Leaderboard

That would be the worst way to win a flag ever.

If Wines was playing for us, then I could guarantee that there would be posters saying "We have so many butchers of the footy and now it looks like we've wasted pick 4 on another one. FMD!" They'd probably be the same ones that currently whine about Toumpas.

Let's just sit back, enjoy the show and hope for the worst.

Don't wrory about that. There are threads adnauseum on our problems. This is good therapy for the downtrodden. This is a free country. You dont have to read this thread.

nice title for a country and western song there bub

ffs that was 13 years back. no evidence of wrongdoing then. Some folk need to get hands above the table.

WWE style contract signing where it ends with the couch being tipped over and Gerard being thrown through the set.

How is 2 inside 50s even possible in an entire quarter of footy? You'd almost have to be kicking the ball backwards most of the time.... Oh.

they probably dont appreciate the competition !

I am starting to think James Hird is a sociopath in the mould of Lance Armstrong. He lied through his teeth before taking the coaching job, this was very easy to him, failed to take responsibility for that lie, continues to fail to take responsibility for his role in the the drugs and continues to preach that Essendon have done nothing wrong when evidence says otherwise. Hird is delusional, unaccountable, untruthworthy and unremorseful. On top of this, there are blokes like Dank and Robinson who say that the whole program was Hird's idea! Then throw in his past work with Charter in 2003 where he apparently paid him a large fee just for advice... Like Armstrong, we might find out that Sir James is no saint afterall

And it couldn't happen to a nicer club. I'm bitter enough to remember Michael Long on Troy Simmonds.

I hate Essendon nearly as much as Carlton, but I don't get pleasure out of a 45 year old mans health suffering so much he needs to stand down from the presidency of a club he loves. There have been terrible mistakes made at Essendon, but I feel for someone such as Evans, who in a voluntary capacity merely tried to serve his club.

To the OP: There are a few issues to consider. What do you expect to get for pick two? What could pick two become? And why would a current gun mid from another club want to be traded to Melbourne? A club won't cast off a gun mid for pick 2 if said mid doesn't want to leave his club. The better clubs understand how important the fabric of a club is and how easily it can be compromised. The only way they'd do it is if the mid was willing to go. In what world would a present gun mid want to leave a top 8 club to come to Melbourne? And if they did I'd be second guessing myself if I wanted them. You really need to name names if you want your thread to be taken seriously. Also, just because our development and drafting has been a disaster I still realise where the bulk of the best players in the AFL come from. Invariably they are very early picks, or Father/Son selections. Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Riewoldt, Selwood, Bartel, Griffen, Cotchin, Murphy, Deledio, Judd, Pendlebury, Pavlich are all top 10 picks, most top 5. O'Meara would have been top 5 (1), as would Hogan, Jeremy Cameron, Martin (GCS), Crouch. Not withstanding our bad luck, or ineptness, the best talent is invariably taken early. I'm loathe to give another club a leg up and miss out on what should be a great talent. Especially when I don't believe we'd get what you hope for. I'd give up pick 2 for Beams, but why on earth would he want to come to Melbourne? He wouldn't and Collingwood wouldn't do the deal. I think most of us understand there are no quick fixes. Essendon traded out Blumfield, Heffernan and Caracella, who were all premiership mids. Guess what? You would have thought at the time it was hitting the jackpot to get all three. In truth they looked good in a great team. There are many good AFL mids that would suddenly look decidedly average wearing red and blue. It's far easier to play well in a good side than a poor one. Imo, we must stay the course and draft the best young mids we can and hopefully a PP will aid that cause. If I supported GWS I'd be excited. Yes they usually get a belting, but this young team will grow together to become a force. They drafted too many young kids, whereas the Gold Coast were lucky enough to get Ablett, plus a few other solid senior players, but their talent will grow and bond together and their youthfulness affords them time. It has to be the youth path at Melbourne and if we recruit and develop them right our long-term future will be so much better than trading away precious early picks for more immediate gains. Give me "substance" over "seeming" any day.

And the bloke who said he would take full responsibility for all of this is still coaching.

How's the Dream team looking now Bummers?? You arrogant bunch of tossers.

mate its more why would someone trade a star mid for someone who might be a star mid one day

I am fed up with the MFC players escaping scrutiny for absolute shocking efforts. It is always the coach who gets it in the neck. These players need to get a grip if they want to cut the mustard at this level. Always wrap them up in cotton wool and blame others! They have better facilities than ever before, they have a dozen coaches teaching them how to play football, they have everything at their disposal and yet they are so bad on they day they have to perform, one would think they have spent the previous week getting flogged in a boxing ring. How many coaches do some of these blokes need to learn? Fair dinkum, I despair at their lousy attitude and incompetence.

This ground never fails to disappoint me. Arrived close to the bell & walked the city side flank. Full &/or committed to the North Melbourne club areas, plus some 'Auskick' reservation. Shot up to level 2 but no entry allowed & level 3 was closed. OK, back to level one & bluffed my way into a North Melbourne area for Q1. Out of there & around the otherside, but no seating. Amazing. Helpful attendant says they are letting people into ;level 2 via section 30. Eventual get a seat up there. Coffee at half time. Nah, but available down stairs. Its a hole. Imagine the MCG cutting of top level viewing. Its a dump. Its always been badly run & the tradition continues. Plse MFC Darwin, Maniku, even Goschs, but no more Etihad please.

And if Toumpas turns out to be a better player than Wines .......? Should the Bulldogs have picked Terlich at pick 4? Terlich has been doing better than Macrae. Maybe GWS should have picked Matt Jones at pick 2, because O'Rourke has done nothing so far, while Jones has played nearly every game. I would have thought that selecting players for today was the idea of trading, while drafting was for the long term. It's probably my fault for accepting mediocrity, rather than being irrational.

Dont forget hird has employed a highly regarded "spin doctor". Why does he need a spin doctor if "the truth needs to come out"?

I expect to get shot down, but I don't necessarily agree with the idea that players like those listed above would be the answer to our problems. Put them into our team and allow them to approach the game with the same level of desire and commitment that we seem to have asked of all our current players and they will probably slip down the similar levels of performance (e.g. will make good contributions when things are going well and disappear when the going gets tough). Not saying they are not good players, and if our club was within a bulls roar of being a professional sporting outfit then these types of guys would be awesome additions. There is something stinking and wrong with our football club and until a fundamental change comes over how our players approach the game no number of 'superstars' could turn this ship around. I'll give one glaring example that I see every single week when I go to watch our games. How many times do our players (and I'll single out Aaron Davey as someone who does this often) run towards an opposition player who is about to kick and instead of taking the opportunity to smother the ball they go with a late gentle bump to the body. It is one of the most infuriating things I have ever seen. It happens multiple times each week and numerous MFC players regularly do it. It is simply a case of being non-competitive. They don't seem to be desperate to win. Why does it keep happening every week? Have any of the other players pulled these guys aside at a quarter time huddle and asked 'WTF are you doing? Why the f didn't you smother that ball? Where is the desperation?'. You watch every other club play and their players look desperate to compete and win their one on one contests, to stop their opponent in any way they can, to gain every metre of advantage and stop every metre of gain for the opposition. Who has been in Lynden Dunn's ear over the last 3 years about his short steps when approaching a contest, or about how he so often makes it look like he's trying to hold his opponent out of a contest while he allows another opposition player to waltz in and take the footy in front of him without so much of a yelp. The coaches need to be onto this but so should the other players. They should be demanding that this stops. It's just non competitive stuff. We cannot possibly have drafted 30 odd players who have have no desire whatsoever to compete. It looks like we have, but it just isn't possible. We have allowed these guys to become like this. They all come in from an under age system where they are trying to get 30 touches or kick 6 goals each week to get noticed. They often don't have the good defensive fundamentals built into them when they arrive in the AFL. We are the worst club at demanding and developing these fundamentals in the league. And we are the worst by a country mile. We have been the worst since I started watching football. 15 years ago you could still win games despite this, based purely on the offensive talent you put out on the park. You can't do that anymore. Opposition teams are too good at the sacrificial/defensive aspects of the game and can stifle your offensive output. Good offense flows out of strong and committed defense. We all love Nathan Jones. I love him because it is clear that he works hard and has improved markedly over the last few years. But he is genuinely almost on his own in terms of that improvement. How is this possible? His improvement curve is equivalent to probably 10 players over the same period at almost every other club. I would have thought it's natural that with time spent in a professional and elite environment that a player should show that kind of improvement. How can he be the only one (or one of few)? It beggars belief. I understand that people will say 'well we need high draft picks to come in and help change these issues'. Unfortunately I think it's too much to expect of young players. If a change to the sacrificial/defensive aspects of the game is not instigated throughout the entire club (and quickly) then we will simply bring in more high draft picks and ruin them too. I recently spoke to a former player who is now involved at another club. He told me how frustrated he gets at the ribbing he cops from the players at this new club about his playing career. He said the players (sort of) kid with him that all games he played for the MFC do not count as AFL matches, because the MFC are a joke and the players never ever play with passion or a will to win. They are seen as a waste of time and an inconvenience to have to play against. And this is a player who didn't move in the last 1 or 2 years, so he departed Melbourne before we embraced the complete shambles that we have become over the last 2 years. How embarrassing to have that sentiment directed towards our football club. I am now gravely concerned for the future of the club. I keep going every week now simply because I want to savor every opportunity to see the red and blue jumper in action. If the current playing group (adjusted for the comings and goings at the end of the season) do not drive the change in what this club is about then I don't think things are going to end well for us. I don't believe the solution lies in adding new talented individuals as much as in a fundamental change in dedication and approach from a group of individuals.

But Chemist Warehouse is keen to jump on. So swings and roundabouts.

I enjoy reading you're posts Ben, more insightful than most and certainly entertaining. But I do think you misread the preseason horribly, singing the praises of Petersen (amongst others) and saying Viney could turn our midfield round quickly. When I suggested that preseason was like dancing with your sister you said perhaps but "she's had a makeover". You call it as you see it but by your own admission you're a blue sky junkie and that, more than personal relationships, leads you to wrong conclusions. I've given up trying to pick players, I'm not much good at it. You and I could point to numerous situations where we've each got it wrong. Come to think of it we could point to numerous situations where the recruiters have got it wrong. I don't remember your initial stance on Neeld but I don't recall it being anything but positive. I called him very early and had one poster stalking me. I also called McLardy and Schwab and was abused from pillar to post. Unlike players I reckon we can have more meaningful opinions of off field performance which is why I concentrate on that area. I think we can have views on the structure of list management so I comment occasionally on that. Neeld was a disaster from day one and there were very clear signs. His first public utterances were to criticise Watts and Davey and go on to say "I don't know the players, I've only just got here". His appointment of joint Captains was a disaster and his alienation of the senior players catastrophic. His tenure has put this club back 5 years and ruined the careers of many at our club. McKenzie, like Trengove and Grimes, has been cruelled by a coach with no idea of leadership or game plan. Hopefully the next coach can restore these players to somewhere near their real potential but I reckon for Trenners the horse has bolted which was my fear right at the beginning. The failure of our club to recognize Neeld's inadequacy is the single biggest blunder I can remember it making. And it was evident from the outside very early and blindingly obvious from the inside. Poor old Belly is a hard call by the way. Many clubs expressed interest in him because he had all the physical attributes to be very good but nobody realized he was affected as much as he was from his high incidence of concussion and the brain damage he suffered playing AFL footy. It had a profound effect on this ability to play the game. Thankfully the last I heard he had made very good progress and has overcome most of his issues.

Meanwhile Vlad flies overseas for an "equalization" Junket to the U.S.tomorrow!! What a farce. Equalization...Play each team twice. The End.

Probably full of discarded syringes.

Clever moves, tactics and strategies are all weeing around the edges when the side is utterly dysfunctional.

I think the best option I have seen is to trade pick 2 for a B+ -grade mid + a top 10 pick. Turn it into a couple of good additions rather than taking one of a more or less interchangeable lot of mids in the top of the draft.

Etihad's a toilet, you say? So does that mean I can contest my public urination charge?

I was in utter shock today as it has become clear that we are now deluded to the point where we keep making the same mistakes and are just carefree in making changes to our game plan. Some of our players almost have an attitude of "Oh it's not my fault I'm kicking the ball this way, because the coach told me to do so and I don't care it resulted in a turnover". We continually go wide and continually leak goals. We might have one good long kick out of defence but that never turns into anything. It just doesn't work. Individual brilliance is a thing of the past, barely anything inspiring happens from our players. There's too many players trying to "play their role" and definitely not succeeding. Frawley was an exception today as he was smart in defence. Gawn did a lot and tried hard. McDonald was ok. I don't like the way the players instinctively look backwards and sideways when they get the ball, and it's even more tragic to see Toumpas doing that in defence at such a young age. Nathan Jones is always one of our best, but he has sort of stayed at one level this year and has quite reached the heights of last year and fluctuates in form and effort during games and can't seem to dominate like he used to. Davey's disposal was horrid. Watts started poorly and never stayed poor, the fact he went back so early showed how defeated we were. Dawes and Fitzpatrick don't demand the ball enough or not enough players want to kick it to them. Howe is sometimes a bit of a lost cause and seems to not hold a position. Viney had a disappointing game. Blease had 4 possessions and one Blease moment in the game, or two if you count the last one where he dashed backwards and turned it over. And finally, Grimes needs to get out of the midfield and become that defender he was earlier in his career. He seemed to be on the ball all day yet had 9 disposals and not one memorable moment. I don't think he's ever had a great game as a midfielder, to be honest. I think we could far benefit with him taking marks inside defensive 50 as opposed to Toumpas, Dunn or Clisby.

It was very interesting to watch the two midfields, and seeing the contrast just reinforces the fact that we need a new midfield coach. It's not simply a matter of not having the players, it's the patterns they work off. North's mids run angles, they do quick reversals and changes of direction and generally turn our mids inside-out trying to figure out where the ball is going. Ours on the other hand have two plays, both of which appear to have come directly from the pages of Midfield Coaching for Dummies, and which the Roos not only were able to read but often got to the end of the move before we did. We are not drilling them in the correct running patterns and it is this as much as the skill level of the players that is killing our ability to work in traffic. Sorry Brian Royal, I know you've been at the club forever, but it's time to admit you aren't a coaches armpit and take a desk job. Our forwards were largely stationary for much of the game. I and others have wondered why it is that we seem to have to scrap for every goal while other teams run the ball down, hit up an uncontested mark and nail the easy goal. It really does seem to be a lack of movement which is inexcusable for such a mobile group. I'm not sure if this stems from poor coaching in that they are not being told to keep moving and working to make space for each other, or if it's a lack of confidence in their teammates. It seems that when we have the ball our forwards simply stand and wait to see where the kick will go rather than moving to create an opening for the ball-carrier to kick to. On the few occasions where we actually did have good movement we were able to score with relative ease. It killed me today to see the constant lateral and backwards movement of the ball. I have no doubt that this was in part a contributor to the above lack of forward movement, but it also hurt us in other ways. A number of times we could have put the ball deep into attack and instead tried to spot up short chips and messed it up. The constant crossing through the defensive 50 caused turnover goals repeatedly as well. I just can't see a scenario where this sort of play is actually going to be productive. To me it screams of self-preservation by both players and coach as they attempt to boost their numbers. I don't like seeing them kick mindlessly forwards, but when the opportunity comes to put the ball in a scoring position they have to have the confidence to take it. So what we can draw from the above is that there are some massive fundamental flaws in the side that go far deeper than just "we need some decent mids." A lot of it is due to coaching that is not just poor but ultimately inept, and a massive lack of confidence and trust within the playing group. I have a sneaking suspicion that a new coach and a couple of experienced mids won't be enough to fix this. I also had a damn nice sausage in a bun. Much better food outlets than the MCG. Our tall backs were our best players today. Sadly it was like trying to stop a tsunami with sandbags. Our forwards were sadly stationary and not providing mobile targets for most of the game. Oh, forgot one thing: Sack The Coach!!!!!

Ah no. For starters it was 13 years ago. Different coaches, players and administrators. Thats just drawing at a very long bow

It is fairly obvious that this draft/trading period is absolutely critical to the future of the MFC, it is even more obvious that we urgently need high quality midfielders. When I look at our list on paper I feel relatively content with the forward and backline stocks, we are all looking forward to a Clark, Dawes, Hogan and Howe setup and Garland and Frawley are top line defenders with McDonald having a chance to join them if he can fix some deficiencies in his game. Without a midfield however they don't have a chance - the backline is under constant pressure and the forward line doesn't get a look in, if the midfield issue is addressed and soon, could we dream that the rest of it could come together more quickly than many would think? Probably this is just MFC supporter hope but this is all we have in times like these. On the basis of the above we need to be super aggressive in addressing this midfield problem and our main bargaining power to do this (along with a potential PP and salary cap room) is pick 2. Now is not the time for our hopes to be pinned once again to an 18 year old high draft pick who we have to wait to develop into a quality player - we need experienced and quality mids right now and the club needs to move heaven and earth to get them including trading away pick 2. The Melbourne faithful have been sold hope for years and the draft has been the most exciting time of the season for many but if insipid performance like today continue the future of the club will be put in serious jeopardy, one only has to look at the effect of this years on field performance on the bottom line to see this. So please football department, do not even consider which 18 year old might be on offer at pick 2, get aggressive and get the best midfielder(s) that can give the club the immediate boost that is needed.

It would be good for people to list who they think we can land with pick 2. Realistically we would be paying serious overs for a player not worth it. There is no maturing quality mid with go home factor. Even if there was looking at the interstate sides the only ones worth pick 2 would be Dangerfield, Hanneberry and Kennedy. To my knowledge there is no out of contract star we can entice with money that isn't already available via FA except for Martin and then you would attempt that through the preseason draft. If we end up with a priority or pick one through our own incompetence then maybe something extraordinary will fall our way when clubs egos get involved over Boyd. Use the high end picks to secure quality kids (just get it right) but trade 2nd and 3rd round or players to fix the gaping midfield hole in our list.

The club will not be able to trade our first pick for a ready made mid no one will want to come, the club tried to trade our pick 3 last year for dawes and wellinigham, wellngham did not want to come , who would want to come to the mfc. I used to laugh at Richmond with all their high draft picks that were dudfuss, we are the new Richmond, the last time they played finals was 2001, so it's going to take the MFC another 5 years to get to Richmond's level.

I like your etc Would put most of the team in there

yes they share the Sgt Schulz award !!!!!

What about the very real possibility of having Pick # 1

Here is what's happened after each Darwin game. 2013 - 122 point loss to North Melbourne. 40 scoring shots to 8. Disposals: 439-290. Inside 50s: 66-30 2012 - 54 point loss to North Melbourne. 32 scoring shots to 18. Disposals: 429-337. Inside 50s: 62-37. 2011 - 54 point loss to Hawthorn. 32 scoring shots to 18. Disposals: 409-298. Inside 50s: 59-39. 2010 - 54 point loss to Geelong. 31 scoring shots to 17. Disposals: 434-328. Inside 50s: 57-37. Aside from the amazing coincidence of three consecutive 54 point margins, each year we've been uncompetitive, unable to get the ball. We need the money, but is Darwin worth it?

No way in hell do we drop Dunn after that game, he was close to BOG for us today (not that that says much after a showing like that). He had one disastrous clanger wehn he went across goal and hit a North player on the chest, but aside from that his field kicking was very good today and he smashed his opponent. Pedersen has to go. I don't care if we need to pay him out on his three year contract, he is a disgrace. Didn't win a 1-1 once today, was consistently led to the ball and I'm pretty sure he didn't nail a spoil all game either. 13 uncontested possessions and 10 uncontested marks sun him up as a player. Happy to take the freebies but can't contest. Davey had the defensive impact of a wet feather. He floated around in space while his man ran away and created overlaps all day. Created nothing, didn't give us anything in attack or defence. Inexcusable for a senior player. We can also pick and choose between a number of players who refused to put their body into the contests today and/or tried to float around the outside while someone else did the work. Watts, Howe. Davey (again), Blease and M Jones were all guilty. Watts at least pulled his finger out as the game went on. The others not so much. Outs: Pedersen, Davey, Kent, ? Ins: Davis, Strauss, Garland, Terlich Taggert would be a great pick as emergency and half a chance to come in. He's performed well for a few weeks although dominating the Casey reserves doesn't really count. I'm just not sure we can fit him in given who is due to come back. A little harsh on Kent, but he needs to get his mojo back. Seems to have lost a bit of zip and confidence.

How do you think teams get bad? Have a sit down and think it through, you will have an epiphany. Teams become awful because they fail to get their picks right or trade away their picks. All teams bring their awfulness on themselves. And we have an avenue to regulate the league and improve a team that is so terrible it is an impediment to the league. It is called draft assistance, and we should get it.

I would have like the roof closed though, that is the only benefit to the ground, instead we had to put up with the wind tunnel effect for half the game. At least at the G you don't get that freezing wind coming out of docklands!

Yeah, I am not surprised by this result. For those that are struggling to see how 22 blokes can be so dominated by another 22 blokes - it is not just a coach. It's inertia. The feeling that attempting something will be met by failure so the attempt is affected or not even bothered with. You won't run past a contest to receive a handball because you know, you just know, that your teammate won't get the ball and you are more worried about making sure your man doesn't get the footy. So you don't attack. And then, when the ball comes out of the contest, only one team is setup to win it. And they do, and they win the next one too. You don't run. You don't trust your teammate to get the ball in a one-on-one, so you get in and 'help' and the other team has an immediate advantage with a release player created. You become inert. And you get thumped.

I reckon you had a shocker of a pre-season on and off the field. I hope next year is better.

This is way worse than our tanking mate, considering their evidence was bloody shaky on us. The Bombers are guilty looking down the Barrell of WADA. They cannot go easy on them otherwise clubs will take the risk in future. The Bombers must be hammered for this. I have a tiny bit of sympathy for the players, but absolutely none for the club. "Make sure he gets the real good stuff this week" James Hird text to Dank. They knew what was going on...

I am really looking forward to the end of the season for the 7 year in a row. Very disappointing. I look forward to a season where I am NOT wanting it to end after round 2 or 3

What can you say? Grimes was particularly [censored]. Probably the most overrated MFC player in the 21st century.

No its trying to find an excuse for a woeful performance and IMO it doesn't stack up. if you are saying that they should have perhaps considered some young fresh legs from Casey, might be prepared to consider that.

It's not common sense to lose by 120 points. End of story.

Oh Jesse, you are a glimmer of hope, a nugget of pure gold floating in a puddle of horse crap. Please stay awesome forever and don't let Melbourne infect you with incompetency. It's contagious!

That would sum up the year for you wouldn't it?I'm surprised when seasoned footy supporters build up draft picks in preseason only to be disappointed when 18yo fail to dominate in adult competition. I doubt this year will be any different. I reckon if you'd read Abletts crits in his first few years they would have expressed the same views. Give the kids a chance.