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Good Morning all. A late training report from yesterday. As I lunched with Biffen immediately after training, the rest of the day faded into a haze that did not allow for any intellectual stress. I went and watched Clarke, Hogan, Fitzy and Matt Jones train away from the group. They did a lot of twinkle toes type work to start. Short sharp paces and side steps using low obstacles. They all followed this with a series of 300 metre (I think) runs. They all looked quite free in their movements. I made that comment to Fitzy and he said everyone was going well but being careful. Dawes was in the main group at that time and I asked one of the trainers (not sure who) if he was doing full training. He said not full training but he was getting close. Some individual observations. Jack Viney looks really ripped but did not train. He left early and I'm guessing, headed for the gym. Nathan Jones looks superfit and every time time I looked at him was going flat out. Salem did not appear to be doing full training but is well built and interacted very confidently with all the players. Jack Watts does everything well but does not appear as intense as others. Maybe that is just his nature. Trengove ran well in the drills I saw. I am not convinced he is slow. Dawes seems a bit rusty with his shots on goal but moving freely and handling the wet ball well. He looks big and fit. Cross. I had read that he is a keen trainer and he certainly demonstrated that. He goes full tilt and was very sure in his ball skills. This was the first time I have seen him and he will be a real plus to our midfield. WILL POST MORE LATER THIS ARVO.

I'm going to big note myself here. BUT I lay claim to having the youngest ever Demons member in our family. In the history of the club. The club kind of confirmed it too. For many years, I've been signing up the kids of my mates to the MFC. Some vaguely respect it, some hate it - including the father of my goddaughter who sold her membership on eBay for 20 bucks ( ... someone actually bought it too, which we both found a bit weird). So when my wife and I had a kid he was always destined to become a Demon. As many of you know, at the 20 week mark in a pregnancy, you can find out the sex of the fetus. And so we did. A boy. Within the week I had signed up the little fetus to be a fully fledged member of the club. I signed him up in about December 2012, Henry was born on 29 April 2013. When I did, the lady in the membership department quite appropriately asked me the date of birth of the kid. I responded 29 April. She then asked "year?", to which I responded "next year". She then exclaimed, "he's not even born yet!" I said "yep, that's right - but he will be. And we need the members", to which she responded, "yep, you're right there". And so Henry became a member of the Dees. At about minus 5 months old. It also served me well in another respect. My wife and I agreed on the name Henry, but not the middle name. Some months later, when my wife was putting forward various middle name options, I produced the membership card and said "too late. It's Henry Felix". And so it was. Timely thread actually - one of my mates just had a little boy, and I've got to sign him up - the Baby Dees package is an absolute bargain. Hopefully some of these kids will stick with the club over life's journey.

Training report continued ... Bernie Vince looked good in everything he did. Watching him and Cross and Jones today made me think that at least we will no longer be embarrassed in the midfield. Tom McDonald was doing some kicking drills right in front of me. His build and body shape is impressive but I hope Frawley is available to pick up the monster forwards. Jake Spencer was doing a lot of contested marking drills with Greg Stafford. He was reasonably sure handed with the wet ball. Gawn and Jamar then competed in some similar drills. Gawn was too strong for Jamar and able to push him off. In fact Jamar looked a bit lighter to me. On my brief observations today I reckon he is third in the pecking order.

Not to wish to tarnish his many great deeds, but that was not a given. He may have or he may not have, that is the reality. He was a Dees great and should be remembered that way.

Hi all. Just wondering how many of you have been to any training sessions and watched Mitch train, both before and after Christmas? I have been to heaps of sessions, before his hamstring injury and after it. I will say again, it was a hamstring injury, not his foot and not his knee! Having spoken to a few mates who work at the club, when at a training session, they are easing him into it and they are confident he will be ready for the start of the year. He could be doing more but they want to be cautious. Yes he and Dawes have missed the main drills, but if you went to training and saw the running they are origins, you would not all be so worried. Yes they are expensive recruits and we want them to play, but to start saying he may retire and be so negative is just over the top. ATM Dawes running and body are looking magnificent and watching Mitch do his stride throughs yesterday, I would be very surprised if he is not back doing drills next week.

Quite frankly im only going to believe what I see. When Clarke , Dawes for that matter run out and string together games, and playing to their ability then and only then will I be confident. To date they are very expensive recruits. I want Mitch fit and playing like everyone but ill reserve any euphoria til it happens.

I didn't know whether to place this here or in the cricket thread on other sports but given that "running off at the mouth" is a common occurrence in this forum (we're all guilty of it from time to time ) I thought this gem from Martin Flanagan deserved to be put right here. Running off at the mouth a fool's game Love this one about Brett Lee - "Lee is like a pit bull with hair gel". And this sums up not only the Morgan/Lee incident but also what makes our game and sport at the highest level so enticing:

The capacity for people on here to worry about injuries, "rehab", and other things out of their control is mind-boggling. "Rehab" is the most overused word on training threads. in "rehab", out of "rehab", and sometimes it's all in one miraculous day. Players are "managed". Their loads are controlled. Some are/have been injured, others are managing niggles, and for some it's about workload. Just relax.

This coming Monday will be a holiday for most of Australia but not our footballers. The melbournefc.com.au website states that our TRAINING TIMES for next week are: I think that last bolded sentence is worth noting because many are still under the impression that if a player is not out there on the track during the hours of open training then he's injured and not doing anything much to get fit for what lies ahead and, if enough of them aren't out there, the sky's falling in. However, in all likelihood, that's not the case at all.At the only Demons training I attended this year (at Casey Fields in midweek last week), the session took place in 40 degree heat and barely lasted an hour. As the players were coming off I quipped something to Cam Pedersen about them "knocking off for the day" but he said this wasn't the case and that the group was off to AAMI Park and would be working there till 4pm. I also discovered that a very small group of players, part of what's called the "rehab" group were already at AAMI doing their modified programmes. These days pre-season training is far more scientifically based than in the good old days when players would roll up (often a tad overweight) at some time in late February for a season that would begin in mid April. There are specific programmes tailor made for each individual player with the aim of having them in best condition for the season ahead. So we don't necessarily need to be concerned if we don't see for example, a Mitch Clark or a Mark Jamar joining in with the rest of the group on Australia Day. It doesn't mean that it's the end of the world or that they're on holiday like the rest of us. The likelihood is that they will be doing their allotted work behind the scenes in the gym or the pool or in some lecture room inside one of the best sporting faculties in the country in closed sessions only metres away from Gosch's Paddock. I wish I could join those fans who venture out there on Australia Day but I'll be up in Queensland doing something important (probably near to or in a swimming pool). I would still appreciate your reports.

The Mad Monday guys rate Billy very highly father/son prospects.

Actually, Joe Gutnick did that when he was President and Gabriel Szondy tried it for a while as well. Opening the doors for the members and supporters is a positive initiative but it's not enough when the team keeps getting flogged. Our core business is to produce a winning football team and good administration and governance will help us get there but making nice to members is overrated if you don't get the other things right.

I asked a player last night about the forward line situation and he joked that Nev Jetta will be our FF the way it's going. Seriously he than went on to say that Clark is in the best shape for Round 1 out of all of them. He'll be fine, he's apparently a very astute trainer outside of scheduled trainings, and will be tip top. Good news.

i know what wyl means maybe "empower" was the wrong word jim made a point (until his health restricted him) of involving and being involved with members he would often be seen in the outer with the fans and engaging the "ordinary" people i'm sure if he hadn't had his problems we would have seen a lot more of jim mixing with the memberst he wasn't a president who locked himself away in boardrooms just saying

I received an email today from a usually reliable source saying that one should never trust emails from usually reliable sources.

I'll start by saying I'm a massive JKH fan and have been for a couple of years. He is a great trainer and I believe his work ethic will turn him into a very good player. He trained well today but I'm still of the opinion that he will struggle to make the round 1 team under Roos. He is a chance but Roos likes to give his first year players a good grounding and we as a club need this more than any other team. We put all our hopes into young kids which is a bit unfair. No Garland today. In slippery conditions I was really impressed with Hunt. He marked everything coming his way using his hands. Some from hard kicks going over his head. He won't play for Melbourne this year but he looks very talented and he can really run. We are going to have lots of competition for the mids this year. Vince, Tyson, Cross and Michie will all play Round 1 IMO from today's training. Someone said earlier Watts was fumbly. My friends and I disagree. In the congested work he was eye catching with his pace and agility. He looked like he is ready to break the lines and if he does, his kicking is second to none. Salem did most of the work and looks good. If he can get 5 to 10 games it will be a bonus. It was nice to see Spencer, Jamar and Gawn joining in. They all look massive. Pedersen has lost a bit of weight around his hips and trained very well. He looked a little quicker and made lots of tackles. Grimes and Jones both train well. I'd like to see co-captains. Frawley looks awesome. I said this a couple of weeks ago. We had Grimes, Terlich, Clisby, Nicholson, Strauss, Hunt all Jetta all training as small backs. I thought Blease trained really well in the conditions and used his pace and agility in the congested work. There were at times some ordinary kicks in the full field drill but it was good to see them running in numbers the whole field. Kent did the whole session and he looks all class. I'd like to see him go another step this year. Roosy was in the middle directing everything. I'd like to see 7+ wins this year and believe we will.

Mitch Clark discounting rumors on his famous foot on Twitter Will be running out with the boys can't wait Mitch Clark ‏@MitchClark11 1h Apparently some rumours going around that my foot is no good. Couldn't be further from the truth and I can't wait to run out with the boys

So apart from the fact that Col came a close second in the Bluey last year, also won the Ron Barassi Jnr leadership award, was voted into the leadership group last year by his peers and is likely to be so again this year, tell me who were our 10 more important players in 2013?

Really? Ok, Bluey results aren't everything but second after Jones last year is a fair indication of his importance to the team Make no mistake Col Garland is well within the top 10 at the MFC

Hopefully Garland's OK and able to play from the beginning of the season or not long after it starts. If this had happened at the beginning of last year we'd be contemplating Sellar, Pederson, Gillies, Davis or Watts as his replacement. I'm glad we're a year on.

King may well be arrested if the toigs play in Qld this year. Known associate.

Someone in one of the training said he was told by a player that Clark's foot is fine and that he'd been having hamstring issues as a consequence of his lack of conditioning. Seems plausible to me; hope that's all it is.

At training today in the wet. Firstly to allay the fears of many: Hogan was running laps, in no discomfort. Jamar joined in some of the contest work. Dawes was involved in all contest work. Gawn was with the rehab group for most of the session and appears on track. Viney was walking laps and appeared to be limited in his activities. Kent was involved in all contest work. Observations: I have an elderly man crush (I AM married ) on Toumpas, Tyson, Kennedy-Harris, Kent and Jones. They consistently found their targets despite the often driving rain and give great cause for optimism for our midfield. Tapscott is even more massive in the upper body than you'll remember him from last year. McDonald, if anything, is less developed in the upper body, looking almost like Howe in build. Watts consistently fumbled the ball in the wet, but atoned with the disposal almost laser-like in accuracy. Dawes looks a million dollars and was very serious in all his movements. Salem and Toumpas are the same person in skill level and disposal. Unlike observations from attendees at other training sessions, I found N.Jones to be extremely vocal and a leader, obviously signalling his intentions to push for the major leadership of the team. Finally, and what fills me with most excitement, is a feature of the training drills where players are running the full length of the field in anticipation of receiving the ball or creating a shepherd, unlike in previous years where players would virtually stop to admire their work once a kick or handball was completed.

Viv will be a huge get for MFC. I followed him at Peel and he was double teamed almost all the games he played in the Wafl. Came over and watched the one game he had against Geelong. He was only told at 10 am that he was playing and was easily their better player in the second half (biased but close to truth). He is an excellent ball player who kicks to the jumper, has absolutely no other thought than for the team and I am tipping a 22 game player this year. Freo did not want to let him go.

I think some of our recruiting under Neeld was based on getting a spread in age topping up the mid to late 20's and I think it was a big mistake. The mistake to me was that it seemed like age first, ability second or not at all. I like how we approached it this year in picking up a bunch of good kids and balancing the list with some quality early 20's (Tyson, Michie) to right the past mistakes and real quality at the older end in Vince and Cross. A feel for the player and the game will always be a recruiters best asset.

I agree with most of what you say here RTG. However, I'm also in agreement with JVF. We can cover the loss of a defender far easier than the loss of a midfielder or forward. We have a number of guys who can play back with reasonable competence. Not so elswhere.

thank you Stuie. It all makes sense now.

US Cycling Athlete, Baker, Accepts Sanction for Anti-Doping Rule Violation So this guy gets 2 years just for not filing some paperwork - if the Bombers get nothing ...

Viney Fan, I'm loathe to make emphatic statements. And with that I'm now going to make one. Garland is vital to us. So often last year he managed to marshall the defence to stop an even greater flogging. Remember we didnt have a midfield per se. I have him in my top 5 players in terms of importance....easily.

That many?!!!

really actually I used to be a safety officer on sites, & first aid officer, & eventually a shop steward as well along the journey. the union was impressed and after a couple of years tried to set me up into a career in the union, & further. even arranging me into a position during the 90's recession when there was no work. I never took that position. and I was liked & disliked by all sides. even had retail business people thanking me, for helping them out, against the companies who were screwing them. I got out of it after that site, as I decided then & there I didn't like the pressure of the politics, as the stewards are the meat in the sandwich, between the builder, the site owners, the Unions, & the workers themselves. All were playing there own games, against one-another. The builder, using the unions actions, to charge the site owner for more money in contract adjustments. and thru the courts. the stewards to get safer conditions, & some to get more overtime for the workers. some were more militant & played the game. I played it straight & honest. the builder & centre-mangement screwed the smaller retailers for extra money, & held them to ransom, 'time wise' in favour of the 'Majors' (tenants). my experience from these, & from life experiences, is that nearly all people want more & more, & IMO the most greedy are the tall poppies, who Squeak the loudest, & the longest. & want more pay, margins, & less taxes & more fringe benefits, free or otherwise, with these benefits claimable on their tax as well. so no, I don't have the impression that all problems are unions. But to me all problems stem from greed, & those who want the biggest slice of pie. mostly the tall poppies. its only entering globalisation that has exposed us all to the 3rd world labour markets, via greedy people who were never content with their margins at home. the stockmarkets, always wanting more margin & profits each & every year, so the boards can have more profits for themselves. the winners are the 3rd world countries, & the losers are the western manufacturers, farmers, & workers. & our local small businesses, flailing under attack from major manufacturing plants overseas, originally setup with western money. & now the engineering knowledge, skills & factories have all been taken over by Asian wealth. this is like a cancer, attacking the very body that gave it life in the first place. its going to kill itself. so if i'm funny, you must be deluded.

Forgive me if this has been mentioned but I just noticed that Viv Mitchie scored 8.01 in his agility test for the draft camp in the year he was drafted by Fremantle, ranking him 2nd for that year and 18th over the past 10 years. This probably makes him the most agile player on our list.

Look, I am happy to see people trying to bring a SABR-like focus on AFL analysis, but Baseball has such defined roles that this is much easier to do. When it comes to Wins-Above-Replacement (player), the roles are comparable ie. a closer to another closer, slugger to another slugger... With the AFL the lines of demarcation for player roles are blurry, and to say that removing one player for another because they both play 'midfield' can bring a certain probability of wins increasing is a bit rich... Love data, but keeping it team based is probably best for its analysis in our game.

Noticed this tweet and I wonder if some interesting developments will all co-incide at the same time next month? auskadi‏@auskadi Vlad gone in February according to SEN this morning. #DemetriGate

Flanagan is a lover of sport. He sees the magnificence of fearless and determined commitment regardless of the game, the team or the player. I wish he would write a book about the season he spent at the Demons as it would give us a real understanding of the (often futile) efforts made by those that were truly committed and secure them the appreciation they deserve. There is no better writer on football than him.

Sure. But Jim took it further. He had the "it" factor. If he had not become ill i am still certain Jim would have presided over success.

Can we just say he tried to improve the club and did his best.

Correct Jim opened the doors to the members for the first time. Made the supporter feel part of the "club" rather than just a match day supporter.

I'll definitely be popping past, some of us have to work Australia Day.

This thread is named after a snake, isn't it? And, if so, should there be any discussion allowed on here about slimy reptiles?

The man has an insatiable appetite DC. I was worn out just watching him work the room(s). The team could learn a lot from BBOs efficiency.

At least you're keeping the lid on it.

Was such a dumb rumor, anyone with a brain knew he did a slight hammy over Christmas and it had nothing to do with his foot. A few people in this thread look like idiots now.

Mitch Clark stresses me out.

"minor operation" - shaving a bone spur - every opportunity of being available round one. panic not necessary. Col played almost every game last couple of years and will have a good fitness base.

jordie mac shifty as a copper head on steriods

...all of demonland breaths a sigh of relief.

Well that's disappointing for Michie if this is in fact what he's been told. To say there's no chance of him playing round 1 when we're 7 weeks out must be depressing. What if he tears it up in the NAB and practice games? Just doesn't add up.

Spoke to a current player today , he said Mitchie will start at Casey. New players to come in to the team he thinks are : Cross - absolutely flying Vince - really good Tyson - doing well Hogan - gun Clark - foot is fine, hamstrings struggling because of extended lay off.

Good post. I feel the same. I am 60 and have supported them all my life. My wife and kids the same. Never seen them win a flag. Copped [censored] from other clubs fans all my life but never strayed. I started the first supporters club magazine, called Demon's World. I started a supporters group called the Premier's Club. I have been a Director of the club. I have been Team Manager of the club. I brought in a new President, Wayne Reid. I am a Foundation member. I am a sponsor. I enjoy Demonland. I have given all my hope and soul to this club. I don't want anything but success for the club. I have watched Boards fight each other. I was even part of one big fight. I nearly cried at the merger meeting when I saw the way people treated the late Tiger Ridley, a true Demon great. I have seen the club tear itself apart. This year I watched as Jim passed away, not long after two other Demon greats in Sean Wight and Stewart Spencer. I watched a sponsor stuff us up. I watched the Jurrah situation. I watched as our Coach was falsely called a racist. I watched the team get smashed week after week. I watched the media go to town on us and they still are. It just seems so unfair. Other teams cheat and win Premierships. We are the only team to win a game that losing would have given us a priority pick and we did it twice. When we did get a pick the kid spent a year lying to us and his dying President before the AFL took him away from us. There is so much more i could go on about. We seem to spend all of our time worrying about our club. It nearly makes you want to cry and give up. However that is just not acceptable as I have my children and grandchildren who I want to one day enjoy success that I have been denied. Stop the fighting amongst each other and all get behind the club. If we lose draft picks I want this club to fight all the way and I mean all the way. We owe it to those who came before and those who will come after. I don't give a rat's arse what we have to do to prevail in this situation, I just want it done. If we have to bring in every other club or destroy Demetriou or hurt the AFL I don't give a sh-t anymore. I have had enough. Yes we may have been naughty but no different to many other clubs yet we alone once again are copping it. Our brand is being trashed and our future hampered and in fact put at real risk. We have 40 or so players who want to win for us and we need to support them. I don't care how dirty we need to be just do it. We are seen as a weak club. NO BLOODY MORE. If we lose draft picks, we should hit the Courts, rally at the AFL and show the rest of the clubs that we are here to stay. Sorry for the rant, I have just had a gutful.