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There seems to be two extremes on this site, i.e. we're only two or three mids away from being a finals team" to "we're stuffed and there's only 4 or 5 players on the list that are worth having or that will reach their potential". In my opinion neither is true. While I won't get into "top 6" versus "bottom 6" to determine how good a team is, I firmly believe it's your senior core that determines your playing fortunes. There are plenty of young players at Hawthorn, Sydney, Geelong and Collingwood that would look crap if they were running around for Melbourne. Posters would be saying, "Why did we pick up this dud ?". Our plight can be sheeted home to our dearth of quality senior players. It's the reason our midfield is ordinary and why we second guess ourselves all over the field. It's the reason I don't believe our list is as bad as some, or that we're in the terrible plight some think we are. Robbief mentions that our only decent players are Jones, Frawley, Garland, Viney and Clark. Other than Viney, who is a rarity, those players have got games 100 games under their belt - Clark 97. It's why they've reached a level of competency. Other than Rodan and Davey, who are at the end, the only other players with over 100 games yesterday were Dunn and Sylvia. It's little wonder we are where we are. But it also doesn't mean we don't have talent on our list that is capable of being nurtured. At Eade's first training session at the Dogs he asked players to stand on a particular side of him if they believed they belonged at AFL level. I don't believe anyone did. They didn't believe they belonged. Our players don't believe they belong and there's nothing more important than belief. At the end of his first season Eade asked the same question and this time nearly the entire playing list went to the side that said they belonged. They played finals in his second year and went on to play in 3 prelims. Btw, I reference this not to endorse Eade, just to show how teams can evolve under the right stewardship. Earl Nightingale died in the 80's. He mentored from the 1950's. But he and others have got it right. "You become your thoughts". Your thoughts are the most powerful thing you have. Our players presently have no belief, but I reckon there's talent there to blossom. Whether you think much of Jack Fitzpatrick, or not, he's a classic example of someone who started to believe he belonged and showed what he's capable of. Unlike some others, I don't want to go down the Chapman, Dal Santo, etc, path. I'm not averse to landing a quality young mid, but I don't want an old one. There's going to be more pain, but I want to develop through the draft and within. If we can get a David Swallow or Taylor Adams all the better. We do need more quality and senior players don't grow on trees, but with the right recruiting, developing, coaching and personal development programs this club can and will be turn our fortunes around. And it can definitely happen quicker than people think.

You'd do better to direct your anger at those who produced the mess we are now in. Bailey had a young group of players playing with confidence and enjoyment despite the beltings they received along the way. They could match it with teams around them and could get on a roll and destroy oppositions with great footy every now and again. Two years on and we'd kill for that position. McLardy, Schwab, Connolly and Lyon are the one's you should be angry at. Inept management and governance, atrocious coaching selection process, newbie recruiting bloke who'd never done the job before and was put in charge at a critical time of the clubs development and the selection of a coach who had been rejected before the final cut at numerous coaching jobs before us. We didn't even do a psych test on him. Don't have to be Einstein to predict the current outcome. Don't blame the players. They have been ill treated, abused, mismanaged and disrespected by their senior coach for two years, asked to play a terrible brand of footy and have lost confidence and self respect because of the blindingly inept process they have been put through. I feel for the players. I won't blame Watts if he leaves because he's had enough of the place. Lets face it, we've done not one thing to earn his respect or his loyalty and if you're silly enough to think the relationship doesn't work both ways you'll never get it. Thankfully things are changing but the previous administration and FD have taken this club to unimaginable lows and it's a leap of faith of the players to want to stay on. Direct your anger where it's deserved and it's not the players.

Having re-watched the first half Toumpas had 10 handballs, 8 which were clearly effective freeing a man into space. He handballed once under pressure to Trengove which resulted in no turnover and a 50/50 he pushed out to Garland which we took the ball away from the play. He had 3 kicks all were moving the ball forward. None were direct clangers as all went to 50/50's but one was taken away from the contest for a score for Adelaide (4 possessions in the chain later). Outside of his possessions he got caught taking the game on in the first half which cost us a goal. So he had 13 touches in the first half 8 that clearly put us in a more attacking position, 4 that had no direct negative impact and one which cost a goal 4 possessions later in a scoring chain. He was clearly our most effective player in the first half and these so called possessions selling others into trouble and his slow decision making seem to be figments of peoples imagination. Will have a look at the second half when I get a chance.

Suck it up princess. "As the year goes on you can go one of two ways. You can either sook about it and give up, or you keep fighting. For me it's an obvious answer": Jack Viney. BTW, happy birthday.

Just wanted to make a few quick comments on the young lad as I went to the game yesterday and watched closely. Firstly, I couldn't believe people were giving him 6 votes in Demonland of year. The kid had low 20's disposal and had no presence in the game physically. 3 different times he shot out a quick handball to a player who was under super pressure, just so he would not get crunched in the tackle. The good: To me, he looks exactly like a Steele Sidebottom type, smart with skills. The kids is a natural ball finder, and creates space with his run. A couple of times he run really hard down into the absolute last line of defence to cover which was pleasing. His tackling has improved slightly and the floppyness in his physicality has gone, but the kid just needs a few pre-season to bulk up, gets crunched easily. Anyway no need to worry with this lad, he will be a player, but is still 2 years off.

MELBOURE FOOTBALL CLUB...If it was a dog, you'd shoot it.

Bullying Great and I can't wait for ASADA to knock on his door and ask to who at Essendon he was injecting and giving tablets, what they were and to produce his records.

A first year player who had a slow start but is now picking up the tempo of the game and has improved markedly as the year's gone on, I'm happy with where he's at.

"we train really well"

enyaw has hit the froths again

At this point, I'd be happy if we won more than 4 games in a season.

Yes, award it to the supporter who went to every home game.

This a fantasy thread so I'll give mine. (My football one) Just watching the Bullies getting touchedup. How would you like Rich in our midfield. He's 23 and played 90 odd games. Can do it all and has 8-10 years in front of him. I'll wake up now.

After the annual tish sandwiches supporters and members have been served over the past six years they surely can't be suckered by a name coach. Members, supporters ( with exception of the masochistic die hards) won't come back to the clubs in droves until the side is competitive, it's winning games and plays a style of footy that people want to watch. If the proper coaching selection results in Craig getting the job then so be it. Lets move forward. There is hard slog ahead with no short cuts. As Jackson advised its not hard fix, it's just not a quick fix.

One thing i noticed with Toump is that he can actually handball, and not just handball, he handballs to advantage (i.e., in-front of where the Melbourne player is running, with power and around waist height).. The amount of Melbourne players who cannot handball is shocking for AFL level. I think i saw Matt Jones handball soft floaty passes 3 times at the feet of another Melbourne player.. If you are afraid of hurting your hand when you hit the ball you have a problem... GO DEES!

The good sides are still led by a core group of quality 25+year old players and supported by a bevy of improving 21+ year old players. Our issue has been that Junior aside we have had a dearth of leadership for the past 6 years and now only have a small group of quality mid 20 year olds in Jones, Frawley, Garland, Clark and Dawes who are worthy of leading. Our improving 21+ year olds have either left ie: Scully, have not shown the level of expected improvement i.e: Trengove, Grimes, Watts etc... have been complete misses ie: Cook, Gysberts or due to poor choice, circumstance or lack of development appear to not be of the quality required ie: Tapscott, Strauss, Blease etc.... I am confident that the players in that mid 20s group whilst not being the most talented have the right work ethic and values to push the others below them and set the right tone going forward. I am confident that the players that we have drafted last year in Viney, Hogan, Toumpas, Kent, Terlich and Jones have the right level of committment, hardness and competitive animal to want to get the best out of themselves. Both these bode well for our longer term success if we build on this again at the draft this year. However how rapid our improvement comes from is heavily reliant on our actions over the preseason and what a new coach can do to improve the middle tier who have not come on.

Aside from 7 minutes in the second quarter and the last half of the last quarter we were with them. The umpiring was terrible and gave them about 8 goals either directly or from the next kick. Holding the ball didn't exist for our 70 tackles yet they got about 10 holding the balls from their 58. It is very hard when you are being umpired out of it to keep going at the end. we eventually dropped our heads and gave up when it was over and they got soft goals. We have some players who give no effort. We have some who don't know what gut running is. We have some who are simply soft. We get no leadership from our captains. I now think their elevation is a monumental blunder. It has affected their games as well. Our skills are what let us down time and time again. It is easy when the other side gives you the ball. Some of our passing by foot and hand is as bad as I have seen, but we do it all the time. The coach seems to have got us trying, but without a midfield and skilled, hard, players, it is an impossible task. We should just show film of Hodge, all day to our soft players. We have no one like a Campbell Brown who can intimidate. As every Dees fan knows, we have no midfield, though I think Viney, Jones and Toumpas will form the basis of the one we end up with.

- The major focus of the broadcast today was just how wonderful the crows, their venue and their supporters all are. I wish someone would have had the BALLS to tell the truth and mention how fitting it is to have the last game play out like that: with the crows getting prime quality silver service from the umpires. Ah the memories, so many dodgy frees, so many undeserved wins. Could you believe it when Pedo got a free in the last quarter and they all went nuts booing!? Absolute minimum of 6 goals they cost us, what a friggin disgrace. In the last there was a free against Frawley (it was never shown even in replay, and the commentators didn't even mention it all) and you could hear Chip say to the ump 'you're killing us mate, you're absolutely killing us'. - I don't think I have ever wanted a commentary box to burst into flames as much as I did today. What a pack of douchebags. They offer no valuable insight or analysis, are incredibly biased against Melbourne and talk more carp than I have ever heard. 'Sloane's got the golden locks but he plays hard footy'.. 'who will be the last player to be falconed at this ground' 'did you kinow the record for most individual goalkickers is intact' .. of my favourite line of the day re: the Mexican wave.. it is good to see ppl support something in football that originated in Mexico.. yeah fantastic, brilliant, topical, amusing comments there fhead... OMG. If ever see 'Baz' in person I am going to kick him in the face that absolute tool. - As usual we enjoyed not one but two periods of the books completely stopping to conceded an avalnche of goals. It must be part of our punishment for them to show they can match it with anyone for 50-75% of a football game and get absolutely murdered in the other parts. This is clearly a mental/emotional syndrome and that is all you need to know about whether or not Craig should be any chance of staying on. -Grimes FFS you clanger machine. M.Jones, Viney gave us zero. Another 2 kicks for Jordie. Tapscott, Pederson hopeless. With Rodan out early you can't have that much fail in one side. hurry up and end you steaming terrd of a season

Sylvia fumbles constantly under pressure. He's simply not a midfielder. Watts won't use his body in a marking contest if he's half a chance of getting hurt. Dunn piked it as usual. Toumpas was OK, but is a mile off. Have a look at Crouch and the way he competes for the footy. Toumpas is a distributor, but he's not a ball winner - yet. Will be OK, and is feeling better about himself, but those getting a chubby would get a chubby over anything at the moment, such is our plight. Grimes makes terrible decisions. They were given 5 goals from undisciplined play or umpiring errors. Not our worst performance. Get some more support in the middle and some more fire power up front and things can turn quicker than many think. EDIT: Basil frigging Zempilas - if he said "Melbourne understands their role in this" one more time I'd hunt the ugly bast-ard down. EDIT 2: For an ex-premiership captain Tom Harley is the most uninspiring commentator in the games. The annoying [censored] gives no insight whatsoever.

That commentary was just awful. Who the F is Basil whomever to demand and end to finger pointing? Just call the game, your personal opinion is irrelevant. Secondly, some of those umpiring decisions were just baffling. The not 15 meters in the 3rd. Wow, it was at least 20 and 10% of kicks in general play theses days are shorter. The Slone free kick! Would just love an even break. As for the Dangerfield decisions, if a red head flaps his gums on the Gold Coast does it cause a whistle to blow in Adelaide?

Melbourne FC - will drop pants for midfield.

He's done dumb things for years. As long as we have pea hearted, no-skilled players like him on the list we'll go nowhere, no matter who is the coach.

Support MFC! Because winning is overrated!

Disgraceful post. Aaron has given us a great service and you have the guts to pot him. Unbelieveble some of you supporters! He was playing good footy before his knees started getting dodgy. And Aaron provided valuable leadership to thos other indigenous players. But wasnt his fault they tragic circumstance.

I've heard all that before and I'd like a $1 for every Melbourne player that's shown POTENTIAL and failed to deliver; I'm trying to think of one player on our list over the last 10 years that's taken a "huge leap forward" and I can't think of one, not one in ten years. You can think what you like and I guess I was once like you and actually believed that the players would miracously transform in to quality, but I gave up on that pipe dream. We have a vey ordinary team with a few who have shown they can handle the top but I stress, a few. If Frawley was in a good side he would probably be a B+ player and maybe Clark would as well, Garland would be a B- Viney is to early to tell and Jones B- that's it. I'm really hopeful about Hogan and Toumpas and I hope that Trenners can find his first and second year form and that Howe can be our Nathan Fyfe and that Grimes can recapture the form that gave us hope for him in the first place and that Watts will turn out to be a great player dominating matches and Evans will come on and that Gawn will be the dominant ruckman in the competition. That's a lot of hope. Reality, we have a lot of C grade players that mat be able to step up to B grade but not a lot. The problem with Melbourne is you watch them all the time and get seduced in to thinking that one more pre-season or another 50 games under the belt and they'll come good, but they simply don't and eventually they get replaced by the next bunch of duds who become the next future "potential champions". Don't get me wrong it breaks my heart to watch us go round every year with our season finished after the first round, but that's reality.

Who we assemble off field will be far more important than any far fetched what ifs on field.

That is a very diplomatic way of saying the umps were pathetic. 70 tackles and we get our first holding the ball late in the last quarter, while we are pinged every time someone touched us, when we had the ball. I know they didn't cost us the game, but they umpired worse than we passed the ball to each other.

Fair enough. I've been involved in sporting teams and know that unless you're on the field of play the success enjoyed by a group is pretty hollow for non contributors. Accordingly I doubt Trengove, Grimes, Frawley et al are going to gain much out of a Casey success and while it might be good for a few they are, mainly, not the ones that will return MFC to success. Listening to Neil Craig's post presser today I'm really impressed with the balance he has between recognizing what the players are going through and demanding high standards and performance. If the FD, led by him, think it's beneficial I'd back him but at the moment it's hard to see the line "it all started when Troy Davis, Jimmy Magner and Dom Barry carried the cup off the ground for Casey in 2013". The players are shot. Their confidence is non existent, their self esteem low and their enjoyment od life poor. That will be rubbing off on those around them and my gut feel is the sooner it's over the better. I struggle with the concept that being round the club while a few play for Casey is beneficial. Fortunately I'm not charged with making the decision!

obviously it just means you belong here on demonland

Hirdipus Rex?

.....I don't know is that legal? Sounds like something a good team would do. We don't want to play with the rules of the game - lets just keep handballing it to still players just to be safe.

He was fantastic yesterday, a real positive of the game. I think you have misread his game. I thought his ability to stay composed in congestion and not on get a handpass out, but get a creative handpass out that lead to an open man was very exciting. Showed he has ability to play inside which will complement his outside running ability. A real step forward in what has been a disappointing first season for him.

Spot on. This is why GB said we needed mongrol because for too long we have been percieved as very soft and so we bloody should! Though i believe tToumpas will be a good player it should have started off by picking up Wines first. The formidible duo him and jack viney would have made would have set the tone for this club and the future. If we had Wines i would been all for Aish but we need Headunters and physical grunt! This is why we should be chasing Dunstan hard. The guy is tough as nail and will make the same impact as what Wines did this year. Im so over skinny outside class atm we are in desperate need of grunt. We have jones viney and Mckenzie.. thats it.

Im not sure Hird is the architect of all this.... He played his part, but he is not alone.... Weren't most of these guys involved, at Geelong with bomber Thompson.... when they won there flags? Now we all know why Geelong's players are so much bigger then everybody else's..... I can't see how Bomber Thompson is in the clear here! If anything I'd say he is the architect.... Im also suss on the AFL involvement in all this.... How did the AFL know to call the Bombers, they day before this news broke? Did they know about this program? Have they turned a blind eye on program's like this before? It all smells like corruption to me...

Look at Freo, when the opposition has the ball they have 18 taggers in the face of their opponents.

Ok I hadn't noticed it in the past and thought it convenient timing. Fair enough. As a Melbourne supporter as much as I hate to say it you do have to admire their resilience under pressure.

You are kidding aren't you? He is a beautiful kick and some handpasses yesterday were very smart directly or in front of a running player who didn't have to miss a step. Yes he floundered a couple of times but that isn't his disposal. If there isn't an option, he can't create one: he can't kick to a lead of no one is leading, he can't kick to advantage of we are outnumbered. If he looks up and there is only oposition players forward it makes sense that he will back pedal to retain possession rather than blaze away because that is the type of player he is. If a teammate doesn't shepherd and give him space he will be under pressure. Displaying good disposal is reliant on a bunch of other factors, but that doesn't change the inherent quality of his disposal. When the team plays better footy and gets in better positions and runs harder, you will see what good disposal is.

Melbourne Football Club - 'Where the off season is our time to shine"

My take is after listening to NC presser is that there will be a new coach, he made a point that he loves the development side of things and that is where he may help within the structure, I would have thought that the coaching panel would have asked the potential candidates abut Craig playing a role because he has another year to run on his contract. Lets face it with the honesty of Craig I don't think any coach would be looking over their shoulder with him there.

Would trade him back to North for nothing and would pay his contract for the next two years as well.

I could not believe that. WTF is wrong with that? Go F yourself Harley you add absolutely zero to a commentary team.. why don't you and 'Baz' get a room you butt pirate

MFC- we have jesse Hogan..

Yes and no. Let's recruit some players who can hit targets from 20 metres, arrive at the club with a BASIC skillset, demand high levels of fitness, show high levels of competitiveness and a willingness to listen and learn. Our list is not up to AFL standard. Simple.

Dangerfield and Ablett might disagree. Jordie is an absolute keeper.

Melbourne's game plan has not changed this year! Step 1 Handball to a fellow player close to an opposition player. Step 2 If he still has the ball, handball to another fellow player close to another opposition player but ensure the ball is still in the same area it was at the start. On no account go forward nor kick the ball to a free player but simply ensure ball continues to go round in a small circle until an opposition player tackles you and takes the ball away. If that looks unlikely kick it backwards. Step 3 If you happen to receive the ball with no opposition player in sight, stop look around,run a couple of slow steps but don't attempt to handball until the opposition player has tackled you. Step 4 Don't play on when a fellow player is free. Wait until the oopposition player has caught up then kick the ball. It is so depressing and I believe any person on this forum would have a better game plan than what we saw today (and every other week).

Melbourne FC - Hell on Earth!

Melbourne Football Club: Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

I cannot believe some absolute deadset muppets are already writing of toumpas after 12 games!! WTF is with you idiots!? The bloke is coming off a no pre season base due to his hips which alters your core strength and takes a while to build over. Playing games now means he is catching up on pre season fitness but also valuable experience. Not trying to make an excuse but when you dont have the pre season fitness base behind you, your going to be playing catch up football all year. He will be very much better prepared next year when he has had a solid summer on the track and new coaching panel. He has also had to look up to Grimes and Trengove as leaders and lets be honest both arent really much chop. The midfield around him is absolutely diabolical Lack of leadership in showing the kids like toumpas, kent etc in being the ultimate professional in what it takes to become an A grade player DEVELOPMENT and CULTURE are the main reasons why our young player havent kicked on! We are on life support and battling a spreading cancer thats affected our club for years. So for all you imbociles saying he is a dud, wasted pick, trade etc you can all EAD!

He did say the player would improve in six years. They may not have kept records (their bad) but is there evidence that one or more persons have destroyed evidence? I don think so. If there was definite evidence that EFC officials did destroy evidence of medical records then ASADA would have a smoking gun. If EFC aren't in enough trouble this would game set match ....they would be totally fracked with no wriggle room.

9 games. Caretaker is a job no-one should take, the way fans expect the undeliverable. He is a proven coach of men and we will have him or Eade or Williams and I am comfortable with that.