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Here's a comparison... AFL Games: Neitz - 306 Hogan - 0 I'm excited as anyone, but let's let the kid play.

SCATTERGUN!!!

I am not 'afraid' - I disagree with you.

On the way to our first preseason session yesterday I was driving along with a fellow Melbourne supporter dissecting our list. We seemed to agree that there is a large amount of "Sleeping Talent" on our list. And for the last 24 hours the thought of unfulfilled potential has been at the forefront of my mind...I thought I would share with you some of my thoughts: As all Melbourne supporters now know, there is no promise that sleeping talent will ever arise from the slumber. Just ask Cale Morton, Jordan Gysberts, and Lucas Cook who all seem to be in an ever lasting coma. Potential makes every Melbourne supporter sick to the stomach. We have heard it all before... So why is this season different to all other seasons? It might not be...However, all of a sudden we have the "messiah" at the helm. A man that seems to motivate men better than any other in the football industry. A man that when he speaks, he makes complete sense and because he makes complete sense, people listen. Not only has he turned average footballers into integral members of premiership teams (Shaw, Kennedy, Mcglynn etc.) he has also given birth to two A-grade coaches in Longmuire and Lyon. The man has the runs on the board. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results...However, I like his chances a lot more than those that have come before him. If Roosy is able to turn this club around, which players will finally arise from their slumber. There are plenty of possibilities...Lets have a look at some of our "Sleeping Talents": #4 Jack Watts- A shift into the midfield might spark his performance, but it would seem a shift in his mind is what is required. Will he be remembered as the soft private school boy or the gun number 1 draft pick? #5 Jimmy Toumpas- A full preseason could just do the trick. Will he be another draft blunder or the next Simon Black? #6 Chris Dawes- Will he return to the form that saw him become a premiership CHF or is he just here to boost his superannuation? #7 Jack Viney- Will he turn those bursts of brilliance from season 1 into a consistent A-grade midfielder? #8- James Frawley- Once considered the brightest prospect out of any key position backman in the league. Will Frawley be a one hit wonder or the gun we all hope for? #9- Jack Trengove- No longer with the burden of being captain and hopefully a full preseason under his belt...Is Trennerz ready to live up the hype of being pick 2? #11 Mitch Clark- Should be our best player, but can his body hold up? #17 Sam Blease #19 James Strauss #35 Luke Tapscott- All first round draft picks, but the jury is well and truly out. The same generation as Gysberts, Morton, & Cook, but hopefully not the same destiny. #37 Max Gawn- The giant man has shown glimpses, but can he become Aaron Sandilands or will he be the next Daniel Bandy? #48 Jack Fitzpatrick- He teased us last years with spurts of form, but will he be able to go that extra mile? #? Viv Michie- Had 6 plus 30 possession games in the WAFL last year...Just ask James Magner, doesn't mean he can bring it to the big league. #? Dom Tyson- He's already had 24 and 26 possessions at AFL level. So did Jordan Gysberts...Will his body let him fulfil his potential? #9 draft pick- Can he come in and make an immediate impact in the way Daniel Rich and Ollie Wines have previously? As you can see there are many questions that are yet to be answered. All the aforementioned have sleeping talent...Most of them have scars from years gone by. Some physical, most emotional. Will Roosy be able to heal the wounds and as he says himself, "find what makes them tick"? The jury is out. But if this man is good as all say he is, there is plenty of sleeping talent at his disposal.

They, at very best reading, attempted "to gain advantage" by pharmacological means with drugs not approved by WADA ASADA WADA have never given any user "benefit of the doubt" due to ignorance, so it would be very surprising to see them letting this one slip through unsanctioned. If they did it would be the end of them, and the end of any "drug free sport", should such exist, anywhere in the world. In other words, open slather.

I disagree with Clark in the ruck.. I think some have forgotten just how good he is at FF - before getting injured he had the 7th best goal per game average in the comp, and that's in an awful side with low quality and quantity of inside 50s. A full season at FF with some better midfield performances he could well give the coleman a shake

Just the title of this thread makes me cringe. Give it a rest.

Can we let him play a bloody game of AFL footy first, please.

Part of that is due to Jamar's predictability. His lack of height and leap means that he has to out body the opponent and then hit the ball in a predictable spot with his favourable left hand. It's why he worked so well with Moloney for a period but so poorly with anyone else. Spencer has a much better hit range as he's taller and can jump a bit.

Hopefully sooner than later Gawn or Spencer replaces Jamar for good but it hasn't happened yet. Clark needs to play 2nd ruck otherwise we're top heavy forward if all of Clark, Dawes, Hogan and a 2nd ruckman play - even though that's the R1 team I selected in that thread I'm not happy with it - I'm not sure Clark is ready to ruck R1 but let's hope he is.

Laud the young, lambast the old.This is such an easy argument on here. Lets have a look at the stats shall we? Disposals per game Avg (2013): Gawn 8.9. Jamar 8.1 Marks: Gawn 2.9 Jamar 2.3 Tackles: Gawn 2.5 Jamar 3.1 Hitouts: Gawn 18.6 Jamar 33.1 (Spencers were 10.0, 3.1, 2.4 and 26.6) Neither of these two are setting the world on fire now, are they? There's a negligible difference between both of them, other than the chief responsibility of the ruckman, to win hitouts, where Jamar is way ahead. I cant find hitouts to advantage figures anywhere but I'd hasten to suggest both's are pretty low by league standards. Gawn may be a character off the field, but showed fairly stilted development this year. Spencer shows desperation and enthusiasm, but still doesnt look a natural. Jamar is ageing and slowing, but for Round 1 still our best bet.

this is what separates him from all the other young guns coming throgh Hogan has the presence of Carey, the strength of Neitz and the aggression of Lockett He is going to be a maniac in the best way possible. And dont bother keeping a lid on it, the whole AFL world knows we have latched on to a very special player. Enjoy the ride,

If I want to compare and prognosticate I friggin will. I did if for the likes of Neitz and I'll do it for Hogan. If Hogan equals Neitz I'll be a little disappointed. He's a better package and I firmly believe will be a better player.

Here we go again for another year, Got down there today for a short while Training pics 2013-11-06 ==> http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Training-20131106/33265265_VPpv7Q#!i=2887448292&k=VHKJM7r&lb=1&s=A

Hes a RFA yeh? Good luck letting him go..

So do I, if there is anybody who has played footy at any level saying they have never ducked, stepped out of a contest etc etc at least once in their playing days, either they never played or they are lying Dunn has had the Demonland target removed from his forehead and it seems to have found a new home with Pedo, I see him as a solid back up tall defender, who hasn't palyed 30 games yet, he has a lot of upside.....

There are some clear reasons why Roos wants to put Watts in the middle. He has great skills by hand and foot and a very good footy brain - , something which we've lacked in our midfield - often see him do some very clever taps or passes to teammates that allow them to clear congestion and break lines (basketball influence is evident here). Plus you can combine this with speed, particularly the first 20m which he tested at below 3 seconds in the draft combine and his height & strength could make him into a very damaging midfielder that would rest up forward and still be damaging in front of goals. He should have about 5-6kgs at least on most midfielders, so by further adding to his core strength and learning how to use his body correctly he could become very damaging in congested situations. In theory He'll be able to break tackles, use a burst of speed to get clear of everyone else and then provide a pinpoint pass to a leading target up forward. Although his training regime will need adjustment, primarily his fitness base so that he can maintain high speeds for entire quarters and games. Often I noticed he was unable to chase down players and I believe in part this because he lacks the endurance to maintain his speed across the game (similar to Trengove), although it may partly be due to confidence/attitude in believing he can make those tackles. This is impossible to measure though and needs to be addressed outside of the gym and field. Obviously there are concerns regarding his attitude and desire for the contest, I'm not really worried about it personally. Firstly, Watts has shown improvements in this area and this has improved simultaneously with the confidence in his game and belief that he is an AFL player, albeit I don't think either have improved greatly from when he was drafted for various reasons. He has played his best games though when he has been able to get his hands on the ball and in my opinion its during these games he also shows the most desire for the ball. Playing in the midfield, against smaller bodies, he should be getting the ball a lot more and over the year I believe that there will be significant improvement in his hunt, desire and aggression to the ball and player. Although this is assuming he settles into the midfield well and finds some form, builds his confidence and belief. On a side note, I know that this happened in my footy. Like Watts, I'm a tall player that played up forward and was often criticised for not using my size enough but this year I was moved into the first ruck position (normally just a relief ruckman due to my inability to jump very high). I found that even though I was pretty average in the ruck that just playing in the midfield allowed me to get my hands on the ball and it eventually clicked that I was too big for midfielders to tackle effectively, so I could normally get a pass out. I also started just becoming much more aggressive in my game, being able to use my bigger body meant that I was for the first time confident to really attack the game. It also probably helped that I was also the fittest and strongest I've been in my life. At the end of the year I won my first B&F, something that was very unexpected considering that I've never won an award for footy besides participation awards (also lucky with a few well timed injuries and overseas holidays). I only mention this because I'm a similar height and the same age as Watts so I guess we'd be at similar stages of development and maturity (but there might be a bit of a difference to playing AFL footy and playing in the low divisions of Sydney AFL comp).

28 posts gone. Stu, we get that you find these discussions tedious. I find discussing the same things over and over again tedious too, but the fact is that the merits or otherwise of Watts is a popular and contentious topic. I also get that you might have thought there was something new in here - now you know there isn't, so there's no need for you to continue to read the thread, right?

wow jack watts ive been waiting for so long to to see a thread about this bloke, it will be interesting to see whether this thread kicks off with any more comments about JW always wondered why nobody started a thread about him earlier

That's a pretty closed minded view - people don't see it your way so it must be because they are afraid of upsetting him. I don't think there's anything to be afraid of, anyway. Grimes doesn't strike me as the sort to get pissy over losing the captaincy.

I wouldn't be sure enough to laugh at everyone. I think what you'll find, if you just think about it, that there is a considerable body of people here who just won't believe he is ready to play until he does. I'm one of them.

Clark to become 2nd ruck? Are there any other teams whose 2nd ruck is better than their 1st ruck?

The preseason will be critical for Jamar. I don't think he is a cert for first pick ruckman.

I know Matt Jones personally he is far from unfit. For someone to even mention that has no idea what they are talking about. He is a great trainer & someone the inner personnel at the MFC rate clearly. One of the very few last yr to follow the game plan.

I know preseason training reports is when you think you shine, but I'd rather not see your name every third post. Thanks.

I will take another Neitz anytime. Forget versatility, I will take the pack crashing key forward who kicks goals and scares the shytes out every backman anytime.

Nah, Newton was an athlete who looked good when he got lucky and in the right place. Hogan is a footballer with athletic ability and a real competitive hard edge who knows how & where to get the ball and what to do with it when he has it. That judgement we can make now.

The days of the hit it and then sit and watch ruckman are long gone rpfc, they actually have to contribute around the ground these days. So, I will care, trust me.

Just for you, Redleg ... .

I don't mean to turn this into a Jamar thread but I just highlighted a couple points above for further discussion. The first point I highlighted in your post intrigues me as I know what the rule is but the moment the ball is in the air the ruckmen engage anyway, it kind of seems a pointless rule unless someone can tell me different. Final point is on size, who really cares how tall a ruckman is as long as they win the tap. He played injured for the first half of the season and still ended it 4th in the league in hit outs per game. I doubt they would have all been to advantage but not sure how this could have been possible with us effectively having two taggers in the square and one midfielder being tagged himself. Who knows going forward, he might have three mids in around him to tap it too and we can see him back to his best. No doubt he would have been hurting following some of his long term mates getting ditched and then for a reason we don't know he was dropped from the leadership group. I think people here are too quick to right off the big Russian. He is another that I am excited about under Roos to see if he can return to some form and get a bit of confidence back in his game as he looked a complete shadow of his former self over the last two years. Hoping so anyways and apologies to derail

That sure as hell makes two of us R&B

Not really, they are simply the highest level of current paying sponsors so why not give the some time in the sun.

Find me another player on our list who has history of leadership in different environments like Jack Grimes has: He has repeatedly proven himself a man of outstanding leadership qualities. Jones, on the other hand, only realised at the start of this season that he needed to encourage others and help them improve. Further, I am not sure what you mean by "stood up on the park". As far as I can tell you are trying to pick the "best performed MFC player" not a captain. I'd argue that if anyone at the MFC was ever going to fly the flag for a team mate it would be Grimes, Dawes or Clark before Jones, who had a tenancy to walk away and let others sort it out. Jones displays prowess at the game of football but until this season had rarely shown any leadership on the field.

It's an interesting angle that the reason the much maligned (on here, and by me included) 'donuts'Jamar could actually look average because he doesn't have the midfield to work with. Not an idea I've seen brought up on here before. I think it is partly right; some great midfielders around him will improve his value as a tap ruck. What it won't improve are his efforts around the ground or his handballs to stationary players because he was scared to kick it. The reason I like Gawn is because I think he is the most complete player of the three ruck options, however I admit he is the last developed, particularly when it comes to centre Square rucking. He chases and tackles, he presents, he looks dangerous drifting forward, and his attack on the ball a a second or third effort at stoppages is great. Jamar rucks well and that's it; even at his AA best that's all he did (in only 6 of his 13 seasons has he averaged more than 7 disposals per game, and over 10 in only 3 seasons). Spencer rucks Ok, is Ok around the ground and second efforts but doesn't rest forward and isn't particular strong in making contests. If Gawn can get fit over preseason and continue development he will easily be the best of the three given his potential attributes and his age.

Mate I have been engaging in decent debate over this player since I saw him play his first games at Casey. The player has shown above average skill level, and is below average in nearly every other meaningful requirement. He was peeling off contests at Casey in his first few games and leaving teammates battling 1:2 and 1:3, in late 2013 he was still doing it. He has had four coaches and I would suggest countless people attempting to get in his head and change his game. He deserves at this point to be known as an average player in a poor side. I would love Roos to come in and wave a magic wand and turn Jack Watts into a better than average footballer, history suggests that it is unlikely. People still spout off his so called upside virtually rewriting his pre-draft profile and quoting his draft camp stats verbatim. I go off what I see, and I see an ordinary and unaccountable footballer that plays with little vigour. I respect Roos efforts to try to squeeze as much as he can out of him, and would dearly love him to become a very good and accountable team focussed footballer. We need to move away from thinking that this bloke is going to be anything but a bit player in our future. He is just not that good.

Seems to be a common interpretation that because Trengove has relinquished the Captaincy he won't be in the LG at all. Personally, I think for the benefit of his ongoing growth in effective leadership he should be in the LG. Sure, playing excellent footy is the number 1 priority but to be left out of any leadership responsibilities would be a shame given his obvious qualities.

OK - fair point. But there has been so much "bad" over the last 6 years it's been hard to remember the "good".

He was a real circus!

Schwabby's desk recovered - secrets revealed

minimum 4 yrs at min. $450, 000 =min $1.8 million. we have lost 3 out of 3 free agents it was not meant to work this way to "equalize" where the rich rob the poor

I think i heard Roos say that the players would pick a leadership group and he, PJ, JM and the coaching staff would pick the captain(s) from that group. Which is how it should be. I really disliked how Neeld took no responsibility for picking JT and JG as captains and put it all back on the players. It was doubly poor as he then used the fact that the 2 youngest blokes in the LG were the ones with the highest score against a range of criteria to highlight how poor the senior player were in terms of leadership. In any case it was completely disingenuous as he no doubt crated the list of characteristics that players were scored against. Such a woeful example of man management. He should have had the courage of his convictions and named them as captains himself. Or if he had a clue not name them and make someone like Jones captain. But to justify their selection by saying the players had chosen them (which they didn't as they simply completed a questionnaire) was weak. Roos will show how it should be done.

Skippers - Grimes and Jones Vice - Garland LG - Dawes, Clark, Cross, Frawley, Vince & Trengove Ed: Trengove

was that ^^ tony's latest foreign diplomacy foray........picked up the lingo pretty quickly

Pick 40, pick 40, pick 40.

Classic Demonland.

More likely that he's about to be lapped

All well and good, but rates of improvement in fitness aren't linear, nor are they the same for every individual. FWIW, Matt Jones played every game this season, but this time last year, as opposed to trying to keep up in 300m sprints, he was working as an electrician. He started pre-season late, and off a low(er) base, but still managed to get to where he needed to be by Round 1. They have time.

C'mon guys,it's our first day of training and it turns into a sh1tfight everytime. I'm right-you're wrong Grade 3 crap!!!

In retrospect Barrett is still a [censored] !!

Take Scotland ?? I think they're saying NO !!!