Clayton Oliver

[Redleg 40,776]

34 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

one wonders what role connors played in all this

there was a nice pot of money in this for him ... maybe follow the money

just sayin

Don’t think so.

He is currently getting probably 4% of Clarrry’s salary and that wouldn’t have increased and could have decreased.

[von 1,559]

3 minutes ago, greenwaves said:

Like this direct quote from Tom Stewart;

“It was good, obviously any sort of talent we can attract to the club is important for us, so I had the opportunity to meet with him and it is an interesting thing for me in my stage of the career, but it went well, he’s a good man"

Players meet with other clubs all the time. It doesn’t mean everything else is true. It seems in a long career just about every player has met with another club. If a club is that into you you’ll probably go meet with them at some point. 
 

you also have to consider everything Clarry and the club have said against that piece of info.

Edited October 21 by von

[KozzyCan 764]

11 minutes ago, von said:

Players meet with other clubs all the time. It doesn’t mean everything else is true. It seems in a long career just about every player has met with another club. If a club is that into you you’ll probably go meet with them at some point. 
 

you also have to consider everything Clarry and the club have said against that piece of info.

Weird that Oliver never shut it down during the trade period, even liking a post on instagram saying he was keen to go to Geelong next year.

Weird that the club never denied that we had shopped him around.

Seems like those sorts of things would be easily done if it was just a run of the mill meeting that almost all players do in their career.

[KozzyCan 764]

53 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

one wonders what role connors played in all this

there was a nice pot of money in this for him ... maybe follow the money

just sayin

I'm not a lawyer but a player manager trying to manufacture a trade that potentially decreases their clients pay to get a side-deal from the club in question seems like it would be fairly illegal.

[Dee*ceiving 1,662]

Just now, KozzyCan said:

Weird that Oliver never shut it down during the trade period, even liking a post on instagram saying he was keen to go to Geelong next year.

Weird that the club never denied that we had shopped him around.

Seems like those sorts of things would be easily done if it was just a run of the mill meeting that almost all players do in their career.

Agree KC. The whole industry, including fans but most of all the media need to mature in this space. 

Clubs and players exploring options/kicking tyres is completely normal. It does not mean the current arrangement is untenable. 

I maintain if we introduce an ability to trade in contract players where and when the their current club wishes the whole competition will grow up. The league's participants are way to petulant for the size and wealth it presents as a whole.

[KozzyCan 764]

Just now, Dee*ceiving said:

Agree KC. The whole industry, including fans but most of all the media need to mature in this space. 

Clubs and players exploring options/kicking tyres is completely normal. It does not mean the current arrangement is untenable. 

I maintain if we introduce an ability to trade in contract players where and when the their current club wishes the whole competition will grow up. The league's participants are way to petulant for the size and wealth it presents as a whole.

Requires maturity from both the clubs and players, the media will follow suit. When players or clubs get pissy about one another exploring trades then the media are going to feed on the drama.

I like the idea of clubs being able to trade in contract players but don't see the AFLPA ever going for it. Players don't get paid enough for an overseas model like that to work.

[daisycutter 29,596]

53 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Don’t think so.

He is currently getting probably 4% of Clarrry’s salary and that wouldn’t have increased and could have decreased.

i read somewhere it was worth 50k to him but i can't remember where i saw it

he obviously wouldn't want a new reduced contract, but if it was covered between two clubs then it would stay the same

beyond that i don't know ... maybe new endorsements/sponsorships etc? i'm sure other inducements could be dangled (legit ones that is)

Edited October 21 by daisycutter

[MrFreeze 1,944]

39 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Weird that Oliver never shut it down during the trade period, even liking a post on instagram saying he was keen to go to Geelong next year.

Weird that the club never denied that we had shopped him around.

Seems like those sorts of things would be easily done if it was just a run of the mill meeting that almost all players do in their career.

Dan Houston shut down his trade period in the media during finals than a month later admitted that he just straight up lied to diffuse tension.

[Clintosaurus 7,808]

13 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

Dan Houston shut down his trade period in the media during finals than a month later admitted that he just straight up lied to diffuse tension.

And didn't get to the club he actually wanted to go to. Pies must have a better arrangement with Connors.

[layzie 33,724]

We shopped him around but we 'wouldn't budge' in our decision to retain Oliver. Word.

[SthSea22 609]

4 minutes ago, layzie said:

We shopped him around but we 'wouldn't budge' in our decision to retain Oliver. Word.

Geelong would have wanted us to pay at least 1M of the 1.3M

[Redleg 40,776]

56 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

 

beyond that i don't know ... maybe new endorsements/sponsorships etc? i'm sure other inducements could be dangled (legit ones that is)

Doubt it, Bailey is the face of Cotton On.

Edited October 21 by Redleg

[deejammin' 2,363]

1 hour ago, KozzyCan said:

Weird that Oliver never shut it down during the trade period, even liking a post on instagram saying he was keen to go to Geelong next year.

Weird that the club never denied that we had shopped him around.

Seems like those sorts of things would be easily done if it was just a run of the mill meeting that almost all players do in their career.

Oliver also liked the MFC comment that Cambell was coming to the club. Trolling maybe? His mother also called the reporting a load of 💩.

Tim Lamb literally challenged the idea we “shopped him around” and said that it was incorrect day one of trade period, he also challenged the idea Clayton was “desperate to leave” last day of the trade period. The President also made two comments saying he was never being traded as did the head of football. That’s about as strong as a club can go. Pert’s in the middle of two reviews. The board/governance one as a subject and the FD one directly, he shouldn’t being doing media while involved in those processes. 

Whether it was run of the mill or not is irrelevant they could’ve put Clayton in a cats jumper and had him run laps of GMHBA we were NEVER going to trade him this year. The entire media narrative was the GFC and potentially Clayton’s management putting pressure on us to trade and others whiteanting Pert.

[Cranky Franky 2,012]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The situation was bought upon the club by our own actions, whether Pert/board/FD whoever. Oliver was not disgruntled until we started shipping him around behind his back for the 2nd year in a row.

You want to talk about destabilising, look at the governance of the club.

Exactly. There is almost a US style "fake news" obsession with many Demonland supporters blaming all our alleged troubles on the media.

To them the Joel Smith saga 2023 Clarry saga, Brodie Grundy debacle, 2022 & 2023 finals failures, 2024 Fremantle disaster, Trac injury saga, & Clarry 2024 saga were just Media beat ups.

Everything is fine, the coaches are doing great, the Football Dpt is doing well & the Board is terrific.

All good nothing to see.

[Ollie fan 3,349]

2 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Go back and read properly. This was prior to the Pert sourcing our trade talk they were happy with the club support around Oliver especially dating back to last year when he went off the rails and Goodwin gave him some tough love but also wrapped his full support around him.

So of course Clayton and his family were completely blind sided and were pretty disappointed with how it all played out and still are.

Can i just remind you that this all comes back on Gary Perts decision to bypass the likes of Green, Goodwin and Clayton's management which had caused tensions internally.

I'll be incredibly shocked if Pert is with us come round 1 next year. That part is based off my own personal opinion and nothing else.

I read your initial comment and quoted it correctly. Later you changed to say that it was only dad that was disgruntled- no doubt because you had been successfully called out on the misinformation re his mum.

[dazzledavey36 54,091]

10 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

I read your initial comment and quoted it correctly. Later you changed to say that it was only dad that was disgruntled- no doubt because you had been successfully called out on the misinformation re his mum.

Lol nah.. didn't get called out at all bro. If that's what been called out looks like to you then you're completely off the mark 😅

Have another go.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,121]

5 hours ago, DeeZone said:

Whoever indeed - Are you a close personal friend of Clayton’s Dr. gonzo, perhaps a close confidant or just another anti club voice joining in on the bash the club rhetoric????

Yeah, I'm his mum. 🤫

[CHF 2,716]

IF...

....Damian Barrett has any integrity as an AFL journalist....

THEN...

...He would apologise for his biased reporting with regard to what has transpired at the MFC over the last few weeks.

[beelzebub 23,311]

8 hours ago, rpfc said:

Imagine how picks we would get for Petracca and Oliver if that happens?! 😍😍😍

Seriously  funny 🤣🤣🤣

[Demons1858 1,742]

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Go back and read properly. This was prior to the Pert sourcing our trade talk they were happy with the club support around Oliver especially dating back to last year when he went off the rails and Goodwin gave him some tough love but also wrapped his full support around him.

So of course Clayton and his family were completely blind sided and were pretty disappointed with how it all played out and still are.

Can i just remind you that this all comes back on Gary Perts decision to bypass the likes of Green, Goodwin and Clayton's management which had caused tensions internally.

I'll be incredibly shocked if Pert is with us come round 1 next year. That part is based off my own personal opinion and nothing else.

Haven't seen any proof Pert bypassed others without consent? Maybe he was asked to do it so others could maintain their relationship with clayton. Who really knows

Edited October 21 by Demons1858

[binman 42,468]

18 minutes ago, Demons1858 said:

Haven't seen any proof Pert bypassed others without consent? Maybe he was asked to do it so others could maintain their relationship with clayton. Who really knows

Was thinking something very similar.

I wondered if claz needed another rocket, perhaps after some backsliding (eg brownlow night carry on), similar to the threats to trade him last year, but needed a new bad cop.

[The Jackson FIX 3,026]

7 minutes ago, binman said:

Was thinking something very similar.

I wondered if claz needed another rocket, perhaps after some backsliding (eg brownlow night carry on), similar to the threats to trade him last year, but needed a new bad cop.

We’ll run out of bad cops at this rate

[Dr. Gonzo 24,121]

7 hours ago, binman said:

I read an interesting article about  how the so called Heisenberg observer effect impacts the efficacy of polling:

"[E]very attempt to study how people think and act has the potential to influence how they think and act, thus changing what is being recorded, either in self-fulfilling or self-negating ways. The results of any poll on a particular issue are liable to change how people think about that issue, just as any poll showing a candidate’s popularity is liable to influence that candidate’s popularity."

I reckon the same effect is at work with the feedback loop between the gossip churned out by McClure, Morris, Barrett, Cornes (collective noun - mongers) etc etc and supporters.

The media's current narrative about Oliver wanting out (and before that tracc and koz) is the perfect example of what I mean:

As most acknowledge, the mongers goal is to create a story that generates engagement (as measured by clicks, opens, retweets, ratings etc etc) - ideally a story that has a long shelf life so they can wring every last click out of it.

That's the starting point

The mongers know what will drive engagement, ie what the punters want - angst, division, rumour, conflict, gossip, crisis, confirmation of biases etc etc.

And craft the initial story, and subsequent stories, accordingly. 

Football fans consume the stories, most uncritically and accept supposition as fact ('where there's smoke!!!!!').

Football forums, social media, comment sections, group text groups and sports radio is flooded with fans parroting amd amplifying the monger's narrative.

The monger's editors know they're on a winner and tell the mongers to keep producing content about Oliver, particularly given the paucity of real news in the trade period.

And the cycle continues.

After a relatively short period it is accepted fact that Pert shopped Oliver, that claz desperately wanted to get to the cats and, absurdly, there was actually a reasonable chance claz got to the cats (I mean, for all manner of reasons, the chances were vanishingly small of oliver leaving given how late in the year this played out - ditto tracc)

But suprise, suprise, the breathless group think proves to be nonsense- claz is staying.

Yet the mongers know there's still plenty of juice left in the lemon.

In fact, there's at least another 12 months worth of self reinforcing feedback loops and where there's smoke click bait content to be had

A feedback loop where even a story about clarry saying he is keen to get going, looking forward to next year, pumping up tracc, pumping up our chances etc etc is interpreted by some as supporting the monger's narrative ('what else is he going to say?' 'Read between the lines' blah blah blah).

The beauty of the monger's approach is that even in the face of contradictory evidence (eg clarry is staying) their narrative remains unchanged, unchallenged and uncriticised - even by many dees fans.

Like doomsday day cults always extending the date the world is going to end, the narrative now seamlessly shifts to claz leaving at the end of the 2025 season (ditto tracc and koz).

The other genius thing about the monger's method is many people who bought into the claz is gone narrative will, despite it having just been proven wrong, continue to parrot and amplify the monger's messaging. 

A great irony is some of will accuse those who dont buy into the monger's narrative of being naive pollyannas who, unlike them, are not realists or critical thinkers.

The problem with this theory is it discounts the actions of the main players, ie the club and it's players and their public statements.

If there was nothing to the Petracca rumours, they could've been shut down in a split second with one public statement.

If there was nothing to the Oliver rumours they could've been shut down in a split second with a public statement.

The fact neither Petracca or Oliver spoke publicly until it was clear there was going to be no trade done and the story had been allowed to feed on itself for a week or more (especially so in Petracca's case) speaks volumes.

I don't doubt what you're saying about the media and especially these types who feed off the rumours and off field drama. That doesn't necessarily make them wrong though. Another part I think youre discounting in this dialectic is the club supporter who won't hear a bad word about the club and passionately defends them to the hilt. This feeds into the cycle you've mentioned because it invites continued debate/discussion (for want of a better term) particularly on social media. So these mongers as you've coined them throw fresh meat into the water and watch the two opposing groups of supporters go at it.

My position is I don't trust these new age media types and find them all pretty cretinous. I also don't discount everything they say just because they are the ones reporting on it. I consider their story and then look to see how the club/the other actors in whatever the story is react to it. If they let the story fester and refuse to publicly deny allegations, especially when they are as charged as a clubs best player who is signed to a long term deal wanting out of the club, then I conclude that yeah, there probably is something to the story.

I love the club, I don't always love it's administrators. They are human and prone to faults or sometimes just not up to the job. That doesn't make them bad people it just means they are not the right people to lead the club (or maybe they were but have overstayed their welcome). When things stack up over a period of time then you have to ask questions and hope those who are in positions to actually hold them accountable do so. Supporters should demand success and part of that is not accepting management that has presided over poor governance, culture or whatever otherwise the club is doomed to fail.

Edit - also I was never worried about Oliver leaving, I was about Petracca but quickly realised no club would satisfy a trade. These may come to fruition in 12 months they may not, but at the end of the day my concern was more with WHY they wanted out of the club rather than whether they would actually leave.

Edited October 21 by Dr. Gonzo

[Willmoy1947 4,070]

20 hours ago, 58er said:

No but if you care to go back to Page1 of this new Oliver topic you can read a report on the interview. 
Also if you go to the copy of Herald Sun ( Also in the Melbourne other paper The Age) you can read articles of the interview. Also pictures of Clarry at the races. 

Because you don’t make any attempt to follow up information or posts it doesn’t mean that stories are made up. 
Especially if you don’t believe the information as it may not coincide with your opinion.

Correct

[Wizard of Koz 1,085]

The best and most consistent player i have ever seen including robbie (and Adrian Battison).  He can talk like a gimp on magic mushies for all I care. As long as the the manic and  devoted ADHD ielement s back I am cool.

Edited October 21 by Wizard of Koz
typo