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From a reliable source (non club) that you can pm me for details if you wish - but I have been informed that Jesse Hogan loves the culture down at MFC, can see lots of young talent on our list and has special admiration for Nathan Jones (who he describes as the hardest worker he has ever seen) and Mitch Clark. He basically cant wait to play for the club. Thought I'd post for some good news about MFC. After the Scully fiasco its nice to know anyway.

The lot of a coach is that they need more notations in the 'W' column than the 'L' column, otherwise they'll be fodder for disgruntled supporters, as well as a target of derision for opposition fans, as well as the media. On face value it's easy to understand posters such as StuieS12, as all they can see is a side that seems to have gone backwards, but on closer analysis, it was the one or two steps back that was needed to give us any opportunity of having genuine success; as well as a complete culture change of the organisation. Bailey's team played one-way footy. They'd been doing it for yeas. It stemmed from Daniher's days. There was enough talent that when they were "on" they could rip a team to shreds, especially interstate teams that had a poor history at the G. But it was fool's gold. Any time they were up against a well organised disciplined side, that had any semblance of a defensive mindset the shutters were put up pretty quickly. They couldn't counter the press, because the coach had misread where the game was going and they didn't have the fitness base anyway. When you don't have strong defensive attributes as a team you don't have a backbone. You've got nothing to rely on when things get tough. This was never more evident than in round 22, 2010. We lost to North by only 10 points. We played some exciting footy that day. Jurrah kicked 5 goals, as did Green, Dunn had one of his cameos up forward with 3 and Bruce, Scully, Sylvia and Morton got plenty of it. I reckon if you looked at pure talent we had North covered reasonably easily. We had 9 first round picks playing - I think North had 3, plus some seasoned campaigners. But they were coached differently. And while North had some trouble stopping Melbourne's attack and flair, they had a hard-nosed approach that was lacking with the Dees. That game really exposed Melbourne. They played some of their most exciting footy for the year, but still couldn't get over the line against a side that wasn't playing at home and didn't make finals. North had nothing to play for in round 22 and were nothing more than a work-horse team, but they still got the job done. The 8.5 wins of both 2010 and 2011 covered cracks at Melbourne about as well as paper mache. Yet some supporters still think we were on the right track. When Neeld and Misson arrived they were pretty shocked at Melbourne's level of fitness. And while it may have been enough when they only had to run one way, it was never going to stand up over 22 rounds and deliver in finals. Not when defending takes more out of you than running ahead of the footy. Pretty quickly Neeld got noses out of joint. Most of the senior players, who loved Dean and even decided to cancel the odd training session under their mate, felt disenfranchised under a no nonsense Neeld. These players thought pretty highly of themselves and had lived a pretty comfortable existence for some time. Most were stripped bare of leadership status and the inevitable followed. As is sometimes the case when you're learning something new and worthwhile there's a tendency to over-correct. Hell-bent on becoming a defensive team they lost their spread. They lost confidence in each other. They didn't trust teammates to win contests and got sucked into those contests only to be burnt on the outside. Combined with poor fitness levels the whole side looked and was as slow as treacle. And disenchanted senior players felt vindicated in their displeasure at what was going on at the club. That's what happens when you're thinking about your own lot. Some supporters were also wondering what the hell was going on. Things were better under Bailey. But Bailey's way was actually now coming home to roost. It was staring the club in the face, even if supporters didn't realise it. The players are getting much fitter, stronger, learning to play defensive finals footy, doing drills to spread better, looking to take the game on and when things turn around it will happen relatively quickly. Just as importantly, when they do come good their brand of footy will hold up. I genuinely believe that the club is finally on the right track. I believe we'll see some real inroads as early as next year. And I'll wager that we'll beat a couple of Victorian sides outside of Richmond and Essendon for the first time since 2007, even if finals are a couple of years away.

It's a 3 year contract as of now. Has an incentives bonus for each time he smiles I believe.

Best of luck Master. You should look back at your career with Melbourne with pride. You played some excellent games and were always committed to the cause. I wish you well.

Here is the reality of the situation - from a person who is an old sporting friend of Hogan. He is hard to read but he LOVES the culture so far at MFC. Thinks its highly professional, and has special praise for Nathan Jones (the hardest worker he has ever seen) and Mitch Clark who is helping him adjust. Hogan will be no Scully and he cannot wait to play for the club. Please dont make any assumptions based on his reserved attitude in some photos and comparisons to Scully. he's even keen to let people know that he loves the club so that more supporters get behind the side. if anyone has any doubts I can even link you via pm to the source of this information. It certainly made my day.

Go well Matty, good luck.

My optimistic side just jolted out of control and I put $50.00 to win $500.00 via sportsbet for Dees to make the eight.

This is fantastic and surely a sign of better things for the Melbourne Football Club. Forget the sheer ignorance about the meaning of the word "troll". For the first time in my living memory, Demon fans are being looked upon as "ferals" - we've joined the great toothless masses, never again to be looked upon as inhabitants of ski lodges, cigar smoking denizens of the Army & Navy Club and partakers of high tea on Sunday afternoons. We've broken out of the private schoolboy mould and can now proudly join the ranks of the football proletariat, ruffians saying and doing the unspeakable. Thanks Crikey for liberating us from a lifetime of being recognised only as genteel wimps. We're now officially "ferals" and we're out to get anyone who tries to stand between us and the premiership. Anyone who's been to training lately can see that it's rubbing off on our players too - look at them. No more nancy boys and it's a prerequisite for all in the Demon army to be "feral". Even Jack Watts will be on carry over points in 2013!

I was at the session this morning, loved it, seriously need AFL to start again asap! Plenty of pure footy drills before running around Tan to finish off. Things that were noteworthy: • Strauss is the forgotten man I feel, but his right foot is a real weapon and was the best kick at a windy session today • Pedersen is just real solid in all aspects of his training, could not see a weakness and a good mover for his size • Viney joined in everything, but even though he is a junior star, the rise in class he now faces was apparent • Clark was stalking around, helping were he could. So obvious he was busting to join in. I LOVE the presence and attitude of this guy! • the new navy training strip is a winner • Credit to Spencer, his endurance running was great and he had Garland, Viney and Rodan covered • the whole session just smacks of professionalism, presents well, everything catered for and training on Collingwood's old Gosch Paddock Oval had a better feel, and a fence too! • spoke to man boy Hogan, who did minor drills. Like his strut, his confidence, the first bloke to ever give me a boner I reckon... I recommend anyone who has the chance to attend a training to do so, puts all the media crap out of your mind and you can't help but love how far Neeld, Craig, Misson has taken this group in 12 months.

It all gets back to the fact that if Caro had any genuine primary evidence she would have revealed it. The best she could do was quote anonymous sources.

Love the passion SS12 - and I haven't read much of this thread until today... anyway I higlight the bold part as this has divded our club for the better part of the last 18 months. I don't have an solid 'inside' contacts/sources but from what I can gather the senior list had issues about the management/administration of the club which led to '186' - now right there that is a MASSIVE issue 1/ at waht stage do players have a say in how the club is run 2/ the fact that the player made a stand (186) says right there instantly says that someting has to change immeaditely 3/ once that stand was made - players and administrators careers should have been terminated (in my opinion) - how is that allowed to happen??? It was a bloody disgrace and it still boils my blood to this day. If that kind of mutitanty happened in the Army the players would have been executed as traitors (which i jokingly support in this occasion) OK so no matter what side of the fence you sit (pro players or pro current administration) I don't think anyone can deny there were problems within the organistation and CHANGES had to happen Rumors (as i've stated i don't know exactly what happened) - the senior playing group had issues with CC & CS (I personally have no idea what these issues were) but these 2 groups could no longer co-exists So as the president of a divided clune what do you do??? 1/ playing lists can't be immediatly turned over 2/ footy admin is not easily exchangable (just look at Norf strggling for a CEO) and for whatever reason the admin side kept their jobs (except Bailey who was the scape goat) - my opinion Bailey was a top bloke and a decent coach - but IMO his game style was never going to be conistantly successful against the good clubs. Look at this years GF and any GF in the last 10 years - contested footy wins Grannys and the Dees under Bailey were not that team. The teams we smashed (ADEL & SYD don't always play at the G and were vunerable) had off days - how do you explain how we ere so easily smashed by VIC teams under Bailey??? So decisions were made and Neeld was brought in... Neeld didn't win over the senior group for 2011... Who goes then??? The players who initiated 186 or the new coach??? Stupid questoin really - especially when these players have already embaressed themselves and the club. I don't know if i have answered the question or have just ranted but I have never seen a Demon p'ship (I am 30) and I fear i will probably never see one. I'lll support Neeld for 2 reasons - He had identified weakness in the club and sought to solve the problems - He is willing to take action - a divided club will never win games There are no passangers in the Neeld gameplan and I support that - it's gong to take time to develop an actual decent list.... YOu have every right to your opinion SS12 and I respect you more for signing up again when you don't agree with the club's moves (respect to you) Winning footy talks - if Neeld can't deliver he will go as well

I'm a "64 guy" too and if someone told me as I left the ground that day we wouldn't win another flag for more than 40 years I would have told them they were idiots; however that's how it is. We've had a problem at the club for years and it had to be eradicated, hopefully now it has. You talk about Adelaide, well think back to when Malcolm Blight took over, the first thing he did was sack their 3 most senior players, 3 players who had been running the club and dictating to the committee who would and wouldn't be coach. They were holding the club back and since they got the arse Adelaide haven't looked back. I reckon we've just had an Adelaide moment.

I can hear the chant now: "Tim, Tim, Tim, Tim!"

Changing the rules ,or changing the goalpsots? As group, some young ten year old kids,had the insight (back in the late 60;s) to change some rules for their 'backyard' footy games. Just like in your backyard cricket,caught off the roof with one hand was out. We all had our rules changes for such events. As a kid we would round up as many as we could, pick teams then head down the road to the local school,and hold a game that usually lasted about an hour. We didnt have enough for an umpire, on a good day,we could muster up about 20 kids, ranging from 8 to 10 yrs old. The captains usually picked themselves,then took turns in picking from the group. The elite went 1st then the dregs to fill in. The school footy oval was ideal as it was a bit smaller than your average local football ground, when you dont have enough players, it usually meant more ground to cover,as the 'dregs' were more like statues,then footballers.But numbers was more important than talent. Pugsly was always full forward (everyone has a pugsly) short, stumpy to fat build,couldnt run to save himself, but was like a boulder to move out of the way. A footballer he wasnt. He was more likely to have his head in a superman comic,then playing kick to kick in drizzling rain. Then there was "Stretch", 6 inches taller than anyone else,ran like a 3 legged giraffe,balls skills non existent. he was always full back,he got the job on Pugsly,to try to stop him kicking a bag. Then the others were handy elsewhere around the ground. The engine room was made up of the junior school football team players,they would cover more ground than Burke and Wills. One day we hit a snag, an agruement come dispute erupted, Pugsly fluked a mark, and was about to kick from dead in front, when someone said he should be put on an angle,not directly in front of goal (as a 5 year old, when I went to the footy with my old man (swans supporter,so he didnt have that much of clue, at a Melb game I questioned why one of my players was on the boundary line when he marked the ball in the goal square? He said it depends on the angle of the kick when it went there.I still was none the wiser) After 5 mins of to and fro'ing, what did from then on, to prevent any bickering, we would make it a local rule, that it didnt matter,what angle you got the mark or free,you can kick it directly to goal. None of this lining up the player from the center of the goal posts, If its in the goalsquare or thereabouts you took the kick directly in front. That would have been great for upcoming games we planned, we now had one sticking point solved, about then 20 minutes in, I broke through the middle,weaved and danced around a few, All I had to do as sell the dummy to the 'dregs' and I was home free. I looked up, and the goalsquare is vacant, no-one to kick too!! So I hoofed it as hard as I could. I looked around there's Pugsly and Stretch disappearing into the distance. Seems like when you cant get a kick, interests soon wane ,and a comic book holds more interest. So with numbers declining we pressed on. Then there were days when we did the Tony Greig pitch test, (yes I always copped it, coming home with casual shorts, covered in mud, or good jeans with grass stains) I could have been out breaking into houses, or the like, but nope, it was fun to play a game of footy, but when you are a kid, with big ambitions, some days you cant do anything right. So after a week of rain, we could use the stomp the foot into the turf test, we werent old enough to carry car keys to test the hardness. If your shoe / boot got covered in mud, it was game off, and kick to kick was the alternative. I always looked back to the day when we made a sensible descision about making it easy to solve problems lining up kids in the goal square, when finally the AFL Rules committee finally seen the light and made it a rule if the player is in the goalsqaure kicks from directly in front. Perhaps Pugsly was smarter than I took him for. Did he have a hand it that rule change? If so we need more Pugslys on the AFL rules committe. Dont change the rules for the sake of it, dont do it to justify a job. Dont do it as a knee jerk reaction. Soccer, and many other sports dont change rules every year, nor do they do it, on the run. This flows onto local kids footy, but dad!! we didnt do that last year. There are far too many gray areas in our game and way far too many rule changes. This is one they got right, only took them 100+ years. I can think of a heap other rules, that exist, they dont need to add more, just refine, or fix the ones they got wrong.

Interesting interview on the subject with Mark Neeld on NT news:-

Listing the playing numbers etc. is fine. If someone lists the results for that day, there may be bans...

Whilst I will be happy with any of those 3 I would wet my pants if Toumpas is available for us and would be disappointed if we didn't take him. No disrespect to Wines but I would take Toumpas and O'Rourke ahead of him as they have more balanced games with the added dimension of ball carrying speed that we sorely lack.

Is that the sort of language a troll would use? Or a feral? I get so confused. And here in the darker reaches it's hard to tell the difference. Anyone got a torch?

Ah, that time of year when you are deluded enough to think we are a chance to do something good next season. Enjoy it while it lasts. I'm looking forward to the first "sack Neeld" post 5 minutes after we lose a practice match in Albury.

Lucky I hadn't finished photoshopping him into the Demonland Banner for 2013.

Great neat file there for us to refer to, cheers WJ! I certainly hope we dont draft Membrey, for the sole reason of not wanting to cheer on someone with such fugly bogan tattoos!

Just back from the track. There were basically 3 groups today. The main group of about 27 (excellent numbers for the first official week of training) included Strauss, Grimes, Pederson, Taggart, Jetta and Davey. Also fantastic to see Jordie Mac in the main group from week one. That must be a first. Two small groups plus Mitch Clark made up the numbers. Jones, Byrnes and Tapscott were set aside for sprint work. Terrific to also see Tappy having a good start to the pre-season. He's been doing some running work with Jonesy over the past 4-5 weeks and should be ready to join the main group on Monday. Again this is another great sign from a guy who has never done a full pre-season with the main group. He said a number of players are well ahead of last year and they are doing a lot of explosive work plus a fair amount of endurance stuff. Their training sounds like a killer - pre season starting after the GF, and now they do endurance and football work in the morning; weights in the arvo, then lectures, pilates and finishing at 6 on their training days. Thank god they also get a fair bit of recovery time. Another group consisted of Tynan, Evans, Sylvia and Hogan. They basically walked a few laps and finished early; a couple did the handball work on the mini- trampoline. Colin was back last week but has been ill and spent a bit of time saying hello to the coaches and Byrnes.. I gave Tynan the points for the most improved body. He has definitely built up around the shoulders - his delts are bigger and have more definition. Earlier this year he was a skinny kid who ate pizzas after club functions. Now he's ready for a calender shoot. Mitch Clark was there too. He did some left foot passing with one of the trainers, and walked around the sidelines for a while. I think he desperately wants to get back in the main group and i like guys who injured but still show hang around the training and encourage the team. Those absent included Dawes (still o/seas), the Russian (on a honeymoon) Gawn (possible twinge in the hammy on Monday according to reports) and Fitzpatrick (modified program). The main training group finished about 11, then 5 unfortunate guys had to do 8 two minute runs to build up their endurance. Spencer, Rodan, Davey, Viney and Garland were the victims and it was hard work. I believe most of the main group did this session on Wednesday. Two highlights: Spencer attempting to kick left foot. Seasoned training watchers said they had never seen anything quite like it. Leigh Brown joining in the 8 two minute runs and encouraging the others. A kind person might say that Leigh has only added about 15kgs since his playing days, but he was running with the pack, and...luvving it. They did a lot of ball work today, by hand and foot. Lots of burst stuff - run hard - get the ball - and hit the target. It was fabulous to see so many faces on the park, and they are clearly well ahead in fitness compared to this time last year.

Given the generally accepted version of Matt Rendell's comment, your entire post was, in my opinion, racist. Lame attempt to skewer me on spelling though champ. Really? Is that all you have got?

Stringer just looks like a player.

Broomhead will take a while to get a handle on it . At 74 Kgs we can pick him up when he starts shaving in 2016.

Bater was one of my favourite players during the dark times over the last 10 years. I feel he has been poorly coached and deserved much better in the way of reciprocal loyalty and attitude. Other, more-favored players like Sylvia, Moloney & Morton were given endless opportunities for little return whereas Matty Bates was never given a sustained opportunity to cement himself in the team. Another sad end to a bright beginning. Having said that, I'm glad we didn't trade him last year as that woud have been an even bigger disappointment. I wish him well for the future.

Not sure if that says more about Bate or dilutes the MFC B&F results....

training the house down never seen the boys so fit 19 weeks of rubbish til round one.. sigh

red and blue forever has decided to stick his head in the noose. He will be in the quiz chair next, starting tomorrow.

the 'can Neeld coach' and/or ' has Neeld taken the right approach' debates have been done to death. The answer is we cant really tell until 2013 is done and dusted, or at least 1/2 way done. However, its clear to me we played the way we did last year inorder to do two things get the players playing with a primarily defensive mindset identify the players who would follow instruction from those who want to do things their way In short, it was a year we had to have inorder for Neeld to build a team to take forward. Its hurt as a supporter becasue we expected to see more wins after and up and down 2010. For Neeld to come in and let things continue as the had been would have been taking the safe option. Hats off to Neeld for standing his ground and putting the line in the sand. Mark Neeld the man, he is the LAW!

What insults? Are they that thin skinned that they can't take honest feedback? Great leadership to sulk after some rightfully stinging criticism. According to you he must be. I don't think he is - the game has gone WAY past him. FFS. Performance =/= leadership. No. Yelling at players is not leadership. Face facts - he is a poor leader. Once again, performance =/= leadership. Very well, in terms of leading the team. You really think the old guard would have done better? Really? Trengove had a tough year. He stagnated. But still his leadership was exemplary in spite of his performance. Rocking the boat? Good. We NEEDED change, and the RIGHT kind of change. How you can't see what is happening is beyond me. So, your mates don't have crystal balls and you were given a tip that drastic change was being made. What the hell does this prove? I beg to differ - his man management was exceptional. He has spent a season revolutionising the culture and sorting the wheat from the chaff. You may have different KPIs to Neeld, but you need to accept that the old KPIs brought consummate and perpetual failure to the club.

What's your argument here? That, like Adelaide, a team of young players can get absolutely smashed, yet simultaneously be building towards some very strong form in the not-too-distant future? How many teams are able to address weaknesses whilst maintaining strengths? Adelaide in 2011 clearly couldn't. What fantasy land do you live in? Sorry mate, but you have NFI. None whatsoever.

but Stuey what happened every time that same 22 players left the comfort of the MCG?They Shat themselves & that includes Etihad 5 mins down the road..

Yes, I was there, but there's nothing really to add to what has been reported. Although I'll confess my love for Mitch Clark. Not only is he a striking 200 cm figure, he looks like a real leader. As others have noted he takes a real interest in training drills even if he's just observing. Clark has the size, agility, marking prowess, pace, presence, etc to become one of the AFL's top 10 players. When you think that Cox didn't hit his straps til his mid 20's there's so much more for Clark to give. I have no doubt he could be the best ruckman in the league, but having him spend 70% forward is a luxury I can live with. I was surprised how vocal Rodan already is. He was encouraging the boys to keep their skills up in the windy conditions while they were stretching on the fence-line. I've never seen Davey do that in 10 years. Yet people like Sheahan, a supposed expert, wanted to make him captain a few years ago. It beggars belief. Taggert kicks and moves well. He's a nice size, but needs to develop his upper body, which won't be difficult. But I've never seen him play, so take it with a grain of salt. I watched Viney's kicking really closely. Over longer distances it's so so, but his passing from 15-35/40 metres is pinpoint, low and laser like. Much like that pass to Daniher in the championships. Forwards will love being on the end of his passing. A good initial turn of foot too. Good pace. Watts' physique hasn't changed one iota, but it's very early in the preseason and some clubs haven't even started back yet. I see Watts' down back for the foreseeable future and I don't see him in a key defensive post, but more the 'plus 1' intercept role and highly skilled distributor. He doesn't need much more bulk for that. I would like more meat on him because it will give him confidence to compete better, especially in the air, but it's not there yet. Happy to answer any queries, as I'm sure others are.

I remember when I was his age.....A few beers after playing footy and cricket.......Sometimes you just can't put old heads on young shoulders....It's so easy for us supporters to judge young players with out "knowing them"......"They should work harder....They should do this, they should do that........Some times it takes a while for the penny to drop,before they know what they really want.....

Good Luck Matty. You always gave 100%....

And MFCFS (Fantasy Syndrome) is the complete opposite "The boys are training the house down" "I think we'll make 12 wins next year and scrape into the 8" "This (new guy) is going to be a star. 200 gamer for sure. A real Brownlow prospect" You get the picture...................... We have a heavy dose of both syndromes on Land. A few unfortunates are know to have both syndromes (depending on the day)

With Stiller retiring and no mention of Jacobs or anyone else, it is possible we have identified a couple of players we think we can get with later picks. I hope though we have identified someone for the PSD, as it would be a shame to waste what might be the first live pick, if GWS take Tippett and GC don't participate.

tappy is so big that when he runs he makes the earth rotate.

How hard can it be it to flush the dunnys around here?

Over my coffee break I gave this a little thought. This might just put the Dees in a strong position. " do it my way fellas or we walk" Lets see how clever CS and the board are over the next month.

The following is a quote from the article "Although most players have not been paid for the 2012 season, Casey insists it has money set aside for them." Then why the hell have they not paid them? Must be doing wonders for recruiting players for 2013 and who is going to take on the coaching position with no players for 2013

A work colleague of mine is mate with Greeny having played junior footy with him in Launceston. He spoke with him recently and it was clear that Greeny was keen to play on in 2013, but was told he would have limited opportunities as the club looks to develop younger players.

I love it when she visabily shifts uncomfortably in her seat when he starts to bring it up. She knows whats coming. Then she tries to defend and then shift the arguement onto something else. Then Hutchy keeps her on topic and then she attempts to squirm out of it. Absolute gold! Seeing this just made my day a better one!

This is what I mean when I refer to the damage done to the club by the media's treatment of the "tanking" story - Denis Pagan urges the AFL to go easy on Melbourne for tanking Denis Pagan is a nice bloke and his sentiments about the AFL not going to hard on us over tanking are well and good but there's a heavy presumption of our guilt running throughout the story. The propaganda effect has won out and in the eyes of the world we're guilty of an offence before we've even been charged, seen the evidence or put our case. Our jails would be brimming full if that sort of thing happened in society. Worse thing. There'd be no lawyers because once somebody accuses you of something, you're automatically guilty. That sort of thing doesn't even happen in totalitarian societies where, at least they give defendants a show trial.

Like everyone I would love to see it and for my kids to see it for the first time in their lives, but realistically I would be happy with 8 to 10 wins and to be competative in another 8 to 10 where we only where to get done by 3 to 4 goals. That to me with signs of further improvement in 2014 would be a pass. Long way to go yet and we are due a decent run with injuries at some stage

That's the beauty of a long-term injury for a younger kid. Provided they are able to get over the initial injury, it allows them to build a frame for AFL quicker than say a kid who plays the majority of the season. I simply salivate at the prospect of what Misson will be able to do with Hogan over 2 pre-seasons.

Yep, no chance of it happening. Although, i'd like the MFC to still look after these boys. Making sure that there is still regular contact between all 3 of Davey, Jurrah and Wona. Both Aussie and Liam have been through difficult times recently, and whilst with Melbourne they were both mentored and had a great relationship with Flash. If the MFC is truly concerned with these boys well-being, which they undoubtedly are, they'll ensure that through the MFC these 3 will always be connected and maintain a strong friendship. Tanking and all that other bs aside, our club continues to ensure that friendship outside of the footy club continues. That's what a footy club is really about, camaraderie.

The best KPF's in this draft are Stringer and Mason Shaw. Shaw was behind Hogan playing for WA this year, whilst Stringer is recovering from a horrific injury (he might even be available come pick 20). GC would like the idea of spreading the age of their new draftees coming in, even if it is only an extra year (gives them greater balance). There are also big advantages in bringing a kid in a year early, in that they have an extra years development at an AFL club.