Leaderboard

Nah. Should elaborate, Riv is one senior player I'd hang on to has never taken a backward step and a very courageous under rated player. Not as slow as some would suggest and takes a very good mark especially under pressures. Keep.

I had no idea I've been preparing for knee surgery the last 10 years.

If Rivers isn't playing in the red and blue next year, I'll deadset chuck a tanty. One of the most reliable senior players, and is very rarely beaten. Adds leadership and a calming influence I believe. A definite starter every time he's fit.

I don't know whether he's any good. I expect Neeld knows and has formed his own view by now. I'll go with that, as I expect he'll act on it if he doesn't rate him.

Taking one for the team, good man!

FFS scaremongers & paranoid supporters, take it as fact he is staying ball is in our court unless we do the wrong thing which we wont

There is a thread about club culture. Rivers adds to that at Melbourne. He is a loyal hardworking and courageous servant of the club. He is also still a good experienced player with 2 or three years left in him. Why part with him? Tom Mc is developing well and probably benefits from River's experience.

Found it a bit amusing he has copped it on here. He may be a dud, but we wouldn't really have a clue of the workings of the football department and his specific role. All we do know is we are undermanned in the midfield and have been for a few years now.

Sammy in negotiations now and definitely wants to play on next year. Schwarta asking about Skulldog. He said I'm not Tom Scully. Neeld and Club is going in right direction and his contract will sort itself out. He is not going anywhere. Speaks well and giving an insight into how his broken leg played on his mind and had to consult a psychologist to help him overcome his fear of rebreaking his leg. Looking forward to having a full preseason to be able to push up forward. Yes!!

Sorry for the delay with this, been tied up at work... Jack Viney is a top 10 pick. The issue with him is that he isn't big and isn't fast, which means that in usual circumstances you wouldn't pick him in the top 5. His intangibles are incredible. He shows guts, leadership, bravery, defensive pressure, and toughness. These things aren't measured at a draft camp so you won't hear about him very much during testing... But trust me when I see that Jack Viney is easily the toughest Under 18's player I have ever witnessed. Which is a pretty big deal considering the amount of kids that comes through the system each year. I'll tell you one thing about Viney that is rarely mentioned, his kicking over 20-40 mtrs is absolutely elite, barely ever misses a target by foot... It is quite incredible that someone of his size who plays the game the way he does would also have an elite kick but he does, it is simply a perfect action for someone at his stage of development. Naturally, we want to snag Viney in the 2nd round, so hopefully no one bids on him (for the record I don't believe anyone will risk it)... But with that being said, I would still pick Viney at 3 if we had to and not feel bad about it because we will still have pick 4 and a mid round pick. Jack Viney will forge out a 200 game career (if there are no injuries) and will most likely been in the leadership group very quickly... So to me, that is well worth the investment of the number 3 pick. Picking Viney in my opinion is a sure thing, no hoping he comes on like alot of other high draft picks... He is a guy who will come in and give us his all at a high level for his entire career. He isn't a project, he isn't a freak athlete, he isn't a great endurance runner or any of that stuff you hear about skinny 17 year old draftees... Jack Viney is a footballer... So is Sam Mitchell, so is Joel Selwood, so is Dane Swan.

I don't know why you have this reaction - we have a culture of ease, laziness, and low standards. Hopefully it is being changed with Jones, Trengove, Grimes, Clark, Batram, Garland, and Frawley - 7 very impressive footy players. If these guys can push all and sundry to better efforts we may achieve better feats.

Yeah the Daylight brothers, they're handy. Always up and about early in the morning like clockwork, pretty bloody focussed during early afternoon games, but they fade-out during twilight games (not even going to mention where they are during Night games). Still the will burn you given half a chance...

Good thread jnr. It's another example of how hard it is to break away and develop a strong culture. Jolly paints a clear picture. And like noses out of joint (sand through the hour glass) at Melbourne so too were noses out of joint at Sydney initially. So too were at early days at Geelong. Like last year, I implore Melbourne supporters to think of the greater picture here. These are examples of player driven motives. We can't hold back and nurture those who sit in the corner, don't work hard and push themselves or disagree with new training standards and leadership. Or those who take downhill shortcuts. It's got to come from within, and the direction of the club will keep sifting to find those who 'have it' and those that will not compromise set non negotiables !

All the talk of getting chapman for his culture building abilities gets me thinking we should go hard for Cameron Ling as a Midfield coach. This bloke knows what it's like to be in a crap team and then turn it around into a monster of a team. Many say he is interested in coaching so I say get him.

I also wish him luck, as if the treatment fails, his AFL career is probably over. He is a nice guy who gives his all.

Riversis best 22 and will be for some time. I had my doubts a couple of years ago but he has been terrific in the past 2 seasons. Reads the game well. Is tough as old boots to beat. He is our third-man-up man and every good defence needs one. He is a leader. And he is very consistent - rarely puts in a shocker. His skills are a bit dodgy at times and he gets monstered by the gorilla forwards but I would be really annoyed if he was traded.

Thats the question.....that i dont think many people know

I think Voltaire would be amazed at the idea of privately run Internet forums. As Voltaire once said: "All men are born with a nose and ten fingers, but no one has the right to say what they want on a private Internet forum. Noobs" - Voltaire

No, that is entirely the point. You use Darling as an example. Every club, all 16, had the chance to take Darling, and didn't. We were not the only ones. If a player is drafted late, then by the very nature of that player being drafted late, there must have been something up with him to warrant all 16 clubs choosing to skip him. So to then whinge and scream about how we could have had him is just ridiculous. Anyone could have had him, but everyone passed decided to let him slide. We had the same reservations the rest of the competition had. The only thing that can be said about drafting is that, almost always, we have picked players where the general consensus suggests they should be picked. No one questioned taking Cale Morton with pick 4 in 2007. It was a question of which of Masten and Morton WC would take with 3, and we'd take the other (given Kreuzer and Cotchin were going to be gone already). No one complained. Now, of course, we can see that Morton has not worked for us. But in 2007, that was a pick that was totally fair. I'm happy to call drafting choices into question - when there is evidence to suggest the drafters made a choice that seemed odd at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and with hindsight we all become geniuses. And in most of our cases, if not all, there wasn't a howling at the time that we'd made a mistake, or that we'd picked someone from left field, or that we'd made an obviously dumb choice. Moreover, we have managed to pick up Tom McDonald with pick 53. You win some, you lose some. All you can do is pick the player you think deserves to be picked with your selection, and then hope that a combination of work ethic and training gets the potential out of the boy. That's where we've failed.

It's one thing getting rid of under-performers, or half dedicated, lazy footballers and another thing to get rid of a senior player who's in the leadership group and has stood up under adversity. One that will in all likelihood deservedly finish top 3 in the B&F. Clubs still have a fabric and while ours has been sorely tested we have to start being a club that rewards performance.

Rivers has had a great year....I think he is third on our marks tally. We don't need to get get rid of good experienced senior players thank you.

So Jnrmac, Totally agree in extending this to the MFC in it's current state. A chance to create a club culture from scratch, with 'untainted' players driving this change? As you mentioned, two very young leaders in Grimes and Trengove, Clark in his first year from another club, and only Jones being retained from the old leadership group, it's a very big statement, and was viewed as harsh, and perhaps it was, but maybe it was also very necessary as well. With Trengove, Grimes, Clark, Jones etc... we have a group of players that must attempt to adjust the culture at the MFC to where it needs to be. In regards to Col, I kinda agree with the sentiments of THBT in that not every player has to 'drive' the culture of the club, but they have to be accountable. Dane Swan is a good example. Fantastic player, and probably a great guy to have around the club, but he will always need to be kept in check. What he does bring to the club is personality, which I think is something that gets suppressed all to often these days. Sylvia is probably the closest player to our list to Swan (except in the fact that he hasn't reached his potential) (This last bit is for RPFC) Footy skills and height aside, I have heard, and believe Jack Viney is rated one of the drafts best prospects in terms of leadership, and you would expect him to both thrive in a good footy culture, but equally would be one of the players that could serve to reinforce culture as required too. Grimes was seen in a similar fashion when we drafted him....

4. Throw in obligatory Moneyball reference.

I hear Barty's personal trainer is named Phil. Can't remember his last name but it starts with an 'S'.

Better than Joel Mac more reliable than Garland calmer than Tommy Mc good third man up knows when to spoil or mark, he's ok.

I'll put my hand up as saying I don't think depth or competition for positions are very important. I'll also say that those things are independent of Rivers; I believe he's still best 22. Rivers hasn't exactly missed much footy on the back of McDonald being in the side this year, so I don't see why next year would be any different.

RR - so you presumably don't think either depth, or competition for positions is at all important then. Also he has shown some capability as a forward pinch hitter - similarly, is versatility not a factor?

The bye issue is one that needs to be worked through, but it's not terminal. Other than that, I can't see what's wrong with the current arrangement, I think it works pretty well. We've got a pretty big influence over what's happening at Casey and by the looks of it, their club is benefiting from it as well. They have access to our army of coaches for a start. If we're only one of several (or the only) team with a VFL alignment then it also might become easier for the VFL to schedule byes and breaks that line up with the AFL byes and breaks. LIke rpfc and diesel, I don't think we need to be sheep on this issue. Do what's best for the MFC; and I wouldn't be surprised if retaining the Casey/VFL alignment didn't prove to be the most cost effective solution for us, even if it's not the case for all the other Vic sides.

MFC Top 10 1. Clark 2. Jones. - Daylight - 3. Frawley 4. Grimes - Daylight - 5. Watts 6. Jamar 7. Trengove 8. Howe 9. Jurrah 10. Blease

Hey fellow demon fans!! My hubby and I have supported the Dees for 25 years, unfortunately we're had a bad few years but we're stickin with them! We're in a footy comp to win a grandfinal package and need your help, we're just in the lead to a suns fan! Please take a few seconds to vote for us and we would be so grateful! https://apps.opsm.com.au/fanfaceoff/index.cfm?action=fanfaceoff.gallery#popular Click on the link, click the POPULAR tab, click on the photo of our little boy up the top in Demons gear holding the footy, register a few details, go back to our photo and click vote!! If you would mind sharing the link to any friends that would be amazing! Carn the Dees!! Natalie

Wow...Collingwood as leaders of 'culture'....Didak and the bikie, Heath Shaw and his various, Swan now..... It is very easy to sit on high if you have been successful and tut tut about everybody else That comment about winning the Bluey and stop playing is a complete insult to Brad Green, if we had posters who showed the same amount of courage he does everytime he steps on the field ...it is quite easy to hide behind a nickname and be a keyboard hero Jnrmac if you think MFC is crap why do you support? I think a lot of the modern music is crap so I don't listen to it Aaron Davey has had a shocking run with injuries since and Brent Moloney is trying his guts out, it is just not working at the moment Culture is and has always been a 'buzz;' word........ Neeld has a vision for the future, whichever players buy in will stay, (if Sylvia buys in, which he seems to be doing, he will stay), those that don't will be gone The only 'culture' that should exist is to get better and better and win

BP: Yeah, but see Bails, if we pick HIM he'll take longer to develop but still be a gun, so we can be at the bottom a little bit longer and get MORE early draft picks to build a list of super talented kids! DB: Do it.

Agree 100%. It's almost like some posters here want to go back to the time when we were little more than a "gentleman's club" for public schoolboys who played "footy" on the weekends in winter and tennis or cricket in summer. AFL is big business - albeit in a fairly small pond. And, like in any business environment life is tough. But, if we were to go back to our glory days, when people like Brian Dixon was an amateur and played for a new fridge or other household appliance in lieu of player payments, so should all the other clubs too. Back then it was simple. No KPI's; no beep tests; no hi level data analysis of player performance and not much training either. That's why players are being shown up for what they are. I'm as sorry as anyone else to see Bard Green retire. I'm also sad to see that Beemer is struggling when put under the spotlight. In days gone by maybe these guys could have been 350+ game players. Maybe even if we had kept with Bailey they could hide - like a several of the 2000 GF group did during the last ND years and at first under DB. But, we are trying to bury all that and move up to the level of Hawthorn, Geelong, Collingwood - where this sort of thing is normal. We will not develop a winning culture by being sentimental when it comes to issues like this. Neeld might not get us there - but let's give him our support...because, I don't like the alternative.

, I agree that rational dicussion should be promoted but... Anyone promtoing instabillity at the club does not deserve the time of day. GNF wants to sack the board and coach, all because his mate has been asked to move on. (i don't have a firm opinion on Green retiring - he has been a great servant of the clube and I would have liked to see him have a crack at 1 more year if he though he was up to putting in 100% effort. but you know what life goes on) Again how can you take an opinion like that serious??? I love the irony of wanting to sack the coach after 12 months to create a better culture at the club. That will promote a great image of the club, I am sure sacking the coach right now will make the best and brightest in the league say hell yeh I want to go to that club who has no balls to take on a plan and stick it out. Take a close look at PAFC..... tell me you think they are on the right path or not? Some ppl need to get a life..... Neeld is in charge... Neeld will coach his way and bring in players to the club who want to play the way he is coaching if they like it or not.... It;s fine to have an option but to promote club instibility should not be tolorated by the supporters unless and only when it is obvious the best interests of the club are not being met. I don't know how anyone could prove that beyond a doubt at the moemnt??? The club is financially stable and has implemented new plans to improve the club - until it is proven that they are lying to the supporters and inept there is no need for a board spill Will Neeld and all these new plans work??? Who knows.... but he has 3 years to implement his views and people/supporters better learn to embrace the change.... or go and cry with Mike Sheehan If this all falls out arse end in a year or 2 I am more then happy to support change - until Neeld has had his fair crack I will not support or give the time of day to GNF's argument

Getting rid of Rivers would be the epitome of 'throwing out the baby with the bath water.' He's not that bad and has been a reliable player for the team this year. Extend.

If anyone just looked at their ceiling and shook their head - I'm with you.

Nutshell. It shits me no end when posters say we lack experienced players therefore we should keep every under performing or finished experienced player for that reason. We lack QUALITY senior players, hoarding all the crap on our list that has played 100+ games will not change that. Trading in quality experience & giving the inexperienced but potential quality players the opportunities to attain that experience will.

"But with the large combo we get a free 1.25 litre bottle of Coke."

Heavens above... Another one. Cue the three amigos. lol The best part was when the point of the thread - our lack of senior players due to Bailey - pivoted to John "My Friends" McCain here blaming Neeld for form and confidence issues, possible delistings of players that haven't left yet, and desired his instant removal.

I think I stubbed my toe on a big lump of irony.

at that time we did not know that pick would be so high though.

I thought I must've missed it. Have begun to completely skip their posts.

2 great points Jimmi that are changing the face of this once great game. Throwing and the penalisation of throwing has always been a part of our game. However, i've never seen such a blatant change to one of the core aspects of our game, the hand ball, as i've seen this year. Top players, and others in many of the top line teams are dileberately abusing the hand ball, effectively cheating, by continuing to throw, scoop and flick (2 handed with a trailing hand following in the direction of the throw to give the impression the ball has been fisted somehow.....in some circumstances it has but too few) the ball around when in tight congested contests and when under either real or perceived pressure, mostly in the rugby style rolling scrums you mention. However, when most players are in the clear, most of their hand balls, and i emphasise most not all, are legal as it's just too obvious to throw in the open and often the player would find it more effective to hand ball anyway in order to get the speed/accuracy/distance required to initiate an effective disposal. Frees for throwing are up substantially this year but personaly the umpires are missing/overlooking (under instruction to allow the fast flowing game style the AFL cronies wish for!!??) way too many and too many players/teams are getting away with it far too often and in my opinion this is the difference in tight clashes between the teams/players that are perfecting it and those that aren't even aware of it or aren't presently abusing it (cheating). And from what i've seen the MFC is one of those clubs who aren't even attempting it at this point. The experts, IMO..... Hawthorn, Collingwood and West Coast. Next on the rung but to a lessor extent, The Cats and The Bombres. I haven't seen enough of either Adelaide, Sydney or North Melbourne to say where they're at here. I would go so far as to say the top teams/players are being trained in the art as they're becoming so adept at it! Whether under instruction from within their FD or not, i have no idea. I realise skill levels are also comparatively and generally better in some of the top clubs versus the lessor ranked clubs but there's no doubt the game of AFL is changing before our very eyes into a flick/throwing style game with the hand ball slowly but surely becoming extinct at this rate. I've been watching the game for decades now. But i've never looked at it in such poor light as i have this year. Slowly buit surely it's becoming unwatchable and the throw/scoop/flick as well as the rolling scrums are both playing a large part in this for me. The hand ball is one instance where i would argue the regulators are either deliberitaly failing to regulate, inept at regulating or incapable or regulating effectively due to the nature/scramble of the rolling scrums.

1 amigo 3 DL accounts

31yo. May want to fix that... Edit: Actually I could go on, I disagree with most of it including the bit about half the list struggling mentally ...... . Most out of touch POV I've read in one single post. NFI.

Some say that a picture tells a thousand words. Apparently none of those words is 'Melbourne to take Jack Viney even if price slightly inflated' according to a few on here... 'Committed' would be a word that springs from those pictures. Nah, but maybe I am wrong - maybe he isn't everything we want - maybe he is more of a Pick 5 than a Pick 4...

yes, but will Sh!t me. Worth the pick but jeez its annoying

Kevin Pietersen has been dropped from the 3rd test team for sending South Africa players text messages during the 2nd test criticising Strauss - maybe because it's because he's already signed at Richmond? lol

I went to the VFL on the weekend & the umpiring (or perhaps more aptly the way the umpires were allowed to officiate) was a much better standard. It was almost like watching a different sport. No ticky touchwood freekicks, goal umpires were allowed to make decisions without there being a 5 minute muppet conference, no holding the ball when there was no prior opportunity, no hypersensitive 50m penalties (I think the players on the ground were talking in some kind of code involving the f & c bombs), no hands in the back, no arm chops, incorrect disposal was paid & there were no horrible rolling mauls. Unfortunately none of the Umps could bounce the ball to save themselves - under AA & the Giesch's watch that probably means they have no future.