Matthew Lloyd Worried About the Dees in 2024

[The Jackson FIX 2,290]

This is what Lloyd said on the eve of the 2023 season (three of these sides made finals, two of them made a prelim and both weren’t far off playing each other in a grand final).

Teams that can’t win the flag

North Melbourne, West Coast, GWS, Essendon, Adelaide, Hawthorn, Gold Coast, St Kilda, Carlton.

 

[binman 38,035]

2 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Is this a combination between Robinson Crusoe and the great Italian opera singer Enrico Caruso?

Nah, an old neighbour of mine.

[binman 38,035]

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

There were several of us calling out the warning signs some time ago. The media are now jumping on board, and it's hard not to. There is little about our present situation that bodes well, leaving the usual apologists quick to point out our 3 consecutive top 4 finishes.

They were nice, but are ultimately irrelevant to this year, especially when the bottom has fallen out of the list depth-wise and we had the worst cultural offseason we've had since pre-Roos. 

There are certainly several things to be concerned about, whether you like Lloyd or agree with him or not. 

I respect Binman's analysis, but the length of his posts has direct predictive correlation to our fortunes. The worse things look, the longer his posts get. There were some particularly lengthy ones in Sunday's post match thread, and I have a feeling we're going to be reading some even longer ones before this year is up. 

I have tickets and am flying up, but I think round zero in Sydney could actually be pretty nasty. Could very well set the tone for the year. 

K.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,797]

We would want to get off to a good start to the year, that is all I'm going to say.

# F M D

Edited February 20 by YesitwasaWin4theAges

[binman 38,035]

2 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Is this a combination between Robinson Crusoe and the great Italian opera singer Enrico Caruso?

The weight challenged recluse has sung?

[Doug Reemer 908]

12 hours ago, Clintosaurus said:

The media want us to fail so their favourites can succeed. It's all about building a narrative.

Good. Right us off. It worked for us after 2020!

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 5,797]

4 minutes ago, Doug Reemer said:

Good. Right us off. It worked for us after 2020!

Backs well and truly against the wall.

It will be one of the great triumphs of modern times if we salute in 24.

Edited February 20 by YesitwasaWin4theAges

[Doug Reemer 908]

Just now, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

Back well and truely against the wall.

It will be one of the great triumphs of modern times if we salute in 24.

This playing group needs abit of the “Phucemol” approach. Because we sure as hell Know the tongue up the rectum from the media didn’t help us!

Strap in Demonlanders! It’s going to be a rough and wild ride this year!

Let’s see how many of those extra 30k members stick around when it gets tough!

[Sir Why You Little 34,444]

2 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

it's not like we're claiming a moral victory after the 8th worst test loss of all time

No. But i am sick and tired of the excuses 

We have had a poor conversion Rate forward of Centre, for most of Goodwin’s Coaching Tenure. 
I do not understand why it looks the same Gameplan every week…

There are people on here who disagree with me, fine. But as i have said for many years on here

September pressure goes up 10-20% over the Home & Away and as Tracc said in the Podcast “We Crumbled”

Now good on him for owning it, but we better not see the same conversion rates in ‘24 or Teams will murder us. 
We are in enough ship now because of a certain player 

This is going to be a tough year, i hope we get through it without major hemorrhaging

Edited February 20 by Sir Why You Little

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,238]

20 hours ago, Demonland said:

The ‘big questions’ Matthew Lloyd has about one club ahead of 2024 season

Matthew Lloyd says he’s unsure where Melbourne is at heading into the new season.

The Demons are coming off a second straight sets exit from the finals, having now lost four consecutive matches in September.

With the new campaign less than three weeks away, Lloyd says there’s “big questions” about the club’s recent game style.

“I’m not sure about Melbourne,” he told 3AW Football’s pre-season preview podcast.

“(There’s) big questions about Simon Goodwin, I think he’s played too safe.”

Talk about a headline that makes you go ‘’MEH’ — Such a tool.. Goody has been safe, yes! But that’s not known cus of Lloyd, that’s for sure… I am looking fwd to seeing some of that change this year as I think its likely one of our biggest changes re having more gears to go to and less safe at times! But honestly Lloyd, is perhaps less on money than Cornes!

[fr_ap 2,144]

8 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Here’s an idea… don’t go.

Why subject yourself to what you think will be nasty?

The last thing our team needs now is a bunch of sooks masquerading as fans. 

And you call me rude. 

Here's an idea...mind your own business.

I am just as devoted a fan as you are, despite our different perspectives. I'm looking forward to the trip & game regardless of the result. I wouldn't ever tell you not to do something you're looking forward to. 

Acknowledging the challenges in front of us is not sooking. Discussing those challenges in a thread specifically about them is relevant. Mentioning that some of us saw the same challenges a few months ago is also relevant. Sorry if it's a touchy subject. 

If you don't like what other people have to say, stay off the internet. 

I respect what you bring to the forum, all you do for the the club and your positivity. The club needs all of that. It also needs others who will put it under pressure when required. Some threads, like training updates that you contribute to, are fun and optimistic. Other threads like this are to discuss what isn't, or might not be going quite as well. 

Likewise, I genuinely respect Binman's contributions and devotion. But I don't always agree with it, and think particularly when we lose there are some pretty amazing mental gymnastics on show trying to justify, excuse or explain away what are very simply, poor performances or better opposition teams.

I'm pretty sure I saw the "loading" excuse trotted out in 2nd quarter on Sunday. In a practise match. In February. That same excuse will probably be used in rounds 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17, 19 and 21. I don't agree with it. It's tiresome.

Strong clubs don't look for excuses and don't make apologies - they own it, like Trac did in the recent podcast. We did this under Roos and from all accounts, did this in early 2021 when the players took ownership.

Our club needs more of that, not more excuses or long-winded explanations that blame the faceless fitness gods or the incredible improbability of losing a final with double the number of inside 50s. 

[titan_uranus 22,358]

52 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

And you call me rude. 

Here's an idea...mind your own business.

I am just as devoted a fan as you are, despite our different perspectives. I'm looking forward to the trip & game regardless of the result. I wouldn't ever tell you not to do something you're looking forward to. 

Acknowledging the challenges in front of us is not sooking. Discussing those challenges in a thread specifically about them is relevant. Mentioning that some of us saw the same challenges a few months ago is also relevant. Sorry if it's a touchy subject. 

If you don't like what other people have to say, stay off the internet. 

I respect what you bring to the forum, all you do for the the club and your positivity. The club needs all of that. It also needs others who will put it under pressure when required. Some threads, like training updates that you contribute to, are fun and optimistic. Other threads like this are to discuss what isn't, or might not be going quite as well. 

Likewise, I genuinely respect Binman's contributions and devotion. But I don't always agree with it, and think particularly when we lose there are some pretty amazing mental gymnastics on show trying to justify, excuse or explain away what are very simply, poor performances or better opposition teams.

I'm pretty sure I saw the "loading" excuse trotted out in 2nd quarter on Sunday. In a practise match. In February. That same excuse will probably be used in rounds 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17, 19 and 21. I don't agree with it. It's tiresome.

Strong clubs don't look for excuses and don't make apologies - they own it, like Trac did in the recent podcast. We did this under Roos and from all accounts, did this in early 2021 when the players took ownership.

Our club needs more of that, not more excuses or long-winded explanations that blame the faceless fitness gods or the incredible improbability of losing a final with double the number of inside 50s. 

If you genuinely respect the contributions of people like binman and WCW, can you shelve the use of words like “apologists” and phrases akin to “I told you so”?

The “I told you so” brigade make genuine debate over our 2024 fortunes tiresome - sure, you’ve been more concerned than others over summer. Why do you feel the need to effectively gloat about it?

(PS this is by no means a comment on what WCW said to you).

[Roost it far 6,056]

6 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

If you genuinely respect the contributions of people like binman and WCW, can you shelve the use of words like “apologists” and phrases akin to “I told you so”?

The “I told you so” brigade make genuine debate over our 2024 fortunes tiresome - sure, you’ve been more concerned than others over summer. Why do you feel the need to effectively gloat about it?

(PS this is by no means a comment on what WCW said to you).

Probably because you get flamed for doubting. I actually don’t understand how you can presume it’s just going to happen again considering the preseason we’ve had. It’s been a shocker and it keeps on coming. Let’s see how you feel if we get pantsed by Carlton 

Edited February 20 by Roost it far

[binman 38,035]

37 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

And you call me rude. 

Here's an idea...mind your own business.

I am just as devoted a fan as you are, despite our different perspectives. I'm looking forward to the trip & game regardless of the result. I wouldn't ever tell you not to do something you're looking forward to. 

Acknowledging the challenges in front of us is not sooking. Discussing those challenges in a thread specifically about them is relevant. Mentioning that some of us saw the same challenges a few months ago is also relevant. Sorry if it's a touchy subject. 

If you don't like what other people have to say, stay off the internet. 

I respect what you bring to the forum, all you do for the the club and your positivity. The club needs all of that. It also needs others who will put it under pressure when required. Some threads, like training updates that you contribute to, are fun and optimistic. Other threads like this are to discuss what isn't, or might not be going quite as well. 

Likewise, I genuinely respect Binman's contributions and devotion. But I don't always agree with it, and think particularly when we lose there are some pretty amazing mental gymnastics on show trying to justify, excuse or explain away what are very simply, poor performances or better opposition teams.

I'm pretty sure I saw the "loading" excuse trotted out in 2nd quarter on Sunday. In a practise match. In February. That same excuse will probably be used in rounds 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17, 19 and 21. I don't agree with it. It's tiresome.

Strong clubs don't look for excuses and don't make apologies - they own it, like Trac did in the recent podcast. We did this under Roos and from all accounts, did this in early 2021 when the players took ownership.

Our club needs more of that, not more excuses or long-winded explanations that blame the faceless fitness gods or the incredible improbability of losing a final with double the number of inside 50s. 

Your second, ironically quite long, critique of my posting is noted. 

If I could be so bold as to offer some advice.

Grab a dictionary and read the definitions of excuses and reasons.

Check the calender - it's 2024, not 1988. Football has evolved.

The old, 'I value the contribution of xxxx, but they post drivel i think is stupid' doesn't scream sincerity, and is an approach best left to 14 year high school kids.

If my posts, posting style and opinions, cause you such obvious frustration (as evidenced by going out of your way to criticise me in two posts that had nothing to do with me) perhaps don't read them and/or put me on ignore.

Life's too short for unnecessary angst. 

[Bay Riffin 1,415]

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We were shown up  

September does not lie

Incredibly wasteful in the forward line

we should have won both games but failed. 
I am concerned the Senior Coach has no back up plan, against good opponents. 
 

Senior coach also put us into a position to win. We could not execute our goal kicking. 

[binman 38,035]

14 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Probably because you get flamed for doubting. I actually don’t understand how you can presume it’s just going to happen again considering the preseason we’ve had. It’s been a shocker and it keeps on coming. Let’s see how you feel if we get pantsed by Carlton 

Seriously Roost, show me one example of a single poster saying success 'is just going to happen'.

I'm not being facetious, but unless I've missed it I can't recall anyone saying anything vaguely like that. 

And perhaps I've also missed you being flamed for predicting we will slide. Push back sure, including from me, but flamed?

To be clear no predictions about our fortunes in 2024 have been tested - a hit and giggle practice match notwithstanding.

We don't know who will be closest to the mark yet. Your predictions of us going backwards may well prove to be correct. 

On that front, I note you haven't put your flag in the ground with the poll on where we will finish.

A healthy 20% of respondents think we will miss the 8 amd and 40% think we will finish 5th to 8th.

Which means the 60% agree with your assessment we are likely going backwards this season.

That's to say, even if it doesn't feel like it, your views are shared by the majority of posters (yes, small sample, but I don't expect the percentages will change much).

It also means that those, like me, who think we will remain one of the best four teams in the competition are in the minority.

[Roost it far 6,056]

1 minute ago, binman said:

Seriously Roost, show me one example of a single poster saying success 'is just going to happen'.

I'm not being facetious, but unless I've missed it I can't recall anyone saying anything vaguely like that. 

And perhaps I've also missed you being flamed for predicting we will slide. Push back sure, including from me, but flamed?

To be clear no predictions about our fortunes in 2024 have been tested - a hit and giggle practice match notwithstanding.

We don't know who will be closest to the mark yet. Your predictions of us going backwards may well prove to be correct. 

On that front, I note you haven't put your flag in the ground with the poll on where we will finish.

A healthy 20% of respondents think we will miss the 8 amd and 40% think we will finish 5th to 8th.

Which means the 60% agree with your assessment we are likely going backwards this season.

That's to say, even if it doesn't feel like it, your views are shared by the majority of posters (yes, small sample, but I don't expect the percentages will change much).

It also means that those, like me, who think we will remain one of the best four teams in the competition are in the minority.

My flag is in the ground. Somewhere between 1 and 12. Our list says 1, our preseason says 12. With the preseason and injuries I’m not sure we have enough improvement in us to keep in front so I’ll say 6th. To say I was flamed is very likely an exaggeration but there’s many on here who don’t like reasonable criticism of this club. I think having watched the train wreck that this club has become over preseason it’s more than fair to apply the blowtorch. Here’s a question  for you, If Gawn goes down where do we finish?

[Sydee 3,613]

14 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

My flag is in the ground. Somewhere between 1 and 12. Our list says 1, our preseason says 12. With the preseason and injuries I’m not sure we have enough improvement in us to keep in front so I’ll say 6th. To say I was flamed is very likely an exaggeration but there’s many on here who don’t like reasonable criticism of this club. I think having watched the train wreck that this club has become over preseason it’s more than fair to apply the blowtorch. Here’s a question  for you, If Gawn goes down where do we finish?

Max is clearly one of our most important players and if he was to miss games we lose a significant weapon

However providing Oliver plays most of the season (a big if imo) then personally I feel we lose more if Petty can’t play most games 

Our midfield is capable of winning possession and at least breaking even if Max is out - our forward structure is now heavily dependent on Petty being the second tall to help take the heat off JVR (who simply can’t do it all without help) 

Our other tall forwards I have little or no confidence in 

TMac sadly looks as if his body will not allow him to perform to the level we used to see 

BBB - see above 

Schache - has had plenty of chances and just can’t seem to impose himself at AFL level I know there are some people that think he can miraculously turn that around with a string of games I just don’t see it 

Jefferson - still a very long way off 

Verrall - potential but has trained and played mostly as a ruck so no idea when/if he might add some value 

Fullerton - has shown potential in the VFL with Brisbane as a forward but we know the step up is significant and unfortunately has had an interrupted preseason 

Have I missed someone? I don’t think so 

Petty getting fit and staying fit will largely determine our fortunes this season - given his ability to stay on the park till now it’s a big concern imo 

[binman 38,035]

If i was to guess rooster I would have thought you had us outside the 8.

Sixth would bev slide, albeit not a calamitous one and good too see you think there's a chance we finish top of the ladder.

I could absolutely see us finishing outside the 8, if like in 2019, we have a horror run with injury. The same is true of any side, including the pies.

On maxy, I have been saying for at least 5 years that no one player is as important to a team's chances of success as maxy is to ours.

If obviously depends when he got injured, but let's say he missed half a season I think our top 4 chanced are gone.

Remarkably given his age, the same is true of the pies if nick daicos misses half the season, such is his importance to them (albeit not ad critical as maxy).

However a reasonable counter argument is having maxy out for a block of time might create some positive outcomes - fast tracking verrll for example. I mean, we did pretty well with him not in the side last year.

On the flaming, could I respectly suggest that just like the accusations of posters being triggered by what you see as valid criticisms of the club, there is perhaps an element of discouraging push back?

Case in point, I think your  commemt about 'the train wreck that this club has become over preseason' is hyperbolic and wildly inaccurate. Train wreck? C'mon.

But I have no interest in having a dialogue about it because with that as a starting point it will go nowhere

'What else would you call it when......'

Any dialogue would quickly descend into accusations of reflexively backing the club an refusing to see reality.

Edited February 20 by binman

[WalkingCivilWar 31,465]

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

And you call me rude. 

Here's an idea...mind your own business.

I am just as devoted a fan as you are, despite our different perspectives. I'm looking forward to the trip & game regardless of the result. I wouldn't ever tell you not to do something you're looking forward to. 

Acknowledging the challenges in front of us is not sooking. Discussing those challenges in a thread specifically about them is relevant. Mentioning that some of us saw the same challenges a few months ago is also relevant. Sorry if it's a touchy subject. 

If you don't like what other people have to say, stay off the internet. 

I respect what you bring to the forum, all you do for the the club and your positivity. The club needs all of that. It also needs others who will put it under pressure when required. Some threads, like training updates that you contribute to, are fun and optimistic. Other threads like this are to discuss what isn't, or might not be going quite as well. 

Likewise, I genuinely respect Binman's contributions and devotion. But I don't always agree with it, and think particularly when we lose there are some pretty amazing mental gymnastics on show trying to justify, excuse or explain away what are very simply, poor performances or better opposition teams.

I'm pretty sure I saw the "loading" excuse trotted out in 2nd quarter on Sunday. In a practise match. In February. That same excuse will probably be used in rounds 1, 3, 5, 7, 10, 13, 15, 17, 19 and 21. I don't agree with it. It's tiresome.

Strong clubs don't look for excuses and don't make apologies - they own it, like Trac did in the recent podcast. We did this under Roos and from all accounts, did this in early 2021 when the players took ownership.

Our club needs more of that, not more excuses or long-winded explanations that blame the faceless fitness gods or the incredible improbability of losing a final with double the number of inside 50s. 

TLDR

 

[Sir Why You Little 34,444]

2 hours ago, Bay Riffin said:

Senior coach also put us into a position to win. We could not execute our goal kicking. 

Which has been a problem ohver and over again…

[picket fence 15,152]

14 hours ago, The Jackson FIX said:

This is what Lloyd said on the eve of the 2023 season (three of these sides made finals, two of them made a prelim and both weren’t far off playing each other in a grand final).

Teams that can’t win the flag

North Melbourne, West Coast, GWS, Essendon, Adelaide, Hawthorn, Gold Coast, St Kilda, Carlton.

 

I am no longer scared, but recent events have left me more than a little edgy!😱

[fr_ap 2,144]

3 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

If you genuinely respect the contributions of people like binman and WCW, can you shelve the use of words like “apologists” and phrases akin to “I told you so”?

The “I told you so” brigade make genuine debate over our 2024 fortunes tiresome - sure, you’ve been more concerned than others over summer. Why do you feel the need to effectively gloat about it?

(PS this is by no means a comment on what WCW said to you).

I can see how it would come across as gloating, but it's not. I'm simply making the point again, as every prior time was shot down or disregarded. Not sure why I feel the need to bang my head against the wall, but I'm passionate about the club and our fortunes. 

3 hours ago, binman said:

Your second, ironically quite long, critique of my posting is noted. 

If I could be so bold as to offer some advice.

Grab a dictionary and read the definitions of excuses and reasons.

Check the calender - it's 2024, not 1988. Football has evolved.

The old, 'I value the contribution of xxxx, but they post drivel i think is stupid' doesn't scream sincerity, and is an approach best left to 14 year high school kids.

If my posts, posting style and opinions, cause you such obvious frustration (as evidenced by going out of your way to criticise me in two posts that had nothing to do with me) perhaps don't read them and/or put me on ignore.

Life's too short for unnecessary angst. 

And therein lies the disagreement. At risk of starting a debate I really don't want to have (as it's been done to death over the last 2 years), in the case of loading the 'reason' you use to explain our performances has not been proven. Until it is factual, I consider it an excuse. I'm not alone in this view.

2 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

 

As for not screaming sincerity - interpret my comments however you like. Respecting your contribution means I respect the effort, time, and devotion you have to exploring the topics, which is clear and cannot be doubted. That doesn't mean I will agree with all your findings. The only 14 year old right now is the one incapable of understanding the distinction between respecting someone, and agreeing with everything they say. 

I apologise for drawing you into this as it was unnecessary. The original quip about your post length being a leading indicator of the Dees was in jest. Clearly no one would actually think the length of your posts has anything to do with our performance. It was a joke and one I thought you would have the self awareness to laugh at. I didn't need to follow this up with the further critique once WCW had inflamed things.

I have no beef with you whatsoever, I just disagree with some of your opinions/analysis.

 

2 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

TLDR

 

You started this debate. My comments about our prospects/round zero had nothing to do with you. Says a lot that you'd opt out as soon as you're taken to task. 

[Hopeful Demon 1,254]

While I agree that it's pathetic to suggest that we're doomed and that our season is over, I think it's equally pathetic to say that someone isn't a true supporter when they raise doubts about our form. Both extremes are far too common on this site.

Fwiw, I normally err on the positive side but it's perfectly understandable that people have their concerns given our chaotic off season and our inability to win a final over the past two years.

[WalkingCivilWar 31,465]

2 hours ago, fr_ap said:

You started this debate. My comments about our prospects/round zero had nothing to do with you. Says a lot that you'd opt out as soon as you're taken to task. 

LOL I replied to a post on a PUBLIC forum.

PS: please ensure you’re quoting the right poster. I never mentioned 14yo high school kids. I thought it a bunch, but I never mentioned it 😉

Edited February 21 by WalkingCivilWar