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I was told last night that Bate is heading to the Doggies. They confirmed that Martin to Pies for Wellingham was in the works, but didnt say it was 100%. Said Rivers fairly certain to Cats as we already know. They also said that Howie was pretty smashed on their end of year trip and fell off a scooter and scratched up his face pretty bad! Source: A current dees player rhyming with Fate

No It should be supporters and posters like me who have the opportunity to be part of a wide community of Melbourne supporters who should be thanking you. If it wasn't for Demonland and 'Ology I am sure my interest would have waned long ago.

Are you serious?? Who says he has improved?? He only played the last two games of the year and managed to jag a few finals. Hardly a player that has improved at the Swans. Right time and got lucky might be better,

I dont think we have an age bracket tbh, we lack expericne, especially with Moloney (maybe not the best experience bu is experience) and Rivers going, Green. Our top end is shallow, and Lynch fills a need imo, we can play Fitz or Watts or Cook under these guys with alot less pressure. We needed a second tall when Clark went down, i dont care if Lynch is just a stop gap persay, we have the $$$$ and need another target, why not?

We should also thank the moderators on the site (disclosure - I'm one of them ). It's a difficult and often thankless task having to act at times as arbiter of what is and what is not permitted on the site. This is especially so when we go through a season such as the one we've recently experienced (and the one before that). There is no such thing as an uneventful football season but let's hope that the next one will have some more uplifting and exciting stories about them than the last two.

I think the OP is spot on, we get a player who is a good small forward like Flash and try to turn him in to a midfielder, back flanker then back to the forward line again. We have a player like Morton who was doing ok as a mid then try to turn him in to a backman, tagger then who knows what. I think our last two coaches were following their former coaches idea that every player should be able to play everywhere, we'll that doesn't always work. I understand that players should have a defensive side but that doesn't mean you have to rob them of their attacking nature as well. I was told that Sellar was there to perform a role and as long as he did he'd remain on the list and I would imagine that all the players will have similar instructions, so I guess we will see next year, a more settled line up with players responsible for certain jobs each week.

Everyone knew Morton had talent. He kicked 41 goals one year at Richmond on the back of 35 the previous year. He had to work hard on the defensive side of his game and finally got an opportunity late in the season. There's nothing terribly eye-opening. He's finally started to do the things expected of an AFL player at his third club. To get a consistent game at Sydney you must adhere to their non-negotiables. It's been harder to get a game at Melbourne this year too.

Somewhere out there is someone who thinks $26 on Richmond for the flag is good value and has a punt. Someone who needs to be shut away from society for the greater good.

My mates cousins husbands barber does Nathan Jones hair...said Viney will come to us 2nd round because GC and GWS are scared that if they nominate we will raid the clubs with our blank cheque book.

1. Craig built that Adelaide list and Sando is just riding on the new coach syndrome for my mind. He is HIGHLY respected and we were lucky to get him given that Collingwood and others were circling. 2. I will guarantee anyone here that MFC will take Viney at what ever it takes - pick 3 pick 78 - doesnt matter he will be a Dee... End of story. Any other speculation is incorrect. I know this as a fact. 3. The claim that Neeld was hired on a pitch of 'our list is great' is incorrect. Neeld was approached because we wanted a harder discipline coach who demanded 'elite level standards at every level and unrelenting high performance'. Some did claim that our list was the bees knees and I think our list underperformed in 2012 because many were not coping with the heavily increased fitness regime. Many players have said as much. But it appears that we may lost a large chunk of our list and both the Scott brothers have been pretty harsh in their assessment of our list over the last four years. 4. If you think you can doubt Neeld and Craig based in 2012 you just dont understand footy to be frank. They may prove to be unsuccessful but its impossible to say based on recruiting and based on the vast increase in training standards. 5. No surprises with the direction RE recruiting - our development of drafting potential has obviously been poor in the past. While I'd assume that we'd have to get lucky eventually, all indications via media, rumour and contacts suggest that we are approaching just about EVERY free agent or trade option we think can play a role which is unprecedented. We want and need older leadership and Neeld made that pretty clear early in the season that he saw that was significantly lacking in our 2012 listed players. Lets revisit this post in Julyish 2013 and see what people have to say then.

Gee thanks for that, I wasn't aware what happened in the 50's. You have an amazing amount of posts for someone with nothing to say

Highlights how ridiculous it is (most of the time) to say that "player x, y or z will never be a premiership player." He played a role - no more, no less. He did nothing yesterday (or last week) that I haven't seen him do throughout much of his career, so I don't really think he's improved necessarily.

I hate lynch and his glove throwing antics but would secretly be glad if he finished his career with us. He can play, is as durable as you can get, and comes from a club with a winning culture

Helps to be surrounded with ruthless professionals and flat out good players.

You do not fluke good form in a Prelim & a GF. He earnt respect from his team mates & Coach. Whether he has the strength to do it in 2013, who can say yet.

Now we defiently know this rumour is fake..

Having watched the whole season in hd, I was delighted to watch the most important game of the year in standard def. what a disgrace.

Yes & no. I think it's still important for some players to continue improving and adding other strings to their bow, but it serves no purpose pushing a player into a foreign position where he just continually flounders. What this approach and the Sydney example gives me, is great hope that some of our role players are already hiding on our list but we don't even recognise it. Guys like Lynden Dunn, who does have a half-decent skillset, and would probably blossom in a strong culture like that of Sydney, where his idea of being a 'tough guy' wouldn't be tolerated. The culture is changing and severe list turnover will make the players brutally aware that this change will come quickly, with or without you. The idea of talented kids coming into the club at this time and being exposed to this shifted attitude excites me.

It seems a completely appropriate way to get some perspective to me. It wasn't as if the Dorks where humiliated and needed Sheedy to put on an army helmet and yell at them about Anzac to set them going for next year. As Rafter said on losing a Wimbledon nail biter.."no one died out there today" Footy ISN'T life and death, and you CAN die happy even if your team doesn't win a premiership. Geez...Jeff Kennett is unpleasant because he's had an empathy bipass and is married to someone who is proud that she a "good hater, not because he was the Hawks President. Actually his philosophic superficiality makes him perfect for that sort of position. I "hate" Dorks supporters en mass at any footy ground, yet one of my oldest friends is also a supporter. It is just a game ...the opiate of the masses.

I quoted elsewhere on another thread about Jack Watts thread the words of an opposition supporter, Colin Wisbey from the Collingwood supporters Bulletin Board. This is what he said recently about Jack Watts:- I have a lot of time for Wisbey's opinions and agree that the MFC's development of its young players in the past has been nothing short of appalling and that we need to give Watts more time because that is the way with KPPs. The football department under Neeld/Craig/Misson has been together for less than twelve months and while they have been given the commodity of time to get the house in order, I think we need to see some results in 2013 both in respect to Jack Watts and most other aspects of the team's development. I want to see how they get through the coming pre season which the FD promises to be the one that drills them up to close to the same levels that the leading clubs reach every pre season and not the far inferior levels comparatively of the fitness, conditioning and skills work we are told have applied for the past decade. In any event, the challenge is definitely on for Jack and the many other young blokes at the club to demonstrate that they possess a lot more than just raw talent.

I know he is trying to say its not the end of the world. I dont think the direct references he has made were necessary.

The mess the previous coaches made of Flash is a disgrace. Green to some extent as well.Robbing Peter to pay Paul is a saying that comes to mind. Good coaching is sometimes like fitting the jig saw puzzle together more than it is playing on the magnetic white board

Oh my god, you people. Breaking story: TWITTER IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE I had a giggle, and moved on. This is the biggest non-issue I think I've ever seen.

News just in - 'Brock Mclean a bit of a boofhead'. Close thread?

Today was typical of the old saying a a champion team will beat a team of champions. The swans to their credit all had solid work ethics, hunting in packs, and backing each other up. Saw a stat of one player not sure which, 15 tackles. That is the type of side you dont want to play, something that perhaps we can aspire to in the future.

The next best feeling after a Demons, win is a dawks grand final loss. Absolutely hate that team with a passion & at the moment I'll cherish the night. Might even watch the replay.

You do know that if one of his speculations pans out that will be more than 2% right?

We were [censored] with him and we've got Frawley, McDonald, Garland, Watts, Dunn, and Davis to hold down third talls as we see fit. Adelaide lost Bock and Phil Davis in successive years and with an ageing Ben Rutten some Adelaide supporters thought the sky was falling. But opportunities opened up and now Talia is a rising star. Look at Hawthorn. Today they've got Gibson, Schoenmakers and Stratton as their 3 tall backs. They could be 3 premiership key backs in a few hours, but I'd take Frawley, McDonald and Garland/Watts over that triumvirate. Rivers leaving isn't preferable, but nor is it a major issue. And with a decent compensation pick we may come out ahead. I understand the logic that losing senior players isn't ideal, but we'll be losing a player in a part of the ground we can readily cover. I see 2012 as the end of a bleak era. Neeld and Co have had their year to assess the list and 2013 represents a new beginning. If Rivers goes, as well as Moloney - and a few others - it's probably the right time for it to happen.

Just watched Swans President who had a crack at the Eagles after they won the 06 flag & then bottomed out & got early picks including priority pick. He said the Swans have too much pride & strong culture to go down that path, & worked very hard after retirements from senior players after 05 flag era, to find players who could be developed from existing clubs. Longmire also said that senior players in leadership group set the std for younger & new players coming into club. This is how you set Culture! MFC take note there is no easy way out with early picks!

If reports are true that Brendon Goddard will lodge the first FA application as soon as tomorrow, it's possible that FA will rid us of the phenomenon of having one deal hold back many ohers waiting for the big one to be done . By removing Goddard early, it might help the other clubs!

I'm not sure that an ongoing culture survives at any club but I do think that a group of players along with coaches and admin at a point of time can build something special that we currently call culture. In Norths case that was the Pagan era, Hawthorn had it through the 70's with Scott, Matthews and co then it carried through with Tuck, Ayres, Brereton and co then nearly lost the club in the 90's. Geelong with their 3 premierships were know as the handbag club for a long time, they may live to fight again because of the strength of the playing group handing over to the next group along with a very well run club. Our own club in the late 50's and early 60's is another prime example, with Smith and Barassi our culture was strong. A good culture is more about a club at a point in time, I don't believe in the mystical ongoing culture of a club otherwise we would be sitting on top of the world and we aren't. It's amazing how good a President, CEO or Coach are when winning and it's also amazing how they become no good and a rabble when losing. All of a sudden the egos get in the way, the politics begin and the ship springs a leak that lets the media feed. As fans we want blood. I like the way we are trying to build a winning environment; If this is achieved a good part of it will be how the group work together as a team, the players, coaches, board, admin. This is what we will call a good culture.

Didn't this fella kick the first and last goals of the GF?

Or Lynch plays the Leigh Brown role, which i think was a big loss this season. And dawes might recapture some of his 2011 form?

Thanks to those that run the site, and those who post. Demonland gives me an outlet for procrastinating at work like nothing else can! And for this I am truly thankful!

Will be a good signing if true. Fills a need for at least 2, possibly 3 years. Mature and physically tough player who can help set good standards at the club. Would love to see Shannon Byrnes swooping on the crumbs of Q Lynch next season!

It means he's Mitch, we've got Cale.

unlike all our other tall forward options atm who are tearing it up and monstering defences?

Nothing will ever beat Fox Sports getting rolled by the Carowhine Wilson account.

IMO the Swans Culture started to change after the players who where 'bought & shipped' to the Private 'Swans' Enterprise , abandoned that ship & headed blue. Players fought, & rats deserted, the Swans nosedive. Enter RDBarassi on a mission from HQ. Enter some discipline & some self respect & a new belief that the club could be something. With backs to the wall, The quality people who remained started to build something. Something that meant something. They Stood! for something, & made it strong. Goodd things grow from small but strong ideals.

Correction - I just looked up that article. Thompson was number one in the league at the time of the article (not just North). The stats are compiled by Champion. It's an interesting indicator. And it rather undermines the criticism of JW as the collector of 'cheap' possessions across half back.

No, thank you Demonland! You have saved me. Before i stumbled upon Demonland I was of the belief that I was an irrational pathetically pessimistic demon supporter who only ever saw the darkness, a lost cursed soul doomed to walk this earth alone in my misery. Now after a year or so of following Land I know that I am not alone at least. In fact compared to many on Land I'm positively optimistic. Praise the lord it's a miracle! Thank you Demonland.

We are in for another tough year in the wilderness then.

This year has seen footy journalism drop to new lows. Consistently left scratching my head at some of the drivel they are coming up with. Can get more reasoned and informed views from regular Joe Blows on forums and blogs than these idiots who get paid to do it.

Yep, we can obviously save a fortune on having a recruiting department. Just ask mums to bring in their sons. FFS. For starters it wasn't Lewis's mum, it was Neville's mum. And given that Lewis had been completely ignored by everybody in the 2007 draft and had gone back to playing bush football at the time, easy to understand why not only Melbourne, but every club in the land was ignoring her opinion. It was only after he started to play for the WAFL in 2009, that he began to be noticed. Though it's all irrelevant, because if there's anything today's match shows, it's not who you draft, but what you do with them after you draft them. Or to put it another way, put all of Prendergast's and Cameron's draft choices in red and white, and you'd still have a Sydney team in the finals.

Couldn't agree more Mydee. As an interstate supporter, Demonland is my football 'lifeblood'. Sincere thanks to all involved in Demonland! I don't know how you do it, but you manage to keep me sane, but drive me mad at the same time.

I like the still footage because you can't see that we're 78 points down at the time.

Shattered Hawthorn faces...brings Joy to mine..

I long for the day when MFC play in a game like this

HATE Hawthorn. Arrogant flogs and spoiled whiny supporters. Massive bandwagoners too. Remember the crowd they got vs Port in 2004 at the G? Massive [censored] Kennett as President hilariously sold them to Tasmania. Bastardised club supported by clueless spoiled bandwagoners. /sore spot I will be barracking very hard for the Swannies this day. Hope they win by 1 point.

They'll win the flag then get banned from the comp in a conspiracy involving a cadre of spanish hookers and 3 kilos of cocaine.