Disciplinary problems within the team

[Jaded No More 58,223]

My take on proceedings is that Bailey's game plan should be based on our players strengths, which will at least allow us to be competitive.

So basically we should forever be a mildly competitive, highly mediocre club which bends backwards to please its under performing players.

Dean Bailey has every right to tell his players what he thinks of their pathetic, lifeless performances. These players are part of a super competitive, cut-throat industry. Criticism is a big part of their job, and if they can't handle the heat they need to reconsider their career options.

I don't care if Bailey alienates some of our players, because frankly any player who is worth anything will not let some discipline get in the way of their commitment to the club.

For too long our players have been given the benefit of the doubt, and have done nothing but disappoint us. Every week it's the same old "we need to work harder for each other", "we need to remain positive". Yuck! Clearly what has been done in the past hasn't worked. I welcome a new approach, which may see us struggle for a while, but which has a better chance of fixing our fundemental problems with attitude and discipline.

As for the club not being able to survive a few years of bad on-field performances, that is entirely up to our supporter base. If you stick with the program, if you turn up to games, if you continue to buy your membership, and if above all you don't stop supporting the new direction of the club, then we WILL survive and we'll be better for it.

Screw the media, the hype, the over- dramatization. I'll be damned if I let slime like Hutchison bring my club down.

[mo64 5,209]

So basically we should forever be a mildly competitive, highly mediocre club which bends backwards to please its under performing players.

Dean Bailey has every right to tell his players what he thinks of their pathetic, lifeless performances. These players are part of a super competitive, cut-throat industry. Criticism is a big part of their job, and if they can't handle the heat they need to reconsider their career options.

I don't care if Bailey alienates some of our players, because frankly any player who is worth anything will not let some discipline get in the way of their commitment to the club.

For too long our players have been given the benefit of the doubt, and have done nothing but disappoint us. Every week it's the same old "we need to work harder for each other", "we need to remain positive". Yuck! Clearly what has been done in the past hasn't worked. I welcome a new approach, which may see us struggle for a while, but which has a better chance of fixing our fundemental problems with attitude and discipline.

As for the club not being able to survive a few years of bad on-field performances, that is entirely up to our supporter base. If you stick with the program, if you turn up to games, if you continue to buy your membership, and if above all you don't stop supporting the new direction of the club, then we WILL survive and we'll be better for it.

Screw the media, the hype, the over- dramatization. I'll be damned if I let slime like Hutchison bring my club down.

Jaded, you still didn't answer the question "What is the role of the coach?". If the players are displaying "pathetic, lifeless performances", maybe the coaches' communication and motivation skills need addressing. Players aren't robots. They have different emotions, and not all people respond to criticism the same way. By the way, I agree that the players are displaying pathetic, lifeless performances.

As for our future, whilst we as a club continue to bury our head in the sand, and not realise that we are 2 bad years away from being a financial basket case again, we will continue to be target of the media. Stop the spin doctoring, with bad on-field performances, our financial position will worsen. That's a fact, not media over-dramatization.

[Bruce Almighty 0]

Just reading this on 'ology. Hope it's not true, but wouldn't surprise given recent performances/selections.

An interesting conversation

Paradigm Pete Posted on Tue 01/04/08 08:47:19

Member #

Date joined

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29/06/2005

412

Having been overseas on business I have only just managed to watch replays of our first two games. Apart from the skill errors, lack of applied pressure etc, what really stood out was the fact that the players looked (for 6 of the 8 quarters) that they were simply going through the motions.

I then rang my brother-in-law in Melbourne (MFC & MCC member) who told me he had heard the following:

* DB really laid down the law to the players after the pre season games. He interviewed each player seperately and gave those that deserved it, the mother of all sprays.

* A number of the players have "rebelled" and one in particular was made an example of (Colin Sylvia).

* Following the Hawthorn debacle, ANOTHER round of one on ones were held and the players copped it again.

* Moloney fired up and walked out during his session. Newton and Bailey had VERY strong words. Two other players also fired back.

* At half time in the Bulldogs game, specific players were given another burst resulting in an "up yours DB" when the game resumed.

Having just watched both games, that made very logical sense.

From my own point of view, should this be true, I don't mind it at all. The coach has drawn a line in the sand and players either toe the line or cross it and leave.

I hope thats True, Who do the players think they are. Go Dean Bailey!

[Jaded No More 58,223]

Jaded, you still didn't answer the question "What is the role of the coach?".

The main role of the coach involves:

- Getting the best from his players

- Managing his players on and off the field

- Creating a winning game plan

- Enforcing team rules

If Dean Bailey thinks that his players need a harsh reality check in order for him to achieve his role, than he is entitled to give them one whenever he pleases.

Having been at the club for 4 months, he has clearly given our players the benefit of the doubt. He's given them ownership of team rules, let them choose their leadership group, and has given all of our senior players an opportunity to shine during the pre-season and in Round 1.

He has given them enough leniency. Given that they have failed miserably to adhere to any of his rules, he should now start handing out punishment. If players don't like it, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

And as I said, we cannot remain a mildly competitive, highly mediocre club just because we're too scared to bite the bullet and go through a proper rebuild. How many years will we survive without a premiership? Another 40? I doubt it.

If our club can't survive 2 years of poor performances and significant on-field change, then there is really no point in even trying to get better. We might as well just give up, and close our doors.

It is the club's main objective to be successful on the field. On field success breeds off field success, so no matter how hard we have to fight to achieve it, we are better off struggling for a short period in order to achieve the ultimate success that we desperately need.

One year is a very short time in 150 years of history.

[mo64 5,209]

On field success breeds off field success

Hawthorn of the '70s, '80s and early '90's, North Melbourne of the '90s, and Brisbane of the 2000's defy this assertion.

[Jaded No More 58,223]

Hawthorn of the '70s, '80s and early '90's, North Melbourne of the '90s, and Brisbane of the 2000's defy this assertion.

So you don't think it's going to be easier for us to get members on board, and sponsors on board if we win a flag?

Of course you have to have the off-field stability first, but I firmly believe that we are on the right track off the field. We are stable, we are getting our finances in order and we have a new CEO, unfortunately the crap that's been going on on the field, is letting everyone down.

If we were winning by 100 points, the media would print stories about how well we've managed to restructure our club, how wonderful it is that we're finally going to have a state-of-the-art home etc etc.. It's because we're losing so badly that they are writing negative, often made-up stuff about our club as a whole.

We cannot just keep floating around making minimal on field impact in the hope that one day 15 teams will decide to let us win a flag.

For many years now Daniher tried compensating for our lack of stars, and unsuccessfully copied successful models of previous premiership teams. Bailey doesn't want to do that. He wants to get to the bottom of our problems, strip away the years of poor discipline and attitude, and finally get us on the right path. I am behind him 100% and will support any of his decisions in the short term at least.

Anyone who thinks that we're going to get better by simply letting our senior players play their own natural style, is deluding themselves. The fact is that our senior players will NEVER win us a premiership, and most will be gone by 2010. The only chance of survival, for senior and inexperienced players alike, is to start following the new football model that Bailey has set up.

[Supreme_Demon 3,011]

I'm glad if Dean Bailey is giving the Melbourne players hell! They deserve to be given a HARSH reality check! <_<

The ENTIRE playing group need to harden up! :angry:

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Hawthorn of the '70s, '80s and early '90's, North Melbourne of the '90s, and Brisbane of the 2000's defy this assertion.

With the exception of North, they actually support it.

[Geddy Lee 582]

I'd be very happy if DB is doing this.

I bet they don't know what's hit them.

[mo64 5,209]

With the exception of North, they actually support it.

Then explain why the Hawks were a proposed merger candidate? And during their premiership years, Brisbane weren't making huge profits, if any.

[Jarka 767]

With the exception of North, they actually support it.

Yeah, I agree.

The hawks built up a huge supporter base during their dominant years, which was mostly dormant until we sparked them into action /sigh

Brisbane was struggling until their success as well.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Then explain why the Hawks were a proposed merger candidate? And during their premiership years, Brisbane weren't making huge profits, if any.

The Hawks got themselves in a financial hole in 1990's when they committed to a facilities development at Glenferrie Oval on leasehold land where one of the major contractors on the job was associated with a Hawks Board member. It was a dumb financial decision which reeked of conflict of interests given there were questions over the viability of Glenferrie oval as base. They burnt the largesse of the 70's and 80's in that debacle.

Even during its dark days some years ago the Hawks still pull a lazy 30 to 35,000 members. In the 60's they were a peripheral suburban basket case.

Brisbane are now making solid profits with strong corporate support which they did not have before they won the flags.

I dont understated your skepticism of Jaded's simple statement when you are on the other bemoaning the process DB is implementing because it adversely affects the financial position of the Club. Nothing like buttering the bread on both sides.

[Face Your Demons 175]

If any of this is true then the players in question should NEVER be given the chance to wear the red and blue again. [censored] them off now.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Ive spoken to others about this..and we agree...there will be no real chnace of a rebuild and going forward til all of the old ways are purged. ...and to do that you need to get rid of any "old way ' player.

Sometimes you dont renovate..you knock down and rebuild...but you can recycle !!

[grazman 6,485]

If any of this is true then the players in question should NEVER be given the chance to wear the red and blue again. [censored] them off now.

I doubt that's Bailey's style. He's interested in results. I don't have a problem with players being proud, some of them will naturally buck against criticism, but they have to learn to accept it, if they can't then that's when they'll learn the hard way. Bailey doesn't seem the type to get too perturbed about conflict with players - in fact I think he'll expect to see some angst as part of the process. Moloney was omitted. He failed to play on the weekend for Sandy because of a corky. Want to bet he doesn't play for the seniors against Geelong this week? The players have been given to rd 6. Anyone who hasn't taken on board his lessons by then is fair game -for the coaching staff and for us as supporters.

And as for players choosing which club they want to go to they'd do well to remember that Bailey came from a club that let their most prolific ball winner walk in the preseason draft rather than get bent over. They reaped the rewards the following year as well. ( and do you reckon Port supporters don't remind Stevens about it every time he plays against them)

[Roger Mellie 3,530]

Not wanting to lend credence to the original rumour but Bailey reminds me a little of Blight when he took over at the Crows. He got rid of the trouble makers and players who thought they were bigger than the club (eg. MacDermott). He also put an end to the players only lounge or whatever it was and no doubt told a few home truths. The rest is history and I hope we are heading down the same path (although I'm not sure we have quite the same cattle).

[tess 19]

Not wanting to lend credence to the original rumour but Bailey reminds me a little of Blight when he took over at the Crows.

Im glad you didnt say when Blight took over at St Kilda.

[drdrake 3,038]

We have players on our list that no matter how bad they played for the past 10 years they played every week except when injured and even then played. It would be a shock to them this was true. I wouldn't think though this would be the case with younger players he prides himself on being an educator and he is smart enough to know which players can cop a bake.

If players at the end of the year want to leave good bye most of them on present form aren't good enough for other clubs to want them.

[grazman 6,485]

The original rumour was quite funny, Players who supposedly didn't like the Bailey regime were going to go and play under Neil Craig. Craig if far from popular with the Crows players, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I'd tipped them to bottom out for probably the last three years... He knows how to coach - even if the players wont have a beer with them I'm sure they enjoy winning a hell of a lot more than getting belted every week.

[Rogue 585]

Interesting 'rumour', but we'll probably never know whether there's any credence to it.

As someone said, it's easy to create a 'rumour' to fit facts. That said, it could be true. *shrug

You have to focus on the end result, not the process.

We might be losing by 100 points now, but at least we are taking drastic steps to change the attitude and structure of our football club.

I don't know how much truth is in the original post, but I am certain that Bailey has had words with many of the players and that many of them probably didn't like it a whole lot. It's because they can't take criticism and because they are struggling to change that we're getting belted at the moment.

The beauty of it is that they have until Round 6. After that, they can start packing their bags as far as I'm concerned.

Short term pain for long term gain.

Is it just me, or does the second line contradict with the first?

Im glad you didnt say when Blight took over at St Kilda.

Haha, indeed.

[52k2 0]

People keep refering to DB game plan? I have watched the make believe demons 4 times this year and bugger me if I can find a game plan uther than pass badly and handball in circles until we turn it over.

IMO the best we played was game 1 against geelong in the preseason comp, we got close and looked threatening in the third qtr. I said it then and I will say it again you practice like crap you play like crap, can we tell the players the season has started and we are allowed to try now.

PS I will be there on sunday standing at the northern end, you can tell me because I will be the old grey haired bastard in the DEMONS bomber jacket. I wouldnt mind meeting some of you so I will be able to put a face to some of the posts.

[Jerry Lundergard 382]

It's interesting that the way we are going about it this year has already been compared to the Hawks when Clarko took over. If i remember correctly in his first year, he pulled the hammer down pretty hard on Crawf for missing a team function. Crawford seemed dispirited early that year and even talked of retirement. Spider Everitt was another who clearly did not like the regime of discipline that was enforced upon the Hawks, and he was moved on at the end of the year.

Crawford has now obviously fallen into line and bought into what the Hawks were trying to achieve, and may reap the benefits. So hopefully a few of our senior players can use this as an example of how they can deal with situation that is being presented to them.

[Cards13 9,117]

Ive spoken to others about this..and we agree...there will be no real chnace of a rebuild and going forward til all of the old ways are purged. ...and to do that you need to get rid of any "old way ' player.

Sometimes you dont renovate..you knock down and rebuild...but you can recycle !!

Yea but BB we've got this farken ghost of Norm Smith rubbish and we've never been the same since the schisms of when he was sacked and the MCC and the MFC spliting.. at what point do we purge???

I'm tired of hearing blame for what happened before I was born and what happened with the MCC for where we are at off field and on field.

Lets have a sacrifical purging of all the of the previous issues up until........ now.. no now.... hang on from ....... now...

Seriously there are always teething issues with change. You take the majority of people out the there comfort zone they feel threatened and not in control. The people who are doing there job are the ones who generally move with the times, the ones who [censored] and moan and kick up a fuss are generally the ones who have been not working to full capacity. (notice I said generally)

[beelzebub 22,225]

whose talking of Smith..I was referring to Danihers Damsels !!

[Eastie Boyz 0]

But a mass exodus at the end of the season will take us where??

Lets say Moloney, Newton, Petterd, Sylvia, McLean, Buckley & Green are all given massive sprays week in and week out. I mean I know I could only take it for so long, before I came to despise the person doing it, ie: boss and would probably look to go and work somewhere else.

If they do crack it and leave it obviously means they didn't listen to DB the first time round and keep making the same mistakes over and over. Melbourne would do well to get rid of those types of players