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Had a look this morning. Normal training drills until about 11.00 when they played match practice with about 16 per team. Injuries: King, Howe, Vince, ANB (not sighted Petracca and Trengove). All others seemed to be there. Observations: As the tempo of training increases so do the mistakes - understandable. Salem playing back, dominated match simulation and looked fantastic until he appeared to hurt his left calf. He didn't look happy and it was strapped straight away. Lets hope for the best. Tommy Mac was very good, killed Dawes who really struggles with ball handling. Jordie McKenzie seems to be playing off the back flank. His opponent gets very little of it. Gawn mainly forward ruck, some good work at times. Stretch just knows how to get involved, impressed again today. Tyson, Jones and Viney did very well. First look at White today and was impressed. Good size, competitive and kicks well. Brayshaw got another hit to the head and left the field. Salem was leading him a merry dance at that stage. Hogan was involved and kicked goals. Garlett will be a gun if he can keep focused. Clean, fast, skilled and can find it. Oscar Mac played forward and got it a few times. Dunn wacked Gawn in the guts behind play. All the players played their part but the flowing skills of a month ago under little pressure were replaced today with some more contested "normal" footy. JKH found a little of it when McKenzie didn't pick him up. He played in the midfield a bit and was involved. Watts only played about half the match sim but didn't seem to be in any discomfort when off so I assume it was just a load thing. In one drill he was playing a lead up forward role but in the match sim he was high half forward again. Toump seems to have made progress to me. Not the huge leap many will hope for but he was involved all day and by todays standards one of the better disposers of the ball. There is no doubt they are trying to move the ball quicker but are still struggling at times finding a target. As ever I'm very interested to get others impressions. I'm just hoping for the best with Salem. Hopefully just cramp or something but he was terrific and he'll be in my fantasy footy team as first picked. His ball handling, contested work, kicking and ability to find it were just great.

Just got back from training, and BB was pretty much spot on with his analysis. I went there looking at structures, ball movement and the role that individual players were given. I'm basically looking at where we'll be better from past years. Positives Salem was outstanding. Toumpas was really good when he's given space, and his disposal was great. Tyson, N.Jones and Viney were the best of the mids. Hogan and Garlett will improve our forward line. Thought that Kent was also good up forward. Frost really impressed me at times with his clean ball handling and run. Of the youngsters, Stretch was impressive apart from one badly missed target at the end. He looks like he could be an inside/outside mid. Vandenburg did a couple of nice things. Oscar Mac may take time to develop, but looks like a footballer. Wasn't as impressed with White as BB. He's got nice size about him, and got involved, but struggled a bit in one on one contests. Negatives In what were ideal conditions, the number of missed targets was atrocious. I won't individualise because there were too many to remember. Dawes. If players can get reported during intra club match drills, he would be missing for another 4 weeks. Jetta was playing on him, and beat him every time in a body on body contest. In frustration, Dawes smashed him across the chops, in what can only be described as a cowardly act. Jetta was down for some time, then went off the ground shaken. Spencer. It's an indictment on a player when an assistant coach yells out to his opponent "you're on Spencil". The ball was duly kicked Spencer's opponent, who took the mark and ran off. There were a couple of other shocking efforts that I could point out. And before Saty or BB say that everyone makes mistakes, Spencer would be lucky to get involved in 5 acts of play during a game, excluding ruck contests. General Observations Backs - We have no shortage of backman who are capable in a one on one contest. But when opposition teams apply a forward press, we need players capable of clearing the ball through run or good foot skills. The backmen who can provide both are Jetta, Salem, and Dunn. T.Mac is a lock in as a kpb, but his skills are still average. Lumumba can provide some run and has good evasive skills, but is an ordinary kick. Frost has looked pretty good in the 2 match sims that I've seen. IMO, I wouldn't have Garland, Grimes of McKenzie in a starting 22. All are honest players, but we need more rebound and skill. Mids - Still a massive reliance on N.Jones and Tyson. Viney was good today. Michie was involved quite a bit but is very one paced, and hasn't got elite kicking skills. Really need Toumpas to have a breakout year. Forwards - Hogan is the only key forward we can rely on, and he hasn't played a game. Noticed Hogan deliberately punching the ball down to a waiting Garlett or Kent during one of the drills. Would like to see a structure that includes Garlett, Kent and JKH, because aside from Hogan, I struggle to see where the goals will come from. If we line up with Hogan, Dawes and [Pedersen], we'll struggle. Rucks - Jamar is still no.1 but doesn't offer much around the ground. Gawn has a presence when up forward, but doesn't impose as a ruckman. [Pedersen] did a bit of ruckwork in the match sim, and wouldn't mind seeing him used as a 2nd ruck /ruckrover. Spencer, Casey.

Scully overrated - 2 x compensation picks Sylvia overrated - Bernie Vince Frawley overrated - pick 3 (Brayshaw) Excuse me while I crack a stubbie.

Things I thought from training and the match sim. Viney, Salem, hunt and toumpas got on the end of most of the handball drills to be the one one kicking it forward. It was either they are working hard on this by themselves or its a training focus. All of the rucks are doing heaps of contested marking drills as forwards. It's obvious they are going to spend time forward. Salem is not only a great kick, he is brave and often went for marks in front of oncoming forwards. He did this when he hurt himself. Not sure if it was a knock to the calf and something else. It was late in the sim and he came straight off. On a positive note, they did not put ice on it, but did put a bandage on it and he walked back to the rooms. Frost is an outstanding athlete. Play of the day was all him. Took a 1 handed mark going back into a pack in the back pocket, played on at pace and kicked beautifully to toumpas at chb, got the handball back, sprinted down the middle and hit gawn on a lead about 40m out. Gawn went back and kicked truly. It was great to watch. He is very fast for a big guy. Tmac is a machine and competitive beast. He looks to be adding a real attack to his game. Was streaming out of the back half and did not make a single disposal error. He and frost will be the key backs in my opinion with Dunn to be the third. Garland was also very good and has spoiling was terrific. I've been critical of grimes at times (like some others). He was brilliant today. Was not beaten once in a one on one and his disposal was very good. If he plays anything like that we all will be happy. Jetta copped a couple of knocks early but was still pretty good. The White team had tmac, frost, grimes, Salem, toumpas, jetta running around the backline and it really showed. The White team was easily the better of the 2. Dawes and watts were playing against this and they made it very hard for them Omac took 1 very good mark at the start of the sim against frost. It was at full sprint with his hands above his head with frost right up his date. Good to see a young player complete a very difficult skill. I thought gawn, hogan and Kent had a very good forward rapport. Kent is roving off them a lot and they are all very good below their knees and physical with the ball on the ground. Kent is a very hard trainer and he seems to be doing heaps of training roving off hogan. Garlett played mid mostly and was very impressive. For me, I don't care about what happened earlier in the week as it was about him last year. I would pick him round 1 without question. Lumumba was the one on the blue team with the most run. He just runs and runs. What a great pick up. N jones, Tyson and viney are ready to go. Jones was his usual self. Viney was terrific and Tyson was in everything. He tackled very well and kicked another goal from a stoppage about 30 out. He well do this again this year and often. Spencer competed with jamar today and won a few very good tap outs. Toumpas looks much improved and will be close to starting around wing and helping out down back. M jones- also one I'm critical of. Today in the game, when he ran with the ball he ws very good. When he takes a mark and has to go back, he is too indecisive and turned it over a couple of times. His run was very good though and he delivered. I personally don't see Mckenzie getting too many, if any games. Nothing seems to have changed in his game from what I saw. This is just my opinion. He will give experience to the first and second year guys though. At Casey.

Some more observations kicking out of the backline in general has improved but some of the decision making was shocking at times, Garland tried to switch at one point, turnover goal, then Dunn handballed in the pocket rather than kicked, caused a stoppage, goal. Nathan Jones gave both a good spray afterwards. The Toump is clearly quicker than he was last year and actually looks a little dangerous with ball in hand, he is working really hard to get more involved. Salem looks like he has the potential to be really really good in the back line role, he was playing very well at one point there. Dean kent was the real standout today for me besides maybe Salem and Jones, he has pace, he is tough and knows how to kick multiple goals, i am very optimistic about what he can offer this year, some of the run he provided today was great.

As far as the match sim went it had its moments of positive play and others not so much. To be honest I was probably as disappointed in the coaches as much as the players. The focus again seems to be on possession retention, with Goodwin calling for calm and slow steady play at half back. Seems a strong desire to get the ball to running players by foot trying to pick through zones instead of attacking run from the backline and long kicks to half forwards presenting which is what I'd love to see. The best patches of play did involve a more attacking kick towards the corridor and then some flowing handball and run. Frost actually straightened the team up a bit with an attacking play. One went from the Northern end in to the middle for a series of handballs (I think Salem, Viney, Kent) who then pumped it in forward. The slower play around half back was ok at times. It certainly wasn't terrible. But when you switch it around half back against any good defensive team (and both sides defended pretty well) at some stage you're going to need to do 1 of 3 things to get out - 1. kick to a contest. 2. thread the needle on a difficult kick or 3. run and link up and break through a zone. There were too many times where I would've liked to see us try the kick to the ruck/CHF option OR try the handball and run through the middle early on in the rebound. Individual wise (bearing in mind the teams were pretty balanced and so you had to look both ends) Backs: Dunn made it hard for Gawn by out bodying him. Grimes was more solid. Salem defended well, took a great mark backing in to a pack and used the ball really well. Garland had one moment where he dangled a kick out for young White who probably could've held it with strong hands but was picked off. Hunt had a big long run (during the earlier match simulation stuff). Tommy McDonald continues to be a liability with ball in hand. Shank central. He has a very slow steady and release on his kicks. White kicks really well and looks up for the contest, just is a bit awkward defending and around the packs. Frost provided a bit of burst and was otherwise ok. Jetta was very comfortable for the time he played. Sat Hogan on his backside I believe at the far end. A number of others - Michie, Newton, Lumumba, McKenzie filled in on the flanks. Mids: Tyson is still probably our best on the spread, just gets to the right spots to get the ball. Viney found plenty as well. Jones was Jones. Lumumba breaks the game open with his run but we'll have to cop some turnovers or poor kicks. Matty Jones found lots of space, he's good at getting a handball and getting to the edge of a pack, unfortunately he just isn't smooth by foot when running full pace. Lively is a good word for Stretch. Newton pulls off the occasional lovely left foot kick, but I'm concerned about how he's going to find the ball. Michie has moments of clever play but then can be walking around a pack instead of busting for that handball receive. Toumpy found a bit of it and used it well. He's up for the contest but I'm not sure he's figured out just how he'll win them yet. Spencer did manage to handball the ball along the ground at one stage in his excitement to dish off a handball to a running player. He missed a lot of footy last year and training, so I'll give him time. But it's hard to watch at times. I think he'll only ever be of use if he plays angry and plays like a big strong bugger. That's not ideal for a scratch match, but he if rucks in games like he did v Pedersen at centre bounces he wont contribute much. Anyway, too much time for our 3rd string ruck already. Fwds: Hogan very solid. Dawes 2 grabbing but did take a few. Gawn got at least one goal when in more space but Dunn does give him trouble one on one. Garlett was buzzing around. JKH as usual finds a way to get to space, he's got a good work ethic. Kent was involved in lots and was very physical. Didn't see much of Fitzy besides on nice grab. Anyway, good players played well, ordinary players not so much. Defensive set ups were pretty sound. Physical effort seemed willing. Ball use was safe around half back. Forwards stayed at home pretty well. Mainly it's time to play against an actual opponent and to get our better players in the same team.

the thing i didn't realise about stretch until today is that he has an inside game, i had him pegged for a really good outside runner but he can win his own ball as well. having said that i'd be extremely surprised if he played round 1, i think Brayshaw is in the same boat, the kids have a bit to learn. Brendan Mcartney is already a massive get, he was hounding Watts today about getting on his bike and getting to more contests, saying that if he lifts his workrate he will go to the next level as a player.

A mixed bag. Got there pretty early but wandered over to AAMI to get a coffee at one stage so missed a little. 5 different sections of training stood out 1. A mini match play drill that involved 3 teams (blue, green, orange) with 2 on the field and one resting rotating after about 5 minutes. It was interesting to note that the team fresh off the bench would apply more pressure and get the upper hand. I think each team had about 10-15 players and with that number of the field there was much more open space and we were attacking and using the ball pretty well. Besides in front of goal where we missed a bunch of goals. Either way I was impressed with the attacking flowing footy 2. 4 man handball. 4 v 4 aim to get it up 50m using hands then the attacking team becomes the defenders then switch out. The usual quick and classy players stood out - Jones, Tyson, Lumumba. 3. Running players handball weave from the back flank then kick to the forwards (Hogan, Dawes, Garlett, Kent one end, Jamar, Gawn, Oscar Mc, Fitzy the other). The kicks to the forwards were pretty good in this drill. Well placed, fast and accurate. Fitzy grassed a few earlier but then found his range and started leading and marking out in front with purpose. Gawny the same, the coaches getting on him about marking out in front and he responded. Hogan and Garlett making it look easy at the other end. 4. Match sim. I'll have more later 5. Sprints. Most of the more senior players and mainly midfielders plus Pedersen, Garland, Dunn, Dawes did quite a few sets of sprints with Misso after the match simulation. I was impressed by the intensity. Only disappointed with Garland who once again trailed in most sprints even following in Pedersen, Garlett etc. I don't know what the deal is with him, I really thought he would've found his fitness by now. Rehab: Neal-Bullen did a truck load of laps Howe and Vince, sometimes with King did a lot of sprints and laps No sign of Terlich nor Trengove Watts, Lumumba and Fitzy were pulled out of the match sim as it progressed but I didn't noticed any issues. Brayshaw took a couple of bumps and tackles, he gets in there. But towards the end Salem tackled him and Brayshaw managed another head knock, got up and looked ok.

I was there as well agree with most of what BB said, stood next to him a lot of the time and discussed Only Trenove and Petracca missing Terlich Hunt Lumumba on light days and left early Howe, Vince and King were running laps, at one stage got caught on the boundary near the goal with Hogan chasing a ball, ran straight through the middle of them and took out Bernie and King....an animal ANB ran laps as well Brayshaw took two head knocks, said he is wearing a helmet next session, Roh Bail pleased somebody has taken over from him in getting the head hits Salem had two injuries a cork in the calf and a broken heart from Arsenal's poor performance in the Champiions League On the big men training, discussed with Mark Jamar, on a light day the ruckmen are expected to cover approx. 8km, on solid day they are expected to do 11k Spoke to Vandenberg again, looking at him as a forward, knows how to play midfield but reckons at the moment he is 6th or 7th in line Stretch may be a stretch for Rd 1, but he is giving himself every chance Ben Mathews reckons it was a good quality session Mo64 Terlich wasn't in the match sim, so you have to pick on somebody, Spencer was ok from what I saw Any questions, pics on Twitter Demonpk soon

I don't think Brian Lake's first game at Hawthorn set the world on fire but he now has 2 premiership medals..... I don't think Buddy's first game with the swans was world beating either....And there has been many others who haven't stared in their first games. I don't get the glee of some posters have because Chip played badly in his first game with the Hawks.

Frawley is a good player. That said, I don't miss him.

Its all mathematics really. EG: Three people have been in the house. There were 6 eggs in the fridge. I had two eggs, you had 2 eggs and now there are no eggs in the fridge. Mathematics tells me the third person is responsible for the missing eggs. No one saw them take the eggs. That is circumstantial evidence. No one can prove the players took a banned substance. The club ordered and paid for a banned substance. Thousands of injections of substances took place. No records of thousand of vials of approved substances exists. Now I am no mathematical genius but to me it is obvious. I agree with Stephen Hawkins, black holes exist not because I know they exist but because they must exist.

Tweet from Mick Warner mickwarner ‏@heraldsunmick 52s52 seconds ago Hird not appealing @superfooty 0 replies0 retweets0 favorites Reply Retweet Favorite More I'm guessing Mick doesn't even realise the pun he's written.

What never changes is that PLAYERS ARE RESPONSIBLE. Thats in concrete. Only mitigation may or may not be applied . Responsibility actually never changes. The scenarios mentioned whereby athletes were unwitting in their takings or was a medical emergency just dont apply here. "here ...sign this..... " all those little words should have set alarm bells ringing So , again, how many players even contacted their sloth of a medico ?? How many contacted ASADA ?? They werent so much unwitting and they were halfwitting !!

Chip was a good player for us, especially early on, but seemed to lose interest in the last few years, where his form really tapered off. There were games where he annoyed the hell out of me. To me his big flaw was disposal and decision making. I don't think he will improve on disposal, but he may on decision making. If he doesn't, he won't play a lot of senior footy with the Hawks. Last night was only a NAB Cup game but he was very poor. He will improve, hopefully not enough for us to regret his leaving. Me, I am looking forward to seeing Brayshaw play.

I'm not particularly interested in reveling in somebody's failures after committing so much of their time to a club which gave very little in return. I hope he does well.

I dont begrudge chip for leaving. He hung around for 7 years during a crap time and has now gone to a club where he will play finals and possibly a premiership which I believe is what players play football for. Yes I was disappointed that he chose not to hang around but at least he wasnt a scully and ditch us after 2 seasons. But it will be interesting to see how he goes r1 against geelong where hawkins has given him trouble. Also he may find things a bit tougher he is part of a standout team that rarely lose. The pressure will be greater. Bulldogs fans were annoyed when Lake left but do you tink he cares. He now has 2 flags. Yep look what happened to the dogs over that 2 year period. They lost there coach, had 2 disappointing seasons and lost there captain and a brownlow medalist. Im just saying I understand why players leave.

Pretty average from what I saw tonight but then again White was a world beater as he was in the NAB last year, then gave nothing for the season proper. It's NAB, all sorts of strange things happen at this time of year. I wouldn't be writing his career off just yet.

Now for Mitch Clark to have a shocker and the schadenfreude will be flowing strong.

I'm like all supporters, I've got my favourites and I've got players I don't like. But Spencer wasn't horrible today. Nice mark on the wing and a really good kick forward to a running player hitting him lace out as he was running away from Pencil (it was on the other side of the ground and I don't know who it was). He competed and gets involved around the ground. You didn't mention that. I get you don't like him and that's fine but you should at least give a full picture and not a singular example of a mistake. As for the ball rarely getting from one end to the other without a skill mistake have a look at last nights game and again tonight. It's a competitive game where the ball rarely does go from one end to the other without an "error". Today was competitive with as much focus on defense as attack. The idea of defense is to make it difficult for the attacker. They did and we saw a contest. That's all. It wasn't silly skill errors where simple mistakes were made. It was pretty normal preseason competitive footy. And having read all the reports I'd agree that Kent was very good as was Grimes. Anyone who thinks he's not a lock for the team if fit is well off the mark IMO. Newton is one of those players who I just don't notice. I reckon I'll pick up the paper having not noticed him in a game and see he had it 26 times. Does have nice balance and a very good kick but like GRRM I don't see him get it much. Thanks to Saty for info on Salem. I feared he'd done his calf muscle but if it's just a cork that's great. Believe me, if you'd seen him today you'd be excited! And Dawes is a real worry I reckon. He's not that good in a contest because his hands are iffy and he gets angry and reported which doesn't do anything for the team. Time for a bit of reflection I reckon. Having said that I didn't see the Jetta incident.

And TDI. Variety is the spice of life, I enjoy reading all the reports and accept them for what they are, opinions. It would be a boring world if we all agreed on everything. Kudos to all reports.

Take a bow Mo64 and Geoguio Martin fantastic training reports. Loving your guys honesty and constructive criticism on the reports. Special mention too BB for kicking it off. t

i have been told multiple times, Petracca was taken at 2 because it was seen pick 1 was between him and McCartin publicly and the club knew they'd get Brayshaw as well so they played along, Brayshaw was the one we would have taken if we had the choice because Paul Roos wants Genuine mids, not flankers who can play in the middle, plus Angus played with Tyler Roos and trained with the MFC so the club and the recruiters have had a really good up close look at the kid. having said that the same person told me we rated Issac Heeney as the best player in this draft pool and that's why we threw pick 2 up for him before we had secured pick 3 for frawley.

I like this. My criticism of Watts has always been the same - when he attacks the contest with desire ( and doesn't go to ground) he does well. To me, he doesn't get to enough contests. McCartney is 100% right.

Newton's spot in the team was all but certain anyway, in my opinion.

Really good discussion on this topic. Well informed posts providing interesting opinions and diversity of views. This continues to be an amazing saga, the like of which we have never seen before and unlikely to see for a long time. A saga driven by wrong doing, shady characters, reputations, egos, greed, politics, power, money, vested interests, court room battles, desperate people fighting for reputations and futures. The only thing missing is sex. Perhaps still to come. Some unlikely couplings? What is surprising is the complete absence of shame. This tells us a lot about the underlying pathology of those involved. Narcissistic egos and shame are incompatible. Also tells us a lot about the damage one person can do when unchecked by others. Megalomania is a destructive force. There is going to be a good book coming out of this.

Oh no, my Reputation is shot because I got a year wrong. Obviously I meant his AA year.

It's only one game, so let's not get carried away. Not that we can't hope that he has many more like it...

I know there are things that our club should be doing to drive new support, revenue, members etc. (i.e the recent comparison between our intra-club match setup and Collingwoods), but let's also look at the good things WE ARE doing. Was just speaking to a Chinese born colleague of mine who knows that I am a diehard Demon. Said that our presence at the Chinese New Year celebrations on the weekend was amazing. Said when he got off the train, and walked to where it was all being held, there were a lot of MFC dressed people handing out promotional things, whilst SPEAKING MANDARIN (which i thought was amazing), encouraging them to get along to our games by offering free tickets, prizes etc. and getting them to have a go at kicking the footy and hand-balling, which his kids LOVED! Said he was very impressed by our presence, especially the fact that we got mandarin speaking representatives to talk to them about the game and our club in their first language (mandarin). Now he is even attending a game in March with his entire family (as they received tickets), and intends to get a membership! He said he wasn't alone, and from his word, a lot of people that were there shared his sentiment, or are at least now rocking a MFC hat or scarf (even if they don't know what it quite is). So well done to the MFC. We have a long way to go to turning around and building our brand, but i feel we are starting to "get"/understand what we need to do to become a powerful football club again, both on AND off the field.

I don't think the spray was about the decision as much as the indecision, the spray seemed to be around the fact that he didn't commit and just go, he hesitated and because of that the switch didn't come off and resulted in a turnover.

Allot is probably wrong wording, I would say he had at least 6-8 touches in the simulation from where I could see and used it well every time. Was good in traffic and spread well. My observation.

Liking Macca already..

I wouldn't think so but what would I know. I reckon Roos will put mature bodies on the field first and let the kids earn their spots. Unlike others I reckon Grimes, M Jones, Bail and a couple of others are in Roos best 22 at the moment because he wants as many players as possible that can genuinely compete at AFL level. On that basis I can't see Stretch, Brayshaw or other first year players getting a run early. NAB Challenge could change that or I might be quite wrong.

I don't believe the players signed waivers for TB4, rather they signed it for Thymosin. This could then be argued that they looked into this and discovered that there was a legal version, which they were informed was what they were receiving, and can then lead to the conclusion ‘that they were duped’. The doctor could argue that he was only asked to verify the legality of Thymosin, not TB4, which allows him to keep his integrity. Players and doctor could all therefore reasonably state they had no idea that TB4 was even in play because it was being referred to as Thymosin (medically) and "the good stuff" (slang). Guilty would still have to be the verdict, as clubs, coaches, organisations, teams, anyone would use this example of ‘innocence by misinformation’ as the blueprint for future systematic drug programs. Still the players may get some respite due to the "duping" argument, but the consequence of this would then have to flow on to Essendon - penalties for the drugs will have to be enforced on someone (note Dank was an employee, therefore representative of Essendon). I would love to see Essendon booted out for this: 1) for just attempting drugs in sport which goes so far against the Australian ethics of fair play, that it is sickening (mention Chinese or East German swimmers to see the residual animosity that still radiates in most Aussie sporting fans - even Lance Armstrong is viewed in distain) 2) for how they have treated the whole process, in such a contemptuous way that it actually belittles the sporting public. Their position - You know we are guilty, we know we are guilty; but we are going to serve up a fairy story that is so unbelievable that you couldn't sugar-coat it to Kindergarten kids; and then throw enough money at it until it all becomes forgotten news; and what are you the sporting public going to do about it, Nothing. For all those saying it's bad for AFL to lose so many bomber supporters, this is simply not true. Most are AFL supporters who will end up supporting another team (even if they persist in a token protest for a couple of years), some may just support VFL sides (but this is still good) and the remaining that are lost to the game were not worth keeping in the first place. P.S. As a member of the general public, I may not be able to influence this much, but I will also not do "Nothing". I will never attend another game involving Essendon (may buy tickets for Melbourne home games, just not attend) and encourage all my friends to do the same; will even organise events to compete against potential compelling Bomber games.

Reality check. They kept no records! If this does not scream out, we are breaking the rules and trying to hide it. Then nothing does. The club is guilty, only feats of magic and illusion can spare the players. I do not think it possible to gather a group of 42 men, tell them we are embarking on a program of improvement that is close to the edge of legality. Have 8 pull out of the program, why? And no one check for themselves if it really was OK I want to know why 8 players pulled out. Did they check the legality? If so did they discuss this with teammates? Too many questions, no innocent answers. All I see is a recreation of the Titanic disaster set in a football team. I think all the players were informed about what they were taking. I think they were told it was leading edge stuff on the border of legality. I think 8 chose to inquire further and opted out. The remaining 34 put their trust in their club. I think the club has breached it duty of care. I think the club and the players are guilty. NB: Attempting to cheat is cheating.

I'm hoping to see Brayshaw play at Casey every week and dominating but can't break into the side because Melbourne are doing so well.

You make [censored] up and say I have no idea! Hahahahahah! Such irony is wonderful.

Last year it was Hogan and Clark. We are better placed to cover injuries this year. Don't despair, we will enter the competition competive in all areas of the ground, even the midfield.

I reckon the toump

My God, half a club missing a pre-season. C & B would go into over-drive. It's the ultimate golden ticket!

NAB cup game.

Who was Alistair Clarkson when he was playing? Would you have allowed him to be an 'onfield leader'? He would have been anyway. You are judging the players' leadership ability based on their talent. Doesn't work like that.

This is a possibility, but I suggest any verdict which results in significant playing time lost by the players will result in civil court action by them against Hird, Essendon and the AFL, which could go on for years. Given Hird's past behaviour, he would almost certainly vigoursly defend this which would further delay it. Then there is Workcover which will come to a head after ASADA is finished, and will result in significant penalties for the Essendon hierarchy and Hird himself, ultimately also ending up in the appeals court. This has a long way to go, but will result in the ultimate penalty being the same. ASADA knows it, WADA knows it, and no doubt the AFL knows it as well. Whether Essendon does or not is debatable. I have no doubt at all that the Hirds know it - that is why they are fighting it every inch of the way, and using every delaying tactic in the book, just as Armstrong did - but sadly for them, a very similar fate awaits the Golden Boy J. Hird.

I admit I was surprised at just how poor he was.

True story. Ran into Dunn on my way home yesterday. He was in his car a line of traffic and a motoorcycle was heading up the inside lane. Dunn pulls left to park the car and nearly takes the rider out. I was behind on my bike and pulled up next to him (noticing that his car was battered on the drivers side). Geez mate I said, no wonder your car is battered. To which I copped an earful about motorbike riders blah blah blah.. Hey, you're Lynden Dunn I said.Thats not very friendly to a Demon supporter. He quickly tought better of it and shut his mouth and wound up his window.... I thought he was going to jumper punch me ha ha....

Being better than the last 8 seasons would be a good start. Not feeling like sh?t cause we follow a basket case of a team would also be a nice change.

No worries, Lynden.