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There's another dimension to this discussion that hasn't been touched on here yet and that is the base from which Melbourne will be coming next year. Our 2012 season was littered with one disaster after another both on and off the field. I'm guessing that in 2013 we're not going to have our main forward facing major criminal charges, the death of a president, fiascos with sponsors, the coach being defamed by a liar, an overblown injury list and a small but influential group of players either not interested in or incapable of following the coach's game plan or not possessing the work ethic necessary to get the club to the place to which a professional sporting organisation should aspire. Absent all of those things and suddenly, we start 2013 not as the 16th best side in the competition but perhaps as just outside the top 10, say 12th best. That's the platform from which I see us starting our new campaign and that's not such a difficult proposition. It pushes us ahead of the Bulldogs, Port Adelaide, Brisbane (who I don't rate very highly) and Essendon (who we outperformed in the last half of 2012 anyway). We've added 14 players who make up a third of our list and you can add Michael Evans, Max Gawn and Rory Taggert to that list. They played no part on the field this year and are virtually recruits for next year along with Mitch Clark (fingers crossed) who missed the second half. Granted, some of the new blood will not play a major role but some most certainly will - the newcomers have been well described as eminently coachable and, like BH, I have fairly bullish expectations of Viney and Toumpas who, unlike most of the top 10 draft picks in this year's crop, have played with and against men and done so admirably. The step up in intensity of training has been noticed by many and it will bear fruit in the improvement, particularly of the young talent who remain from the Bailey/BBBP era. What most of these blokes needed was a lesson in what hard work on the track can achieve and, in people like Neeld, Craig and Misson, I believe we have the people to instil the right ethos into the team - Nod to Neil Craig for shaping Adelaide Crows OK, that might sound like a PR job from someone wearing rose coloured glasses and might not directly address Fan's excellent point about our midfield deficiencies of the past but my point is that we have the perfect springboard in place to attack the new season given that the breaks go our way in 2013 instead of against us as they did in 2012.

A few years ago a Korean tourist was saved from being mauled by a crocodile after he had gone swimming 10 metres away from a sign that said "Crocodiles Do Not Swim". When asked why he did it the tourist, who spoke English, said he thought it was safe because the sign said crocodiles do not swim!!! True story.

http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/2012/12/15/315938_ntsport.html'>Top End Trip Toughens Dees

That's it in a nutshell.

I too lost my scarf this year in a newly established end of season ritual...

Why are we still talking about this guy? It's over, he's gone and he never played a game for the senior side. Time to drop the discussion and move on to something relevant.

What happened to this thread??

Good to see he is still getting top recognition over there! Thoughts?

What about - The Vault? Too soon????

My three year old can now sing all of 'Grand Old Flag' and does so regularly without prompting. That's pretty exciting. Considerable work behind my wife's back went into the process of indoctrination.

4/87 at stumps. Thanks for coming.

Yowzah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's interesting that at this time every year there is a fair amount of coveting of next year's draft pool. Some fall by the wayside while others emerge but quite often, as we get closer to the draft, many of the midfielders don't quite measure up. The AFL Prospectus puts out a list of its 25 top prospects for the draft at the beginning of every year. Among the players who made that list but weren't drafted were Dayle Garlett, Matthew Haynes, Todd McKay and Shannon Taylor while a couple of others had to wait for the rookie draft. Making these lists is no guarantee the players in question will have an AFL career.

The combination of Neeld, Craig and Misson is changing the club, and I couldn't be happier. He's been a brilliant get.

So you've never seen steam?

A pair of d's for the dees? I get excited about viney and toumpas, excited about trenners, and I get excited about players competing for a spot rather than getting a run because everyone else played poorly.

You can play with Kim Jong-il. 18 holes-in-one.

A positive article from our point of view. If Craig is installing the same work ehtic into the Dempn list as he did with the Crows, then we are destined to show a marked rise with our re-shaped list. I am sure that Misson, Neeld and Craig are all on the same page! In particular, I cannot see us losing a (home) match in Darwin ever again after this training camp!

The Melbourne Football Club must be applauded for the way they make their supporters feel part of it all. Love the Dees !!!

And Knightmare's effort:- Knightmare selects us to finish 16th again so I'll revisit this thread in a year's time to see who's face is red.

[censored] and [censored][censored] to [censored] the [censored] [censored] me off

Me and my wife, she is good hot, she take good care of my goat

No way would I swim anywhere in the NT except Mataranka hot spring and then they found a croc there one day. After that there were no exceptions.

& I thought you weren't KB...

can someone shoot this thread and put it out of its misery !! pwwwweeeeease

The thing is though stu, some people get excited about unknown quantities like Taggert and Tynan. It's not completely baseless as we've seen glimpses of Tynan that show he could become a very capable footballer. But to a large extent it's unknown what they coud be, or what 2013 could have in store for them. That's exciting.

Some people might know me, I'm kind of a big deal.

Alcohol. Plenty of alcohol.

There can be no argument here, it is subjective.

Bet it doesn't take into effect the nett effect of each line's infuence on each other ie a poor midfield will render a forward line and back line considerably worse etc.

How did Carlton get the 2nd-best forward line rating? They've got Garlett and Betts, plus Waite for a few games a year.

Interesting when you read the article, that Ablett is the top rated midfielder, yet the GC midfield is rated 17th. Some of the ratings seem odd. How does Carlton have the second best forward structure in the game? Yet Sydney has the 11th best? Sometimes the stats are misleading! So the Hawks get to add Brian Lake to their defence and suddenly it's the second best defence in the league, Tippett must have apparently made the Sydney forward structure slide

Pretty much where I'd rank our team "at best" next season. 13th. Which is an improvement - but not a significant improvement as some are expecting. That said, I would like to be surprised with a significant improvement.

I think that, even then, smart clubs were realising that an 18 year old KP player takes 5 years to come on. You take them later, or on the RL, or you overlook them altogether and wait for them to mature outside the system. The fact is - you can't solve all your problems through the draft and that is the sense I got from the club Pre-Neeld. Joel MacDonald was the only experienced player recruited IIRC from the 4 years DB and CC were calling the shots. With Howe, Bail and Nicho being the only 'mature' age recruits (at 20). Neeld and co. have had 2 off-seasons and have brought in Rodan, Byrnes, Sellar, Clark, Pedersen, and Dawes as experienced players with Magner (25), Couch (24), Terlich(22), Jones(25), and Clisby(22) as actual mature age players. I have morphed this response into a larger point but I just feel that Cook, a thin KP prospect, at ND12 was the epitome of the thinking of the club Pre-Neeld. Note: I agree that we should leave the kid alone, but that doesn't mean we can't critique his selection.

So just wondering on what the optimal cook time for my card is, given my microwave is 900W?

Poor Bloke was confusing his importance with his greed.Couldn't happen to a better guy.

Exactly what I am saying w00dy. It amazes me how ppl get very personal about a player not making it at AFL level. Cook did not ask to be drafted by the MFC. He just threw his hat in the draft in the hope he could make it. You cant blame a player for wanting to play AFL. If he and Jace Bode were recruited they were seen as having potential. Dont get angry at Cook for not making it. He gave it a go.

FCS leave the poor kid alone Wasn't his fault BP put the no.12 noose around his neck He must be devastated, i feel sorry for him Haven't we got better things to discuss than kicking around this kid's carcass?

Just watched the footage. I love Jack Hannath. Devastated he's not a Demon. I also love Mark Neeld. Absolutely stoked he's a Demon.

Superb video that. I love the honesty - he really didn't want to leave, and was disappointed that he wouldn't be joining the Dees, even though he's now living the dream. Very bittersweet - great to see he's going to get the opportunity to play footy at the top level but i was getting pretty comfortable at the thought he would be joining us. Would be very happy if he ended up back at the Dees in a couple of years time, but that's the kind of question we ask him when he comes out of contract, not when he's just been one of the lucky kids drafted into the AFL. Wishing him all the best of luck.

You're letting your emotions get the better of you. There's nothing to gain from this proposal other than messing with the young man's head. He's been given his one shot at a career, the last thing he should be doing is spending a precious season thinking about being elsewhere. He needs to focus. We say thanks anyway, we wish him well, we shut the door behind him.

The guy was a better player at the Oakleigh Chargers than Toby Greene and we know what Greene did in his first year - averaged 27 disposals. He was the TAC Medalist in 2011 with 34 possessions in a game that Greene played in. Some players with under developed frames make their debut while still at school, such as Dan Hannebery, but Viney has a very developed body and has already trained with an AFL side for a year and will be 19 nearly the entire season. Viney is the best inside mid that many have seen in juniors for 5 years. A lot say that Viney is the hardest player they've seen in juniors. This from Knightmare, "I have plenty of faith in Viney and have seen more than enough of him over the past two years to be sold on his game. He is one of those types where you want him on your team and his competitiveness and hardness rates up there and in my view exceeds that of Joel Selwood and Luke Hodge." From Quigley, "Is head and shoulders the best inside mid in this draft . He was well worth the number 2 pick its just a shame that they (Gold Coast) didnt bid for him." As a 14 year old he played in a flag at school with Trengove and Tapscott. I watch him in the stoppage drills at training and he's already a stand out. So no, I don't say it off the basis of "1 VFL game". My Brother sat next to Garry Lyon at a dinner in 2,000 when Viney was 8 and Lyon said then he was a gun. I've been following him for 10 years, from Ashburton where he won 4 B&F's to SA. Look mate, I know you don't get it and I don't care. I normally don't indulge lightweights with the IQ of a brick, but was feeling generous on my birthday. Off to dinner now.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/bulldogs-living-high-life-staying-at-home-20121211-2b7th.html For those interested there is an interesting article on the Dogs training at Altitude at Victoria University. I have been on a tour of the facility and its very sophisticated and well equipped. Some of the earlier questions in this thread about the effects of altitude were answered for me. An ideal altitude (low oxygen and/or increased Nitrogen) is around 2500m. The lower oxygen increases the red blood cell count which in turn allows the blood to carry more oxygen and therefore have better endurance. The paradox is that if you have lower oxygen for too long your conditioning can suffer hence the Altitude Hotel experience where you can build red blood cells by living and sleeping in an Altitude room but train at normal level (Live high train low). The effects can be boosted every few months by repeating the exercise. Carrying higher oxygen allows the body to train at higher loads and build a bigger fitness base. That increased fitness base WILL carry a player well into the season and this is where the benefit largely stands. The Vic Uni facility allows 16 players to sleep at a time in four rooms plus a living room with lots of DVDs , XBox's etc. They spend a few weeks living in there. As well they have other rooms where they can do cycling or running sessions. They looked like lab rats when I went through! With heat training such as the Dees are doing its more about conditioning the body and working with a higher body core temperature. Any weight lost is largely fluid and can be replaced readily but the fitness gained conditions the body to work effectively when the core body temperature is increased. This could be in a game in Melbourne or clearly when we play Darwin or Perth. The GPS trackers have become so sophisticated now that they can tell when a player is working effectively or if their performance has 'fallen off a cliff' - time to rotate to the bench or get subbed. The ability to monitor individual players pre-season gives a great benchmark for real game situations. It is really quite mind blowing how much information the sport science people have to deal with. They know loads, recovery times, ideal effort/rest times, time covered running/jogging/resting etc. Overall it was very impressive.

Jimmy Toumpas has tweeted he injured his knee on the obstacle course. Theres a picture with an ice pack on it. Hope its just a Jar, or a bruise.

I for one am thoroughly enjoying these reports as well as the DeeTV and such. In so many ways this club has changed in quite a remarkably short amount of time. I haven't seen a training for over 18 months. I haven't see a Neeld era one in person yet but i can get a feel from the vision. This is a very different club now. The levels of professionalism and the nature of expectations is just beyond anything I recall By comparison any recent efforts at the Dees seem commensurably amateurish. Its palpable as to the difference that the likes of Rodan and the other experienced players are making to the list, its even sparked up ol' Aaron Actually you can sense everyone's lifted. Again , its always easy to get carried away in the off season but this doesnt seem like the off season, its a genuine PRE Season in that they are gearing to play footy like they have never done before. If i had to be somewhat flippant its as though we not 'mucking about' anymore. TISM !!

G'day all. I apologise for my posts being a bit all over the place but I was in a rush yesterday and nearly missed my flight due to posting on here! Here's some more info for everyone. Neeldy was fairly quiet during drills compared to Neil Craig who was very active and vocal along with Jade Rawlings and Leigh Brown. Players were screamed at by Rawlings and Brown when they missed targets by foot during drills "not good enough" they would say and all of the group would have to do sprints before re-starting the drill again. Sprints looked to be 3 x 50m. There's definitely no love lost between Rawlings and Joel Macdonald. Rawlings was into him non stop, at the end saying "you love me don't you Joel", "I'm easy on you aren't I Joel" and the best was Rawlings asking him if he wanted to be business partners. Jade said "we will start selling balaclavas and you can be the model". Joel didn't say much, probably terrified that anything he did say would probably result in sprints. Neeld was also into Jade about not getting up before the players to go to the gym, obviously the FD is also trying to lead by example. During the match simulation young Jack Viney had his top ripped to pieces, I said to Neeldy I think that's going to be a common occurrence isn't it, he laughed and said "he's just a terror, he terrorises everybody, even us, he hates losing"! I will say again he's a solid bugger, no fear, the year at MFC has obviously been instrumental in him being ready to go for 2013. I'd like to think this will be the same for Jesse Hogan, who was absent at training along with Mitch Clark. Misson joked and said they're back in the pool at the barracks having a cuddle. Players were calling Jack Watts "silky" all session, but honestly between Barry, Strauss, Tappy, Toumpas and Kent you couldn't pick a fault in their foot skills. There were cameras set up remotely all around the ground and all players obviously had GPS's on, I was sitting next to one of many laptops where all data from all players was outlayed and you could see who was hot, who's putting in, distances, temperatures, who's slacking off etc. Lots of ball drills, which has been a common theme and not normally this involved at other clubs before Xmas. I think in previous years balls didn't come out until after January 5th so it's great to see they're getting their hands on the ball as well as building a great fitness base. Where our fitness stands with other clubs I'm not sure but it's only a matter of time and patience before it all clicks. Also great to see a team culture and great camaraderie between players, where if someone's down a bit then another player will lift to cover him and help out, something I've really noticed this year, no selfishness between anyone. Other than that Sells & Mags wanted me to take them fishing. I was first to report about Neeldy's knee-still no answer! Without trying to get everyone's hopes up it is the fittest I have seen the players, ever. Everyone looks ripped, especially Howe. Also it's the sharpest I've seen our skills since the late 90's. And we look to have some pace out there too. Anyway I'm off, I'll report back soon.

Hi All. I just went down to Dees' training this morning at Gardens Oval. Conditions were obviously hot and humid but there was a nice breeze coming through, it would help that this oval is close to the ocean. They trained for a good three hours or so this morning. Training consisted of many full match simulation drills, including what looked like a full match of 10 minute quarters. Standouts in this match included Dom Barry - this kid is something else, smooth mover and beautiful kick, dominated, got the best GPS results out of everyone, very high numbers ... he reminds of a young and better version of Aaron Davey. Others included Nicholson - by geez he is quick and didn't stop running, Jeremy Howe, Jimmy Toumpas, Rory Taggert, Aaron Davey, Tom McDonald , Chip, Colin Garland, Dean Kent and James Strauss. Jack Watts' skills were outstanding however, he left training early and when I saw him last he had strapping around his shin/calf? I'm a Watts fan but he looks skinny - maybe suited to a wing than a backman's role? There were other full ground drills where there were stoppages on all four flanks then it turned into two balls going each way then Neil Craig would yell out and there would be only one live ball which had to get down the other end for a goal, hard to explain! Lots of ruck/midfield drills, one after the other. At the end guys were doing repeat 50m sprints, taking in turns, Nicholson dominated this not slowing up once. I had a long chat with Howie who with Dom Barry absolutely killed the GPS results, up and over 20km for a training session. Howie looks so fit!!! Davey, Nicholson and McDonald also did well here. They can't get away with anything with video cameras everywhere, getting tracked up to the second with GPS through laptops around the ground. I was asking Howie, Tom McD and Sellar how they were handling the heat and they just laughed and said it's different. Howie looked spent. Tom Mc said the benefits of training in humidity were not to do with breathing but to do with muscle stamina, kind of like they push there bodies to max out here in heat then in the cooler weather they can cope for longer at a time due to their core temp - something like that!! Tom Mc also said that some players have lost 5-6kg in a 40min session through fluid loss. A big chat also to Matt Burgan in the shade, seems quietly confident but doesn't let up much. I asked Dave Misson how the players were coping and he said Friday was tough but they've acclimatised much better, they've had to re adjust the program slightly due to the humidity. I met Jimmy Toumpas - bloody lovely kid. Would like to keep him as a pet!!! Just a great happy easy going guy and is absolutely loving being a part of the MFC. Players have been great to him and he loves living with the Vineys. He's had a good time up here, not liking the heat too much but said they've eased him into training which has helped. He too come off early, as did Jack Viney. You will laugh at this - I told Jimmy Toumpas don't you dare do a Scully on us or I will hunt you down!!!! He laughed and said we don't need to worry, he couldnt be happier! Also said he's looking forward to the 38km Kakadu trek. Jones trained all morning then while everyone was having ice baths he just kept doing laps!!! Freak. Sylvia looks very clim & trim, had a decent back rub before leaving. Anyway guys I'm off. Got to fly to Sydney but I'll be back Tuesday so will hopefully get one more training report to you before the Dees fly home on Thursday. Dark horses for this year: Taggert, Tynan, Dean Kent!, Barry. I must say our skills are the best and sharpest I've ever seen.

I don't think anybody can realistically say that we didn't "tank" as people are calling it. The question is whether we broke any rules doing it. The AFL can't retroactively declare that playing a substandard side is illegal and stick charges on us. For a start, this is something that has been done by teams repeatedly and for various reasons, such as Fremantle resting their best players on a road trip to Tassie at the end of the season. Clear tanking by the definitions given, and not a word said. We have to be judged on the standards that were set out for us at the time. We named a side that may have been weaker than we could have fielded (I note Sheedy's comments on doing this winning him a flag). We listed that side at the appointed time, so there can be no outcry from betting agencies that they have been misled. The side on the park was clearly trying to win the games, as is clearly shown by the Richmond loss. We can even use Vlad's words that as long as the team on the park is trying to win it's fine. Indeed, we could use the words of Paul Roos as well, to paraphrase, "Go forward, but for God's sake don't kick a goal." In all of these areas we have behaved in accordance with the rules and guidelines set out for us by the AFL AT THAT TIME. Anyway, enough about tanking, we're in this thread to celebrate the net gain of Anderson leaving.