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So this is where Mitch is at. Since getting help his mental state has dramatically improved. This is clear for all to see. However, as others have pointed out clinical depression is a difficult beast that is not cured rather it is managed. We all hope Mitch learns to manage his depression so as he never falls to the depth of despair he did earlier this year. Getting professional help and reliving himself of the pressure of AFL football while he heals was the best thing he could have done. Mitch has let the MFC know that he still harbours the desire to play AFL football in fact he never ruled it out, but he is under no illusion of how far he must come to get back to an AFL level and that he may for both physical and mental reasons never make it. Mitch has asked Misson to put him on long term program to condition his body back for a possible return to football at some level. Mitch has begun this training. It is a slow conditioning 12 month program. If things are going well both physically and mentally Mitch will consider making himself available for a rookie list position at the end of the year. However, he may decide he would prefer no pressure and decide to play local football next season. He may be unable to condition his body, he may relapse into depression in which case his retirement is permanent. Only one thing is certain, if he does decide to pursue AFL ambitions again it will only be for the MFC. He will not be returning to WA, he does not want to play for any other club.

My depression cost me a job that I really loved. Whilst I can empathise with Mitch's predicament I would never presume to understand it. Depression is different for each individual. It has some common elements but the experience and outcomes vary so widely that it's dangerous to try and make definitive statements. I'm back in a job that I enjoy but I'm never sure when I'm going to be bitten by the black dog. Maybe we should all just wish him well and move on.

Why? Jamar isnt going to be around forever, gawn is still learning. Costs nothing and has had 6 years invested in him. He has come a long way from where he was. Congratulation pencil, hope you can keep taking your game forward.

Just one minor comment (and I love your stuff GNF!) about depression. "Clinical depression" is just "depression" - if depression is not at a "clinical" level, then it is not depression. Depression is episodic - it comes and goes. Around about 20 - 30% of people with depression on a waiting list for treatment recover spontaneously. Repeated depressive episodes create a vulnerability to relapse (just like people suffering repeated injuries can keep doing them). Depression can be treated successfully in the majority of cases. There are a number of treatments with high quality evidence about their efficacy. And finally, depression is influenced by variables such as situation, personality, levels of social support etc. I want to be completely clear that depression in the majority of cases can be treated successfully and be resolved. Completely. Yes the person is marked by the experience, but that does not mean that they are some vulnerable emotional egg-shell waiting for life to crack them. Treatments work and recovery is commonplace. Yes, it is bloody hard, but this happens and happens routinely.

if he was maurie would that count as self-harm?

I'm comfortable with the logic and therefore the decision. He and Jamar are currently the only players on our list capable of playing first ruck. I doubt he will play a lot of footy while Jamar is in the side, but he's adequate and necessary backup while others develop. It also feels like he's been on the list forever. Surprised me to see that he's only 24 - he's still really just a pup in ruckman years. It seems funny to still be thinking of a player like Jake in terms of potential, but he's big, strong, aggressive and committed. I reckon he's still got stacks of improvement left in him.

Think of Jake's salary as the insurance premium on Max's knee.

The comment that worried me the most was something along the lines of "I'm looking for 100% improvement all the time or improvement 100% of the time. To me that was a give away. Setting a standard that can't be reached. At the beginning of the year it was "I'm looking for improvement." Now there's clear massive improvement he's moving the goalposts. It's not just 100% improvement but it's also the chance of a Premiership. What does that tell you. Tell's me he's gone. I don't especially blame him. He's been the player most under the pump for his whole career being the last line of defence being bombarded and not able to compete properly no matter how well he plays. Week after week, year after year for 8 years. But on the other hand, that's all being fixed now and as others have said we are probably one of the teams with the most upside over the next 3-5 years. Could you say that about the Hawks who's window is closing week by week. I believe they are the most likely destination. They have a desperate need for him with Lake about to retire, they have plenty of room in the salary cap. They are a great Club, although most of their stars will be gone in 2-3 years and they'll be doing a major rebuild by then whereas we've done ours. I wouldn't go to Freo if I was him. They are also going to need to go through a rebuild over the next 2-3 yrs. They already seem to be dropping off, although there is a lot of season still to go. Plus they are Freo which means interstate travel every other week.

Honestly, I'm well over this Frawley situation. The guy is a pea heart and has very little going on up in that nogan of his. He is clearly being swayed by the opportunity of a big pay packet and being thrust in the limelight as a KP 'star'. His attitude is appalling for a player of his experience and age at our club. Take a leaf out of Dunn's book fcs James. If you want to show your commitment and your 'loyalty' as a player, what better opportunity than to do it at this stage of the season?! If you want to wait, stop banging on about how you love the club and are a loyal country boy. It's substanceless. He is really irking me now. It means his mind is not on the job. He is aware now that his form as an individual is going to help determine a pricetag. If he goes, I don't care because I'm hopeful we'll receive more than enough compo to cover him down the track. But I will vomit if I keep reading this automated dribble about his supposed love for the club and loyalty as a player.. Dunn has just set a great example of someone who genuinely cares about the club and his contribution to help build it. It makes Frawley look like a fool for saying what he keeps saying..

*Peel player

No they couldn't. We use the NEXT available pick. If we have picks 9 and 27 to be forced to use pick 9 one of the first 8 teams have to nominate him. If we don't want to spend pick 9 then the bidding team must take him. If pick 10 nominates him we can get him for pick 27.

What on earth are you thinking?????

Does Gerard Healy going to the Swans ring a bell ? It gave me much pleasure that we towelled up the Swans in the 1987 finals when Healy jumped ship to play with the Swans as they were a real finals side ( but as you can see - i don't hold a grudge)

As much as the priority here is Mitch's health, reading the last line brought a big smile to my face. Thanks for the update.

I know for a fact in the last two games he played, his ankle was heavily strapped and he was jabbed up, to perform how he did is a credit to him, also listen to what Roos' has said "you need a ruck departrment these days", Jake seems to have been around for ages, but he is still only 25, so he could see out another 5 years

Now don't go turning this highbrow educational thread into something silly.

Cale Morton, Josh Bootsma, Jordan Gysberts, Richard Tambling...Kinda like a slower Justin Sherman. Spread the word. Tell your recruiter friends.

Is Dom, is good.

4 of us go every home game and it staggers me that anyone thought Lynden was ever a delist. I have been a great critic of us not going deep enough into many drafts due to hanging onto some players too long, however, I have never understood the over the top ridiculing of LD on this forum.

I think the Hawks have got this year in them if they can get their players back on the park but the list is ageing and Buddy is a big loss for them, they just don't really know it yet. Next year will be more of a raffle. Maybe Frawley should have a word to Bucks after the game on Monday and learn the difficulties in picking winners...who would of thought Brisbane would get 3.

I was wrong about Pedo amongst others. I am happy to sit back and let those in charge do what they think is best for this club.

I miss Godders.

Personally I just live in hope he'll play for us again.

His change in form is noticeable to those of us who have been watching him since he kicked three goals against Geelong one Friday Night about 8 years ago. He has been tried as a forward, as a mid, as a tagger, and a couple times as a defender. In 2013 he nailed what has been so elusive and he worked on his on field discipline and, as he mentioned in that article announcing his deal, his leadership. He is a different player and as I said above he has himself and hard work and persistence to thank for that. But it also the patience of a few coaching groups and personnel managers to thank too. Players improve. We have seen it with Dunn, we have seen it with the work-in-progress Watts, we are seeing it with Pedersen and with Jetta and with Matt Jones. The best example is Nathan Jones. What a player he is! He has come on from what he showed in his first 6 years. Subjective analysis is just that and Demonland is full of it, and sometimes so are posters... Lynden has left the faux bravado and the jumper punching behind and he is the better player for it.

Not all that fussed one way or another. Happy if he stays and if he goes we get some compensation. I don't think James Frawley is worth a reported $ 800 g to the Melbourne football club Nup. If money is the criteria then cest la vie. Worth 500- 600 no more no less. Lets build our team around blokes who want to be around the place which will build our culture. That's my take! Fence!

I'm thinking Riley over Toumpas for the grunt factor, we need to apply consistent pressure over the whole game and I don't think Jimmy gives us that yet. Having said that I wouldn't be surprised either way.

JKH on Marngrook earlier, impressive young man

As far as the club is concerned, Nov/Dec is too late for next season. As far as Mitch is concerned, and this should go for all of us, the club doesn't matter in this case. If that's how long he needs, then too bad for the club, it probably won't work. Mitch's health is paramount.

I thought we weren't allowed to post porn videos on demonland.

Really tired of the mind games from someone who was nominated a leader of the club. Setting a terrible example now that we're making such tangible progress under Roos, to constantly say he's waiting to see what progress we make before he recommits. The progress is bloody obvious, so are you part of this or not Chip? What lousy leadership. No one player is bigger than the club but he certainly seems to think so. Crossy is getting paid less and is my idea of a true leader for our young players.

"Answer: No, he's still undecided. Stay tuned cause after the break, we have updates on the latest Justin Bieber controversy"

Congrats to Tommy Mac who'll play his 50th game on the big stage this weekend. Although much is said about his disposal, he's easily become one the top defenders going around which is incredible considering he's only 21 and about to play his 50th game. Great one on one player and a key prospect for the future for the Dees. Hopefully we retain him.

Spencer is in front of Jamar at the same age. Remember Jamar was a late bloomer. Ref :- Fooytwire. http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=12&pid1=2751&tid2=12&pid2=282&type=A&fid1=O&fid2=O

No it won't. As long as there is a cap there will be chances for talent to move in both directions. And players holding out for their value is good for the competition. Clubs getting players to stay on smaller contracts is bad for the competition. In the US, it is extremely rare for teams to re-sign players outside of the offseason and even outside of the offseason that they are off-contract. I am sorry, calm down and get used to it. It is their job and future and Frawley taking his time doesn't faze me at all. We either keep him or we have a top 6 pick and a spare $700k. Clubs dither on players and see their options - players have every right to do the same. It's not a failure of leadership.

Well done, Jake. Personally, I think the guy has a lot of up-side to him, and he will continue to improve. Fact is, he's played only a handful of games. Give him another year or so under Roos, and who knows what he might produce?

Congats to Spencil and the club. For any one who wants to question list management decisions, just remember Paul Roos is in charge and we should all bow to his superior knowledge and judgment. In Roos we trust. Well done Jake.

Why??Just why?? I would increase it....

Yep, it's good, didn't make the same mistake twice.

Salem is actually more of an inside player. Thats where he played in the TAC cup games and he was averaging something ridiculous like 144 SC points a game. The kids can seriously. Cant wait till he hits the 70 game mark.

get velcro numbers just in case

I don't know if he will stay or go, but personally I think he has had a poor season year so far. If only one of them could be picked, out of Chip or Cam, I know who would be left out. That is a remarkable turnaround for soemone who is being spruiked at $800k a year.

We already have.

I had a conversation with Jack Trengove before the Darwin game a couple of years ago. Even then Tom Mac was very highly regarded among the playing group. Trengove was amazed at Tom's running ability both endurance and speed. This guy could become one of our great players.

And JKH is cousins with Patton!?!? I hope this has been brought to Roosy's attention!!! JKH has leadership group written all over him. What a well spoken young man, like him a lot!

Totally endemic of that era, unfortunately. Took some great marks and kicked some wonderful goals. Loved him as a player early on, but slowly grew to find exactly those negative traits that you outline, M. Very, very excited by Salem though. Can't wait to see him in this game.

Watts admits that he was swayed when Roos took over as coach and I have no doubt he was seriously considering leaving. Well Chip knows what is on the table at that Roos will most likely coach for the next 2 years. Judge people by what they do NOT by what they say. Dunn set the standard today by signing up now and that is real leadership. The ball is firmly in Chips court and the longer he delays the more inclined I am that he will go. PJ has said that the succession plan will not happen till post seasons as they consider the candidates. Chip will not know who the next coach will be when he makes his decision. Good on you Lyndon

sylvia or vince....no contest.

Tool and NIN fans go hand in hand for the most part. For the record, Mitch posted Korn lyrics the other day, which is disappointing.

What i can remember: Agrees with Roosy about Zoneball Believes its starting to come together Wants to continue that growth and development Seeing consistent performances Plenty of areas to improve. Few questions asked: Roosy's influence? His response included - Way he has been able to galvanise everyone. Everyone looked up to him. Brings everyone together (coaches and players). Team is first etc. Focus on defence? how do you explain it (looking magnificent)? Not a fitness issue in the past, Early rounds turned the ball over more often than not so defending more than should be, other teams more efficient with ball use (retention - geelong etc). Excited about monday? exciting for US, another great challenge for us with where we are at as a group. We are really clear on where we are heading.. Looking forward to it. Dunn turnaround (since moustache)? Very happy he signed on. Cam pederson? Simplified the whole thing, went back to basics, doing the real team thing.. Finished on: Still got a long way to go but its really exciting!

He actually played good footy last year. Its not all Roos' doing... Just sayin....