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I really think with Roos on board Demonland is in for a breakout year.... It's exactly the type of internet forum that will thrive under him...

I'm of the view, (and some may say this is obvious) that it's much easier to develop a player's inside game than to develop skills such as kicking, marking and decision making. Salem has elite kicking, marking and decision making and it's known that he is not afraid of putting his head over the ball when it's his turn, yet he's most damaging as an outside player. With Roos and Stone at the helm, one of the things that I'm going to enjoy watching is how they improve the inside work and combative work of our mids. Especially players such as Watts and Toumpas, who we know are mostly give-to players at present. Listening to Salem talk in his interview gives a great insight into the kind of attitude he has and how much he'll want to work on those areas of his game. The Hawks strategy of drafting players who displayed both inside and outside strengths has done wonders for their team. Salem is exactly that kind of player. Once his body is a bit bigger and he learns how to use his body in congested situations he could be in the same mould as Jordan Lewis/Luke Hodge etc. Of course, he could also become another Grigg or a Houli. From my speculative judgement, I think he has the capacity to be a ripper. Salem, Sheed or Scharenberg for me. Freeman is a bit too risky.

The OP raises some interesting issues worth discussing and debating and hopefully, posters can rise above the groupthinking dislike of Mark Neeld spurred in the main by his epic failure as a coach at the Melbourne Football Club. To judge the decisions made by Neeld and the football department of the time you need to consider the condition of the team and the list when Neeld's tenure began. He inherited a team that was inconsistent, described by their opponents as "bruise-free" and contained a group that included some disgruntled older players whose attitude to the pre season obligations was said to be poor. Neeld opted to share the responsibility of captaincy between two young players and, in hindsight, the weight of their responsibility was too great. I'm not sure that even Roos would have dealt with the leadership issues much better than Neeld although most certainly, his experience and his football acumen would have given him the scope to deal better with the issues that were dished up to Neeld in those 1½ years. This shouldn't be considered as either a Neeld bashing exercise or an attack on Paul Roos. Roos, PJ, Bartlett and co are all still going through their "honeymoon" period and we're trusting them to make the right decisions. Some of those decisions are being made easier by the recruiting and list culling that necessarily took place in the past two years. We were in a dark place as a club as a result of 186. Neeld and Craig were on a hiding to nothing when they came in and the task proved too much for them. We're still in for some pain and I believe the worst is behind us but we would be foolish to believe that simply because of the changes made at the top, life for the club is going to be a bed of roses from now on and that no mistakes are going to be made in the future.

Interestingly - If you had a blueprint of what Bailey identified as wrong with our club/playing list/culture and what he wanted to implement as opposed to what Neeld identified as problematic with our club and what he wanted to do and how he wanted to change things, I would say Neeld was streets ahead in indentifying where were failing. As we have painfully found out, knowing what the problems are and having the skillset to fix the problems are two entirely different things.

Salem comparisons to Strauss are ridiculous. I understand many poster on here are "once bitten, twice shy" about the idea of drafting for elite foot skills. Strauss didn't exactly work out as planned. But to say that Salem will turn out like Strauss just because he has a great left foot is flawed logic. As I've said before, I know someone who played with both Salem and Freeman at the Dragons this year. I can confirm Salem's foot skills are exquisite. I can also confirm that he has no problem winning his own hardball. Also when he tackles, he tackles to HURT. That doesn't sound like James Strauss to me.

I'm surprises that nobody has addressed the big question of the draft! Will the Demonland server stand up on the big stage? When the pressure is on to preform, when the heat is on, when it faces its biggest test of the year? Imagine the distress and pain a simple driver error could cause. A simple database error and the health of so may Demon faithful would be effected. Let's hope Demonland have a backup plan, a plan B, let's hope they have thought outside the square and are overseen by good governance with good systems. Let's hope they understand that the happiness of literally 1000's of people rest in their hands. Good luck Demonland and thanks for your efforts in providing a great draft and trade period so far. And let's hope we do find a friend for Jesse.

It did for the short sighted.

I think there was a statement in making Trengove and Grimes captains - that the older players had failed the club in leadership, onfield performance and setting any reasonable standard for the youth of the club to follow. Can anyone disagree with this ? The problem was that the jobs of Trengove and Grimes became even harder as some older players were exited and those who remained did not buy in. When Moloney was dumped from the leadership group by Bailey for his indiscretion he publicly went on record saying that he didnt need to be in the leadership group to be a leader of the club - admirable sentiments indeed. Contrast that to the reaction of the senior players when they were "dismissed" under Neeld. I supported many of the things that I could see Neeld trying to do - trying to change our putrid culture, acknowledging that our seniors had not performed, acknowledging that our fitness was not up to AFL standard. From where I sit Neeld only made one mistake - execution and in turn bringing all players and officials along with him. ( and that was a huge matzoh ball of a mistake)

I personally hope Jetta gets game,kicks ass and gets back on the list. That's just me-supporting guys who have done nothing bad by the club and have had a crack. His skills are good and his hands are very good. He is quick with the ball and can tackle. We have several talls so will need some little guys. Go Nev-take your shot.

i hope he is skipper one day just so we can call the players Salems Lot

Oh ffs, how much guff? It's going to take years to get to pick 9.

I think some on here have taken Taylor's words in the wrong context. I don't think he is saying he is confident of getting one particular targetted player at each selection, but rather that he has a group of players in the mix for each selection and that he will get one of that group, at each pick. Therefore I don't think you can draw the conclusion that we are picking someone from left field for each selection or who is thought not to be in the mix for that particular selection.

have it on reliable information it'll be someone who's there at 8 and not at 10!! true dinks !!

Changed some stuff last night. Hopeful rather than confident. Trying not to think about it to be honest (And yes - I intend on being about at the time)

Do you think any of us want to read you bag Mark Neeld again and again again?

*he's I worry for the future...

Gone to the Hawks THey will turn him into a superstar too The rich get richer

How long before a " We should have taken Freeman" thread pops up?

dunno....pictures dont lie

Yes, I'm having trouble too.

saw that girl arrested at Tullamarine the other day she had 2 kilograms of crack in her undies

Then I guess he was able to manage it well enough to help Collingwood win a flag. Dawes would be a better contested marker than Fitzpatrick. They are both shaded by Clark, and I believe Hogan, but it is Dawes' frame that I see as very fortunate to have next to The Franchise (Hogan) while he is in his first few years. And of Dawes and Fitzpatrick, one is far more proven than the other. I don't see it happening. I don't think Fitz can do what I would be asking Dawes to do.

Cant say I am too excited about Freeman based on footage I have seen Looks to have no poise or awareness. Speed wont make up for that. my dream is that Billings slips to pick 9.

If he's still in the mix at 40 I'll be amazed and if we pass on him I'll be very disappointed.

Good luck Nasher!!!

Hopefully Nasher is on standby.

We've definitely seen it, just not consistently over a long period.

…and neither of them know.

I get the impression Roos does not see the Captain's appointment as his highest priority. I think he is more interested in the overall culture and "collective" leadership. For what it is worth, I think he will go with Dawes as Captain (if he thinks they can keep him on the park), Grimes and Jones as joint VCs, and the rest of the leadership Group comprising Clark, Trengove, Frawley, Cross and Vince.

Yeah, nah. The co-captains was a cop-out because of anxiety about appointing a young captain. Just one would have been better. Maybe with two vice captains. But it is pretty daft to appoint two young guys with little or almost no experience of their role as a leader, and then split it so that neither they nor anyone else is quite sure who is responsible for what, and a constant negotiation and collaboraation effort has to be made. I rationalised it at the time, did my best to be positive, noting how both 'had great leadership qualities' but yeah, it was a dud decision.

TL;DR. He thinks the selection of the young co-captains was the right decision at the time. Bloody painful way of saying it though.

yep, should all 3 be available, i'd call out Scharenberg's name first, Salem's second and Freeman's third.

It goes without saying, posters here are all excellent judges of footballers.

Take all 3 and hope nobody notices.

Calm down. They are just saying that any test will be done once by AFL approved medicos and will be released to all clubs. Kids should not have to go through 18 different scans and nor should clubs waste money. The alternative would be Collingwood testing 25 players that we wouldn't afford and hoarding the information. There is little to complain about here.

gotta keep our standards up, eh Hoges! Yassir, don't let up on the vigilance front.. An uncle of mine worked with a fella who served in the First World War, in the desert in North Africa at one stage. Walking along chatting to another digger who'd been a dentist before joining up, my uncle's mate Albert was complaining of terrible tooth ache he'd been having. "Don't let the army dentists at you," advised the dentist, "wait till you get home; then get the whole lot out and get falsies like the rest of us." So Albert trudged on, and they walked through an old battle-field with skeletons poking up through the sand. One skull had a perfect set of teeth, and Albert remarked on this, and they stopped to admire them. "Do you reckon I could take out those teeth, and get them made up into a set for meself?" Albert asked the dentist. The dentist thought this might be possible, so they set to work with bayonets and prised all the teeth out of the skull, and put them in a tobacco tin, and then resumed their march. Albert forgot all about them. After the war was over, and Albert was back in peaceful Western Australia in a train going home to see his wife and two small children, his thoughts turned to the idea of wrapping his arms around his wife, who he hadn't seen for some years; and he thought about the children standing there too, and he hardly knew them and they'd be looking at him, and no doubt a bit unsure... and all he wanted was to get his arms round his wife. What to do? He pictured them all together on the platform, and all he could think of was his wife. As he thought about it, Albert hit upon the scheme of giving the children the presents he'd brought home for them, and while they were occupied opening them he could give his wife the hug he'd been dreaming of. That would surely work... So Albert fished around in his kit-bag, to find the presents for the kids and put them at the top, and in doing so his hand closed on a tobacco tin. "What's this?" he thought, and opening it saw the dead man's teeth. Albert told my uncle that he almost vomited on the spot, and hurled them tin and all out the window and sat there shaking uncontrollably. What had seemed a perfectly reasonable and even clever idea in the context of the war, suddenly - in peaceful country Australia with a wife and children waiting for him, whom he would smile at and kiss, daily for the rest of his life - Albert wondered what sort of a monster he'd become while in that war zone. Albert was a real nice bloke, according to my uncle. Getting Liam back into Melbourne, surrounded with his other life, and supported by people who rate him and who reinforce his identity as a magician on the footy field, part of a team that is not divided and dangerous but rather supportive and focused on forming character and teamwork and achieving positive goals - it could close the door on what he did in a previous life. We who were not there as part of the other world he has lived in, we cannot have any idea - but surely we can recognise that not everyone who did terrible things in a war zone is an unredeemable monster. Let him return to a place he apparently would prefer to be in! And shuttup pretending you have never strayed to the dumb side of the harmless little situations you've found yourself in!

Not picking players because they may go home is pathetic nonsense. No offence, deeman, but kids are idiots who don't know what they want. I will back Roos and co. to provide an environment that keeps Hogan (WA), Toumpas (SA), Viney (Krypton) et al at the club.

Confirmed by the club that the stars are gone. So too the ridiculous collars. The Schwab cleansing is almost complete.

I suppose that's your way of saying you were wrong; it's a bit hard to tell. I always have a look at the Age, it's always good to know what the enemy are up to.

WJ, yes you are right, the sporting bodies world-wide complain about the pace of investigation by local WADA affiliates. I think it is largely a matter of resources and local laws. In the AFL/NRL cases, the legislation had to be changed in order for ASADA to get the powers to gather the evidence. They also needed to be given additional resources which is not easy in these straightened times. We are talking about public bodies here. If the AFL was solely responsible for the investigation, I have no doubt that, being a private body, they would have thrown resources at it because for every month this drags on it increases the uncertainty around their competition and its long term viability. Personally, I'm glad they are taking their time to do it thoroughly. If they came out with a half baked judgement, Essendon and the AFL (and the NRL) would tie it up in the courts for years. They need to develop a water-tight case BEFORE they pronounce on the consequences. it would not surprise me if we didn't get a pronouncement until 2015. The implications for all concerned in this are just too serious all round. We will just have to be patient and trust them to get it right.

Yes to the first, and a somewhat biased yes to the second. Regardless, I'm fairly certain Demonland will embrace whoever is chosen at pick 9…and swiftly call for their castration shortly after the first time their turnover leads to an opposition goal.

Then I'd prefer Scharenberg, from Salem and Freeman.

I have an old training jumper from the early 90's which is exactly the same as this except for the blue side panels. It looks great and I always thought it would be an ideal clash jumper.

I have had a look at the videos of both Freeman and Salem. Freeman is quick but runs like a small player crouches down and keeps closer to the ground. his kicking lets him down. Salem on the other had runs tall, has good eyes to spot players on the move and is a deadly left foot kick. I don't think he has any right foot which could pose a problem when he steps into AFL. of the two I would go for Salem

Interesting article on the AFL website that questions the whole value of altitude training. High altitude, low benefit, says expert Article summary: There were more effective training aids in which to invest, with the jury still out on the benefits from altitude training. $850,000 is a lot of money that could be better spent, for example on 4-5 assistant coaches. The cost benefit is not there and players could be better improved by spending the money on coaches or skills training. Players' running performance at sea level improved by 1-2% after a training camp, but the results were short-lived. The benefit lasts about four weeks and will be maintained until about Christmas when most players go off and do limited amounts of training anyway. There was no scientific evidence or documentation to support the belief that altitude training enabled players to train harder on return. There was no evidence to suggest there could be a cumulative effect from repeat ventures. (I notice Collingwood has ditched their's in favour of a cheaper in-house altitude facility.)

I wouldn't even say Strauss has an elite kick. He regularly misses targets whenever under a scintilla of pressure. Good at training tho.

Salem for mine. Elite footskills. We are lacking bigtime.

Marry me.

Choke's right Robbie, your extreme bias has you talking in circles. You critisized Choke for not voting for anyone and not making a decision, but then have a go at me because I voted Labor in the house of reps and Greens in the senate. You had a go at Greens & Labor for preferencing Palmer United aheadof the Liberal party, yet not the Liberal Party for preferencing Palmer ahead of both of them. If the Fairfax race had of been between Palmer & the Labor member, where do you think the Liberal Member's preference would have gone? You complain about people having a go at Abbott on a thread named Tony Abbott is an international embarrasment, yet then proceed to give derogatory names to several different Labor Members. You say that Abbott has made comments in the past that he regrets, but then come out and talk about all these things Albanese & Shorten have done in the past. You have to practice what you preech Robbie. As for the broad staements about The Greens, you've called their economic policies in to line and said anyone who supported them and saw their policieswould be embarrased. Well, what policies of The Greens are embarrasing? You also then go on about Labor and Greens voters crying out bias about anyone who doesn't agree with them, yet have you read your own posts on this thread Robbie? I suggest you do.