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Head against brick wall time. Your constant sarcasm on here isn't being humourous. It's blatant rudeness, and you know it, yet act shocked when it is thrown back at you. I question someone who forms what he deems "relationships" with the players, but seemingly treats fellow supporters like dirt. If you're a player or coach you're invariably a top bloke. If you're a supporter who in any way questions the status quo or doesn't tow the company line, you're a "whinger" not worth the time of day. I applaud some of your contributions to the club, but god help us if everyone meekly accepted the way things were during the Neeld/Schwab era and tore strips off anyone who questioned it.

That's such a pathetic argument. As long as the attack isn't personal then we are well within our rights to pot players for certain reasons, whether that be skill level, commitment on the ground, work ethic etc. It's my right as a supporter and as a member of this club. It's no different than sitting in the pub with a few mates dissecting a loss over a couple of beers - we will praise the good moments and bemoan and criticise those that didn't go well. No-one is going to stop me having a crack at Jordie McKenzie for missing a set shot from 15 metres out by going: "Sorry but I've lost all respect for you now unless you rock up to training and tell him that to his face." That's simply ludicrous. You don't have to agree with the criticism of certain players, just as we don't have to agree with your bias towards many. But to say that you don't respect us because we can't say it to their face is childish and short sighted in the extreme.

I did. When Bailey was coaching it looked like the local side down the park. They yelled a lot, dropped balls all over the place and generally stuffed around. Neeld got rid of that crap and tried to make them act like they were professional athletes. Unfortunately he turned out to have no people skills and alienated pretty much the entire list by being too blunt and harsh. Roos came in and said basically he same things as Neeld, followed a lot of the same strategies, but he has the people skills and the experience to sell it to the players and the supporters. It's still the same mantra of get them fitter and bring in some older, bigger and more experienced players to balance the young list, but Roos managed to get better quality imports and got the playing group behind him.

His manager shopped him around before he even approached the MFC, so that's just revisionist history from Clark. Wouldn't surprise me if they went completely completely cold on him after he showed his true character. Doubt Roos would want him anywhere near the club after the way he sold us out. I'd wager he was pretty fed up with more than one member of the "leadership" group by the end of the season. All speculation of course. Maybe there is some truth to the other rumours.

I heard this on the radio late last year, Clark has done the opposite to Moloney. He's gone from Brisbane to Melbourne to Geelong (Monoley did the oppositie order). What does this have to do with anything? Nothing, but I found it interesting.

He is just relaying what he see's and hears, give it a break.

Agree totally, JVF. I, too, am interstate, and very much appreciate Saty's regular reports and comments re his banter with the players. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, and the constant sniping at him frankly pisses me off.

Funny how there hasnt been 1 leak from the tribunal since essendon weren't allowed in...

and don't forget lots of unfastened lightweight plastic chairs

McDonald's ability to run with his man and then run off and run the ball forward is invaluable. He was vital in the passage of play that led to Salem's goal against the bombers. Not all key backmen are sublime kicks and not many at all have McDonald's running ability.

So many had the thought, but you were the one to post. Respect.

Here's a few things I don't get: If you've caught the ball and are down by contact as Dez was, then that's the end of the play normally right? And if you catch the ball and control it the whole time then what does it matter if it moves in your arms as you go down as long as you don't lose it. That said I think they got it right according to the rules. But in an offensive league that gives so many soft penalties to offensive players I'd rather see them relax the rules on a catch.

Yeah I agree. If the ball stays in possession of the receiver it should be ruled a catch and if they attempt to reach out and lose possession it should be a fumble. To me that's what happened with Dez. But I would have to look at it again to determine if his knees were down before he attempted to gain yards by stretching out. I've seen games this year where a receiver has caught the ball with his hand under the ball and as his hand hits the ground he remains in control of the ball and puts it in his chest but it is ruled a incomplete pass as the ground aided in the catching of the ball. I dunno the exact rule but to me if it looks like a catch is it one. It is funny though as this Dez catch is the only ruling I can think of that doesn't aid the offense. The illegal use of hands is a penalty that does my head in sometimes. Taunting is an opinion of the official. It's not an exact ruling what is classified as taunting and what is celebrating? Even Peyton got done this year for talking a bit of smack and was flagged as taunting. Roughing the kicker is my ultimate dumb penalty. How can you attempt to smother a punt and not make any contact with the punter? If you attempt to smother the punt and miss the ball by an inch but then hit the punters shoelace it's a flag. It doesn't help that punters go down like Jesse Hogan just ran through them.

The atmosphere at the darts is incredible. If we can replicate that, then we are onto a winner. Not sure an announcer yelling "six" has the same ring to it than "one hundred and eigghhhttyy" But the dressing up of the fans could be done. I know we say in jest that more alcohol is probably not a good idea. But could you imagine if we had a big section of the crowd that dressed up, drank beer, sang and acted like yobo's. I think it's a winner.

Isn't it sad that we live on one play for the whole year.

I could watch that all day. So good.

To help build on the Casey relationship (and increase membership) I would take the following approach to recruitment, where you make it MFC policy to rookie list each year one player from Casey. This will: • Encourage many young footballers to pursue a career with Casey knowing that if they perform they could earn a spot on an AFL list • Provide for older players looking for one last shot at the AFL with a plausible Casey option • Cater for recycled AFL players who may also look to be furthering their career through Casey • Help create a very strong team (reserves) where Melbourne players must truly earn a spot • Likely develop a winning culture through strength and depth of the team • Encourage greater support in Casey due to the strength of the team (and possible success) which then creates greater exposure of the Melbourne brand through listed players playing for Casey • Increase MFC support as Casey players progress into MFC squads • Stronger Casey also means they have a greater capability to successfully replicate Melbourne’s game style, which would make it easier for players to transit to the AFL • An influx of more skilled/professional players dedicated to one last shot at the AFL will likely provide a development environment enmeshed in stronger work ethic It could be argued that this approach potentially weakens our team list, but in reality not many rookies make it (50 games) - particularly the last spot. Conversely as the practice is implemented it will likely create a more skilled pool to choose from, as more AFL hopefuls sees this as a possible avenue to the AFL. Of course if all AFL clubs adopt this approach then the effect is minimised, so like everything you need to be first (established practice) to reap the greatest benefits.

Firstly, I am a McDonald fan. I liked him the first time I saw him playing for Casey down at Werribee, had to ask someone who number 74 (I think that was his number) was. Him and Howe looked promising and both were playing senior football not long after that. As for setting up play, I think you are exaggerating to make a point here. Matty Scarlett is a prime example of a FB who set up play as does Harry Taylor from CHB and I don't think the Cats raised any white flags.

Bollocks. You personally attack most times you respond to other poster's comments. Your reply here is evidence of this.

Footballing ability? What have you been watching?Mcdonald is a fantastic footballer in terms of a defender. While his skills need a touch up its not as bad as your making out to be. What I love about him is he loves to back himself and attack. None of this chip sideways or backwards. Will only get better. I expect him to be pushing near All Australian next year.

If your FB/CHB is 'setting up play' you may as well raise the white flag, inform the bookies, and walk off the field. His pertinent skills involve what you don't see eventuating, not what you see him screw up a couple times a game. I really don't think that you could ask for a better 22 year old defender and his exposed form over his overworked first few years.

One of the main skills required to olay this game is the ability to kick the ball. He does not possess this skill.

The irony, considering the way you routinely attack posters on here if their opinion differs from yours.

Unfortunately I'll miss today's games, NFL pass has finished and due to the fact I'm moving to the country with no internet I've let it lapse as I'm getting foxtel. But it means I miss today's and next Monday's games

I think both sides to this have validity. Yes, T Mac in his primary role as a key defender has the makings of one of the competition's elite. But in the other facets he is positively awkward and sub-AFL standard. That is a concern no matter where you play in the modern game. Hopefully the skills and decison making will improve over time as it can often do. But it would want to start soon. And as a disclaimer for Saty's benefit, the above is not being said to "make myself feel better".

Well hell, why don't we just bring Strauss back and make him FB? He's a great kick, can set up play, has pace. He can't defend or win a 1-1 contest to save himself, but apparently those aren't qualities we look for in a key defender, so it won't be a real loss.

I think there is more to a full-back than to keep up on the lead with a full forward,which McDonald does well. It's actually his footballing ability that I find poor. Is he a decent contested mark? No, Is he good at setting up play from the backline? No. Can he make good, quick decisions with ball in hand? No. Can he dispose of the pill in a way that helps to relieve pressure on team-mates? No. I'm very sorry I expect more from an AFL-standard key defender. To me, ball in hand, he's like a deer in headlights. You'd hope with 60 games in the bank he'll develop into a McPharlane type in the future. But as I see it a Alistair Nicholson-type is more likely.

Baltimore looked like they had it in the bag first half, such a good game. One of the things that's interests me so much about NFL is how teams come out of the half and make those changes and can turn a game. Pats on the larger blitz packages made a difference. Loved watching Revis and Smith 1-1. Missed 2nd game. Broncs... Manning needs to be as 100% as he is these days for us to win. Need to be at least 2 tds up with less than 5 to go in 4th, Luck may find a way with only 1.

Still looks like him to me.

what struck me a lot was how hands off bails and neeld seemed to be at training...neeld more so it seems to me roos is much more hands on and involved. can only be a good thing methinks

I have not been to training for some years but I went to one at Moorabbin in Neeld/Craig last year and told Neeld/Craig after training I thougth the level was poor and very unstructured with most assistant coach goofing off and not doing their jobs. So if the new training methods mean the assistants doing some teaching/work this would be a change in itself. The training session I attended was about 2 weeks before the NAB cup. I was not surprised the team performed so poorly for the year. We supporters seem to watch training with rose coloured glasses, I find that people who say something negative are attacked and made to look stupid. By the way when my son was 19 he ran 5K in less than 16 minutes and he was a decathlete who's strengths were 100's and explosive events. So running 3K in over 12 minutes is reasonably poor.

Open up a smoking section at home games.

Do you get a good view from your high horse. If I cross the line with a question, the players tell me so, I have a really good relationship with most of them, having talked to them at other things besides training I didn't lay a finger on Michie never mind probe him, when players are in the rehab group I try and find out why, most tell me, if they don't that's cool, Viv said nothing so I left it at that, he certainly wasn't upset. Dave Misson will tell me why a player is missing, he even gave me advance warning about the run up Andersons Hill so I could get some good pictures for Twitter, the players like to favourite them If the players tell me something that I consider not the norm, I ask their permission to quote on here, most do, Howie with his contract, Dawes with his fitness etc etc I speak to the players once their training is finished, other supporters there do as well Every player I asked for a time for the 3k volunteered it Chris Salem loves soccer, he has finished training, it is his lunch time, we have a chat about a shared interest I even had a chat with Max King yesterday in Swan St when I bumped into him whilst myself and lady were out shopping To answer a couple of questions above, Howe was still with the defence, Vandenberg wasn't there this week, he looks ok been in rehab group so hasn't been doing much, Frost is big, strong and fast, reckon will have a real crack during NAB Cup, he is really happy being back in Melbourne, and feels part of the club already

I hate to do it but I must be serious for once. Today I had the pleasure of visiting two Islamic Indonesian families. One was an older couple who had their daughter , husband and three kids living with them The other were a younger couple with 3 kids who had developed an agricultural business from scratch . I visited them because I know a relative in Australia. Their hospitality was warm and generous. We discussed ( with some language limitations) a variety of topics. like us they aspire to a good life for themselves and a better one for their children. They practise their religion but were unconcerned by my lack of it. They were appalled by recent events in the world. I have Been to Indonesia a number of times and find this attitude to be typical. I just wish more people had the opportunity to see everyday Indonesian people in their own home

Viv is a very private person and very self conscious when talking about his footy. But he isn't rude and would just brush it off. Good kid and from what I know has no injury issues.

I always appreciate training reports from supporters that spend their free time watching the boys train, but I can live without the constant references to conversations had with, seemingly, every player and coach working for the MFC. Especially when it's readily apparent that many questions cross a line and are given the response they deserve. Would feel less uneasy if MFC players had an absolute focus on their training regime, structures and retention of Roosy's gameplan, rather than discussing Arsenal's latest loss. Was particularly perturbed by the probing of Michie on Wednesday, about an issue he clearly did not want to discuss. I certainly wouldn't walk up to a complete stranger in another workplace and ask what their problem is, if they looked upset.

Wonder how many people like Saty it would take before they started having to better protect players from the public. Imagine 500 members all wandering up and giving their opinions to the players in person. Get off your damn high horse.

All I can say is thank christ there are other members of this board who are able to attend training sessions and give informative and unbiased reports. Those are the ones I read these days. Reading the 'other' report is like Tim Robbins wading through the sewer to escape prison in The Shawshank Redemption, except the sewer is full and if you jump in you risk drowning in amongst all the turds. I choose not to do it.

He's on a roll.

If I lived in Melb my oath I would be telling him (Jordie) his short comings. Love your report Saty but "put themselves through hell both physically and mentally" give your head a wobble !! Hell is beating cancer or living through childhood abuse not being on an AFL list for 5 years & getting paid a Motza to live out your dreams.

Misleading stat. Do you ever think that due to a player - (in this case McKenzie) - being aware of his weakness at a given skill, (in this case kicking) he will always go a safe/short/backward option for fear of making a mistake which will lift his disposal efficiency making this stat look awfully silly without context? I can assure you that neither McKenzie nor Bail would still be on the list had our club not been so mismanaged in all areas over the past near decade. Again, misleading. Your training reports are fascinating. I enjoy reading them. But when it comes to objectively analyzing and critiquing players in which you have developed personal relationships with, it becomes impossible for you to do. Of course as you say, there are those on this forum who perhaps completely write off/slag off players and the club unfairly. But there are also those in-between who know that once certain players are pushed out of the side or moved on from the club, it'll be further evidence that the playing list is becoming stronger. Your care for each player on a personal level is endearing, but it stops you from seeing the bigger picture. Of course coaches know which individuals need to improve in certain areas of their game. Of course those individuals themselves know that there are areas of their game that need improving. Of all clubs within the AFL we're the one that has lacked the most talent and depth for years now. That is a result of having drafted and developed so poorly over the same time period. Which is a result of having the worst playing leaders, coaches and administrators within the AFL over the same time period. Do you not think that they're the reasons we've had players like McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson, Evans etc on our list for so long? Nicholson and Evans are gone. Why? Because we have now added talent and depth, which is a result of having competent on-field leaders, coaches, recruiters and admin. That will also continue next year. And whilst Jordie will be trying as hard as he can to improve areas of his game with coaches who will be working just as hard with him, the reality is he will not be on our list for much longer. And that is because he does not add enough at AFL level. Neither myself or any other Melbourne supporter needs to be an AFL qualified coach to be able to make that call. Nor do I need a print out of his kicking efficiency average from last year. It's the ability to critically analyze in an objective manner.

It's hardly our unique proposition...I would think on the whingers ladder we would be way down the list. Carlton would probably head it with Essendon by a mile, were in great form when Ratten & Knights were in charge. Essendon now whinge about anything, everything & anybody they see as out to get 'em including there own supporters and they boo their own players (Stanton) consistently. Carlton just can't help whinging, it's endemic. The Pies are not bad at it either, Eddie is one big whinge and the Tiges are set up for a big whinge fest in 2015.

Jordies stats are misleading - check out his handball to kick ratio and his long kicking ratio's. And the less we say about goal kicking the better !!! He is too scared to kick and holds up play to handball which upsets our fluency moving forward. Nothing wrong about his desire & commitment but IMO his disposal is too poor to be in our best 25. Happy to proven wrong !!

Such a pleasant way to start a day, reading up on Saty's fanboy butthurt rants over a cup of tea on a Friday morning. Carry on, lads.

No we are notBig difference between hitting targets at training and AFL gameday when intensity goes through the roof. Simple fact is Mckenzie has very poor disposal. Unless he improves that dramatically he will be gone at the end of the year.

Love the bit where Bernie starts to wax lyrically about Hogans running ability and calls him a 'special talent' and then backtracks as he remembers the unwritten club mantra of not building Jesse up too much

Also stoked by JKH, could be an exciting year for him!

1.Dawes - if Dawes gets back to his 2010/11 form he will take a weight off Hogan's shoulders and bring the likes of Garlett/JKH into the game 2.TMac - take the next step and along with Dawes two massive bookends sorted which helps us developing as a team 3. Jamar/Gawn - if Jamar can continue like he started last season (he is looking fit) and Gawn stays fit and steps up we will have a very good advantage with the sides from 7-14 and be keeping up with the powerhouses of the league in having a 1-2 tandem in the ruck/resting forward 4. Garlett - if Dawes, Hoges and the third tall create decent contests having a small crumbing forward being able to kick 40+ goals will take us to a place we haven't been since the early noughties 5.Tyson - he will be targetted more and I think he is good enough to deal with it, and if he continues to progress as he has this kid could be another Simon Black I will not put any pressure on Hogan if he just does his job, without being teh new Carey as some expect of a first year player, with Dawes hopefully getting back to his best and having a great year our forward line will function very effectively Toumpas, Viney, Frost, Kent, JKH, Petracca, Newton, Jetta and other developing players don't need to be in our best 5 they just need to maintain good consistent footy showing improvement and an upward curve for us to be a good side. Jones, Vince, Cross, Lumumba and I would even say Dunn well you know what you are going to get with them solid efforts and AFL standard week in week out

I write letters to them but never get responsed (sic)... I can't understand why not. I even sign off with my name and age, Timmy age 62 and a half. I just don't think they're as friendly as they used to be when I was 10. Must be a generational thing.

Most of the big brand Aussie beers are crap. Coopers are just OK. I like their Pale Ale best. There is something wrong when a beer has to be served a couple of degrees shy of being frozen solid to make it drinkable. Nothing beats good German and other European beers that still taste delicious at dare I say a balmy 15 to 18c.