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Why do you need to add the words " with the intention of gaining the best draft picks"? There is no offence of in the AFL rules that I know of in not performing to get high draft picks.There is of course an offence in not performing on your merits by Coaches and Players, whatever that means, but it applies without the rider of" gaining high draft picks" Given that the AFL and many of us here have repeated countless times, that it is ok not to pick your best side, best positions, remove players from the ground, etc, etc, etc under list management principles, what is the relevance of the reason for doing it? If it is an offence, it is an offence no matter what your reason for doing it. Given and I hate to mention again other clubs, as Ben Hur will descend upon me, have done what we are alleged to have done and every other club has list managed when it suited them, why is the reason for doing it of any consequence? Now I concede that maybe 36 years as a Barrister has clouded my thinking, or maybe an even longer time as a fanatical Dees fan has, but I would just love to be at the coalface arguing this, as while I think we did what others did, this persecution 3 years after the events and after a previous investigation cleared us, based solely on the statement of a disgruntled ratbag former player, stinks.

Little article in the Sun on us this morning about the tanking investigation. We will very soon know the outcome of the AFL's view on the report. With the Essendon and drugs dramas holding centre stage and with inquiries taking off everywhere, about the Bombers and drugs, the Bombers and their handling of players, the Cats ( at a time when they won 2 flags), the Lions etc and new procedures being investigated and adopted, it is interesting that the latest articles keep mentioning how we will fight this to the death. It just makes you wonder if the AFL see our issue as a distraction to more pressing issues. That may or may not help us I don't know, but I just can't see the AFL wanting to open up a whole new front to deal with, if we go to Court and then involve other clubs. It would just be a nightmare for the AFL and a terrific strain on their resources. If CC was truly at AFL house all day, one day this week, that may lead to a deal, ending the saga, without a finding of cheating. Then again the AFL may throw the book at us and say damn the consequences, though personally I can't see that happening. I spoke to a senior footy journo yesterday and he said that he had absolutely no idea what would happen or how the latest dramas would affect us. He was familiar with the views expressed on Demonland and personally expressed sympathy for our position.He asked my opinion, if I thought we would go all the way if corruption was found against us by the AFL and I told him that if we wanted to continue as a proud club, that was the only choice and given the effect on our income streams and our standing in the community and our history, we would be forced to defend ourselves to our last dollar.

quote name="CBDees" post="694877" timestamp="1360356812"] Probably because they mixed the two of them up.

Would people pleaaaaase stop replying to MJT - it's making a mockery of my ignore function!

I can't understand why everyone is yabbering on about WADA, SHMADA, ASADA and SHMASDA - they all mean nothing. We've all seen, heard and read that Bomber coach James Hird has looked grim and ashen faced and, as the wise heads in the media tell us, that is enough to establish a person's guilt. On that basis Essendon surely must be guilty and the investigation is justified. Heads will roll!

That's the problem isn't it. The AFL have cherry picked a case and club to make and example of; they've seen us as the lame animal falling of the back of the herd and have gone after us to feed the masses and to warn other clubs that they are in charge. They didn't go after one of the "Cash Cow" clubs because it would cost them too much in lost revenue, we on the other hand don't make them any money anyway. Some on here just don't get it; we are not saying that others did it so why can't we, what we are saying is that if you are going to do something do it fully and once and for all. If you are going to look in to the tanking issue do it properly, as I said don't cherry pick the weakest, show some semblance of fairness and treat all partners in the competition equally. The AFL have never acted even handedly and they have a tendency to weaken the already weak so they can manipulate them when they want; we get used to fill the gaps and the weaker we are the more gaps they will use us ti fill. We have lost a huge amount over this, our members will wait to re sign, our sponsors will be wary, our "Brand" has been trashed and out administrators have had to waste their valuable time arguing this instead of courting sponsors. What we have done is no different to what other clubs have done and if they aren't being charged why are we; as for the idea of the "Sacrificial Lamb"; forget it. Remember other clubs former players Coaches etc. have made similar comments to McLean so why are we being singled out?

No that evidence doesn't hold up by itself. Also no I am not affronted by our "evidence" whatever" it is , I am affronted that we are being investigated after being previously cleared, 3 years later, on the say so of a disgruntled former player.

Having read Redleg's clear analysis I am convinced we can only be charged with bringing the game into disrepute. Presumably this would be based some of the things we have supposedly done (eg. CC's jokes) and the amazing guff that has appeared in the media (fumbling, Watts etc). The former would not have been public if not for this drawn-out investigation and the later would probably never have been publicaly raised if not for the investigation. So the only people who have brought the game into disrepute are the people who started and ran the investigation. Before this investigation, the 'tanking' actions of the MFC had brought the game into disrepute no more than that of the other clubs who had 'tanked' in the public's mind. (That is true regardless of how provable each case is.)

There we go again on the accepted AFL definition of tanking, the players doing their best "on the field". Despite 186 and other poor performances "on the field" over many years, we are not being investigated for that but rather performance "off the field", which the AFL has said is not tanking. Yes, I know what you were getting at, but again it is the basis of wrongdoing being established/proved, that is at the heart of this whole sorry saga.

This is merely a guess, but I'd say the cessation of BetEzy's sponsorship was a club decision based on social responsibility. I find it very difficult to believe a betting agency would have ceased their sponsorship of the club based it being detrimental to their image by association. Or do you think that GAMBLING has a wholesome image to protect?

they were an off the cuff joke. Dumb is to give any weight to it.How mank kilos shall I put you down for .?

Extinct? I didn't know that Demonland is definitely better than Wikipedia LOL

There are better websites for getting it up.

Melbourne and many other teams (including Carlton over a three year period) list managed and selected their teams and placed their players without having a great amount of regard for the outcome of games. Carlton took Fevola off the ground against Collingwood for long periods of time when he was "on fire" and would have won the game for them had he stayed on the ground. The Blues led Essendon by 5 goals at half time at the MCG, changed what was a winning combination and fell apart and lost and in the Kreuzer Cup nobody tagged Travis on his way to a career high 42 (dangerous) possessions. They went wide and to the flanks way to often that day. Everyone knew what was going on and a fat, overweight and unfit Whitnall was a joke at FF while Fev was hospitalised a month early to keep him out of this game in particular. The Blues were boasting about how smart they were at the time. Collingwood lost eight in a row at the end of 2005 and put in some shockers courtesy of some deft list management. I remember turning the TV off during a Friday night game when they were so obviously trying not to win that I couldn't watch any more. I don't expect any of that to be investigated the way they did with our game at Manuka when our players tried their guts out against the Swans. They were undermanned, were never going to win. Once you allow what the AFL did when Freo dropped half its team for a meaningless final round game, intention and morality aren't relevant. The AFL set the precedent and they should take responsibility for the tanking controversy.

Brock, the man who accused someone's mother of giving him AIDS, the AFL's star witness in it's seven month tanking fiasco, who does wheelies in his ute in private school car park, who was mates of a former gangster and went to his funeral was leaving Crown Casino at 3.00am at the same time as a bunch of crooks and doesn't remember it? Why am I not surprised?

Perhaps he can't remember because he was "tanked" at the time?

Oh the sweet, sweet sound of ten thousand microwaves whirring to life.

Ding and I were there today.He is cropping some pics before we post them on 'Ology Gawn doing run throughs at a fair pace in the rehab group, that also contained Trenners, Tapscott. Dawes stayed behind with them after the others left to head back to Bubbledome, to put their running shoes on. We both fell in man-love with Player number 1, wow does he have great size for a 17 year old, and he moves so well. I was surprised by his pace off the mark, and agility Viney looks like he has been there for years, and was constantly throwing himself under a pack. Smart money for rising star. Ding made the comment that Dawes looks like an "outsider", but I didnt notice that. Toumpas doesnt like the sun, and trained in a MFC cap. Was being tagged by Dunn in the match simulation. The first match sim was just ball movement, spread, and kicking to the spread. No defensive pressure as such. It then progressed to physical pressure, although I would expect to see them go harder come rd1. The talk/encouragement was fantastic, and at a level that I have never seen at a training session before. A few of the boys called for Blease, when he headed to the tent after warmup, instead of participating in the rest of training. He was pointing to his lower right leg, and received a number of rubdowns in the tent, but didnt seem too worried about it. We spent more time looking through the lense, than at the play, and cant tell you much, but if you have a question, shoot. faulty

Enjoy. Game Day NAB 3 : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/Game-Day-NAB-3/28357597_CxgFXt ________________________________________________________________________ 08/3/2013 Gosch's Paddock : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Training-goshs-paddock-08-03/28334563_kFSpkm ________________________________________________________________________ 08/03/2013 Gosch’s Paddock: http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/MFC-Training-Scratch-Match/28017196_ZNV9H7 ________________________________________________________________________ Sponsors on the strip => http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/27976940_WDtpsP ________________________________________________________________________ Friday in close : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/Compilation2/27961225_bTbHLh#!i=2360399846&k=c8DjBtw&lb=1&s=A Eyes on the ball : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/Eye-on-the-ball/27960289_3JN7QN ________________________________________________________________________ 08/02/2013 Gosch’s Paddock : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/MFC-Training-Goschs-Paddock-8/27914371_H2sKNg#!i=2355903684&k=h7426pR&lb=1&s=A ________________________________________________________________________ Nathan Jones in flight ==> http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Jones-in-flight/27911725_Dpc52t#!i=2355670759&k=NsPRSs6&lb=1&s=A ________________________________________________________________________ 7-2-2013 I had a bit of time on my hands last night so I had a bit of fun with the training photos. I’ve compiled a collection of the best from all three training sessions, cropped some to bring the action in a bit closer and added a few new ones that you haven’t seen before. Enjoy Compilation :. http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/Compilation/27906712_DrJdTZ#!i=2355192712&k=xBfZLSr&lb=1&s=A ________________________________________________________________________ 04/02/2013 Gosch’s Paddock : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Other/MFC-Training-Goschs-Paddack-4/27856441_ZZV58P#!i=2350089315&k=Vz2h9RJ&lb=1&s=A 01/02/2013 Linton Street Moorabbin : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/MFC-Training-1-02-2013/27813243_jFbL9F#!i=2346768420&k=dFsLz3d&lb=1&s=A 28/01/2013 Gosch’s Paddock : http://six6six.smugmug.com/Sports/MFC-Training-2013-01-28/27800770_DqggvC#!i=2344500953&k=4dF2pVS&lb=1&s=A

nevertheless make sure you get those alpacas to safe ground. then you can worry about the womenfolk and kiddies

Well carlscum have history of selecting stand up individuals.Eye gouging,chicken wingin brown paper bag types should fit right in.If a problem with booze and biscuits,all the better.

I feel a TISM song coming on.

i love rhetorical questions

And you aren't? Who's side are you on?

No. If the AFL wants to clobber MFC just on the basis of those remarks (as we know them) I'd say fight it in court. If they exonerate MFC and want to rap him over the knuckles for 'inappropriate comments' I'd say that he should put his knuckles out for rapping and we can all have a good laugh about political correctness gone mad. If they want to seriously penalise him for the jokes then I expect he might want to take it to court and I think the club should support him. Your position of saying the MFC will sink because of him is so over the top. If the AFL clobbers the MFC it will be for something more substantial than his jokes. But your posts and question above assumes what CC said will be sufficient to sink the club. That is not credible.

I honestly thought you would be the last person to place any weight on words...

Administered by a nurse, and taken off-site ... of course.

Virtually impossible? I'm not so sure about that. A firm statement saying what Brock said wasn't anything new (compared to what Bailey had said post 186) and it had been investigated and cleared at the time might have defused the press. Of course the media might have kept going with the issue, but we'll never know because the AFL didn't say 'done & dusted and in any case we've dropped he PP rule, so move along'. And I am affronted that once tanking was again investigated, the investigation wasn't widened.

I'll do my best in answering and will go point by point as I don't know how to multi quote answer.Yes I say other clubs list managed as is evidenced by their selections, removal of players from the ground, the securing of in some cases of multiple priority picks, admissions from coaches and players of the practice, sudden improvement the year after list managing and basically observing several clubs do what we did in 2009. Examples, taking a fit Fev off the ground and keeping him off the last 10 mins when a few points up and losing, not selecting Fev against us for a pathetically minor indiscretion, sending players including Fev who has since denied any pressing injury, for surgery, who were not seriously injured and in need of it then and there, Freo sending a reserves side to Tassie against Hawks and getting belted by over 100 points and then the next week in a final, selecting their true side and beating the Hawks, GWS dropping 12 of their best players this year against the GC and losing and winning Whitfield and then bringing those players back the next week when they couldn't win against a superior side, the Pies, Hawks, Saints and others playing reserve sides to gain priority picks, crazy moves from the Carlton bench in 2007 and earlier and especially the last round of 2007 known far and wide as the Kreuzer Cup, need I go on. I would not make what others did the excuse for us, but rather an illustration of the accepted methods of list management, endorsed and approved multiple times by the AFL. In other words if the ruling body says something is ok you are entitled to accept that and act accordingly. I agree with your last point but I think you would have to discuss what went before and since to get to the heart of the matter of what is acceptable list management practice.

As to your first point there very well may be more to the investigation. My questions then are why and what?Bob, again you have used examples of tanking for different purposes. The AFL has never distinguished in their rules this difference. Their rule is, to "play or coach beneath your merits" whatever that is, is a breach of rule 19A. Sloppy rule, sure is, you could drive a truck through it. You are correct in that the ordinary person would condemn tanking for draft picks, but probably not for a premiership improvement in that year. The trouble is both are equally illegal under the AFL rules. What we are left with is an investigation that is centred on a practice that is illegal under the rules, but which according to the ruling body is ok, but now perhaps not, if you are trying to get draft picks, though that is not written anywhere. As a sideline, tanking to improve a premiership chance may involve a drop on the ladder. Guess what, that affects draft picks. Draft tampering in all its glory, but approved by the AFL and the ordinary man. So now lets change the offence to tanking or draft tampering, but with the express purpose of getting a priority pick, which the AFL instigated and has now stopped. We won't charge on an ordinary pick being tampered with, only a priority pick. It's ok to drop down the ladder and get a better pick and draft tamper as long as it's not a priority pick. This in my opinion is Basil Fawlty running the show.

Quick - get out of my way - where do I sign!!! McLardy has already telegraphed that ""We will continue to defend the rights of all our past and present club employees where we believe it is necessary to do so." That caveat is there for a reason and it doesn't say "under any and all circumstances" We don't want to be smeared with a cheating conviction but we also don't want to take the AFL to court - even if we "win". We need a middle way out. If Chris Connolly is required to take a fall for the club, in association with his mismanagement of the process, then there are many ways to soften that fall.

The article says he was intoxicated on the night which is interesting. Does anyone know if he has a problem with alcohol? I'm not suggesting he was Franz Liszt at the time but one would be horrified if he was even a bit tipsy when he appeared on On The Couch. And the AFL launched a 6 month investigation on the strength of words uttered by this person?

Someone will spill the beans. Especially to save themselves. We are almost guaranteed to know what was injected. Might take a bit of time but it will come out. Remembering that the various authorities are calling on people to come forward to reduce their (possible) sentence or liability. One person talks and it will have a snowball effect. All of the people involved will have their own version of the truth. That will most probably create conflict and even contradiction. And that could easily lead to the real truth coming out. There are too many involved for it to all go away. Of course, if nothing illegal was injected then we may not have a problem. (though you would think some of the 'practice's' would have to come under question) A positive drug test is not needed (as we've found out with Armstrong and others) There are various ways to find out. WADA. ASADA and the ACC are not to be trifled with. They will find out.

Woewodin hands back his Charlie? What about Cousins - if he had to hand back his Charlie it would be like that scene from Scarface!

Imagine seeing yourself on the Crimestoppers segment on the news and saying "When the f$&@k did that happen!!" Hilarious. A film was made on that subject. Called "The Hangover" Excellent star witness. The Fink will slice him up just right if the AFL proceed with charges.

No, Bailey said "I had no hesitation at all in the first two years of ensuring this club was well placed for draft picks", that could mean that he delisted a lot of players to ensure Melbourne had a high quantity of draft picks, not necessarily quality of picks.

And give it to Carlton?? Scylla and Charybdis

I can see the announcement coming on Thursday with a finding of they are satisfied with our response and there's nothing further to answer. That way it's only in the papers for the following day before the first NAB cup matches start and the press go back to covering the footy and the drug issue.

The Vault

Geez this is painful 48 pages and we still have no idea what is going to happen. Just get on with the season ppppllllleeeeaaaaassssseeee

I have been thinking all along that you and jose were the same guy, which one of you is E25?

I was one of many on here last year saying that he's past it however, I would be happy to be proven wrong. Well, it looks like there's a glimmer of hope after all. A dose of confidence and a sound base of fitness might just turn it around for Flash this year. The scope for improvement across the whole team is now truly tangible. Some good character being shown by Aaron thus far.

I'm not a huge fan, but there's no doubt he'd add some zip if he was back to his best. More importantly, he's looked good recently at training and it's nice to see that the form some have commented on at training has translated onto the field. If we have that type of across the board improvement we'll be better than many think. I see no reason why Davey isn't somewhat of a barometer for the group.

how can making a joke (even if lame) in PRIVATE be considered bringing the game in disrepute? computer says no

They just asked chris yarran who has impressed him the most and he said Aaron Davey. said he has been a massive influence and was shocked he didn't get the captaincy as he put his hand up. and he is right Aaron should have been made captain tonight. playing well also. But good to hear he got a massive pump up by Chris Yarran. Said he hopes he does real well for the demons this year and is looking very fit! Its also fair to say that Aaron has ticked most boxes this pre season and is doing real well!

I agree. I dont care reading similar things each session, as long as they are really happening.

3 possible outcomes 1: An 'agreed' settlement where both the club and the AFL walk away with their dignity intact (avoiding any sort of court action) 2: There are a number of charges against either the club and/or individuals (in which case we most probably end up in court if we take McLardy at his word) 3: No charges to answer. All 3 options are quite feasible and at this stage we've no real idea which way it will go. The PED issue and the organised crime issue etc may or may not help us. That major development could have the effect of making our issue quite trivial or it may make the AFL punish us because of the whole integrity thing (in their eyes) If news breaks that the Essendon list were definitely injected with PED's then I think that helps us. That issue then becomes so big that the AFL would not want the distraction of a protracted court case when they would have much larger fish to fry. This is possibly the reason why it is taking a bit of time for the AFL to make a decision. It's already apparent that our matter is being seen in it's true light (by the general public) Quite trivial compared to the stuff we've been hearing about in the last few days. Vlad has admitted (yesterday) that there has been no match fixing going on or indeed that there aren't any games under investigation (re match fixing) What we know that the AFL have got on us ... 1: A few flippant comments from Connolly. 2: Some fumbling and Watts not getting enough game time in '09 3: Some ramblings from an ex player.(who has since backpeddled from what we hear) 4: Playing certain players in different positions. 5: A worried look on Schwab's face after one particular game. And ...... other trivial stuff along those lines. Still no smoking gun after nearly 7 months. Now, compare the above to the events of the last few days. It pales into insignificance. Edit : Spelling

"You never know when an old calendar might come in handy! Sure it's not 1985 right now, but who knows what tomorrow will bring?” —Homer Simpson ("Bart Gets an Elephant")

Because most of their members don't have work or school on a Monday morning.

I'll tell you one thing. If Flash continues his injury free run and starts to hit his straps early in the season and gets back to somewhere near his exhilarating best, it will give a massive lift to this team. A seriously massive lift. Davey balking blokes on the MCC flank and delivering laser passes to Clark and Dawesy coming out of the goalsquare will get the G rocking again, no doubt about it.