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Barrett says "Forget Handouts Try Fighting". I have changed my mind on PP's, I agree. We should start fighting. Below is what I would start fighting for. An equal draw so everyone shares equally friday nights and the better days and times and the worst days and times. An end to club's Academies. This year and next the Swans will get 2 boys rated top 5 for a pick 20 in each year. A direction from the AFL that quality FA's must come to us and other lowly clubs if we offer similar money to the top clubs. An end to Salary cap benefits of some clubs like the Swans COLA and Carlton's Judd Visy deal. An end to the avoidance by some clubs of playing at Skilled Stadium. An end to AFL arrangements that deny clubs like Melbourne, access to players like the American, recently allowed to go only to Collingwood, because we didn't have the money to go to the USA to interview him. A reduction in the salaries of the executives of the AFL which can lead to more money for the clubs. There will be no problem in replacing them if they decide to leave. An end to the list benefits of club's like GC and GWS of more players on their list. An end to working parties of the AFL dominated by Eddie and his selected mates. Need I go on? Yes lets start fighting for our fair chance to improve on a level playing field and we can forget the PP.

The rest of the competition can bleat all they want but the reality is: 1. we are possibly the worst team to have ever played 2. we have lost top end talent through no fault of our own 3. we bottomed out at a bad time 4. we have financial issues because the draw is so rigged and the stadium deals are appalling and uneven we have chosen top picks that have not worked (for whatever reason) - this seems to be the main point of the 'do not give them a pick' camp. FFS we even had that moron Craig Hutchison suggesting an external committee should select any draft pick because we were so useless. 5.we have had seven coaches in 7 yrs 6. Our admin was terrible 7. we should have received a pick last year 8. we were [censored] over by the Kruezer Cup and the tanking investigation 9 Our leadership on-field sucks big time and we are particularly weak in the 25-30 age group which means we can't effectively develop players The argument against a PP runs: 1. they have had too many picks that they have wasted (aside from Cook, Gysberts, Maric, Tapscott, Strauss I'm not sure the others are directly our fault). 2. Its their own fault they deserve to wallow at the bottom. 3. they have had too many handouts These arguments are fallacious and reflect the fact the comp doesn't want to give a sucker a break. Its a competition and they are happy for us to fold. So if don't want us out of the competition (which might be a possibilty) there are only a couple of realistic options: Let us stink around the bottom for the next 4 years. Allow us to trade vigorously - up to 15 players need to be turned over IMO Give us picks to trade with. We have some adults in charge with good track records and importnatly the AFL trust them. The AFL don't have a lot of choice. In the past 10 years: Carlton has had four PPicks: Walker, Kruezer, Hampson and Murphy We have had 2: Scully and Blease Why are we pilloried when Carlton won 3 spoons in a row?? Why did they give PPs to Carlton yet won't give one to us?

Just because it's on the table doesn't mean we'll trade it away from nothing. Roos might know something we don't. Would you trade pick 2 for say someone like Shields? Of course you would. I trust Paul Roos. He is not just after quick short term fixes. He said himself after the game that this is a 3-5 year project. We didn't pay overs for anyone who was a short term fix, like Cross or Vince. Tyson is a long term prospect and was a great trade.

What's wrong with it being on the table? Dom Tyson has been one of our best trade week signings ever, and is only going to improve. Why not test the waters again?

hey, new to demonland, but hear me out, Jack had a team high 93% DE and equal 2nd best 4 tackles, The 2 goals we got in the 1st q were from jack, the first being his decision to move the ball through the corridor to jonesy , the 2nd goal trough hard work. I know it looks lazy when he loiters around packs, but that's what the coaches are asking him to do (why else would he do it time and time again!) it is the job of our inside mids to do the hard work to get the ball to jack so he can make the right decision (which he usually does). I was at the game on sunday and watched him closely, 90% of the time he leads to dangerous positions only to watch his team mates butcher the ball or go sideways, backwards or any other way but forwards. I know it sounds like im defending watts, but I just don't think he is part of the problem. We have way to many players whose first option is to bang it up forward ala vince and viney witout even a look to see who they are kicking it to. IMO watts best posie is on the wing similar to vince but with more accuracy. A bit of a ramble I know, but we have way more players who are twice as bad as watts, and they get away scott free.

Tyson is barely 21, yet to have a full preason, and will likely be runner up in the Bluey. Pretty friggin good "bandaid" pal. Also, you've just made it clear that you expect draftees to star and carry us, how did that work out from 2007-2013? Plus, you're ignoring the fact that 18 year olds don't develop properly without good mature players around them. You're falling into the same trap.

It's interesting that Rohan Connolly is adamant that Melbourne doesn't deserve one. The basis for his scepticism is because of the tanking controversy that dates back to 2009. It seems that we should be punished any number of times for our involvement in that situation, even five years down the track after we've already had an outcome and been punished twice or three times before. Connolly has regularly stood up for the club he supports over the drugs scandal (and to an embarrassing extent for a journalist who should be looking at the case from an unbiased perspective when he reports on it) and I wonder therefore what he would say if the Bombers had a dozen of their best players suspended for the next two years because they ingested the banned drug TB4? Would he have objections if the Bombers needed some sort of assistance from the AFL to maintain a viable playing list to be competitive in the AFL business? That's exactly what he's doing in our case.

Didn't we have this exact same poll last year? It's a keep for mine, but my reasoning is that: 1) we won't get much for him at the moment 2) the coach says he's fulfilling his role best as possible given that those ahead of him aren't necessarily fulfilling theirs 3) we have very, very players aged 22-25 with actual ball-handling talent and around 100 games experience - and for me this is why I wouldn't trade for a pick but a ready-made player if we were to trade 4) he has the talent to be a good player

100% keep. Easy decision.

Olisik - are you calling Tyson "another run of the mill hardworking midfielder"?

I am so furious and embarrassed by that performance that I have not been able to face demonland til now. I spoke with Simon Meredith this morning who is my IT man. Simon was umpiring his first game after nearly dying a couple of months ago. Its very rare for him to umpire a bottom of the table clash, but the AFL decided to give him a warm up game with us on the weekend. It was the first time he had umpired us since 2006. He said in all his years umpiring he had never seen anything like Melbourne's performance. He realised something was seriously wrong early in the game as no Melbourne players were complaining about Giant free kicks. He had never seen this before. Further he said there was little talk between the Melbourne players and no on field leadership. Jonesy and the other senior players needed to do more. Just passing on his comments.

Roosy is fine, mass hysteria over this. He minimised damage in defence, a pre season to combine that defence mentality with an attacking flair. This would be hurting him, but a more competitive man you will not meet. He will correct this.

Meth Coast won Premierships with a team of body builders, Carltank paid Judd under the table and used to hand players bags of cash, Sydney has been given their own bloody academy and a higher salary cap, Collingwood received favorable draws year after year, GWS still receive special picks, Gold Coast had the same deal plus the greatest player of his generation and Essendon have their own pharmaceutical division. Time for some pragmatism. I'll take the priority pick without a shadow of regret this year and, if need be, the year after that.

I've been sleepless over our performances since 1965.. Roos should consider himself lucky

We haven't gone begging for one. There is an AFL rule relating to PP's and you have to make a submission as to why you deserve one under the criteria. All we have done is follow the rules. Pity some other clubs don't follow the rules and stop signing up our players a year before they are allowed to.

evans should be censured and called out publicly for making pre-emptive comments about a pp before considering the case this is just more of the afl shooting off at the mouth and playing to the media and the court of popularity where are the real journos?

Cook and maybe Gysberts were surprise selections. All the rest were taken pretty much exactly where they were expected to go. Then we threw them all in the 22 for every game of the season, with no support, no quality mature players around to carry the load, no good mature players to teach and lead them, and wondered why they didn't develop properly. Have a look at how Salem and JKH have been handled this year, THAT'S proper development. 18 year olds are not our saviours. We should know that by now.

Given his history ( PR ) was this ever in doubt. Wasnt for me.

Exactly right. Barrett calls Melbourne embarrassing, yet I reckon his failure to understand the situation is embarrassing. As soon as someone says 'doesn't deserve a priority pick' I instantly think they have completely failed to grasp what is a relatively easy concept. It's not about 'deserving' at all. It's not a prize given out to a good performer. It's simply about 'need' - the question is simply whether the club needs assistance. It gets even more embrrassing when these journos state the reasons why we have been on the bottom for 8 years. Do they seriously fail to comprehend that THE reason why we have been on the bottom for 8 years is because we have stuffed up? Based on their reasoning, the corollary is that clubs should only get a priority pick when they draft well, develop well and make other good decisions (in which case you'd be sitting pretty in the finals). So on Barrett and others' logic we should give priority picks to successful teams. The other inherent failure in the argument that Melbourne has wasted draft picks before so a PP won't help is that why are you then so concerned about giving Melbourne a PP? If it hasn't helped before and won't help now, why bleat about it and get so uptight about it? That they bring up tanking is also a joke - firstly we have already been punished for that and secondly the conduct only occurred in one season, we have still been rubbish for the other 7 years. Then Barrett really raises his lack of intelligence to unprecedented heights by saying that we will already be getting a first round pick for Frawley. That has about as much relevance to the PP issue as the current fuel price. What Barrett is telling us is that because we are losing our fourth player to free agency and are getting compensated for that under a completely separate regime, we should not get a PP based on 8 years of poor performance. Again, the corollary is that if Frawley stays, we are more deserving of a PP. It is genuinely baffling how these people can just completely fail to grasp the concept. If they had half a brain what they would do is state the criteria for a PP and apply the criteria - because that's simply all that matters. Patrick Smith has done this and on SEN this morning he was of the view that we should get a PP. Even Caro on Footy Classified said there is a good case for one. Also good to see Evans has pre-judged the situation by commenting on it generally without assessing the merits of a particular case.

this is what's really hard ta the moment. My 8 year old daughter is struggling to stay interested in the footy while the demons are so bad, that's ok, I'm a bit the same, but the one thing she loves is Jack Watts', if he went, I think she would lose all interest in footy. Its not a reason to keep him, but it does hit home that Footy can still be emotional, and personal. I Love Jack, i know he is great around the club. I loved that he signed on when he had every right to leave after his treatment. I'm really passionate about this, i want Jack to stay and i want him to contribute to our rise. I know most fans are fed up with him and his non competitiveness. I love when he has the ball in his hands, more than not he sets us up, does not waste it. Needs to be stronger, needs to be more urgent. Im in the minority i know. But im loyal, i love him, he is a great bloke and i want him to be a demon for life and a good one at that.

I find it laughable people are saying that we don't deserve a PP due to stuffing up previous drafts. This is the exact reason that we need one. If we had have aced our drafting, and the record shows that we didn't, we wouldn't be having this conversation. The path that we have taken to got to our current position is irrelevant. What's relevant is our ongoing poor performance and the clear fact we need serious changes to the list. People were dumbfounded a couple of weeks ago when out of nowhere Roos raised the subject of tanking, saying that under his team there would be nothing of the sort. It all makes sense now, this throwaway line at his press conference was a precursor to us applying for a PP. He was grooming the public and AFL, effectively saying that every round of this season, we are trying hard to win. But again, the stats show that we are crap, and we need help. The timing of our application just happened to be after the most embarrassing loss of the season. I'm sure if the score line had have been reversed, we wouldn't have been applying on Monday.

Absolute amateur hour from Peter Jackson and the club, you really have to wonder who provides the media and strategic advice at the club, it really is a shambles and as whole the club is like a gaffe-prone politician. Absolutely ridiculous that a club with a perceived tanking history would, after serving up one of the worst and most inexplicable performances in its history (a loss which has strengthened its end-of-year draft and trading possibilities immensely) ask for a priority pick 24 hours later and before the end of the season. Pure comedy, embarrassing and Jackson's performance here is awful in my opinion.

you are kidding yourself he's played 33 games and he consistently racks up 30 touches and doesn't mind a goal either basically the only bloke on the list who actually looks the goods

We need a proctologist to extract the players heads out of their arses

I love this idea, it could generate plenty of additional revenue. Step 1 - the club hires a couple of full time counsellors Step 2 - they set up a full time clinic in the bowels of the MCG Step 3 - MFC members can pay a premium to get free sessions during any game at the MCG.

Oh god, the delusion when it comes to this guy just goes on and on and on.. Just face it. The penny isn't dropping and is showing little sign of dropping. I was one of the ones saying "the penny will drop" 3 years ago when the same arguments were being had about him. He isn't just an easy target. His lazy efforts do stick out as being particularly worse than others. Is he just unfit? Who knows. But he can't compete. Players like Watts--types who easily get outmuscled and have no appetitie for the contest--are not what we need in our position. We are a decade away from being in a position where Jack Watts would be a nice to have. He could well go to a top team and become a contributor. We are not a top team. We need 22 gut running soldiers if we are to ever get out of this god forsaken hole. I don't want to bash him and I'm sick to death of talking about him. I like him as a person and I still cheer when he does something worth cheering for. But the same issues aren't being rectified. They're arguably worsening. The change is surely needed in the interests of his own career, not just the interests of the club. A late first round or early second round and it should be taken. Another year like this one and we really will get nothing for him.

I think Roos is putting pick 2 on the market so to speak to entice clubs to lower their objections to us getting a PP as theres a chance they could trade in for it...

How do you know? Look at the potential superstars we drafted. Watts. Scully. Trengove. Sylvia. McLean. Cook. Need I go on? Would you trade for example, pick 2, for a very good GWS player and pick 4?

I cannot stand two of his simpleton arguments, arguments that are regulalry trotted out as to why we should not get a PP, even here on on DL. One. We don't deserve it. Please spare me such young liberal rubbish. Using that logic you could argue that no bottom clubs should receive equalization payments. Two. We will get compo for Frawley. Leaving aside the fact that he may not go (though it seems accepted by all that he will) this is compo for losing one of our best players and one of the precious few senior players with more than 100 games. It has nothing to to do at all with the PP. Nothing. And even if you argued it did, if anything it should increase our chance of getting a PP rather than diminish it as it hurts our chances of improving. Not giving us a PP because of compo for Frawley would in fact be penalizing us rather than the purpose of the (weighted) compo which is to ensure the bootom clubs are not unduly hurt by FA . And if it really was a factor in the decision to give us a PP we would be better getting in a highly ranked FA, which would water down our compo and by Barret's (and other's logic) mean we might then be eligible for a PP. Madness. What about just applying the AFL formula. If we get it based on that, great. If we don't then so be it but as i said earlier surely the PP system must then be axed completely. I assume the formula does not include a moral weighting for deserving or undeserving candidates. Nor would include compo received for FA or any other equalization measures (such as payments). So mind boggingly moronic.

Geee we have so many players that are capable of kicking the ball accurately we should offload some to other clubs. Burn the witch! Think you all need to look elsewhere, Jack is not the problem.

if we don't get a priority pick under the equalization rules then we should do an essendon and say to hell with the afl and take them to court over the unfair fixturing claiming extreme prejudice

Some of us need to get over ourselves. We need draft assistance. I'm not embarrassed that we've asked for assistance, I'm embarrassed by our performance yesterday, which underlined just how bad a shape our list is in.

Stay in Amsterdam, spend your money on pros and drugs and start following soccer.

I would guess that this single-mindedness is what allowed him to flourish in an environment where all his contemporaries were failing.

It has to be done...we need ready made players who can help win games... We no longer have the luxury of waiting...wait any longer & the heart will not beat true any more.... Roos has only 2 more years...this one is a write off

100% agreement Stuie This club needs players with a few years under their belts not 18 year old kids who might be good in 2018. All kids will lead to oblivion.

Isn't that what the club needs? To be fixed? We've got enough long-term players to work with: Salem, JKH, Toumpas, Kent, Hogan, Barry... The list goes on. We'll have, or rather I'll assume we'll have, the compo pick for Frawley that'll land us a highly rated draft pick. Trading away our pick 2 last year seems to have paid off handsomely. One of the few things the club has done right.

I reckon when Roos says pick 2 is on the table, he really means pick 3 which we will get for Frawley, but he cant say that. Keep pick 2 - Draft Petracca (Saints will take the big boy) Trade pick 3 (Frawley compo) for ready made player and later first round pick. e.g. pick 3 & 20 for Pick 8 and Player x.

I think what we saw on the weekend was very symptomatic of a bunch of whom there are more than a few question marks and more than a few self realisations they are for the furnace. Some have given up....on themselves. Some are no doubt tired of the journey so far and its taking a toll. Some are fresh to this particular grind and still have it in them to fight. Some had there minds elsewhere for sure. probably only half turned up to actually give 100% on the day. Not because it was any actual decision to just because thats where theyre at. I saw some hurt out there. I later saw an image of Gawn, wish i could find it....He was gutted, borderline crying.Just empty. Not everyone quite seemed this way. Some just seemed detached, some even looked half glad the pain was over. Max looked angry, not nearly enough were angry. Well , not on that side of the fence !!

Imagine how many decent "run of the mill hard working midfielders" we would have if we had given up potential superstars like Morton, Cook, Gysberts, Blease... and on and on. The draft is still a gamble. We don't need more "potential", we need more quality.

We picked up two good quality midfielders in Vince and Tyson, to add to our stocks of ONE other good quality midfielder in Jones. Sadly, as much as Roos did last off season in terms of trading in players to fill holes, we still have enormous deficiencies which cannot be fixed by drafting. As well as the midfield we have a gaping hole up forward which Hogan cannot fill. I'm all for us trading our top picks again, for the right price.

I voted to keep and "reprogram" him. Sadly, he's actually one of our best players which says more about the rest of the list than it says about Watts. He needs to be "reprogrammed" in two ways. First, he needs his body built up further, particularly around the hips, so he can keep his feet better and perform better in contested situations. And secondly, he needs time with a sports psychologist, not just to instil desire into the way he goes about his football but also to help him appreciate his skills and not worry so much about what everybody else says about him. It can't be helping him that he keeps reading and hearing about how he hasn't lived up to expectations. And I would play him on the wing. Our biggest failing this year has been the final delivery into the forward 50. He is the most skillful player in the team and more likely to spot up Dawes, Hogan, etc than any other player.

I voted to trade. The fact of the matter is he has had plenty of time to develop and improve his game, and he hasn't. I'm not saying that it's Jack's fault and there are a number of others in the same boat but the bottom line is that we can't wait forever for players like him to develop. There has to be a time when we cut our losses and move on and this will be required to, in part, begin shedding more of the baggage that has held this club down for far too long. A question for those who voted 'to keep', how long does he get?

Only if their club was in the same situation would a PP be warranted.

Wonder at the post below.: Bingo! Screwing up our previous high draft picks is MORE reason to give us draft assistance, not less. EVERY TEAM THAT REQUIRES DRAFT ASSISTANCE 'BRINGS IT ON THEMSELVES'! St Kilda will need one in a few years because Lyon decimated their draft picks to find experienced pros in a chase for the flag - they will have to get all their draft picks right to avoid being in the wilderness like us for 7 years. APPLY THE GOD DAMN RULES! That is all we are asking.

I believe we deserve a pp only because it was designed for circumstances like those melbourne are in. not winning enough games. yes we have had a lot of top 20 picks but so what, picking someone does not mean it will translate to them being successful.We have had top ten picks leave who obviously would have assisted us, we gave up a top 10 pick to Bank Hogan so was a pick that did not provide us with a top 10 player in that year. . While i think there is certainly an element of MFC not being able to develop players we have not seen a lot from those players we drafted, we can see quite a few early and even late draft picks in other clubs that come in and make it and stay in the team, ours for whatever reason did not make it. Main criticism is from the powerful clubs that have lots of money and resources who laugh at us while they have lots of medico's, additional trainers, better facilities and trips to the rockies and say its our fault that we dont develop. Well we are trying but we are still working from a position far back in the field. We are also getting crappy TV times while the big boys continue to take up prime time television. If melbourne does not get a priority pick then we need to start to agitate to get more prime time spots, by agitate I would suggest we even threaten to take the afl to court for discrimination. As others have said collingwood gets a bum crowd and starts talking about compensation and that is a crowd that we at melbourne would probably be pretty happy with given our past drawing power. The MFC had 32,000+ supporters sign up this year, which is pretty good considering for each one that signs up there is probably another 4 or 5 that dont, the AFL runs the risk of alienating these people from football if they continue to play favourites, once melbourne has gone then others like stkilda and footscray will probably not be far behind, as this turns even more ruthless in the pursuit of $$ and premierships. Melbourne has had top ten and priority picks, but after the Goldcoast and GWS have scooped up the best. Sydney has tippet and buddy and really is buddy going to play for 10 years? Collingwood with their yank, GWS and Sydney with their training academies, eagles with their drafting of an ex top junior footballer who went to america for a few years so can be drafted without going into the pool. Essendon with their drugs which by the sounds of it the AFL knew before being told, if so what the hell were they doing about it, plus the infamous tanking saga, where only one club was investigated and only one club was punished and has that sigma attached to them. This is a business and every club is looking for their own advantage, we are seeking what is due us by the rules, the rules do not state that if you have had x picks before you are ineligible. If we are due it then give it to us.

The reality is - many other, some much larger, clubs have had much more assistance than us in terms of draft picks, salary cap relief and a soft touch being applied in relation to the so-called tanking issue. That one of the best lists in the game can land Kurt Tippett and Buddy Franklin, pretty well after winning a flag, and yet everyone calls foul when we simply ask for something that might assist us to secure a player like that says it all. That we've been utterly hopeless over a long period of time adds weight to the granting of a PP, not the opposite. It's never been designed to go to the really successful clubs. In fact, I actually find it hard to see why successful clubs like Sydney consistently get a leg up - it goes against the whole underlying methodology of the draft. That the MFC was dragged through the ringer on tanking, for as long as it was, and on the basis of literally farcical evidence, was absolutely outrageous. It was also really dumb - but many of those writing the articles and running the investigation have proven themselves time and time again to be just that, so I shouldn't be surprised. In the circumstances, it is abundantly clear that the MFC needs a PP. Why give GWS and the Suns literally dozens of first round draft picks in recent years in order to get them up and running, only to deprive the MFC one now in its circumstances. Makes little sense to me.

Saw the heading of an article today which I didn't read saying do Melbourne deserve a priority pick? So does the oldest club in the league, in the heart land of Aussie rules deserve to survive? Does GWS and Gold Coast deserve the picks they've had? Does Sydney be afforded the opportunity to sign Buddy up for 1,000,000 years at $1,000,000,000 per year? The games gone to the dogs ie foxtel and I'm glad I'm relaxing in Koh Samui

What PP player do we have on our list?You of course are against the unfair draw some clubs get which affect wins and revenue. Also draft academy's of some clubs . The Swans will get 2 boys in the next 2 years who are top 5 but will go at about pick 20 for them each year. Also that the Pies were allowed to take an American player this year who was denied to clubs like us which couldn't afford to go the US to interview him there. Also the extra salary cap of some clubs which allow players like Buddy and Tippett to go there. Also FA which has been brought in to bolster the top clubs as has become evident. We will lose our 5th player this year to it. See any champs under FA asking to come to us? Also rules made on the hop like the Judd salary sham allowance from Visy yet denied in 3 seconds when we suggested we would do the same to try and retain Scully. Yes you are against all these handouts aren't you, or only one given to us because we are crap as a result of our incompetence and the system we play under.

I'm thrilled to find out that Melbourne fans have still got capacity to be embarrassed by anything we do. Humiliation has been my default setting since Round 2 last year. Give us everything, I don't care what unwashed fans of other teams think.