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Some people here should give it a break. Whatever one might think about his coaching, Dean Bailey gave his all for the club and put its interests over and above his own. He has a lot more class than some of the whiners who would attack him. The inquisition has been an insult to the club and the people involved because we clearly followed the appropriate guidelines and did exactly what other clubs (none of who have been investigated or interrogated) have done before us. We've been discriminated against in a disgusting way and if anybody's integrity is open to question over this saga then it has to be that of the AFL.

If there is breaking news on a topic that inhabits an existing long thread I think there is value in it being posted in a new thread. Some readers may have given up following the often repetitive posts in the original thread and may miss the new development. The trick is to avoid the 'breaking news' thread from becoming a new place to post on the topic (or even to stop it becoming a place to post opinions about thread management...)

Got there 40 minutes late. The following is not in order of what I saw. I'm just compiling this as I go. Talk was good. Much more than the last time I watched training and that was late November in 2011. Mark Neeld not present. (I couldn't spot him) As I walked to the oval, on the rugby pitch Watts, Dunn, Grimes, Taggert and Dawes were doing interval sprints the length of the field. Jamar, Clisby and Toumpas ran laps around them at slow pace. Dunn looks like a true athlete; has definition. Clark sat down with the meds on the boundary line in a moonboot and crutches as expected. Looked happy. Left at about 10:20. Dawes, Gawn (who has bulked up a bit) and Grimes ran laps on Gosch's Paddock at the back end of the session at decent nip. Dawes looks trimmer than last season. The tape on his right knee will be a mainstay as support for his ACL injury early in his career I assume. Aaron Davey looks sharp. Dom Barry has got potential. He moves gracefully and kicks very well. Nathan Jones is easily the best player on the list. Colin Sylvia looks good but seemed like he was giving ¾ or ½ effort throughout. But I did enjoy seeing him teach Matt Jones where to run when the mids were doing a stoppage drill. Good to see him showing some leadership. Speaking of M Jones he moves well and has a decent kick. Lean and tall (a better Gysberts?). Terlich, Stark, Clisby, Viney, Toumpas, Gawn, Taggert and Evans did handballs and short kicking for 20-40 minutes. Evans then joined in the main session doing set shots when this ended. There was a full ground transition drill which occured twice. The ball started 20-30 metres out on the boundary in backline. Kick went to a leading mid from the centre of the ground who then handballed to a running player who switched the ball to the opposite HBF. The next kick was down the line to a spreading mid and the mid then delivered into the fwd line to Pedersen/Tapscott/Byrnes/Davey/Howe/Blease. There were crumbers at some stages (Blease and Byrnes). Ball movement was good but the kick down the line missed the target a little too much for my liking. David Rodan will be a bargain pick up or the club. Great talker and encourager and has still got it from what I saw. Pedersen is a big bloke and should be handy in 2013. Shannon Byrnes is pacy and has a really good nouse for positioning himself for the crumbs but misses a lot of opportunities. During the full ground drill he missed a lot of chances and his set shots aren't the most accurate. He'll get that right I'm sure. And thats all I can remember. I don't take notes when I'm there. On a side note the Dons were there watching the back end of the session and trained after us. I left during their warm up.

I popped along, but didn't watch much of the main group. As I wandered across from Punt Road the first group I came to was Toumpas, Viney, the big Kent, M. Jones. Terlich, Tynan and Jamar. This group of 7 were training separately to the main group on the eastern side of the ground in the forward area. I love watching the new talent so thought I'd plonk myself right there, which was away from the main group and nearly all other spectators. They did various drills, which included sidestepping and getting around a front on opponent before hitting up a leading target. They'd then rebound to an initial target in the pocket before kicking to a longer flank/wing option. As a follow on from this drill the last recipient of the long ball, who by now was some way from the makeshift (rugby) goal, was encouraged to run and carry, before kicking for goal from 45 metres on the run from a bit of an angle. The two standouts for me were Viney and Toumpas. Toumpas' short-passing was brilliant and often congratulated by the recipient. Viney's passing was also pinpoint. He really is a very good 30 metre fast, low and accurate kick. The big Kent is a good kick too, although he was slightly hooking his longer kicks for goal. Tynan is moving well and a big unit. Terlich miscalculated the odd kick. Matt Jones is a nice height and a very good kick, but dropped a couple of marks with hands out in front that he should have taken. It was noticeable that they weren't taken on the chest even though they could have been. Boy, I love Viney and Toumpas. One just looks like a born leader that is going to be a driving force at this club and the other reeks of balance and class. I watched a bit more of the main group, plus the joggers, but don't have too much more to add to the reports already given. Grimes ran lap after lap after lap at a quick clip. Dawes and Gawn separately did the same. As did Clisby and Stark together. I got more glimpses of Barry gliding across the turf and using his really nice left foot. I understand the Long comparisons. If he isn't soft we may have a real talent there. You can spot class a mile away. And I reckon Pedersen has lost his holiday weight. I saw him at his first training session and he was carrying more condition than any other player, but he's moving well and is a nice kick. I reckon Pedersen will be considered a fantastic addition by season's end. Finally, I watched a bit of stoppage work with Fitzpatrick, Viney, N. Jones, Rodan, Magner, Sylvia, and one or two others. It was more positioning and reacting rather than competing, although they were manning up one-on-one, so not as intense as other stoppage work I've seen. Having watched us slaughtered in this area over recent years I hope we make some much needed inroads. Viney has great hands and a low centre of gravity. I don't care if other supporters think I'm being unrealistic, or placing too much pressure on a young kid, I'm not, it's simply my belief that he'll rival Jones as our best mid in his first year. By year's end he'll certainly have no-one other than Jones ahead of him. We're getting a ready made quality addition here. Toumpas adds the outside class, and will be a darling of the Melbourne faithful.

I will not count chickens before they have hatched nor am I the sort of person who would gloat or throw back opinions and statements into someones face who got it wrong but if we are cleared of any wrongdoing I hereby promise to be very vindictive and send an email to Caroline Wilson and Greg Denham.

I had a quick look too and a few things that stood out to me: I love how tight Jack Viney and Jimmy Toumpas are, thick as thieves and really took charge in a few of the handball drills. You Can see Toumpas naturally takes charge of the younger blokes in a really good way. They did some stoppage work and Dom Barry was ultra impressive. He was in everything, very clean and NEVER misses a target. Pencil thin as we all know and I can't see him ever getting a whole lot bigger but has some serious class about him. I've been reading some of the reports about Sylvia and have to say I was pleasantly surprised. I thought he looked fit, sharp and there's no doubt about it, he's the cleanest player on the list IMO. Jamar, Pederson, Spencer and Fitzpatrick did some contested marking work close to where I was standing. Spencer was the standout for mine, plucking everything. His kick still looks as though he will be a compulsory handball to a runner type his whole career. The feeling in the group pleased me more than anything. No doubt they were up and about being the last session before Christmas but it just seemed like they were loving being there, a really tight group and were up for the challenge ahead. Plenty of talk, encouragement of one another and a positive vibe throughout.

Good turnout from the Demon supporters to watch the final session. Much more so than Collingwood who were on the oval before us, and Essendon who followed. We didn't have use of the main ground, as Victory were using it. Not much really to report as things seemed to be a little less intense than previous sessions and there would have to have been some respite after Darwin. Points: * a player reported that for the Darwin sessions 7 minutes was the maximum allowed before rehydrating/cooling down. That surely puts a lot more stress and requirements than poncing around in Arizona! * the players were put through a series of shuttle runs AFTER running a couple of laps of the oval, and some serious sprint and warm-ups.. Standouts were Gillies and Davis? Special mention to Spencer and Fitzpatrick who were still around near the end. * Grimes running laps. Fairly freely and getting lots of encouragement from the rest of the team as he passed by on each lap. Hamstring and quad recovery apparently. * Watts, Gawn, Dawes, Dunn, Nicholson on another oval in rehab. * Clark back in moon boot, but probably to protect the foot after removing the staples this week. Also has lost his beard. * Howe trying to sell his car, after winning a new Toyota for mark of the year. Said he needed a new one ... looking forward to next year's model as well ... * a few rucking/clearance exercises to finish, but nothing as stenuous as what Misson is putting them through. * another player reported that the work rate is up 30% on last year. Given that was up 30% on the previous, it should show in the fitness levels in 2013 OR we were REALLY bad when Misson first arrived.

The MFC certainly do need to get out of this mess, but it isn't necessarily terminal for the club whatever happens. If it doesn't just all blow over, in the worst case scenario there will be blame laid against certain culprits, and the MFC may perhaps for a year or two or three not be able to add more young players to their young list. Any identified culprits either already are or else very soon would be no longer employed at the MFC. I reckon we'd probably survive such a punishment, building a strong culture with our backs to the wall, out of our already talented list, and with excellent coaching/development staff; and if we did survive such punishment, at the end of the punishment the odium of having done wrong would be over. It's not as though we gained any advantage from our sins... The AFL also needs to get out of this mess - but unlike the clearly known pain ahead for a punished MFC, there can be no measurement of the pain to come for the AFL: if they can't make it all blow over they will find extricating themselves to be far more complicated - and damaging - than it would be for the MFC. In the worst case scenario the AFL would hand down an adverse finding against the MFC, only to immediately lose all further control of what could then become a very protracted and expanding nightmare. They have already been alerted to the likelihood of the MFC defending themselves in the Supreme Court, and once the matter moves into the Court it is out of the AFL's control. Both the Court and the media would then own what happens next. If the AFL were to win against the MFC in the Supreme Court, it is likely the win would be at the price of sections of the media demanding other clubs be also investigated and punished. Plus the Supreme Court would have given a clear statement about its reasoning, thus defining what constitutes transgression on the rule. The MFC would very likely be depicted in the media as a martyr to tyrannical and arbitrary league management that was firstly unable to frame its rules clearly enough and then for years brushed aside public discussion of the problems created by those rules, only to finally (in response to media pressure form clearly agenda-driven commentators) crash down punitively on one struggling easy-target club. This would inevitably be seen as a justice issue, and it goes to the heart of the governance of the AFL - it is a story that would be likely to gather a lot of support for the bullied underdog MFC. Could the AFL afford to brazen it out, "above the law" and suddenly impervious again to media pressure? - and retain "good repute"? For as long as the AFL management issue continued in the public eye, "the integrity of the game" would continue to be eroded by issues such as a) one team after another being identified as having not been trying, B) poor administration and governance of the rules and the competition generally, c) Demetriou's personal backflips and exposed inconsistencies; and the back page leads would feast on muck-raking over the past alongside the ongoing critique of the AFL management generally and Demetriou in particular for carrying out their responsibility so poorly, bringing down the League's reputation. Fans would be seriously disillusioned, and you could imagine there would be some home truths spelled out from the bench. In other words, the MFC may be in the mire at the moment, but nothing compared to where the AFL is. They are at risk of more damage than the MFC, all because - this must be the key point in the whole mess - under Anderson's leadership, Brock McLean and Caroline Wilson were allowed to set the AFL's agenda. Anderson's gone, thank goodness. It now has to be damage control for the AFL. As a natter of urgency, the AFL must find a way to credibly cancel their endorsement of McLean's and Wilson's agendas. The AFL needs to clarify their rules, and close ranks with maximum gravitas. Is there a way to sell the belief that no cat did get out of the bag? That's the AFL's real need now. They may have their faults, but everyone loses if the AFL loses control over its affairs.

For me this investigation goes beyond just the mere allegation of whether we tanked or not. To be honest I couldn't give a fats rats clacker if we did or didn't, at the end of the day it's all just semantics. The fact is the club is under siege and for once must stand resolute in it's defence of all and sundry. As I see it, this is the line in the sand that could define what the MFC actually stands for. This is our opportunity to make a statement to the football world. I know many of you will laugh at this but I see this as a positive opportunity for the club and not a negative. An opportunity that will allow us to redefine ourselves within the AFL landscape. An opportunity to show that we as a football club will no longer be the patsy of the AFL and will fight for whats right for the MFC FIRST AND FOREVER

I think you are right with the intensity being down a bit but still a solid session. Post Darwin pre Christmas, I would expect the intensity to be up significantly towards the end of January. Nicholson went in early with Garland, they did some light work before the main group started. He wasn't with the rehab group. Grimes was with that group before moving on to the main oval to run some lap times as did Dawes. A few things I noticed were Toumpas gets around and gets involved, he's creating a positive presence. Dawes is a big unit and was working up some good pace in his run throughs, will be a handful in the coming season. Barry is an athlete with great skills, will be interesting to watch in match conditions. Davey is working into training, moving and kicking well. Evans looks in great shape and hopefully gets a clear run at it. Tommy Mc has been working on his kicking (ball drop) but will still be a work in progress, be interesting to watch when under pressure on match day to see if he can keep his technique. Sammy Blease still has a bit of work to do on the tank but his is doing it and getting support to keep at it, he has the right attitude (and ability) and that's why he is still there and others have been moved on.

I've just finished reading Neeldys Darwin bullish article, wow. I'm so impressed by the man and his staff, he has taken our club by the scruff off the neck and demanded a change to become a professional outfit, and IT'S happening, no bshit, just do it or out you go. These two statements from the article say it all for me. "The formula is no secret. A core group of existing players were identified during 2012 that could take the club forward. Added to that core was a set of players with experience and willing to lead, A-grade juniors with a work ethic to match their talent and a set of mature-agers with the capacity to train and play hard." "The coach does not finish the sentence, distracted for a second, but it's obvious the group is trying to create a culture that sets no limits, makes no excuses and tolerates no complaining." I for one just want improvement from the horrors of previous years, and i reckon we might finally b on the right bus with Mr Neeld and his staff, no great expectations yet, as he said, "Our plans go longer than one year because they need to," We as supporters are really being kept in mind by this crew with a real fresh honesty about the place and I'm just loving it, even the reports from our own Dlanders must not go unmentioned, thanks ppl. I was an 8 yr old in 64 and was at the G that day, I really can't remember how the club was run then but we had success,( we sacked THE FOX so it couldn't have been great), now we have a professionalism with honesty and accountability, hopefully the success returns with the new breed. I'm ready to come outta the dirty rotten trench and fight hand to hand with the bastards Mr Neeld. Have a good break all. Go the MIGHTY DEE's, stick it up em.

Great reports guys, also nice to hear a lot more support for the boys.Even better. if we had more there than the filth. I would have got down there, but I'm in the bunker with my 2 pallets of popcorn. One wall is taken up with a 10'x8' of Robbie, anyone know what time the world ends?? I need to set my alarm so I dont sleep through it. This mayan farce may turn out to be about as accurate as kero wilsons reports. Like her they will back track a bit and have a 2nd & 3rd punt on getting it right. Whats the bet, the world ends the day before the finals, when we are red hot favourites for our 13th flag.

OK so another 'no news' article in the small paper by that doyen of footy writers Jay Clark says that the rule we would be likely to have transgressed is the following: "A person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match - or in relation to any aspect of the match, for any reason whatsoever.'' - AFL Regulations 19(A5) We have the Captain and the COach as well as Brock McLean on the public record saying "we were never told to lose". Players might have been moved to different positions but not 'hey Johnno , go back and play on Nathan Brown but for God's sake don't go near the ball" Unlike Mr Teflon Paul Roos who instructed McVeigh I think it was to "make sure we don't score a goal" in the final quarter of a NAB cup match. Oh yeah but he came out later and said he was joking. And CHris Connolly apparently made a joke but we are somehow different?? Case closed.

Don't like seeing that in writing nor hearing about it being discussed in a club forum. These things can come back to bite you know....

Lets put this in context re the tanking issue. Bailey as Coach could be charged as he fits within the category of person named in Section 19A of the AFL rules. It now appears certain he will deny any wrongdoing. Demetriou has said any person in the category found guilty of tanking will be thrown out of the game forever. Do you see that happening to Bailey? It would therefore appear to get up on a charge under the rule the AFL must find a Coach or player guilty of throwing games. Based on what we know we can discard that happening to a player. It therefore seems that if we are to go down so must Bailey. Bailey through his lawyer stated his innocence and denied any wrongdoing. I don't know what he said to the Inquisitors who Interrogated him, according to his lawyer, rather than interviewed him, but I am happy to assume he has not admitted tanking. What then is the evidence against him? It was suggested that he changed his game style after being directed to lose. His lawyer said he did the same as all other coaches in charge of a team that can't make the finals. Demetriou has also said this numerous times. If he denies tanking what then is the evidence he did? If the AFL persist with this disgraceful witch hunt, while not doing the same to other clubs and with 2 in particular who have had coaches and players admit breaches of the rule, I can see this costing the jobs of more senior AFL staff. I can see a long Court action looming where a Judge admonishes the AFL in its handling of the whole affair. As a result senior people in the AFL would have to go. Remember the clubs appoint the Commission and even it can be sacked. This could blow the lid off the game and do untold damage. As a result I see no charges being laid against the club or any of its officers.

Irrespective of his results whilst at our club Dean Bailey always struck me as a stand up guy. I hope that remains so.

WHAT THE RULES SAY "A person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match - or in relation to any aspect of the match, for any reason whatsoever.'' - AFL Regulations 19(A5) It is hard to see how this rule can be held to account. The terminology of merits is so arbitrary.

What would you know Mr 46 posts!!!

Telling a Demon supporter not to worry is like telling Phil not to eat- both a good idea for our health yet both very unlikely.

Everyone keeps missing the point - we are not on our own here. To sanction us there must be a clear definition of tanking and what actions/circumstances must occur to be able charge us with tanking. If this is taken to court they will not let a charge stand if it is airy fairy non defined.The court will examine - what rule was breached, and how it was breached. If one of the standards we have breached is playing players out of position then you would argue that this practice has been going on for generations (Carlton, WCE etc) and no charges were ever laid - in fact Vlad examined these incidents and said all clear - therefore you would argue on the AFL's ability to retrospectively change a standard and furthermore retrospectively change a standard and yet only charge one club. The only way we can get pinged for tanking is by doing something over and above any other club has previously done - the only thing I have heard reported is Connolly's comments and some interchange rotations - you would hang your hat on these as strong evidence ? Again - I will put in the disclaimer - I havent seen the evidence and am working on what has been reported and it has been reported that there is no smoking gun - only Connolly's comments, dubious player positions, Baileys comments, miffed players and limited rotations.

Awesome - the club absolutely nailed this negotiation. Hats off to Tim Harrington and Todd Viney.

First witness for the MFC, call MR. A. Demetriou to the stand.First question, after thorough investigations 3 years ago, you stated and have continued to do so, that there was no tanking by the MFC, only list management and experimentation, which is an accepted part of AFL football, is that correct sir? Second question, you regard tanking as players throwing a game, is that correct? Third question, do you have any evidence of any player being told to throw a game?

Actually the Mayan's believe that our calendar will finish (we are in the final period - the 13th period), and we will move back to the first period as the calendar is a circle - not linear.Some view this as there will be a 'cleansing' some not. Every religion has some form of a cleansing. The Christians with the rapture, the ancient nords with Ragnarök. All I know is that the Mayans did not know about leap years so this event would have happened a while ago, and why trust a culture which didnt predict their own demise. There are always people who try and predict the worst, Galileo adopted the shotgun approach and wrote a whole book on events. My favourite are finding people on DL who try and do the same and then say I told you so. Like you, I'm more of a my glass is half empty so there is room for scotch type person.

I hope they're just intimating.We don't want to be seen as applying similar Gestapo tactics.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2012-12-21/club-helps-corporal-westwood-raise-funds A very emotion charged article and a job well done by the Club to help out. I'd like to donate something if I knew whether the club was opening an appeal.

Dean Bailey. One of the only people who would go through all that he did and still say this. I always liked DB, what's done is done and I really like MN too. Unlike some recent people on DL I'll never compare the two. Long story short - if I ever see Dean Bailey at a pub I'd buy him a pint... And I'm pretty stingy with my money.

He did what was best for the club and his career suffered because of it. In his final presser he said he put the club in the best position for draft picks. That isn't revelatory or damning - it is what teams do in losing seasons in a draft regulated sport. The sooner the wider football media realise this and get the pole out of their collective rectums the happier the partners of these losers would be at home while having to listen to their inane prattle.

I am sure he has, but i don't think he is going to take the club down. Not his style.

Cheers for that. I'm hoping Santa got me one. If not he will find some pointy objects in my chimney next year.

Bailey's lawyer expressed concerns about how the interrogation was conducted. Denied he coached to lose and played younger players after the club could not reach the 8. He will fight any charges Bodes well for the club Sorry another tanking thread, Mods merge if you think

This simply cant go near a court. The AFL loses even in the very unlikely event it wins ( which it wouldnt i feel) The trigger is the levelling of charges against the MFC. The AFL actually control the outcome currently and dont dare for its own sake lose that ( control) . ergo there will be no charges. irrespective of whatever has actually transpired; good , bad or indifferent you have to start at the desired outcome and work back to see how this will pan out not attempt to speculate on where we are now and work forward.

word on the street. We are in the clear to a large extent. make of it what you will.

I would have thought Wallace and the Tiges would be in trouble here. He has admitted to not performing on his merits and not allowing his side to perform on it's merits by saying he sat back and did nothing so that they could get Cotchin. It's out there in the public arena for all to see, no need for an investigation.

Yes it is a great story something I would like to see in the media but unlikely.

The situation is explained in this article - VFL player Wade Lees cops 18-month ban for importing performance-enhancing drugs I understand the need for authorities to be strict about such matters in order to identify drug cheats in sport and it's clear that Lees was probably careless in ordering such a product in these circumstances but ... the punishment seems excessive particularly in view of the fact he didn't even get the substance or use it and, as he rightly points out, there's little the VFL does in terms of educating its players on these matters. I think it would be punishment enough that he's "served" some time already and spent thousands attempting to clear his name. If I'm not mistaken, Shane Warne was given a lighter penalty when he actually was found to have used a not too dissimilar banned substance and he was an international sportsman who should have known better. Lees is just 24 so presumably was 22 when the "offence" took place. For heaven's sake, this penalty is absolutely outrageous and I hope he appeals and wins his case.

I recieved a warning point because i advocated that someome iron out Brock Mclean on the field afte his comments that got us into this mess. Ill always defend our club against anyone trying to drag us down.

I am so hopeful because Wilson thought she had us in a noose with the info we now know is Sweet F___ All. Unfortunately the greater public don't know that The Secret Tanking Meeting was a simple MC meeting, they don't know that the Code-Named Meeting of The Vault was actually the name of the shack the meeting took place in, and they don't know that the 'threat of people losing their jobs' was far more likely to be CC's idea of dark joke told to at least one person who evidently does not have the best interests of the club or CC's friendship/future in mind. And because of these misconceptions that have not been adequately - in my mind - apologised for or repudiated by Fairfax/Wilson, the wider footy public see these Smoking Guns of Lies and think we're 'humped.' Until I hear/read, and hasn't Wilson been quiet of late, something more I am going to assume that all they have is CC's aside/joke/'threat' and nothing more.

Im still thinking if i was to lay any money on anything to do with all of this is that what we are seeing is the strategy of the AFL to exit from this tar like mess . Of its own creation I might add as not only were the circumstances under which teams existed and effectively competed for draft picks but the recent inquisition is of its own doing. Someone get them some crutches as surely they've shot themselves in both feet now.!! Im sure Vlad doesnt expect to come out smelling of roses from all of this but if they can avoid reeking of a water treatment plant they will consider it a success i reckon. What I think many are missing in all of this is the required posturing of both parties in order for a "believable" outcome of non action to work. if Melbourne said, oh me, oh my, bring on the punishments , please please be kind etc Then all the world will expect a punishment to be given as we've literally asked for one, as well as admitting guilt . If however we get our backs up and say" bring it on , at your peril, we aint taking no [censored] from no one !!" it sets the perception in the publics eye that 1) we dont consider ourselves guilty of anything and 2) the AFl had better be able to prove beyond all reasonable applications that the MFC did anything that warrants a charge. If then the AFL trumpets ot the line that theres no real case to answer etc etc etc, this can hold water. The AFL gets to hold its head up and say rightly all avenues of inquiry are exhausted, no chargable foul committed, lets move on.

'List management' is never against the rules or 'match forfeiting' - it is done before the season starts and all the relevant players (read Bookmakers) have all the information. If you are talking about early surgeries you are on shaky ground and if you are talking about players playing where you don't think they should then you are on quicksand. Tanking is telling players to lose because that is the only thing that can be legislated solely as trying to lose - the intent is the key here. So unless our happy band of idiots explicitly said their intent was to lose, then they have nothing and we should fight any sanction or 'adverse finding.'

and I can still recall the horror and derision at Vineys appointment to recruiting.Where did all the knockers go i wonder ? Lol

Below is a part of an email I received from a opp club recruiter on GWS passing on Toumpas and a couple of comments on the others. I heard separately that GWS tried to draft players that where already friends hoping on the fact that the friends will stick together and stay at GWS together. They drafted a lot of Vic kids. This may be some reason on why they passed on Toumpas and went O'Rourke and Plowman. Also Corr and Jaksch who they took later I know are good mates. "I and many others have no idea why GWS passed on Toumpas and went with O'Rourke. Toumpas is 10 times the footballer. We had Toumpas at 3 and O'Rourke at 8. Toumas is just all class in everything he does. Neat, balanced and composed. And a great kid to boot." Viney was the steal. Just what you needed. Hard as a cats head. I just hope he doesn't get injured to often the way he plays. Kind of a kamikaze Kirren Jack. As for Kent, Jones and Terlich they are much of the same. Hard at it footballers who have a dip. I'm not sure they are world beaters but at leastthey have the right attitude and desire to start with, which is what your Coach wants."

Two points why I vehemently disagree with what you have posted 1/ Everything we have heard to date in my opinion is subjective so if the AFL wants to sanction us on this evidence then you would absolutely take it to court because you would argue ( and in my opinion successfully) that there is doubt. So if there is doubt that can be proven then every court in the land will help us. You are under the illusion that the AFL's idea of solid evidence and a courts idea of solid evidence will be the same. 2/ Unless the AFL comes out and sanctions us and then states clearly that the same standard will be applied against other clubs then there is every use pointing the finger at other clubs. This is not little kid stuff - it is called questioning why accepted practices(accepted in countless statements by Vlad himself) have overnight become unacceptable and are being selectively applied ( note if the AFL decides to sanction us but also decides it will go the likes of Carlton and Fremantle in particular then whilst it hurts - I cant argue because the standard applied to tanking is applied to ALL clubs)

My new favourite term for being fat.

Our decision whether we head to court should depend on what evidence the AFL have and what they intend to do with it. IF solid evidence exists that show beyond doubt that we "list managed" with the main purpose of losing games for better draft picks, then no court in the land will help us. IMO the "new, tough" Melbourne that I hope we now have would be far better served taking their medicine, putting their heads down and working through it. The is no use pointing the finger at other clubs about it like little kids either. The Ox sums up my thoughts exactly Schwarz, who played 173 games with the Dees, fears a heavy sanction could pose a serious threat to the club's future. "I, like anyone, hope it goes away, but something might come of it," Schwarz said. "Whatever it is, you just hope it doesn't hurt or cripple the club. That said, if individuals have done the wrong thing, then they have got to be held accountable." On the other hand IF the leaks so far is all there is (tongue in cheek comments etc etc) then I doubt the AFL will try to pursue it too far any way. There will be a bit of to and fro about it to ensure the case is seen to have run its course then it will be over. FYI - the rule in question is. "A person, being a player, coach or assistant coach, must at all times perform on their merits and must not induce, or encourage, any player, coach or assistant coach not to perform on their merits in any match - or in relation to any aspect of the match, for any reason whatsoever.'' - AFL Regulations 19(A5)

Of course they knew. Kevin Bartlett is the only person in Australia who didn't know. Yet Vlad has been talking it down for years, probably to protect the AFL's image in other areas (eg, gambling/corruption). Then he goes on hols, Anderson launches an investigation, and suddenly, Anderson is not there any more. Not a coincidence, IMO. I don't think the AFL want this to go anywhere, but they're such arbitray and vindictive pr*cks, anything could happen.

Can't stop Wilson and Barrett giving us crap. I assume DZ is intimating that we won't be the AFL's patsy to assuage a pointlessly angry and incredibly stupid football media.

I am against it, they can't kick. Furthermore, name me an irishman who can kick? Other than Stynes, there hasn't been an irishman worth his salt play AFL. This suggests that skills need to be picked up early to really succeed. Nick Nat is an athletic freak, has played the game most his life - and still can't kick. I'd rather us put more time into sourcing young talent within the grassroots of Australia.

I just really want the club to stand up and say NO to anything the AFL tries to throw at them over this. There can't be more damning evidence than that which has been discarded previously when this issue has been raised in relation to other clubs. If the AFL try to have a quiet chat about what we'd be willing to give up to make it go away, the response should be "Not a damn thing." Everything that we have seen in the media has been said previously about other clubs and nothing was ever done. This is nothing more than a witch hunt for a perceived easy target, and we need to stand up and comprehensively disabuse the AFL of that notion.

ACCORDING to some religious prophets, the Ancient Mayan calendar predicts an apocalypse tomorrow — December 21 — when the world will come to an end. For some religious scholars, this marks the Rapture or End of Days, when the faithful will be caught up in the skies and meet their God. Tommorrow — December 21 — the AFL will give the Melbourne Football Club and other interested parties the evidence gained from the "tanking" enquiry. For some religious followers, this marks the Rapture or End of Days, when the AFL will be dragged kicking and screaming to the supreme court. I predict that old Sol will rise on Saturday the 22nd of December and I will go on to enjoy a very merry Christmas with my family and friends. This circus will sort itself out in the fullness of time and no matter how much nashing of teeth or wailing at the wall that we all do, if the asteroid slams into old terra tomorrow there is very little any of us can do about it. Have a wonderful festive season everybody, and if Lucifers Hammer should hit the MFC stick fat with the club because that will be the time that they most need us one and all.

As John Ralph just said on SEN, "there is no smoking gun". They'll table what they believe to be evidence, get Melbourne's response, which will be to deny any allegations, and then the AFL will decide a course of action, if any. I'm very comfortable with where we stand.