hope he's not asking for $650k

We turn our form around substantially every week...

a keeper for me.

It's got very little to do with the forwardline IMO and everything to do with our C grade midfield.

We've been solid against the middling teams and garbage against the good ones. We are a genuine middle of the pack side on evidence this year. I expect our results in the back half to be better than the front half due to the easier draw, with a bitter disappointment or two along the way.

St Kilda has played none of the top six from last year...we've played four of them. It's a false comparison. Our win over the 'Dogs was much more comprehensive than the Saints squeaking over the line by 7 points. Let's see how they go when they hit some seriously strong opponents as we did in four of the past five weeks.

Quite a classic Demonland thread. General debate interspersed with extreme pessimism, some extreme optimism (but we lost on the weekend so the wild pessimism outweighs the wild optimism), and WYL referring to 186. IMO, our worst is no better than last year which is an enormous disappointment, but our best is better than last year and we're showing it more than we did last year. Being in the top half of the competition for time in front (if that's true) is, I think, testament to our improvement. And the fixture, though many don't like to hear it, has obviously played a role in our percentage (comparing ours to St Kilda based on the fixture to date is one of the silliest things I've read) and our results so far.

I don't think anyone is in the position to say how much he's worth; you can't do that unless you've got other players to compare it to. I really hope he stays, though. Not entirely sure why, but a vote of no confidence from Col would mean a lot more to me than it did from Frawley, Rivers, Moloney and Sylvia. Perhaps it's because it's because of his introverted, thoughtful personality type.

So on that basis would you remove children from catholic families? Child abuse happens in all communities but historically they have been removed from which families? I was a racist, I probably still have some views that could be considered racist, I am learning. I was happier as a racist now I am more aware and sad. "Ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise." Thomas Gray. You may think you are smart and happy, read more. (Not just Andrew Bolt)

Ok Hannibal, you have quoted this line in the past (in those exact words), but if you do a little searching, you will find that your paraphrasing of the original does it no justice... the original being: "AFL Players Association CEO Matt Finnis said the esteem with which Goodes is held within the playing group no doubt contributed to the strength of the response. “When you see a player who is so decorated and so accomplished a player in Adam Goodes and you see him in a vulnerable moment that’s a pretty stark reality for players,” Finnis said. “The fact that we have players voicing their disapproval towards an incident like this and we have players reporting fans from their club who make racist remarks demonstrate the progress the game has made in recent times. “But as Adam said, if racism has a face and it’s a 13-year-old girl we still have work to do.” (note the IF Hannibal) AFL CEO Andrew Demetriou agreed." It was very apparent that Goodes was referring to the fact that the media had gone on a feeding frenzy and despite his best efforts to take the heat off her via social media and press conferences, she did become the "face" connected with racist comments directed at Goodes. Of course, that doesn't suit your agenda does it, so you paraphrase to make it sound like Goodes was singling the girl out for treatment when in fact he did the exact opposite once he realised that his "attacker" was a 13 year old girl (something there was no way he could have known at the time of pointing her out in the crowd in the heat of the moment).

Apart from the fact that there are a surprising number of bigots on these forums, I haven't got much out of it that is likely to sway my opinion that Goodes did nothing wrong in being an indigenous player performing an indigenous "tribal war dance" during a match that was a part of the indigenous round as a celebration of his scoring a goal. My opinion that he did nothing untoward in partly directing that celebration at a group of Carlton supporters who had been jeering him from the opening siren up until that point in time has not and will not change. My opinion that he was right in outing the racism that was directed at him two years ago and that he would not have realised the age of the person he pointed out has not changed... although I did learn that he publicly went to the defence of the girl once he did know the details and it was the media who "crucified" her.

Saying this after the last fortnight simply shows your bias. The last two weeks Toumpas has shown great gut-running and increased courage. That's the kind of improvement that warrants re-selection. Same with Grimes, he is showing an increased tendency to take the game on and not to resort to backwards/sideways dinky kicks that he isn't capable of executing. That kind of improvement should be rewarded at the moment. McDonald's good, but I'm not sure he can take Cloke and Elliot at the same time...

Adam Goodes pointing out the girl who racially abused him. He cracked after copping the same abuse for his entire life. He later spoke of compassion for the girl. It was a hard lesson for sure but not as hard as the [censored] he and his people have had to edure for over 200 years

We have easily the worst midfield in the comp but our forward line is OKish. I'm fairly sure that our conversion rate for the number of forward 50 entries is actually pretty good. Like others here, I believe that if our midfield could approach even mediocre AFL standards we would win games consistently.

I'm just not convinced. Our draw to end last year was quite hard -- North twice, Freo, West Coast away, Geelong, Port away, which made up 7 of our last 10 games, but we still buckled against lower teams. Dare I say our capitulations this year have been Neeld-esque, albeit against very tough opposition. We didn't work anywhere near as hard against Port, Sydney and Hawthorn this year than we did last year. We've probably had one of the hardest draws to start the season. Anyone would think we'd finished top 4. Great work by the AFL scheduling Freo, Sydney, Hawthorn and Port over a five-week period... that said the team hasn't played with great conviction in any of its losses, whereas last year we gave a whelp, even against top teams. I'm just worried that we're going to end up in a spiral. To be frank if they can't get up for this week's game and instead end up getting smashed it'll be very disappointing. It's comical that we're back here after saying the same stuff before the Footscray game. "If they don't give it a go this week they never will," people said. Fact remains is that we haven't won 2 in a row for 5 years, haven't beaten Collingwood for 10 years, not to mention a few other teams, and so for me, having an "easy" draw does nothing to me. I want the team to turn a corner, not get garbage-time wins against crap sides. We should expect as much.

I am seldom amazed these days but this thread has achieved it.

Pretty sure I saw a tear in Robbo's eye too. I really enjoy Robbo's interview style. It's a good mixture of relaxed banter and asking serious questions. This one was both a trip down memory lane and a capture of the essence of Neale's cause. Great stuff.

I cannot watch Neale Daniher without tears in my eyes. What a great interview with Robbo. I loved that era of footy and admired Neale then - but more so now. I would love to Walk to the G but unfortunately I have a lunchtime wedding to attend on Monday. I will be there in spirit and have donated to this worthy cause.

Carlton To Snap Up Sepp Blatter

It didn't need a vote in parliament to establish that....

I like that Eddie has been officially labelled as a boofhead... http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/nsw-parliament-officially-labels-eddie-mcguire-a-boofhead-over-adam-goodes-remarks-20150603-ghfnal.html

It's about effort not just results. A team that picks and chooses when to have a crack is going nowhere in the future. We shouldn't be celebrating if we manage to get a few "cheap" wins when we bend right over anytime a decent team wants us to.

not as good as "some of my best friends are...."

Why very little chance against Esendon? We beat them almost every year and we will beat them again

I Googled your initially quoted "Racism has a face and it's a 13 year old girl" and came up with a grand total of 5 hits, one of which I cited above (aflplayers dot com)... the others were from Magpies dot net, a Bigfooty (mega) thread, Demonland (your quote that I linked to) and the other was in the reader comments in response to a Peter Fitzsimons article in Real Footy. Searching with your latest quote turns up a few more hits (thank you for that), but it still changes nothing to do with the fact that you are skewing it to suit your agenda. In your other post above, you conveniently left out the "but it's not her fault" in order to add some drama and to justify your stand against him. You didn't earn an apology since I could only use the selective quote you provided in that other post. Sorry Hannibal, not even close, and certainly no cigar.

It may not matter to the CAS decision but it will to what happens next. If they are found guilty, then there will be loads of sympathy for EFC and the AFL will have no hesitation in helping them out of a hole (which will be to the great disadvantage of clubs like ours). If innocent, knowing the AFL, they will probably give them an extra early draft pick to compensate for all the pain and suffering they have undergone.

Even every half...

The thing I take pleasure from is the performance of the newbies. They are consistently amongst our best players and are above expectations. That to me says that the current recruiting and coaching/development is strong. It would also suggest that Roos is right when he says the older players are struggling to let go of bad habits. I can see us winning 6 - 8 games which would be a reasonable outcome and give hope for next year.

I think this is a big part of our problem 'rpfc', we don't have enough talent running through the midfield and if one is injured that puts us even further back. There is no one to give our better mids a chop out, the work is done by a few and not the many of the better sides. Plus we don't yet have a true A grader.

Middle of the pack sure as hell beats bottom of the pack

Apart from Tyson in, I have no idea what other changes could/should be made. I just SOOOO want the team to put on an almighty effort, and make a real game of it. It may not carry the same level of rivalry that Melb/Coll games carried back when I was a lad. But, it's still THE rivalry in footy as far as I am concerned. For me, there are still two things that bring me pleasure -- one is Melb winning, and the other is Coll losing. When they happen in the same game, I am in "Dog Heaven"! Oh, how I would LOVE to be in "Dog Heaven" this Monday arvo!! And, to do it for Neale, would make it that extra bit special! My dream is to see vision of Danners in the circle with the boys after a special win, singing the song with gusto! (I can dream...!!!)

Can I just say people need to rewatch Goode's press conference after he called out that girl. He said he turned and pointed, but had not noticed it was such a young girl until it was to late. He also said while it is sad that someone young had not been taught that it isn't ok to do, if he had his time again, he would not have pointed her out.

Reminds me of a religious studies class when I was a kid... the teacher asked if anyone could name the Holy Trinity... one kid piped up with Moe, Larry and Curly.

We haven't beaten St Kilda in 10 years. We lost to them last year and they are arguably player better footy this year. Brisbane is hit and miss. The Dogs are hit and miss. We can't expect to beat bottom teams only because if we lose to them then the season is a complete waste, as we saw last season in the final 10 rounds. I didn't expect to beat any of Freo, Sydney, Hawthorn or Port but I expected effort. We just didn't see it. We capitulated in short bursts and that's what's been most disappointing, particularly in that our most experienced players were our worst players in those patches. That's not going to help us get off the bottom. When are we going to turn a corner? Beating Brisbane, GC, Bulldogs, Saints, Carlton doesn't constitute turning a corner imo. We need to beat a good team, and hopefully it starts this week against Collingwood. I expected 8 wins. I still do. But realistically I can't see us winning more than 5. If we can get 6 I'll be very surprised. My main concern is not that we get smashed by top teams. It's that we capitulate and crumble so easily. What happens if the Saints score the first 3-4 goals against us? We'll lose by 10 goals.

Like all demon supporters (even PF) I hope Toumpas makes it and I don't consider myself to be a Toumpas "basher", but he didn't have a good game on Saturday. 8 kicks and 6 handballs at 57% DE and 1 tackle is hardly setting the world on fire. IMO Toumpas lacks the pace required for such an outside player. He will never be very good on the inside due to his lack of size and strength and he panics when he gets the ball under pressure. This may be eradicated with experience and it will have to be if he is to play more than 50 games. Even in his good game against the Dogs he gave up an easy goal with a panic handball. For this week I would prefer we go with Riley, Newton and Tyson. Anyway, you are the last poster that should criticise another of bias given your open hatred of Lynden Dunn.

And it appears he still managed to get nothing out of it.

I think given we've played Hawthorn, Sydney, Freo and GWS to be 3-6 is about where I expect us to be. It's a fair indication of improvement, but also have far away we are from the top teams.

As nice as the three wins have been, I suspect our percentage is more reflective of where we are at. The fact that our percentage is more than 10% below St Kilda, despite having the same number of wins, is damning and shows that we still don't have a group which is prepared to work hard enough for long enough. Regardless of our win / loss record for the remainder of the year, it would be hard to judge this as a successful year if our percentage doesn't finish above 80. Oh, and despite breaking 100 twice this year, we still have the worst forward line in the competition.

I like Toump. Runs hard to get to contests and hes a lovely kick. He also goes when its his turn. It will all click for him soon. Fark the haters.

There's nothing wrong with not rating Toumpas highly (I don't either), we just don't need to read about it every second thread.

Hang on a minute. I haven't had a holiday since April and now I've got another three and a half weeks before I get another couple of weeks off. Fair go! What do you expect of us? We spend our days with kids ffs..

Just gone off you Biffen. Teachers on Demonland provide the intelligent, considered opinions plus we correct your spelling mistakes. For those tasks alone we need 10 weeks annual leave.

What does a Nacho have to do with it?

This is total garbage and mythology. The voting was rigged by excluding MFC members who had not bothered to reply to the letter and those who could not fit into the room on the night. Don't forget also that many MFC supporters are MCC members who don't bother to pay to join the MFC as well because they get in to all the MCG games and did not have a vote. Most MFC supporters and members were totally opposed to the merger. The media has presented this in another light.

There is no doubt that if we don't improve and he can't see himself winning a flag here, that he will leave. He's too good to waste his time at a bottom feeder club, and will earn bucket loads no matter where he goes. If we don't get our [censored] together, he will leave, and supporters will follow him. Fair to say that losing Hogan could be the final straw for most supporters. It will probably be for me.

IMO Roosy needs to stop giving the players an excuse. He has repeatedly told us that we can't compete with the top teams because we don't have the talent. Going into the games against Freo, Hawks, Sydney it was almost like the players didn't expect to win so they didn't have much of a crack. Likewise against Port, it was like the players dropped their heads after half time because Port were a top 4 team last year so it was ok to loose to them. Every team should be considered gettable. 18 blokes v 18 blokes. It may not be realistic but it should be the ingrained in the players thinking. I don't see that at Melbourne at the moment.

I used to think it was an escape from the real world Dr. As a Dees supporter I now see the real world as an escape from the horror of the football world