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Le Grand has written extensively about the doping scandal and most of what he's produced has read as if it came straight out of the Essendon Football Club storybook. I do love the reference to so-called "secret" talks. Nothing stays a secret very long in AFL circles except for things like the contents of the syringes which were injected into the veins of the Essendon players during the time when the doping scandal was unfolding. They're so secret that the Bombers don't have a clue what they were except for the fact that they can cure cancer. Le Grand was nominated for a Walkely Award for the crap that he's been writing on the subject which says something about the standards of journalism in this country. As for the secret talks, at least we now know where the story of the "two match" penalty came from and we can take a fair guess at the source of that particular leak. Of more concern is that if the AFL was involved in these talks with Gordon and Crameri's lawyers, it raises some disturbing ethical questions about the AFL bearing in mind that one of it's own tribunals is in the midst of sitting in deliberation on some serious allegations concerning an AFL club, its players and officials.

All looks about right except for Richmond at $23.00. It's like people are willing them to be good. They're not good.

Both Harmes and Hogan came to the defense of Clark, making it crystal clear they were just joking and still mates, after some heroes jumped in to give Clark a gobful. It's petty, it's ugly, it's bloody ignorant and it's really tired already... Lets all just move on gracefully. *if only

Nonsense, with Taylor Hunt in their team they would have flogged Port in the first final.

I'm finding myself agreeing with everyone thus far, which perhaps points to there not being one single most important position. Midfield as a collextive unit is clearly most important, but you only have to look at our side over the past few years to see how important a quality "quarterback" can be. In terms of single position, CHB and CHF are well up there. Regarding the ruckman fading in importance, whilst true to an extent, the inclusion of Mumford to GWS had mamor ramifications for their young midfield. They looked a different side and suffered when he was out injured, A quality ruckman can still make a big difference. For all of Russian's shortcomings around the ground, he's the one I want in the middle at present because he at least gives our working class midfield first opportunity.

In fact they have separate sleeping quarters

The AFL Tribunal is hearing the case. Yes, ASADA is effectively acting as the prosecution. My point is that it is completely inappropriate for the AFL to be conducting back door negotiations in these circumstances.

Forget Danger I say we go hard for Tim Cahill, one year contract as a key forward.

* Slightly cooler today, but only by a smidge. * Roosy takes up his post in the Cherry picker again. * Vince only one running separate from the main group. * A fair few tackling drills today - Going in hard. *ANB getting praised for his disposal - I concur. * Brayshaw prides himself on his disposal - you can tell. * Newton looks to be a good pickup. Impressed me several times today. Disposal and inside 50's awesome. You can see a bit of Port play about him also. * Good spirit amongst the guys, playing what looked to be a cross between ring a ring a rosie & pass the parcel football style. * Good kicking early on. Some guys hot and cold between days, but overall looks pretty good. * Looks like being a big session, geeing each other up to keep setting the standards. * Vanders, Harmes & Kent all with the main group (not rehab today). * Petracca good vision & hands. * Garlett looks sharper today - good speed and best I've seen him all camp today. * Not a big fan of the attitude today. Seem to be a bit tired, grumpy and getting up each other (long camp) * Vanders doing pretty well again, getting lots of direction about where to go on the field today. * The guys who still have to prove themselves are constantly standing out for their efforts. Suprise-suprise * Vanders high half forward, Brayshaw high half back in Sims. * I get a higher perch to see what Roosy likes so much about being high up. It instantly occurs to me how much of a difference the good kickers make to the game plan. The lefties in particular (Hawthornesque) open up the game so well. Newton, Kent, Whitey - It reminds of what Davey use to do. * The session is taking a little nose dive at this point - A few look a little over the camp and starting to mentally switching off. Looking for the finish line - My advice ... get some more Carbs for the brain, it supposedly runs exclusively on glucose. * Lamumba streaks out of the middle with a nice read - He did some nice things today. * Roosy addressing the troops, hope he is telling them to lift their game. * Petracca a little off early, but lifting his efforts now and impressing again. Roosy has definitely told them to finish off the camp strongly and they all picked up their standards - well done boys. * Matt Goodrope looks like Trennners from a distance. * Howie dancing a little jig, hammy can't be too bad. * Newton a good tackler as well - Is there anything he isn't good at, any weakness? Haven't found it yet. * Into a few drills to get something right and then back into match sims. Finishing off strongly now. * Roosy more happy with them now. * JKH/ King/ Watts & Howe off to ice up early. Didn't see Howie train again but I could be wrong. * Kent & Riley doing a bit of extra running at the end (catch up from being in rehab I suppose) * Bit of specific individual training to finish off. * Signing off from Maroochydore. It's been a great week and a half. I realised afterwards just how much I have got out of going along each day. You definatley feel a part of it in a way and it's a real boost to the work day. * Well done MFC - now go and win some games.

It's the way they do business 'Jack'. Integrity and the AFL are very strange bedfellows...

Thread needs more Dom Tyson love!

The odds are for premiership. Would you be silly enough to back them at any odds.

Lets have a look at the end of the season and see how wrong they got it 'old dee'.

Other coaches subscribe to the theory that a ruckman is far less important than he's ever been, almost to the point of being redundant. sam jacobs is probably the best ruckman in terms of putting the ball to adelaide's advantage more than any other ruckman, but the likes of dangerfield, sloane, thompson and the crouch bros. can't capitalise on his dominance because there's better midfielders than they on the opposition who're able to either stop them breaking away, getting it into space, or alternatively wrest the ball back from them. I like wj's mentioning of 'the entire midfield division' - if you bat deep there (look at hawks, swans, et al) then you're in a good spot. You could make an argument, thus, that perhaps the most important position is the 5th, 6th - the players who push up from half-forward to influence the midfield. But i'll stick with the centreman / midfield combo theory.

It's a long way out from the premiership and, at this stage, their assessments of teams are necessarily based on most recent performances with only minor adjustments for changes in between time. The odds will change but if we're going to rise in the estimation of Sportsbet of anyone from the general public we need to put some performances on the board.

I agree. I cannot believe they have been allowed to continue to train. I can only assume the AFL has approved the training because it involves almost a whole team out of competition. I think any suspension should start from the day they stop all involvement, but not sure it will happen that way unfortunately.

JETTA FROST DUNN H MCDONALD GARLAND VINCE JONES WATTS KENT PEDO HOWE GAWN HOGAN GARLETT JAMAR TYSON CROSS VINEY NEWTON SALEM TOUMPAS Thought it was time to revisit this after reading recent training reports. Not sure how Howe plays down back if everyone is up and about but if we are playing two rucks I'm thinking were s bit too top heavy. Going to interesting to see what happens if everyone is fit. I will get laughed at for this but another option would be drop Howe, Vince to the HFF, Newton or Salem to the wing and Petracca to the bench.

It would appear someone is yet to master the quote button. I however recognise that as my statement so let me explain it in simpler terms for you. Toumpas has been dismissed by many as another Melbourne drafting blunder, including many of our own supporters. Hence, if he is considered a wasted pick, then were he to have a breakout season, it would come as a surprise to all those non-believers. Let me know if I need to break it down further.

Maybe to clarify, the previous post said that the AFL tribunal would not be influenced by outside forces because it had distinguished people sitting on it including a retired County Court Judge. I beg to differ. In my view there is a huge difference between the AFL Tribunal, the body set up by the AFL to adjudicate on internal AFL rules and agreements with external parties such as ASADA, and the Federal Court of Australia of which Justice Middleton is a distinguished member. The AFL appoints the Tribunal's members, some of whom may be lawyers, even judges, but mostly they are ex footballers, albeit often very distinguished ones. They do not necessarily have a legal background. Australian Courts are set up by government to enforce the laws of the land whether they be by legislation enacted by democratically elected Federal and State Governments, or through British Common Law. They are presided over by judges who are drawn from the elite of the legal profession, and are appointed only after many years distinguished service usually at the Bar, and such appointments are regarded by lawyers as the pinnacle of their profession. They are some of the brightest and most distinguished people in the country. Justice Middleton was acting under such a body in the Essendon case, on the basis that the decision taken by various bodies against them, particularly Hird, potentially broke the law of the land. It was not essentially a football matter. The rules of ASADA/WADA dictate that any infraction of their rules on drug taking are first heard by the sporting tribunal set up by the governing body of the relevant sport in which the infraction has occurred to enforce their rules and any international rules they sign up to via voluntary agreement (eg WADA). These decisions can be appealed by any party to the decision, and WADA has the power to appeal any decision with which it disagrees to CAS, and often does, mostly successfully. Under this arrangement the AFL Tribunal is currently adjudicating on the infraction notices issued to the 34 current and ex EFC footballers by ASADA under their rules to which the AFL and all AFL clubs have voluntarily signed up to. No one though should pretend it is a court of law, because it isn't, and therefore is far more likely to be subject to interference from outside forces. This is precisely why WADA has the ultimate sanction and last right of appeal to ensure the local forces do not interfere with the decisions of local tribunals. Ironically it was written into WADA rules because it was regarded as likely that so called "third world" sporting tribunals would be likely to be corrupted by local officials. As it turned out, the biggest scandal has occurred in first world Australia, and we are all fortunate that these rules are in place to ensure morally corrupt individuals like James Hird do not get away with their appalling behaviour. Now does anyone else seriously suggest that decisions by the AFL tribunal are equivalent in authority and integrity to Federal Court of Australia decisions?

Ah hah, didn't see any of that. Instagram bugs out on my laptop. Gives it a bit more context than Harmes' original comment. And yes, the comments from supporters overall are ugly. Hardly endearing MFC players to the supporter base by going on their Instagram and launching attacks on former players, regardless of what we think of them.

Apparently recent research has shown that people who use social media to express anger, frustration, negativity and bile have a high incidence of heart disease. it seems many Demonlanders are not long for this earth - myself included!

10 to 1 to make the 8 is a bit light on too,,,

*Rubs hands together* I'm gonna be rich! Rich, you hear! Hehehehehe

2007....what's that oh.....that thanks.....not i had just about erased that from my memory [censored]

Obviously you don't recall 2007 when we were installed as premiership favourite from the Victorian clubs at the beginning of the season..? I'd love to know where they had Port placed over the last 2 preseasons, too.

You can win a premiership without a good forward line. You cannot win a premiership without a good midfield. The midfield group shapes a team. We've had a poor midfield for years, and we've been poor as a result. CHF was the most important position for decades. With the way the modern game is currently played with zones moving around and space being filled, the CHF is less important than it used to be. Goal kicking midfielders are the most important IMO. Look at the best midfielders in the game, Ablett, Kennedy, Selwood, Rockliff, Jobe, Pendlebury, Stevie J etc. They all go in, win their own ball for their team, and then hit the scoreboard also, often multiple times. They are the most important players in their team.

One would think that if Essendon gets beaten by 100 points or more for the first couple of games the football public would, with a little prodding from the AFooL, be starting to feel sorry for them. I know I would come 2050... O well dodder, dodder...

Anyone who backs the MFC over the last four years has a death wise where money is concerned.Send it to me I will put it to better use.

Or maybe because a lot of people have been on holidays and after Xmas and New Year people have less money at this time of the year.....Just saying...

Reading the comments it was quite obvious mitch was just having a joke around with his mates only for some [censored] to hijack poor Hogans instagram.. And it seems Mitch is still close to alot of the boys which is no problem at all. Im still pretty disappointed he left but going on social media and being a complete hero is something I am not interested in.

One thing you can almost guarantee 'Al' is we won't have a full list to pick from. From training reports I would think Newton will play but the NAB games are going to be important. Like you I'm not keen on the 2 rucks but with Dawes out it might happen.

I'm glad you understand OD.

That is exactly what I am saying, and Hird's relentless and expensive public campaign has been designed to position him as the innocent party supported by constant articles from tame journalists saying the players will get off. Judges will be highly influenced by this, as will be their existing prejudices about AFL football. The Australian atmosphere and public chatter makes it impossible not to be influenced by this. Thank god we have an international umpire who will know nothing of this, and will examine the evidence on its merits and in the auspices of WADA rules ie under European law where those accused have to prove their innocence. They will apply the law as it is - I would not bank on that in Australia where the AFL Tribunal is a private body set up to serve the interests of the AFL.

Sure.

...but this was pretty funny all the same.

Saty, you're on the money again. Just tweeted by Travis King from AFL: "Attack of the drones! A Hawthorn drone has crash-landed next to players moments before an intra-squad match."

Norman Gunston, played by Garry McDonald, would that mean we could have three McDonalds on the list.

I'd like to confirm again for this year as well (Goobers). I'll play whatever platform is chosen, it doesn't really worry me

Fantastic stuff as always RB - it's been greatly appreciated over the last week and a half. Can understand a little grumpiness in the players but pleased to hear that they still had it in them to lift their efforts on the final day. Beginning to get excited for the year ahead. Cheers!

No specifics, but Howe did have it iced up. I didn't see it happen - walking around reasonably OK afterwards. No sign of Hoges today. Someone told me he might have been proppy and stopped training but that could just be precautionry stuff (make of that what you will ). He always looks proppy to me with his waddle.Thought some guys might have gone for a swim earlier - he might have gone also. He has been wrapped in cotton wool at various points throughout the camp but I wouldn't be jumping to conclusions. Tyson came off with a lower leg concern but no idea how bad (shin?). He was still walking alright. I'd suggest that it might be a case of the medicos playing it safe with niggles - but who knows?

Sitting down with a Pilsner Urquel reading Demonland - I can feel the serenity

Sure, Brayshaw and Petracca have more developed bodies than most draftees, but they have only ever played against younger bodies in the Championships and TAC Cup. Give them a few games at VFL level first, so they can better adapt to the rigours and speed of AFL footy, still a big jump from VFL to AFL but not as great as coming straight in. Ollie Wines is the exception not the rule, even for bigger bodied mids.

Seriously cb haven't u learnt anything from playing kids too early

I certainly didn't intend it to be one, but posters can please themselves.

A bit of a fluff piece article this, but a good read nonetheless. He certainly seems to be loving the footy club. There was one sentence in their though, that has me lost for words for how lucky we are to have Dom Tyson. 'He did not miss a beat for the rest of the season, showing toughness to play 22 games after suffering a finger tendon injury in round nine. He even resisted an offer to finish his season early, when surgeons suggested he have a season ending-operation on his finger after round 18. After checking there was no risk he would do extra damage, Tyson said thanks but no thanks, preferring to play every game, proving to himself as much as others his resilience.' This is the exact type of player we've needed. The season was over, there was little to play for but he wanted to press on for the jumper. I really liked him before, but this reinforces how much a terrific player he is. We didn't just trade in a good footballer, we traded in a good person. http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-12-14/tysons-wobbly-start-with-dees

Oh great, another player covered in cheap tattoos.

Will be our best mid by the end of 2015, a full pre season should help him play at his best more consistently

The last three years I have looked at our list and but for a small number of kids added I have thought it was the same basic lot. A large percentage of which were not AFL STD. However this year a large number of those NGE's are gone and the list has a better look to it. IMO we still have a number that are not up to Finals Std. but it is much better. I am confident that in 2015 I will be able to go to most games and think we have a good chance of a win. I have not had that feeling for nine years. Go dees

I can't remember a better pre-season OD. Every year I'm optimistic and hopeful. I see the possibilities and hope for the best but there's always a twinge of uncertainty. But this year, there are no twinges, no niggling doubts, no hesitations... we are going to be so much better, it's hard to keep the lid on my enthusiasm. It's the perfect storm, nothing can go wrong, WE ARE BACK and young Dom will be leading the way!

Jeremy Cameron