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Nice to see in a short article on the Club website that Mitch Clark was at training this morning, catching up with the boys, and apparently in good spirits. Hopefully it's a sign that he's on the mend. Sure hope so.

Missed the start, saw Spence was there but didn't see him as he was gone before we got there. Lot of kicking practice when I first arrived and they looked great it what was perfect conditions, must have seen 100 running passes but only saw the ball hit the ground 3 or 4 times. The skills exist , just need to learn to execute them under pressure. Next up, the boys moved the ball moved the ball from one end to the other, sprinting hard up the ground with players often receiving a handball from the person that had just marked their kick. Called for hard running this drill, the players all put in. Watching Watts run hard, couldn't help wonder why we don't get that body language and hard running in a game. The kid has all the ability in the world and just needs to back himself. Maybe he should call Brendon Goddard and invite him out for lunch one day. Also did some match simulation work, not tackling hard but closer to the real thing than you often see at training. Here the skills were not as sharp, generally pretty good but the pressure led to some mistakes. The mids, defenders and forwards (Watts in The later group) the split up. The defenders practiced clearing the ball quickly, the mids working on the centre bounce set up and the forwards finding a leading target in congestion, blocking was used to help here though marking was terrible to start with, only Dawes holding them, got better fortunately. Goal kicking practice followed by quite a few. Watts (who I followed closely due to the fact my 4yo daughter loves him and was constantly having to show her where he was) then did a drill involving picking the ball up on the run while getting hit by a couple of trainers with the pads, then a marking drill where he copped a hit just before jumping for the mark. Got some great pics of my daughter with Chunky, then the Russian, Wattsy and then Jack Viney. She was beaming in the photos and if the players happen to read this, thank-you for being great with her.

Turned up around 11 (no sign of Clark). Stayed til 5 past 12. Pretty full compliment out there as far as I could tell. No Spencer, King, Harmes, Trengove or Hogan but the rest did most of everything. Garland moving well and involved in everything. No sign of a knee complaint. Tappy left early but after some good work. Jamar sat out some match simulation but then rejoined. Drills Started with a few stations of different drills mainly working on short kicking. Then in to their customary full ground ball movement drill in groups of 5 or 6 moving the ball from backline to forward and in for a goal Then in to a 16 on 16 drill with the starters in blue, back ups in vest working on moving the ball from a half back stoppage. After that the same kind of drill but either from a kick out or from a man at half back Then in to positional groups. Midfield working on stoppages. Forwards on kicking to leading targets. Backs on ball movement out of the back half Notes Watts training as a forward, RIP the midfield experiment? Bail and Salem in with the midfielders Strauss with the forwards. Blease with the backs, Possibly a desperation move to save their careers? Howe training with the backs Clisby spend some of the drills with the 1's group, but then back in a bib Garland was in a bib the entire time, maybe Casey for him again Kent looked good but was also mainly in the seconds line up The early drills were pretty fluent. But the second match simulation drill was a dogs breakfast. JKH playing for the 2nds team (not many forwards in the 1's team wouldn't read much in to it) kicked a couple of goals from turnovers. Howe getting too creative through the middle and missing a leading Watts. Terlich kicking long from a kick out to McDonald but not too his advantage. Roos stopped the drill to ask Terlich who he was kicking too and why it wasn't the ruckman. Watts actually had some moments as a leading forward where he got on his bike and found space. Who knows if him forward again will help. I have my doubts. Roos stopped the drill for a good 5 minutes to work out why on Earth from a starting position of N. Jones from the half back flank he couldn't get 18 on 18 (a couple had headed to the bench to even up the numbers) and why the players weren't in the right spots. Eventually he got the forwards down the line in the right spot and 60-100 from the ball. The midfielders bunched inwards about 40m from the ball, the defenders fanned out for the switch and the forwards guarding them in the right configuration. I heard him scream "No your role, play your role". It was dispiriting that 36 of them couldn't work out the right spots and be there. From the right spots the play actually moved forward pretty well. Roos brought them in for a big chat after that, clearly not impressed. But he was coaching and directing them. One piece of play right in front of me frustrated me. The ball was kicked to Frawley out at half forward who drops back to mark with space from his opponent. But Pedersen leading up tries to call Frawley out. Frawley rightly stands his ground and marks with a quick 'call me back' to Pedo. Then Chip gave him the death stare after the play was over. Just a simple error from Pedo not to call Frawley in and protect him, but a fundamental none the less.

This forum is moderated?

GIVING HELL by Whispering Jack Sitting in the stands last Saturday night at the MCG wasn't the most pleasant experience for those who go to the football to taste the aesthetics of the game. It wasn't the night for pretty football, for excitement and skills and we weren't witnessing a game made in heaven for either the participants or the viewers. We are, after all the Demons and you could be excused for thinking that this was a game that those unfortunate enough to make it to that place, would spend countless hours playing this game out in hell. When Paul Roos signed on to take over the mantle of coach of the Melbourne Football Club, he never promised anyone a rose garden and we should not expect overnight changes to make the team immediately perfect. As far back as 2005 when he was with the Sydney Swans, Roos' coaching style was criticised by the then AFL CEO Andrew Demetriou who described his negative, defensive game plan as "disgusting" and "ugly". Those remarks were made during a game against St. Kilda which the Swans lost by seven goals but they appeared to be a catalyst for the team from the harbour city as they marched on to win the flag later that year. Not only that, but history records that the Sydney Swans scored only 8.10.58 to beat the West Coast Eagles by four points in the grand final. When Roos was appointed coach last September, he said, "It's going to be a huge challenge, there's no doubt about that. "They're certainly not sugar-coating it - I know what I'm coming into. I know it's going to be a very difficult job. "I'm really looking forward to setting a direction for the players and the football club, and setting some really high standards." Paul Kelly once sang that from little things, big things grow and, back in those stands on Saturday night, it wasn't hard to notice that we were watching the very budding of those "little things". Sydney came out of the blocks and had two goals on the board within five minutes thanks to a lucky bounce that favoured Luke Parker followed by an even luckier free kick and goal to expensive import Buddy Franklin. Melbourne was denied such luck in the opening term but it displayed some great resistance and aggression over the next fifteen minutes for a reward of a single goal to Shannon Byrnes while Jack Watts and Jeremy Howe dropped marks in front of goal that could have made a significant difference. They were made to pay when the Swans added two more in time on but the 4 - 1 goal scoreline was deceptively misleading. The game got uglier in the second quarter when the Demons scored the only goal for the term in a defensive slugfest but when was the last time that they kept a top four contender goalless for an entire quarter? So it went on, the Demons fought hard against the relentless strangulation of the Swans. Both teams played behind the ball, the visitors did it better and with the more skilled and experienced players, they ran out winners while the football world moaned at what it saw. They spoke in the end that Melbourne's average score for the season was its lowest since 1919, a winless wooden spoon season in the club's return after a three year recess during the First World War. But the Demons kept the Swans down to nine goals, a once unthinkable achievement and I suspect that we will soon see the silver lining to all of this. It might not be as dramatic as the rise to the top experienced by the Swans when their style was derided by Demetriou but I can see a continuation of the process to the point where one day a Melbourne side will strangle the life out of a good team with the dour, defensive style being introduced at present. And then, with the introduction of young, talented players like Christian Salem and a bit of height and strength up forward and down back, the ugly demon ducklings will soon be giving others hell. THE GAME Adelaide v Melbourne v at Adelaide Oval Saturday 3 May, 2014 at 4.40 pm HEAD TO HEAD Overall Adelaide 21 wins Melbourne 11 wins At Adelaide Oval Adelaide 0 wins Melbourne 0 wins Past five years Adelaide 4 wins Melbourne 1 wins The Coaches Sanderson 0 wins Roos 0 wins MEDIA TV - Fox Footy Channel @ 4.30pm (live) RADIO - Triple M SEN ABC ABC Grandstand THE BETTING Adelaide - $1.07 Melbourne to win - $9.00 THE LAST TIME THEY MET Adelaide 18.12.120 defeated Melbourne 7.10.52 Round 22, 2013 at AAMI Stadium Scott Thompson starred against his former club in a one team race from start to end that was a game best remembered for boring the living suitcases out of anyone who watched it. THE TEAMS Adelaide Crows B: Sam Shaw, Daniel Talia, Matthew Jaensch HB: Brodie Smith, Kyle Hartigan, Luke Brown C: Sam Kerridge, Patrick Dangerfield, David Mackay HF: Eddie Betts, James Podsiadly, Jared Petrenko F: Tom Lynch, Josh Jenkins, Matthew Wright FOLL: Sam Jacobs, Scott Thompson, Rory Sloane I/C: Brent Reilly, Mitch Grigg, Rory Laird, Matt Crouch EMG: Brodie Martin, Andy Otten, Ben Rutten No Change Melbourne B: Tom McDonald, Lynden Dunn, Alex Georgiou HB: Jack Grimes, James Frawley, Dean Terlich C: Dom Tyson, Bernie Vince, Jack Watts HF: Rohan Bail, Cameron Pedersen, Matt Jones F: Jack Viney, Chris Dawes, Jeremy Howe FOLL: Mark Jamar, Daniel Cross, Nathan Jones I/C: Christian Salem, Neville Jetta, Jay Kennedy-Harris, Shannon Byrnes EMG: Mitchell Clisby, Max Gawn, Aidan Riley No Change Preview It almost seems forever since a Melbourne team ventured across the South Australian border into Adelaide and returned home unscathed. In fact, it's been so long that I can't even recall a match preview of a Demons' game played over there that doesn't include a mention of the curse of the city of churches or the fact that it was way back in 2001 that Andrew Leoncelli accepted a David Schwartz knock on and kicked a last gasp goal to beat the Crows at Adelaide's Football Park. So there you go ... it's been mentioned but the ground more lately known as AAMI Stadium is no longer in commission as an AFL venue and this week's game is taking place at the Adelaide Oval and the home side has never beaten Melbourne there so let's just forget this 17 defeats in a row thing and concentrate on the game at hand. Young Adelaide star Patrick Dangerfield was asked earlier in the week why his team had made such a dramatic improvement after a poor start when it lost the opening three games of the season. His response was that the team was now sticking to the game plan and executing the plan better. He might also have added that they've also played much weaker opposition over the last these weeks than during the period in which they were losing but his point still holds good. It's all about staying the course. If there's one thing that we can expect from Melbourne coach Paul Roos it is that the style of game and the effort demanded of his players will remain constant in this phase of development. In the short term this means that supporters need to lower their expectations - there will be the odd win here or there (perhaps even a surprise), some fighting losses and the really tough days at the office when the team gets thrashed. We've seen it all already this year and there will be more but the course has been set and it's not likely that we'll see a departure for the sake of producing a high scoring quarter of pretty football here or there as you will see from some coaches. This is why it was so important for Melbourne to import the likes of Vince, Cross, Tyson, Georgiou and co who provide the extra depth and steel the club lacked in recent years. They are among the players expected to lift yet another notch if the team is to remain competitive against the surging Crows in front of their home crowd as they strive to emulate the top of the ladder local foe for home state popularity. Melbourne needs to get more drive from its ruck division. Mark Jamar will relish the fact that he now has a run under his belt but he needs to hit his onball brigade more often in the ruck duels and the team can't afford a repeat of Scott Thompson's midfield dominance from their last outing. It won't be an easy task keeping up with the Crows on their home turf but if the Demons stay the course, it could be an interesting evening. I think that in the end, Adelaide will have too much class and experience and therefore give ammunition for those who promote the curse of the city of churches but one day soon, all that talk will come to an end and, when the day comes, Melbourne will give them hell. But not this time ... Adelaide by 25 points.

i'm wondering why autocol can't keep on-topic. this is a thread about christian salem fcs

Why on earth does it "pain you to say it"? Shouldn't we actually be happy that a player, no matter how maligned, has shown signs of improvement??

It would be nice if some of the threads weren't filled with the constant ramblings of the five or six blokes who spend their whole lives here. I would visit more often if I was more confident of reading about football. Sometimes I open a thread, read two or three posts, skip four or five, think "screw it, even my downtime is worth more than this" and head off to reddit, a website filled with 18-24 year olds... The AFL subreddit has a fair bit more quality football discussion than this joint, most of the time, and the tone of the posts is a lot less childish. Make of that what you will.

No one deserved a promotion more than someone deserved to be dropped. .....that says plenty about our depth at the minute .

I actually prefer this approach - what we have seen in recent years is players being dropped for poor form, without anybody really being in better form below. This way, Roos has picked his 22 and is backing them until someone else turns out to be playing better. Rather than Casey players waiting until they are called up due to the failures of others, they are now being required to lift their own standards and demand to be included. That can only be a good thing.

Why not entertain hopes of a comeback.stranger thing have happened.

Yes but don't get your hopes up.

Not everyone thought that. I never rated any of those three. And plenty of others didn't rate them either. Not everyone gets excited by the numbers game. It's how you win and what you do with your possessions. I've already seen in just over a quarter of footy that Salem has far more potential than those three. In just over a quarter of footy, I have witnessed a coolness and belief in ability, a precise left foot, sound decision making, an intent and hardness around the footy, and most importantly in my eyes - a desire to perform sacrificial acts of desperation for the team. Salem possesses far more many football specific attributes than any of those three. And I've seen it in a quarter of footy. This isn't about talking a player up. It's just the damn truth.

To be honest, we have been so bad for the last 7-8 years, that having a laugh has been a great distraction.We do discuss footy but it is just so bloody hard when you are crap and the best thing we can say is we will get pick 1 next year. We know that doesn't cure all our problems. Don't blame BBO for the problems of the club, you know he has nothing to do with them. PS. I am guilty of posting crap too, but I promise to stop as soon as we make a GF.

There's only one Robbo and his christian name is Russell and he comes from Tassie !

As someone who suffers from depression on and off, I can assure you that looking well and having a great time don't mean a whole lot long term. Or at least in my experience. Having said that, it's great to see that Mitch has taken the time to come out and made the call that he's ready. Small steps. You never get cured, you just learn to live with the predisposition and hopefully Mitchy is well on the way.

Whats fairy land I have just named two players playing at a flag contender who are not as you say "jumping at the chance to resign" that isn't fantasy land that is fact. Crows lost Bok, Davis & Tippett in 3 succesive years & big Tex is yet to jump at signing the dotted line, so IMO it is self pity "why is it only us these things happen to us"

The only major black eye for retaining players was Junior McDonald. That was self-defeating list management and it was also poorly managed. As for the rest - these players get inflated because of the sorry state of our list. Frawley would be a huge loss but hardly insurmountable.

The Cook one is hilarious.

Never saw any of those comparisons being made either I have to say. Lucas Cook to Jonno Brown is a comparison you might hear from a ranting individual on a street corner with a bible tucked under his arm, but nowhere else.

None of those comparisons were ever made??

There is a lot of Luke Hodge in Christian Salem. It's not surprising to hear that he has tried to emulate Hodge's style. Very, very similar kicking style.

The "ignore" function is your friend.

I don't want to do this.. Ah who am I kidding. I totally want to do it. By Round 6: But this is even better I think.. So having him leave would have been a culture killer. Having him stay is a culture killer. Literally [censored] either way. Deadset, my 5 year old nephew is less up and down.

Notice JW is in. Where are "he won't pay " people from a few days back? Silence is golden I guess

Considering the results of the previous comparisons... I see similarities between Salem and a young Brent Grgic only a little softer.

No defending Neeld and his abilities at all but the coach is the coach and for a mature aged, professional footballer who considered himself a leader of the club ,well his leadership skills failed him miserably.

Moloney... Lol Sylvia... Lol Cancerous, self-interested and arrogant. That's what comes to mind, regardless of their 'service' to the club. (They were highly paid players, I'll be sick if someone says they were great 'servants').

In fairness - the comparison was made on the predraft -2 minutes highlight package. This is the highlight reel of these juniors and they all look pretty good. Have you ever seen a highlight package of a footballer going into the draft that you don't like ? I don't think anyone compared to him Pav or Brown once he played a season at Casey.

Interesting though to read that he was at training today and by all accounts appeared in good spirits.IF he has made a good physical recovery with a prolonged rest from training and is feeling better in the head, who can say for sure that he won't get bitten by the bug and decide before list closures in ?October that he wants to have another go. I am sure he would be welcomed back by most here.

Strewth, how did I miss that? I was down at training this morning, actually that is me in the background of one of the photos, the guy at the back wearing a bike helmet. Obviously focussing too much on Garland. He took part in everything and looks to be moving well. He did a couple of drills where he and T Mac had to jostle with Chip and Dawes as balls were kicked high to them. Garland looked very good in that drill. Is he ready though after so much time out? Spencer walked a few laps and disappeared. Fitzy, Pedo, Max and Jamar did a lot of ruck drills. Max played well in the magoos but Jamar went OK last week, so could we afford to take Max in as well? The others were split into 2 sides and were doing a lot of drills where the ball is moved constantly by foot to leading players who must get clear of there opponent to get a mark. This is what we would like to see more of on game day, players moving and presenting all over the field ahead of the ball carrier. Mitchie was training well and Riley was in everything, he could be a chance. Tapscott and Blease both look like can play, if only they would! For a change just about everyone was involved in the drills, there were no groups doing laps etc. Had to leave early unfortunately.

And I will go on because of your original point regarding retaining players - we have not been diabolical as you claim to be a fact . You are correct that we have not handled some retirements particularly well but I think this has been more about how we have done it rather than whether the players still had football life in them (Jnr's retirement is widely debated on here - I am in the "he should have retired camp") . Our trading out of players has been ok - none have really come back to bite us. Our retention has been ok. What we have had is our players dragging out contract negotiations until the bitter end. With free agency this will become more and more common. Sorry - but when someone uses the word "fact" I get antsy. I expect a fact to be exactly that - a fact! What you have given us are opinions and your opinions are highly debatable.

I have supported Watts and have been constantly saying that you need to give tall KP footballers time to develop. I constantly said lets talk about him when he is 23. My problem is he is now 23 and what I am not seeing is any real improvement in the area of making a contest. Young KP are all gangly and no idea where to run and how to fly for the ball and impose themselves. This develops over time. I havent seen the development in imposing himself on a contest - that doesn't necessarily mean crashing packs - it means being hard at the ball even if it is a lose ball outside. My quandary is how long do I have to wait ?

So you're a Melbourne supporter and you're trying to convert other Melbourne supporters into Collingwood ones? That's just what the club needs! Great initiative.

Very few here live in fairyland. But a large number live in the opposite of it and see disaster and doom in every little thing that happens, overreacting to the pain of recent years.

reality hits the fans. adelaide boy=minus 1 on carltons list=minus 2 barracks for stkilda=minus 3. wears private schoolboy clobber=minus 4. hasnt started shaving yet=minus 5. this man has nothing going for him.

Pretty good.....though not Kosher. Just as well Joe G isn't still in charge :-)

I don't feel like I can't express my own opinion. I simply can't be bothered reading 14 pages of utter tosh just to find a single piece of enlightening information about the Dees. I think this forum is fairly poorly moderated.

In form walker? Are you kidding? Has had a knee reco and has had one game back in the dewkickers. He's hardly 'in form'...

I'd be happy for him not to be a contested player (IMO he never will be) but what I can't abide is his pathetic running. He needs to run his guts out, get off the ground for a rest, get on and run his guts out and repeat. We all want to see effort. That doesn't necessarily mean smashing packs.

I remember Barry Hall and Cam Mooney being asked by Gerard Whateley about how long it took them to feel comfortable as AFL footballers. They both said 6 years. Both played key position, as Watts was drafted to be, and both had some pretty reasonable (and consistent) coaches guiding them through. Watts is in his sixth year, but has had no where near the stability and consistency in coaching, instruction or message that either of those two had. It's all well and good to blame Watt's, but he is not the only player of ours who hasn't reached the potential we thought they would, but unfortunately for him, he's the highest profile. Our former recruiters may have a bit to answer for, but multiple failed coaching appointments, dysfunctional football department and poor development can't be ignored just because it's easier to blame individual players for their lack of development. I suspect (hope) that for the first time since we drafted Jack we finally have a set up that is capable of extracting the best out of it's players.

Not expecting anything to particularly change. Maybe a few chairs shuffled on the deck, thats about it. GM has been there for years. Been involved with much. Hes got a better possi in the carpark and a pay rise. Nothing wholesale to happen

Whilst I don't usually agree with threads devoted to laughing at a player's misfortune, I am quite satisfied that people are now generally cottoning on to Naitanui being an overhyped, overrated, lumbering one-trick pony. I would not want him at this club, and I am fully aware of where Melbourne is at and what Naitanui is capable of.

Jack Watts has played 4 and a bit seasons of footy not 6 season as some assert. In his first year (2009) he played 3 games while still at school. And in the four seasons (or 88 games) since, his team won just 18 games, while turning over 3+ coaches as the club, coaching staff and players struggled. http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/J/Jack_Watts.html During this time he's played back, forward, wing, middle... been the whipping boy, saviour, etc... for a club with no idea and angry restless fans tired of mediocracy. That he re-signed last year was repayment of any debt he owed us, and from then on he like any developing player will have good and lean patches until he matures and gains confidence in his role and place in the team. I think we should get behind him and support him rather than contesting as to whom can bag him best or loudest. He'll come good, or not. But deserves our support and compassion

No....hopefully we will string together a run of victories in the second part of the season and not be in the hunt for any. That would be a far far better outcome than for us to get (yet more) priority picks. It would show that we are going places.

Doesn't every thread?

The flat track bully argument has merit, particularly if you look at 2011, the year which everybody crows about in terms of Brownlow votes (19 votes). He had 5 best-on-ground games - 4 of them were against teams lower than us on the ladder, and the 5th was against Richmond, who finished one spot above us. Beyond this, he polled in just 3 more games - 2 of them against bottom-side Gold Coast. I was never a Moloney hater, but I lost any respect I had for him with the karma jibe at Neeld.

no we want good players not selfish flat track bullies....

Was a good decision.

It was done when he lost his power base at Melbourne. One of Neeld's few positives. I give cred there.