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I've been thinking recently about the players Melbourne has lost to free agency and the impact that this has had on the team, now and into the future. If this is all a bit TLDR for you than skip past the Geelong and Hawthorn bits, but I thought they make for interesting comparisons. In recent years, Geelong and Hawthorn have risen to powerhouse status with three flags apiece since 2007. There are a range of reasons for their success, but two different factors played significant roles in their rise. Geelong had the benefit of some extraordinary father-son selections at the draft table. Between 1997 and 2006 in the decade leading up to their drought-breaking flag, the Cats took the following players under the father-son rule: 1997: Marc Woolnough #29 1997: Matthew Scarlett #45 1998: David Clarke #21 2001: Gary Ablett Jr #40 2002: Tim Callan #36 2003: Mark Blake #38 2004: Nathan Ablett #48 2006: Tom Hawkins #41 While the list isn't quite as impressive as I remembered, to be able to take the likes of Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins with third round picks was immense for them, and once they had started winning flags, the rule changed. In the years leading up to 2008 while they were trying to assemble a premiership list, Hawthorn nailed some early picks, used some good old-fashioned tanking (or list management as I prefer it to be called), but importantly traded away players with currency for high draft picks. After a series of heists, the league gradually woke up to the danger of trading away your best picks for players who aren't worth the price, and we don't see many of these trades anymore. See below: 1999: Traded Jonathon Robran to Essendon for #33 (Tim Clarke) and #48 (2008 premiership player Chance Bateman) 2001: Traded Trent Croad and Luke McPharlin to Fremantle for #1 (Luke Hodge), #20 (Daniel Elstone) and #36 (Sam Mitchell) 2002: Traded Daniel Chick to West Coast for #8 (Luke Brennan) 2004: Traded Nathan Thompson to North Melbourne for picks #10 and #26 (Matthew Little), then flipped #10 and Bo Nixon to Collingwood for #7 (Jordan Lewis) 2005: Traded Nathan Lonie to Port Adelaide for #14 (Grant Birchall) 2005: Traded Jonathan Hay to North Melbourne for #18 (Max Bailey) They didn't nail all of those picks (and others which don't fit in the above like the drafting of Mitch Thorp and Beau Dowler), which is somewhat comforting to know that you can still win flags while making some errors in drafting. Since the end of 2011, with Melbourne being a less than desirable club of choice for players with freedom to choose, and perhaps a willingness of Melbourne to let some players go in order to receive compensation, we've seen melbourne lose several players who had either been key players for the club at one point or were going to be. Here's a look at what we've lost and what we gained in return via compensation: 2011-12: Melbourne loses Tom Scully to GWS under expansion poaching. Melbourne receives a future first round pick after our own pick (2012 pick 3) and a future mid-first round pick (2012 pick 14). In 2012, Melbourne traded both these picks to GWS for Mini-draft pick 2 (Jesse Hogan), Dom Barry and pick 20. Melbourne then traded picks 20 and 47 for Chris Dawes and pick 61. Essentially, Melbourne traded Tom Scully for Jesse Hogan and Chris Dawes. 2012: Melbourne loses Jared Rivers to Geelong and Brent Moloney to Brisbane, receiving pick 48 in return (Dean Kent). 2013: Melbourne loses Colin Sylvia to Fremantle and receives pick 23. Melbourne trades pick 23 to Adelaide for Bernie Vince. 2014: Melbourne loses James Frawley to Hawthorn and receives pick 3 (Angus Brayshaw). So over the course of four offseasons, Melbourne lost Tom Scully, Jared Rivers, Brent Moloney (now retired), Colin Sylvia (now retired) and James Frawley. In return we've netted Jesse Hogan, Chris Dawes, Dean Kent, Bernie Vince and Angus Brayshaw. I'm not going to suggest that this automatically means we're going to start a raging dynasty like the Hawks or Cats, but I feel that as rules change and new systems are implemented, you have to adapt quickly and try to gain an edge by adapting fastest. I think Melbourne has made some outstanding moves out of potentially damaging situations, and decisions that will no doubt be scrutinised and held up as genius ideas if we win a flag in the next 5 to 8 years. It goes without saying that of course you have to do other things well, whether that's drafting the right kids, developing them, trading well and getting everything right off-field. Whether other clubs will be able to copy Melbourne in this regard remains to be seen. Free agency is still in its infancy in the AFL, and in the next few years we may see it scrapped altogether, or watered down to something akin to the NFL where compensatory picks are awarded in the third to seventh round the season following a club's losses. The AFL shouldn't be hasty in abolishing or watering down compensation picks in my view. Many of us here have discussed the potential for an even more uneven competition if this occurs, with players bolting from weaker clubs to join the more successful. It will make for interesting observation anyhow. All in all, hats off to Melbourne here. We've played this incredibly well.

The bad news is it's the other foot. The good news is he now has two bad feet.

This is why I love Demonland!! The only thing we agree on is the misfortune of others!!

Always happy to take one for the team!

Are we playing for the Colin Sylvia trophy on Sunday?

is he doing what i think he is?

I agree, it's a real pain in the foot.

There's ANOTHER forum?

Look, lay off. Players enjoy it as long as people aren't being a dick about it. They work hard to get where they are and like to talk about what they do, even if it is in a joking and self deprecating style. How do I know this? I grew up surrounded by the greats of the club. At most BBQ's there was at least one or two greats of the 50's and 60's there. Norm Smith was at my parents wedding. Why is that, you ask? Because my uncle is a triple premiership player that later captained the club. Do the maths and you'll know who I am talking about. Leave DVI alone, FFS. They talk to him because they like talking to him, and because he talks to them as humans rather than demi gods. Which, funnily enough, is they way they prefer. PM me if you really want proof, but for those that only want to argue the point don't be butthurt when I ignore you.

Take your pick: "A rabbit cannot ride a horse. You can't always get what you want, but you can get what you need. And once you've got what you need, you can swap it for what you want." "If you fall off the donkey 7 times, you must bounce back up 8 times. BUT - if you fall off the donkey 10 times, you're not cut out for riding donkeys..." I asked the Supreme Master: "Supreme Master, why does Collingwood have any fans at all? He replied: "Guru Bob. Why does an ugly child, have a mother who loves it? Think about that. "when it's all said and done, when it comes to the end of the day the night comes, and then a new day begins..." After the famous Bible story of David and Goliath, it is reported that the newspapers said the following day: "He didn't need many possessions, but gee, his efficiency percentage was good". It was 7th century Chinese thinker Yang Tang who said: "you know the expression 'you can't have your cake and eat it too'? Well, what is the point of having your cake if you can't eat it?" The Supreme Master reminds us: "Certain players never know when they're beaten. Some players don't know when they're winning either. 'Cos some players have no idea of what's going on at all" "As Agamemnon said when the Achaians drafted Achilles for the Trojan war... 'He can run around and jump up and down, but can he get the ball?'. He turned out to be a handy player who could be used in a variety of positions."

Good story. Reminds me that he and Jordie McKenzie attended a community get-together in our suburb not far from the G on a Sunday afternoon in November a couple of years ago. We approached Richmond first and they wouldn't be in it, but Melbourne offered Col and Jordie. They were both terrific, and Col was very engaging with everyone, esp the kids. Didn't stop me growling to myself in the grandstands about his footy over the journey, but good on him for his contribution to our festival on his day off.

Oh for Christ's Sake, give it a rest you Moron. We get it....you don't like the Toump. Did he go out with your sister?

My best mate, who is good friends with Jesse is very much under my instructions to organise some chance encounters with some of her friends.

I know some of you think I am talking through my hat on this and have been asked on here and through private email to rank out of ten what the chances of a successful WADA appeal to CAS might be. At the moment I would put it at an 8. I am currently researching the internal processes of both WADA and CAS, and will post a detailed piece on this in the next couple of days. From this I am even more confident they will act. I quote in the piece John Coates, VP of the IOC, president of the AOC, and even more interestingly Chairman of the Board of CAS, and a distinguished lawyer in his own right. In the quote he makes it crystal clear he holds all athletes personally responsible for what goes into their mouthes and he includes all wealthy football codes in this. He has zero tolerance for non enforcement of this principle. In private, apparently he is even more dogmatic about this, and thinks the wealthy football codes are trying to put one over all of us on this, This is a view shared by nearly all the Olympic movement and minor sports. They think the wealthy football codes think there is one rule for them and another for all the rest, and would love to see CAS bring them into line. I also think that WorkSafe hold if anything greater danger to the EFC and Hird than CAS. So far, although I wouldn't rule this out, they have not been nobled by Daniel Andrews who is an Essendon fanatic, and as Premier has the power to partially influence the priorities of WorkSafe, although he would be playing on dangerous ground with the Unions if he did so. The penalties from WorkSafe are far more severe and personal in the event of a finding of a breach of their code, including jail terms for directors and major instigators like Hird and Danks. I'm not saying it will go as far as this, but the penalties will be severe and would certainly rule Hird out of further employment in the football industry. Finally, I was talking the other day to one of melbourne's most distinguished surgeons and he was saying that the medical profession has no doubt there was an illegal program going on at Essendon and if WADA doesn't get them now they will get them in the next 12 months because all the players' blood samples are in the blood bank and there will be a test available for Beta4 within 12 months. This is the way they eventually nabbed Armstrong, O'Grady, Hodge and Matt White for blood doping. At the very least it will prove the justice of a positive CAS outcome. As I keep on saying this is far from over, then there is the book from Caro and the mini series from channel nine....!

Can we please change the thread title to "Heretier Lamumba not out with any injuries"?

I'm very happy with Lumumba.

Give him one dollar for five years. He can print his own money.

Jetta is a huge loss when we have to contain Walters AND Ballantyne. Tyson may be a huge loss when we have to counter Barlow, Mundy, Fyfe, Neale, Hill, etc. Kent is a huge loss when we have to contain Mzungu, Ibbotson, Pearce, Suban, Johnson, etc. There is too much of what we really need missing this week.

Got me... I just wanna play with Jesse Hogan so badly.

I'm afraid it's got to the point where threads like this are simply no longer funny... they are just plain nasty. I really hope the moderators nip this one in the bud quick smart!

Fantastic to see Jack G back hope he holds his spot for the rest of the year and sticks around for many years to come. Go Dees.

With THE Hulk Hogan in town, somebody has to arrange a photo between the Demons' Hogan and the Champ. That would be the greatest thing to ever happen, ever.

Intent to cheat is enough, though, isn't it? And if Essendon tried to get TB4, then whether they got dudded or not has no bearing on their intent... They've been given the benefit of an irrelevancy.

Time to stop bringing it up all the time then.

Who is able to play the same role that he does, have the same impact with the football and on the scoreboard that is playing at Casey? No one. It is quite apparent you, and others, feel that he should spend time in Casey because he has been in our top 15 or so players or based around some percieved skill errors. Crossy continually turns the football over and looks slow, Angus Brayshaw made multiple disposal errors in the third quarter, Nathan Jones dropped a chest mark which resulted in a goal, Ben Newton dropped one coming back in which he only really put one arm out for it and many more. Based on your poor assessment of football they should all be dropped to Casey to find some form. The other thing I think that is pivotal to why he is continually being picked is individual players have a set list of KPIs in which the club will assess for individual players, it is tailored to what is expected for each individual in the role that they are playing or what the coaching staff expect from a weekly basis. If the players do not reach required level in these stats, more so than "disposals" or "perceived toughness on the demonland forum", that is when they are likely to be considered for the drop.

I wish Colin all the best. I still remember him fondly. He helped my close friend's son get through a serious teenage crisis as a mentor through the Reach program. This boy is now a fine upstanding 22 year old who credits Col for helping him at one of life's major crossroads when he was a sixteen year old. Just thought I would throw in a different perspective.

I mentioned earlier that I was pretty annoyed at the video posted on the AFL website about Jack Watts. I decided to write the following email to the club: "I was extremely disappointed and angry at the video posted on the AFL website trying to show all of Jack Watts mistakes from Friday night. I don't think I have ever seen another player get scrutinised this way and think it is completely uncalled for. I hope that the club has brought this to the attention of the AFL and if not I think they should. Watts did some really good things on Friday night and I was very happy with a lot of his efforts. I want to see this club stick up for its players not just pretend it never happened. Hoping that something can be done." They just got back to me with the following: "Thank you for your email and support of the Club. The Club’s media manager has spoken to AFL Media about the video of Jack’s performance from Friday night’s game. We are disappointed that they have chosen to single out his performance in this way, particularly out of the entire competition. We appreciate your feedback on the video. If you have any other queries, please do not hesitate to let us know." It's good to see the club getting on the front foot in regards to that video.

All the best to Watts for his 100th game on the weekend. Hope he proves the haters wrong and has a blinder.

I prefer Hoover to clean up the crumbs

The one that causes him to seek a transfer to a better club.

This is what is nonsense. By all means lets acknowledge where he's at: one of our most valuable players and one of the first handful picked each week, as demonstrated by the fat he keeps getting picked, he doesn't start as a sub and his statistical output. That is where he is at. What is this nonsense about 'a path back". A path back from where? By all means dees fans should highlight what Jack can improve (eg his competitiveness in the air) just as they would abut any player (eg "Tyson needs to improve his kicking and stop getting caught holding the ball') but peddling untruths hard"and myths (Watts is soft, doesn't work hard, is on thin ice in the side, would benefit from a spell in the seconds, adds nothing to the team blah, blah, blah) should be left to other other teams' supporters and fuckknuckle clueless football commentators. Any way this is a futile effort so i better stop posting in this thread, after a final comment. Watts is a valuable MFC player who has stuck fat when the easy thing to do would have been to swan of to another club and play regular finals (something a truly soft player would do). I'l be there on Sunday cheering him on (and no doubt wincing at the bone headed MFC supporters giving it to him when he makes an error)

This ^^

I agree 100% So far we have recruited beautifully, but we have to keep up that strike rate for 2-3 seasons yetWe have no credits!!!

Another thing the Hawks were able to do really well is get fantastic value from late draft picks: Isaac Smith: pick 19 Luke Breust: pick 77 Brad Hill: pick 33 Taylor Dureya: pick 69 Paul Puopolo: pick 66 Liam Shiels: pick 34 I think we are starting to show signs of doing this with: VandenBerg Kent McDonald Kennedy-Harris All were late draft picks and having been playing really well.

Well written. Good analysis.

Roos & Lyon know each other so well. They know the philosphies of each other. Hell Roosy taught him!! I am expecting bold and different tactics this sunday A home game with an opportunity to go 3-2 is massive Thrive on it Roosy "Seize The Day" (Mr. Keating) Dead Poets Society R.I.P. Robin

Clearly there is a need for clubs to trade when necessary. However, I have always thought that a club just like any employer needs to be very careful as to who they trade, how they trade and do so understanding the wider ripply effect on the players remaining. They should be judicious and respectful at all times. Many players and their managers might have become greedy and expedient but the clubs should behave professionally and maintain the high moral ground irrespective of the circumstances. We need to build a team for the next 5 years. Some level of attrition and new blood is necessary for success but a club needs to be careful over the turnover rate and the players it trades. Dismissal, redundancies and in this case trades, will always impact those remaining and affect their morale and attitude to their own future. Howe is a good player and at times with his marking ability can be inspirational or at least a team lifter. I suspect that he is well liked by his team mates. I would be very careful at trading Howe irrespective of the trade. If he was adding no value to the team it might be a different matter but at the moment he adds value. Perhaps Shiel or Treloar may provide justification to trade, however, unless Howe wants to go or decides to go for the money in the contract negotiations I would not favour a trade. So from a Club position my starting point would be that "we want to keep you." If he wants out, that is another matter.

*Ainslie The coach rang Stone a few times to make sure they were keeping a close eye (asked the coach myself), the FD did their jobs and voila - a footy player is recruited. Has this happened so sparsely we think we are looking for whispers, man-oracles, and pixie dust? Hawthorn recruits players like this constantly...

Not sure this is helpful to any point, anyone is making, unless that point was to make Dees fans cry...

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-04-30/ricciuto-mcleod-head-crows-inaugural-hall-of-fame-inductions?utm_medium=RSS While it was at the Crows, thought it is worth acknowledging this achievement. He was a dual premiership player and later captain of the Crows. Hope that his next premiership success is holding the Cup as Demons coach Reckon there is a good chance!

Tyson is just going through what Nathan Jones went through in his first years.. with more experience and a bigger body he won't get caught so often. I said back then that Jonesy must have been under orders to back himself so he could develop into a hard midfielder, the short term negative was that he gave away frees but now he's become a gem. It's the only way for Tyson (and Viney) to learn

haha, very good, bbo. I can't for the life of me imagine why someone would think you were some kind of pervert

i've got some good jousting sticks going cheap. interested?

Nothing says AFL star of the future like winning the Gibbs-Lines medal. But in reality: Established members of our inside midfield brigade - Jones, Tyson and Viney Flexible options - Vince (could be moved to wing/half back/half forward in the future), Salem Likely future members - vandenBerg, Bayshaw and Petracca Possibles - Neal-Bullen, Harmes Still sorting - Newton, Michie, Riley, McKenzie Woodward would (excuse the tongue twister) be a strong addition to the list as at minimum a good depth player, but in terms of inside mids I think we should work with what we have. I presume Hawthorn or another club would still have interest in his services and therefore we'd have to pay up either a draft pick or salary for him if not both. I'd rather use resources on talls (rucks or either end) and some more outside run and skill.

He did it under Neeld. I'd be backing Paul Roos's judgement over yours my friend. Facts: Top 10 in disposals Top 10 in effective disposals 3rd in marks 1st in goal assists. And he's not playing at his best! Who are you going to replace him with to give the same output? Pedersen? Fitzpatrick? I'm running out of options.

And pick 2 for Tyson AND Salem. Pick 21 or so for Frost. Pick 600 for Garlett. Lumumba for Judas. Newton for nudda. vandenBerg for a bag of fairy floss from a country fair.

Pray to the footy gods that it's Scott Thompson.