Time for a Change….Don’t wait another 2 years…

[Adam The God 30,266]

1 hour ago, Davos said:

We can bounce back to contention next season, but we won't without making some considered changes. 

Sacking Goodwin isn't the answer - 3 top 4 seasons in a row means he's earned the right to attempt a turnaround. 

I'd start by reverting to our method of the past 3 seasons. We built the team to play a heavily contested and defensive style of football, not to move the ball quickly via slick (skilled) ball movement. We aren't Pep Guardiola's Barcelona or Manchester City, but we can be any of Jose Mourinho's title winning teams at their peak. 

You'd hope Clarry can find his mojo again with a full pre-season - he's clearly out of shape at the minute and not playing with any confidence (like most of the team).

Can't see how we continue with the same coaching group. From the outside looking in, it seems the players are tired of the same voices and some fresh ideas are required. Although I'm a fan of Choco, he's a big personality and can be overbearing. As has been discussed, Stafford seems to be a "good bloke" hire - the forward line constantly underperforms, even without elite personel to work with. 

We have to change the way we recruit via FA and trade. Although I understand the thought process behind pursuing AFL proven players for mid draft picks (Hunter, Billings, Fullarton, Schache, Dunstan), I think it's pretty clear now that we'd be better off taking the kids and using the cap space currently spent on bang average depth pieces to throw our hat in the ring for higher quality free agents and trade targets. We should be either getting a sure fire best 22 player, or we go to the draft and back our ability to develop over time. Of the players we've been linked to, I don't mind the noise around Josh Battle but Angwin seems extremely mid. 

Lastly, you would hope this is the worst our forwardline will ever look. Jefferson should offer more than Disco (and this season's version of Petty) next year, and JVR will have another pre-season under his belt. I can see a world where Petty becomes a competent forward again a year removed from his foot injury, or you could swing him back to the backline and get the premiership winning band back together (if he's still around). 

This season is a write off, but I'm not buying the "window closed" noise. Yet. 

Really good post. Agree with all of this, except it is hard to know about Choco and Stafford.

From the outside looking in, our forwardline is our clear weakness.

That said, our midfield has been terrible defending stoppage as of late.

[Macbush 64]

1 hour ago, SFebes said:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/06/11/ive-never-been-more-disappointed-melbourne-great-rips-into-former-club/?
 

That was…cathartic 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

Jvr gives me some hope. He's going to be a very influential and long term player for us.

[Jaded No More 68,958]

Is our forwardline great? No.

Is it the reason we are losing? No.

Who the hell was playing in Collingwood's forwardline yesterday? Absolute nobodies, that's who. Still managed to pile on 14 goals.

 

[beelzebub 23,379]

1 hour ago, SFebes said:

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2024/06/11/ive-never-been-more-disappointed-melbourne-great-rips-into-former-club/?
 

Cheers for link

Schwarta nails it...   lots of home truths in there.

More than a few need rockets ;) ;) 

[DeeSpencer 25,717]

3 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Is our forwardline great? No.

Is it the reason we are losing? No.

Who the hell was playing in Collingwood's forwardline yesterday? Absolute nobodies, that's who. Still managed to pile on 14 goals.

 

Kreuger and Frampton aren’t much although they do have real size and athleticism.

Hill and WHE were a big point of difference in genuine pace and Schulz, McCreery and Harrison are very solid role players.

But you’re right the far bigger gap in performance was their VFL midfield smacking around our so called A graders and just their overall run, spread and skill level.

You could tell in the warm up that they are much faster and sharper than we were. If you measured the speed of the kicks in a simple warm up drill there’s were faster than ours by a good 50%.

[Mel Bourne 4,515]

1 hour ago, BDA said:

Schwarz didn’t hold back. Not sure there’s value in a club great coming out and swinging at the coaches like that. 

There is value, in that it makes supporters feel like they’re not going insane. 

The delusional, cliche-ridden nonsense that Goodwin coughed up at the presser  provided much less “value” than the truth-bombs Schwarz was dropping. 

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

5 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

There is value, in that it makes supporters feel like they’re not going insane. 

The delusional, cliche-ridden nonsense that Goodwin coughed up at the presser  provided much less “value” than the truth-bombs Schwarz was dropping. 

I only watched 2-3 minutes of Goody’s presser last night. 
100% delusional 

[beelzebub 23,379]

1 hour ago, BDA said:

Schwarz didn’t hold back. Not sure there’s value in a club great coming out and swinging at the coaches like that. 

You think.they oughta get a free pass?

Something people may wish to ponder.

You can change the ingredients ...indeed the recipe but if the cooks are the same cooks youll only get the same treatment and effectively same style of offerings.

Need to change the cooks ;) 

Nothing really will change otherwise.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

5 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You think.they oughta get a free pass?

Something people may wish to ponder.

You can change the ingredients ...indeed the recipe but if the cooks are the same cooks youll only get the same treatment and effectively same style of offerings.

Need to change the cooks ;) 

Nothing really will change otherwise.

Unfortunately, I think Goodwin has initiated his own demise by electing to change the method on top of a failed experiment in Gawndy last year. You don’t get too many more chances in this industry and if we predictably don’t make a prelim this year, then i think we will part ways in the off season. 

[titan_uranus 25,020]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Kreuger and Frampton aren’t much although they do have real size and athleticism.

Hill and WHE were a big point of difference in genuine pace and Schulz, McCreery and Harrison are very solid role players.

But you’re right the far bigger gap in performance was their VFL midfield smacking around our so called A graders and just their overall run, spread and skill level.

You could tell in the warm up that they are much faster and sharper than we were. If you measured the speed of the kicks in a simple warm up drill there’s were faster than ours by a good 50%.

This has been our biggest problem all year. 

Our list and game plan revolve around the midfield. Under Goodwin we’ve never been good when beaten in the midfield. In 2021-23 it didn’t happen much. This year it’s happened most weeks and we cannot compete when it happens.

[Adam The God 30,266]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

Is our forwardline great? No.

Is it the reason we are losing? No.

Who the hell was playing in Collingwood's forwardline yesterday? Absolute nobodies, that's who. Still managed to pile on 14 goals.

 

They did kick straight though. Both their ruckmen kicked ridiculously acute shots from the boundary that pretty ordinary players shouldn't kick, but did.

IMV, it's our ability to execute forward of centre that is the single biggest weakness of ours and has been for 3-4 years.

[Bates Mate 4,487]

4 hours ago, 640MD said:

Without expecting anything to change,  I cancelled my automatic renewal for 2025.  Will possibly renew but not  until Feb or march     but  it was a statement to say   I am not happy about the last few weeks.  I will also email the CEO etc.

There did not need to be blood on the field,  but who is your team mate Maynard the junk yard dog, or Gus. 

seriously, that was a mistake yesterday, to smile and laugh 

I'll still sign up next year , but the extra $$ for Grand Final Guarantee I will not, they fooled me into 3 years of that donation

[leave it to deever 17,511]

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

Is our forwardline great? No.

Is it the reason we are losing? No.

Who the hell was playing in Collingwood's forwardline yesterday? Absolute nobodies, that's who. Still managed to pile on 14 goals.

 

Our forward line is a part of why we are losing.

We were thumped yesterday but had three less i50s and as many scoring shots.

Maybe the entries were not great so that's not on our forwards but their errant shots at goal was solely upon them.

And it's been an issue for a few years Jaded.

Also I mentioned before the game that our named fwd line of Anb. Chin , Kozzie, Fritta, Petty had a combined average this year of under 40 points.

We have kicked 100 points twice this year.

I'll give that our delivery to our fwds isn't elite and our mids are lacking in performance this year. But when players like Petty who has kicked three goals in 11 games and mustered about seven possies a game gets a guernsey in our fwd line week in week out, then something's off.

And despite all the skills coaching in the world we have displayed a great deal of mental toughness in kicking so many points yesterday.

But yesterday our midfield was exposed again. Even with Tracca off Sparrow amassed a mind blowing 14 touches ( eight of which he garnered in the first 20 odd mins. He tackles well but other than that is backup material for the middle for me.

And as much as I love Oliver, his disposal yesterday was all over the shop. See ball ...tick. Get ball ..well done. Blindly throw ball on boot...wth?

And JV hasn't picked up where he left off last year.

I hope Tracca isn't out for too long because if he is, we will see a few more beltings.

Despite Tmac playing his best ( has been Tmac of yesteryear back in the backline) even our defence looked shaky. Theee defenders going for the ball. We clearly miss Lever telling people what to do. And Bowey hasn't been the same since he hurt his shoulder.

Seems like eons ago since we came back from SA on top of the world and almost on top of the ladder.

Someone is going to get tapped to fill in the midfield injury of Tracca. Let's hope they embrace it.

 

 

 

Edited June 11 by leave it to deever

[Jaded No More 68,958]

23 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

They did kick straight though. Both their ruckmen kicked ridiculously acute shots from the boundary that pretty ordinary players shouldn't kick, but did.

IMV, it's our ability to execute forward of centre that is the single biggest weakness of ours and has been for 3-4 years.

It's our inability to execute forward of centre IN HIGH PRESSURE GAMES that's our biggest weakness.

Every side has games where they can't kick straight and their opponent can't miss. It happens regularly and it's happened to us many times.

The issue is that when we are under pressure, we seem to totally lose composure forward of centre. Our entries are putrid, and our goal kicking is not much better. We lost an elimination final last year because two of our most experienced players missed absolute sodas. That's mental, and that's a problem.

The issue this year however, is that when things go against us, we completely drop our heads. We've been in many games in the past where things have gone wrong, and we've always been able to arrest momentum and claw our way back. We've rarely ever been out of games, until this year. And that has nothing to do with our forward mix, and everything to do with our midfield getting regularly smacked. 

We didn't lose yesterday because the Pies kicked a couple of miracle goals, or because our forwardline was worse than theirs on paper. We lost yesterday because our pressure rating was abysmal, we got smashed in clearance again, and we were severely punished on turnovers.

JVR, Kosi and Fritta are better forwards than all 6 of the forwards the Pies had on the field yesterday combined. Only Hill is a really quality forward.

 

Edit: I also want to be clear that our forwardline is absolutely a problem, and we desperately need Petty to pull himself together, or to find a quality tall to help JVR. No arguments here. But no forwardline, no matter how good, can play good football if their midfield can't execute a 2m handball.

Edited June 11 by Jaded No More

[poggers 5]

14 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

They did kick straight though. Both their ruckmen kicked ridiculously acute shots from the boundary that pretty ordinary players shouldn't kick, but did.

IMV, it's our ability to execute forward of centre that is the single biggest weakness of ours and has been for 3-4 years.

Its our biggest weakness, has been for years yet little has been done about it. We have players of low skill who are highly contested, no real speed besides picket and Windsor now trying to play a keepings off style of play. We have been [censored] under pressure for years yet now invite it due to our play style. We are the turnover kings and get slaughtered on rebound. We have players all over the ground playing out of their best position. 

i mean maybe I'm wrong. But all i see is a sinking ship with many holes attempting to be plugged. 

[leave it to deever 17,511]

From one of the clubs great forwards, David Schwartz)"....

"What a load of [censored]. Three years this bull [censored] has been happening in trying to find a forward line… the coaches have to take responsibility.

“This isn’t a patch. This is a systematic breakdown of the most important part of your game, which is your forward line. They haven’t been able to address it and it doesn’t matter how many good performances you put in like against St Kilda (in Round 11), it’s just not good enough.

“For a club that has got… a good midfield, a good backline and they haven’t been able to address their forward line, (it's not acceptable)."

Couldn't agree more with the OX.

We tried a few things.

We lured big Brodie Grundy even though the bloke takes two marks a game and thought we could make a goal kicker from him.

We extended Bbbs career despite the writing on the wall when he kicked only one goal in all our 2022 finals campaign. Tmac was injured .Our fwd line cost us that year.

Did the same a year later when we didn't have the players to cover injuries. Tmac managed to do a Bbb and kick one goal in all our finals. This time it was Bbb who w/as injured.

Then we have choices like Schache who I can't even remember the last time he played. I remember thinking a he looked very thin.

Add others like McAdam who credit to Goody he finally dropped . His distance kicking was strange. 

Add also Fullerton.

Then there are the fwds we do play.

Chandler who has averaged this year of not even one goal a game. Who starts each season with a bang and fades into the sunset.

Petty who most of us have been screaming for to be dropped. How many forwards if his goal telly is extrapolated is a grand total of SIX for the entire season ( 22 games) get to keep playing every week.

Jvr who to his credit tries his all and gives a reasonable return but who is still just starting and it's wrong to he carries such a big load.

As the Ox has said, this has been going on for ages 

For me it's up there with Gone with the wind( much like our kicking accuracy at goal) and I find it past frustrating to almost amusing that a problem so glaring has been patched over or if not ignored for so long now.

Want a good gig? Become a fwd at the Mfc.

Money is great.

No kpis.

Free travel.

Job security.

 

Edited June 11 by leave it to deever

[Adam The God 30,266]

21 minutes ago, poggers said:

Its our biggest weakness, has been for years yet little has been done about it. We have players of low skill who are highly contested, no real speed besides picket and Windsor now trying to play a keepings off style of play. We have been [censored] under pressure for years yet now invite it due to our play style. We are the turnover kings and get slaughtered on rebound. We have players all over the ground playing out of their best position. 

i mean maybe I'm wrong. But all i see is a sinking ship with many holes attempting to be plugged. 

It's very strange because Fritta is a beautiful kick, but he's a key offender.

[praha 11,240]

6 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Praha ..in all seriousness hasnt this been what he's supposed to have been doing all along ? 

All a bit....fool me once shame on you, fool me twice ..... 

If there were ever a time to play meat and 3 veg accountable footy.... now might be it.

That said it's a bit like the cast  has been hit with a "bug" and the understudies need to step up.  Just set the tasks at 'possible' and see what some have... 

Cant be much worse.

As to Goody.... tic toc surely ? 

I think that two straight set finals exits is a red flag.. this season I don't think he's coaching well but a lot has happened and it's just snowballed. Hence why I think we're better off judging him at this point next season.

[Jaded No More 68,958]

13 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

It's very strange because Fritta is a beautiful kick, but he's a key offender.

It's even stranger that when we needed him most, grand final day, he literally did not miss a shot. So it's not as if he's never kicked beautifully under pressure! 

The mind boggles.

[Brownie 5,981]

58 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

It's very strange because Fritta is a beautiful kick, but he's a key offender.

There were two kicks where he wheeled from 60m out with two team mates inside the 50 against one pies player. He kicked it to the pies player's advantage both times. There was also the early smother from Howe when we was outside the arc and had loose team mates to choose from

He has no defensive pressure and jogs after opponents when the ball is being slingshot back out of our forward line.

He really seems to be lacking the grit to dig deep for the team.

Schwarta was spot on.

I just watched Goody's presser. He's like the Rudi Giuliani of the AFL. 

A big step forward off a cliff.

Edited June 11 by Brownie

[Brownie 5,981]

3 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Is our forwardline great? No.

Is it the reason we are losing? No.

Who the hell was playing in Collingwood's forwardline yesterday? Absolute nobodies, that's who. Still managed to pile on 14 goals.

 

Nice summation by Titus

Collingwood (89) v Melbourne (51)

Against a Collingwood side with more injuries than that time I decided to do some of my own electrical work, Melbourne made everything look hard. 

There were just so many poor decisions, and not just the players, even the medical team got in on the fun, sending Christian Petracca back out when he was clearly too injured and at risk. To be fair, it turned out he only had four broken ribs, a lacerated spleen and a punctured lung. 

Much has been made of Melbourne changing their game style. I personally don’t see it.

The gameplan for the last three seasons has been to dominate play, but then butcher forward entries with a consistency that must be intentional.

When someone occasionally does take a mark in the forward 50, they seem unsure of what to do next, and so usually kick a behind.

They then let the opposition waltz up the other end and kick a goal.

People keep saying Melbourne have more talent than most other teams, but I’m not sure you can say that based on the evidence.

To my eye, Collingwood have more talented players than Melbourne, you saw it every time they hit a target, while Demons players repeatedly clanked it into an opponent.

I don’t think you can say you’re a talented footballer if you can’t hit a target, or make the wrong decision 80 per cent of the time.

It has been this way since the Premiership, and nothing has changed. All this talk of changing the gameplan over the off season is just nonsense.

Collingwood on the other hand play with a ruthless efficiency.

They run to support each other. Their skills are good, and they have a clear vision of what they want to do. 

Each player knows not only their own role, but their teammates, and the seem to also like each other.

Add in some outstanding players and it’s not hard to see they are Sydney’s greatest threat this season.

As for the Dees, they will talk about ‘working on things’ and ‘wake-up calls’ but all the fans hear is ‘we have no answers.’

Let’s not keep kidding ourselves

[beelzebub 23,379]

2 minutes ago, Brownie said:

Nice summation by Titus

Collingwood (89) v Melbourne (51)

Against a Collingwood side with more injuries than that time I decided to do some of my own electrical work, Melbourne made everything look hard. 

There were just so many poor decisions, and not just the players, even the medical team got in on the fun, sending Christian Petracca back out when he was clearly too injured and at risk. To be fair, it turned out he only had four broken ribs, a lacerated spleen and a punctured lung. 

Much has been made of Melbourne changing their game style. I personally don’t see it.

The gameplan for the last three seasons has been to dominate play, but then butcher forward entries with a consistency that must be intentional.

When someone occasionally does take a mark in the forward 50, they seem unsure of what to do next, and so usually kick a behind.

They then let the opposition waltz up the other end and kick a goal.

People keep saying Melbourne have more talent than most other teams, but I’m not sure you can say that based on the evidence.

To my eye, Collingwood have more talented players than Melbourne, you saw it every time they hit a target, while Demons players repeatedly clanked it into an opponent.

I don’t think you can say you’re a talented footballer if you can’t hit a target, or make the wrong decision 80 per cent of the time.

It has been this way since the Premiership, and nothing has changed. All this talk of changing the gameplan over the off season is just nonsense.

Collingwood on the other hand play with a ruthless efficiency.

They run to support each other. Their skills are good, and they have a clear vision of what they want to do. 

Each player knows not only their own role, but their teammates, and the seem to also like each other.

Add in some outstanding players and it’s not hard to see they are Sydney’s greatest threat this season.

As for the Dees, they will talk about ‘working on things’ and ‘wake-up calls’ but all the fans hear is ‘we have no answers.’

Let’s not keep kidding ourselves

Yes 👏

Thought he summed it up well. 

He's obviously a comedic professional..  but also a diehard Dee... with a pretty good idea of the game.

[beelzebub 23,379]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I only watched 2-3 minutes of Goody’s presser last night. 
100% delusional 

It's what you say..... when there's nothing sensible left to say.....

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

What coach(s) would you want right now? Have the knowledge and experience to right the ship? 

Im suspect of Buckley - he seems to be in the same mould as Goodwin. Is there anyone else? Maybe someone young and fresh?