Leaderboard

The last time Melbourne’s win-loss ratio was in the positive after round 22 was at the end of the 2006 season. In what had become a typical scenario under Neale Daniher, the club limped into the finals, blowing a top four chance with a generally pathetic last seven games for the third season in succession. The season had started poorly with the Dees sitting winless after three rounds, but they recovered after a gutsy win over reigning premier Sydney to sit 3rd on the ladder at round 15 before the aforementioned slump. In 121 matches since, the club; has won just 31 matches had 5 senior coaches 3 Presidents 4 CEO’s 75 players represent the club 37 debutants Needless to say, there has been mass upheaval at the MFC and ultimately failure has been the outcome. The performance of the team and the misery heaped on the club by the AFL’s 24 hour news circle jerk media has been a major source of pain for all Demons’ fans. This has lead to a lot of revisionist history in the media and on fan forums. Melbourne’s drafting, list management, player development, coaching, culture, sponsorship and administration have all been pawed over. A lot of blame has been pointed at past leaders, boards, recruiters, coaches, and their management strategies. Melbourne fans are right to be angry with the lack of competitiveness of the team and the media do have every right to criticise the club where fit. However, it is ultimately up to the playing group on match day to represent the club and therefore how it is perceived. It is understandable that a team which has had virtually 3 teams worth of players (1 and a half worth of debutants) in the past five and a bit years has lost more than it has won. However, what would infuriate fans en masse (no matter their expectations of the team) is that there hasn’t appeared to be a set of team non negotiable behaviours at the club. How many times under a high ball will two or more Melbourne players jump all over one another whilst the staying down, unopposed opposition player sharks it? How many times do Melbourne players get caught or turn over the ball because their team mates are flat footed, not shepherding/blocking, not running to be an option? How many times do Melbourne players stand with their hands on their hips, heads bowed after the opposition gets a run on? Negative body language, a lack of communication and lack of care for each other have been hallmarks of Melbourne’s game for far too long. It is the reason Daniher’s teams didn’t cause damage in September and it is why there are blowouts such as last weekend. While the team will surely improve with more experience and the cyclical nature will drag other teams down, Melbourne will never be much more than mediocre and the fan base never ultimately satisfied if the playing group doesn’t zealously adopt a team first intensity and attitude. The game plan, coaching, recruiting, player development, administration and past actions taken by the club are all essentially moot points until a future MFC playing group commits to some very basic non negotiables: CHIN UP – No negative body language, hands on hips etc CARE & COMMIT – protect and support your team mates, shepherd, block, tackle, chase, honour leads, never back down. DEMAND THE FOOTBALL – whether committing to a contest or running to be an option TRY, TRY AGAIN – if the opposition gets a run on lift your workrate RINSE AND REPEAT – week after week, season after season. Thoughts? Flames?

Mitch Clark kicked 5 goals last week. Ben Hudson is dropped this week. Do people still regard Matthew's opinion too highly?

Wish he was list manager solely so we could see the headline "Lamb chops Dunn"

C'mon Cale, I haven't given up on you yet. It's all gone to poo, but it's up to you to turn it around and now you're being given a chance. Do it! I couldn't be happier with these changes. I might've given Dunn the flick before Petterd, but that's probably more due to a personal bias than an objective view.

Just hope my info is correct, a secondary sponsor could also be announced.This will put a very strong smile on my face, if it is true- Good luck -Go Dees.

I wish I could just casually bring up my plans for a $10 000 holiday . . .

New member here, and probably won't post much, but this is great news. Webjet is a company going places, just like the Demons.

I have to say that Petterd is very stiff not to be given more game time.

I'm led to believe that we have an agreement in place that the Collingwood assistant recruiter Jason Taylor will be announced as our head recruiter at the start of the 2013 season. My understanding is that whilst he has accepted to take on the role Collingwood has refused to release him from his contract, going against somewhat of an AFL convention that staff are free to pursue more enticing positions. This is why Eddie came out a few months ago in the media and threw that hissy fit.

Its like ChildCare rpfc, people now are just obsessed about outsourcing anything/everything in their life Hmmm, wonder if we could outsource a team whilst we (re)develop our youngsters on the side

Let's hope Cam has sent a friend request to the CEO's facebook account before signing anything.

Richmond coming off two high pressure games against big clubs could be slightly complacent for this one. Melbourne finally not on the front page of the paper everyday this week can actually direct their focus 100% to football. I'm tipping an upset and grabbing some of the $4 odds on offer.

Thanks HT, A pertinent thread that is what this one is trying to get at.... Feel free to merge if necessary! I think the new leadership group announced in February was probably in recognition of the need to set a new standard and culture. However, in the first two matches - the head dropping and poor body language has still been evident, along with not shepherding, jumping all over one another etc. It really needs to be addressed, probably with an iron fist at the selection table.

I think supporters are allowed to feel whatever way they are feeling. If they are disappointed, then they are disappointed. It also nonsense that we, as supporters, beget these pathetic displays by our team with any 'infectious hopelessness.' Look at the depression of Demonland after Rd 1, 2010 - the team then came out and played a great game against the eventual premiers. If the boys show some heart, we will be heartened.

For better or worse we have him till the end of 2013. At his best he has been one of the Dees best players, he had speed and his kicking to position was amazing to watch. For whatever reason we have not seen to much from him since he was injured in 2010. IMO we probably will not see him ever again back to those previous levels. However at 80% of 2010 he is better than the those who could replace him. I believe the FD will try to get him back there for most of 2012. In the end do we have a choice?

Supporters should be able to call it as we see it. I don't see where denial gets us anywhere. We are serial underperformers The truth....can it set us free? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yB7J7DYi6M edit: link and spelling

FYI Melbourne's classic comeback against Fremantle from Rd 7 2008 will be screened on FOX FOOTY next Tuesday (April 17th) Cheers Rhett

31 win out of 121 game. But how good do the wins feel when you are that bad.

Agree... I think that what Davey provides is the "perceived" threat... opponents can put pressure on themselves because of Davey's reputation rather than his actual current level of performance.

As I said in the other thread... We all need to understand that footy clubs know players really well, and naturally they would rate the hell out of Davey, his skills are amazing despite losing a step of pace, so they would want him in the team. Also that being said his lost a step of pace means he is still quicker than 80% of the league... At the end of the day Davey HAS proven something, he has proven over many years that he is the most skillful player in this god awful team. One of the only players who can deliver the ball by foot, and can at least make something positive happen. He was bad alot of last season and in round 1... But considering how bad our team is I am not even a little bit surprised that the coaches want to rush him back in the team.

The Bombers didn't seem to have to wait too long for junior players to come on or the team to learn a new game plan either - they hit the ground running and made finals. I hate the bastards but one thing you can't accuse them of is making excuses for poor performance.

Thank god you didn't say tall and skinny, then we'd have no hope in guessing who it (allegedly) was...

Agree. A couple of players make a big difference if they are good. Take out Rioli and Franklin from Hawthorn and they are nowhere near as good. Same with Pendles and Thomas or Swan from Pies, Judd and Murphy from Blues. We need to add a couple of class mids and maybe with our 3 picks in the first round this year we will do exactly that.

That only equates to 1 goal 4 points, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Cats should dump Hawkins Cloke will never be any good Kruezer is a big hack who's always injured And Watts will never make it in the Afl Blah, blah,blah,blah,blah. I read Jon Ralph and Jake Niall so I know these things .

If you listen to the wise men of the game speak on the subject of player development, they will invariably tell you that these days you need to get at least 50 games into the legs of your young players before they start to produce the standard of football necessary to bring success to your team. The number of games required for bigger bodied players is even greater. I heard a discussion on radio about Tom Hawkins yesterday where it was mentioned that, in his seventh season at Geelong, he is finally living up to his potential. Yet these same pundits are passing judgement on Jack Watts in his fourth season after entering the system as a bottom aged schoolboy still doing his VCE. What these judges have overlooked is that for all their good intentions our recruiters selected a number of players whose progress has been slowed drastically and many of these have yet to reach that 50 game mark or will only reach it well behind schedule due to injuries. There have been other reasons that have resulted in slower development of the players but the table below indicates where many of our recently recruited young players stand in terms of games actually played against the total possible games during their time at the club:- Sam Blease 6 (68) Lucas Cook 0 (24) Jack Fitzpatrick 1 (46) Max Gawn 4 (46) Jack Grimes 34 (90) Jordan Gysberts 18 (46) Cale Morton 64 (90) James Strauss 11 (68) Luke Tapscott 15 (46) Jack Trengove 39 (46) Jack Watts 42 (68) ........................................ Tom Scully (gone) but with compensation picks to come. The injuries incurred by many on this list have been either long term, multiple or both and have definitely held back the development of our playing list. When you add those to injuries to players like Liam Jurrah, Colin Sylvia, Brent Moloney and others currently together with disappointing input from the likes of veterans in Green, Davey and Jamar, it goes some way to explaining the black hole we're in at the moment. All clubs have injuries but I don't think anyone had anywhere near the 15 players missing last weekend. Perhaps, some people might see this as excuse making but the figures in the table suggest we shouldn't be giving up yet on our last rebuild just yet.

I dont subscribe to the theory our recruiting has been terrible from 07 onwards. We've had our share of hits and misses just like any other club. Hindsight drafting is the easiest profession in the world and I don't particularly remember many of our picks getting slammed at the time we selected them. Most players have played less than 50 games, the media cycle is becoming more intense and they all have the attention spans of goldfish. Case in point - the media getting stuck into Guy McKenna because coaching a second year club that arent world beaters. FFS! Yes, some of our picks arent as advanced as we'd like but they were picked with an 8 to 10 year view. We are rubbish because our senior players are rubbish, the under 50 matches, under 22's cannot compete consistently yet. When we have shown moderate improvement in 2010 (& in small spurts in 09) - Davey & Green won B&F's, Mark Jamar was All Australian, James McDonald was James McDonald and Brent Moloney, Colin Sylvia & Cameron Bruce were playing pretty solid football. Zero of that form is being shown at the moment for various reasons and its telling on the scoreboard.

I get the concern and I'm angry and concerned after each loss this year. I had higher expectations this year after many positive changes at the club. I see alot of negatives compounded by many off field issues in recent weeks. The fact remains it's too early to call. Neeld is two weeks of game time into a coaching career. He will evolve and develop Watts is realistically a year behind Nic Nat and Hurley as he is a year younger. He is also 5 to 8 kgs behind them. Blease is a veteran of 6 games, 1 as a sub. Too many expect him to play like a seasoned performer. He is also a year behind the eight ball due to a serious leg break and poor fitness base Strauss is also a baby who will develop later due to injury. Tapscott is in the same boat. Both have shown glimpses that they can play AFL level but they won't win games this year. Gys has played 17 promising games averaging 20 possessions without size and a fitness base too I'm hoping and think the expectation of players who have little experience is unfair. The expectation is built on potential only and we are being unfair expecting consistent results from them. Our captains are babies game wise too with Grimes development hindered by injury too. He may have matured into a good leader but he is young and behind by 40 to 50 games. I will continue to watch the development of the youth and expect the 80 to 100 game plus players to perform. Having said this I'll understand that IRS hard carrying inexperience too. To me Green, Davey, Rivers, Jamar, Moloney, Batram and co need to lift. Clark (goal output only) and Jones are the only positives. Magner too Howe is another who has too high expectations on him and I fear for Viney and the 2 first rounders in the next draft.

Hope so. I tend to agree though my generation has "seen it all before". Melbourne do have a very good crop of young talent. We must be patient with this. Sometimes have to take a little step back again to go forward. OK...imagine Collingwood without Cloke, Pendlebury and Swan. Would they have won on the weekend without these guys. Our 3 of Sylvia, Jurrah and Moloney are not of that class but they are Melbourne's 3 best. Mix this with the sadness of JIm's passing, change of game style and Jamar's lack of form. Be patient. Melbourne may yet win 10 games this season. This week is crucial.

Hmmn, he copied our thesis, & produced his article. He's right tho. Thats whats happened. BUT !!! We have NOT recruited badly!!! Those boys are all talented. But compared to the heavier stronger boys recruited by other clubs,,, ours will develop but slower because they're lighter. But more talented. 'Our boys', because of their strengths, learned to play a game based around Using those strengths. Now they have to learn a differing style, which they will. Bennell & Blease included... it will take a little bit of time, just as it would if they played elsewhere... In the meantime, we have started on a mature age hard bodied 'speed up development process'. With other tough & talented players, coming your way Soon. . We started last draft recruiting a tougher brand of kid, since Mitch Robinson did Us the Biggest favour of Labelling us, 'Bruise Free'... His honesty has kickstarted us into a reality we've avoided for Decades... That fateful loss to Carlton will IMO, be the most Important game in our recent history of the Last 20 Years... It Stung, & the truth Hurt. It's awoken Us the the reality of AFL.

Totally agree Bonkers. I would imagine the "true" inside mids that we had/have in Jones and Moloney was seen by BP/DB as starting the foundations. They added in Tapscott, and to some degree McKenzie, and of course Trengove, who can all go in and win their own ball. It will be interesting to see what Blease, Gysberts, Morton and Strauss are like when they are actually adults. I still think they are boys in this league, and the teams that have "grown up" (Geelong, West Coast, Hawthorn, and Collingwood and Carlton - the latter 2 I believe have only just become men), are just physically and mentally making us look insipid.

This is a quote from Teddy Roosevelt and a favourite of mine. I often think of this when certain journalists decide to give a particular young player of ours a constant trial by media! “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”

If you really want to "know things" about football listen to Mark Robinson!

I like it. I'm just over the slower bodies in the midfield. I also am not sure what role Davey can call his own unless he can give us some zip out of the middle so we can deliver a controlled and targetted disposal. I'd like to see him given a chance as an outside mid. 'Chasing tails' referred to our often slow midfield always being 2 steps behind their opponents coming out of stoppages. It wasn't a response to your lineup, just a justification (attempted) for mine.

No shame in taking the 4 to 1.I will take their money.

Absolutely right. TC played two blinders on Piggy and Peter Rodhe kept Dermie quiet both weeks as well. Few thought we could back up and beat the Hawks two weeks in a row... how sweet was it when we did. Miss those days.

I don't know why, but I'm starting to feel like we do have this.. All we need to do is get off to a good start. We do that, we win. This game will kick off our season. Bookmark it.

That's a key omission in the article. Blease lost two years of football getting over his broken ankle, while Strauss had other serious injuries prior to his broken leg last year. It's not just Strauss and Blease. Every new recruit we've picked b/w 10 and 20 since 2007 has suffered long spells on the sideline (Grimes - pick 14 2007, Blease and Strauss in 2008, Gysberts and Tapscott in 2009, and Cook in 2010). Strauss, Grimes, Tapscott and Cook all spent time in rehab over the Summer. These guys aren't developing because we cannot get them to play enough football. Here's our other main problem. Where have all our seniors gone? There has been a huge drop in performance from our senior list. I'm not sure if there's a curse on our best and fairest award, but the last 5 guys to win the Bluey Truscott are all on senior lists, and none are starring for the MFC. These guys may not have been superstars, but they were key players and we are missing them big time. Even Jamar is well down on his form in 2010, and Sylvia may be injured, but he had just one kick before being injured in the last quarter against Port. In a successful club, good older players can get moved aside by younger better players. I think of Mooney and Hawkins or Medhurst and Jarryd Blair. That's not happening at Melbourne because of the injuries to our younger players. We have been trying to develop kids by playing them in the firsts, even though they are not physically ready, and that has weakened the culture of the club. They should only get a game when they deserve their spot. The other thing that stuffs us at the moment, is that lack of 'big game time'. Geelong and Hawthorn get better because they regularily play top class games against each other. What are we going to learn from a match where West Coast beat us by 108 points? How to chase and tackle and hit targets under pressure? Well we didn't do any of that on Saturday, and we certainly aren't learning how to win. Maybe this is why the gap b/w top and bottom is getter bigger each year.

Problem solving.

and the classic "Stretch Marks"

I don't know if you watched the Geelong Hawthorn match on Sunday. Tom Hawkins. Drafted in 2006. It's now 2012. Cook was AA CHF. He earned the right to go at pick 12, and he's earned the right to be given some time before we start passing judgement. If 6 years after he was drafted he can manage 12 marks and 22 disposals against a likely Grand Finalist - as Hawkins did on Sunday - fine with me. On half of these threads we have people criticising us because we let the likes of Thompson and Jolly go too soon, and the other half we have people who can't wait to shunt everyone out the door after 2 or 3 seasons if they aren't already AA.

If players are "lost" it is because they had it so easy in the (NB)/ND/DB years and don't actually know what hard work is all about. Don't know what match hardness is all about. Don't know what gut running is all about. Don't know what team work and sacrifice of one's own game is all about. If ANY player doesn't like the new regime, they know where the door is. IF we had appointed another "players mate" our doom would be sealed. I am glad some players may not like him - if they have the fortitude to stick around, work hard and honour their teammates, they will I am sure also enjoy the success that will follow.

Can everyone ease up on Watts. He is far from a dud pick despite what the NikNat loving media would have you believe.

I maintain that clubs should always look to have a balance of tall, small, fast and tough players no matter the latest trend in how the game is played.

It's not all bad - arrived in today's post:

I'm talking about the mindset. Eventually, we will stop saying 'it will come, give it time' (or words to that effect) and start saying 'this isn't good enough for the present'. I like thinking about when that moment will come.

Good post. The bolded bit is the bit that gets me, though. That concept of time. That if we wait, we will get there. There has to come a point when we can no longer simply point to 'time' and say 'with time, we will be OK'. We said the same thing in 2008 when we won three games. Four years later, we're still saying 'give it time'. You see what I mean? Surely, at some point, the focus has to shift from what we might become in the future to what we ought to be now.

Arguing over who should be in or out at Melbourne is a bit like arguing over a preference for the electric chair or lethal injection. Young players need the senior group to lead the way. Without any exaggeration our senior group, and I don't mean leadership group, is the worst I've seen in my time following footy. Our 25+ age group has no-one that inspires confidence, or impacts games. Green, Davey, Sylvia, Moloney, Rivers, Jamar, Joel MacDonald and Stefan Martin are the only players over the age of 25 on our list. Green has had a fine career, but he's finished and the rest are disappointing and certainly miles off the upper echelon of the AFL. Those group of 8 players are the reason we're crud. The fact we only have 8 players over the age of 25 is also one of the reasons we're crud. Hawthorn have 19. Carlton and Collingwood have 14. But more importantly some of their senior players are bona fide stars of the game, which is a far cry from our miserable 8. Even the Crows and Port have 13. There is talent on the list, but we can't expect young players with less than 50 games experience to dominate games of footy. Col Garland feels like he's been around forever, but he's still 23 (nearly 24) and has only 60 games to his name. His best footy is ahead of him. And for these reasons I'm not slitting my wrist and can still glimpse the future. To all and sundry, even the experts, it looks like our list is crap, and the dearth of quality senior players ensures we're in for a tough year, but I like plenty of our young players. It's really disappointing that due to injury concerns we haven't seen enough of Strauss, Tapscott, and Gysberts, but if you put many of our developing players in the West Coast side they too would look terrific and be lauded by the football world. How would Andrew Gaff have looked if he was running around for Melbourne yesterday ? You'd see his talent, but he wouldn't have had half the game he did. Unfortunately, there's going to be more pain until we get strength and preseasons into the younger players. When their time does come - and it will - I'm expecting a pretty steely resolve. These tough years will be etched into their psyche. Akermanis, Simon Black, Bradshaw, the Scott Bros, Keating, Leppitsch, Power, Chris Johnson and McCrae all played in 98 when the Lions won the spoon. They'd all played less than 100 games. Obviously it's drawing a ridiculously long bow to suggest we'll win one flag, let alone three, but there would have been times through that season when Lions' supporters doubted their talent. When some would have been questioning whether their kids were good enough ? Needless to say, in 1998 not one Brisbane player made All Australian. In 2001 they had 4 and by 2002 they had 6. All of those players were on the list in 98. That said, we're no Lions of 99 who rebounded back up the ladder with a new coach. They had Lappin, Voss, Alistair Lynch, Ashcroft and a couple of other senior players showing the way, which gets back to the heart of our problem. We're in for some more hurt, but I'm certain we do have some very good young players on our list and while that's the case I know things aren't as bad as they seem.

Changing the 22 is not going to solve the inherent, underlying problems at this football club. Whichever 22 we pick, we are going to have the same lack of leadership, the same lack of skill, the same lack of speed, the same lack of fitness, the same inability to react under pressure, the same unresponsive coach, the same undersized midfield, the same lazy players, and the same two or three to whom too much is left. Our list is utter tripe.