While I sort of agree with Garry Lyon, he could of expressed it more eloquently. I guess football was more important than English class in his younger years at his old town in Kyabram.

He is always known as being a grumpy bugger ol' Garry Lyon though! 🤣

It also needs to be remembered that the Melbourne players were quite traumatised seeing poor Angus Brayshaw getting knocked out for 2 minutes by that vile piece of slime Brayden "the Thug" Maynard.

Nevertheless, I am sure the Demons will "suck it up" and hopefully use the disappointing exit from finals as motivation for next year.

Here is the link with Garry Lyon's comments: https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/suck-it-up-claims-stars-ko-derailed-dees-run-after-finals-choke/news-story/4479e3db7817a98992ad748f28457bc7

I should note that everyone in the football media loves to kick the Melbourne Demons while we are down and out. But you gotta expect that when there are high expectations and you don't meet them. Oh well....better to be criticised for poor finals performances than being Wooden Spooners! 🤷🏼‍♂️

Edited September 18, 20231 yr by Supreme_Demon

Absolutely agree with everything in that article. The truth hurts and I hope it burns in the off season and pre season and channel all of that in a positive way…….change has to happen otherwise we are just making up the numbers. We are staying the same and others are catching and going past us.

2 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

While I sort of agree with Garry Lyon, he could of expressed it more eloquently. I guess football was more important than English class in his younger years at his old town in Kyabram.

He is always known as being a grumpy bugger ol' Garry Lyon though! 🤣

It also needs to be remembered that the Melbourne players were quite traumatised seeing poor Angus Brayshaw getting knocked out for 2 minutes by that vile piece of slime Brayden "the Thug" Maynard.

Nevertheless, I am sure the Demons will "suck it up" and hopefully use the disappointing exit from finals as motivation for next year.

Here is the link with Garry Lyon's comments: https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/suck-it-up-claims-stars-ko-derailed-dees-run-after-finals-choke/news-story/4479e3db7817a98992ad748f28457bc7

I should note that everyone in the football media loves to kick the Melbourne Demons while we are down and out. But you gotta expect that when there are high expectations and you don't meet them. Oh well....better to be criticised for poor finals performances than being Wooden Spooners! 🤷🏼‍♂️

Quote"

In an alarming reveal, statistics show the Demons have three of the worst rated kicks in the AFL – with captain Max Gawn officially ranked the worst of the competition.

Jack Viney was named third worst while Clayton Oliver was seventh in the stat for players that have more than 200 kicks to their name this season.

“They’ve got three of the seven worst kicks in the comp!” Jonathan Brown said.

“Your best players are your worst kicks in the team!

“To have three of the top worst seven … explains a bit,” Buckley added.

2 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

While I sort of agree with Garry Lyon, he could of expressed it more eloquently. I guess football was more important than English class in his younger years at his old town in Kyabram.

He is always known as being a grumpy bugger ol' Garry Lyon though! 🤣

It also needs to be remembered that the Melbourne players were quite traumatised seeing poor Angus Brayshaw getting knocked out for 2 minutes by that vile piece of slime Brayden "the Thug" Maynard.

Nevertheless, I am sure the Demons will "suck it up" and hopefully use the disappointing exit from finals as motivation for next year.

Here is the link with Garry Lyon's comments: https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/suck-it-up-claims-stars-ko-derailed-dees-run-after-finals-choke/news-story/4479e3db7817a98992ad748f28457bc7

I should note that everyone in the football media loves to kick the Melbourne Demons while we are down and out. But you gotta expect that when there are high expectations and you don't meet them. Oh well....better to be criticised for poor finals performances than being Wooden Spooners! 🤷🏼‍♂️

This is nothing compared to what Port is copping atm.

Circumstances aside we choked/lacked composurein key moments during this finals and together with selection and strategy issues, they need to be addressed.

16 minutes ago, Kent said:

Quote"

In an alarming reveal, statistics show the Demons have three of the worst rated kicks in the AFL – with captain Max Gawn officially ranked the worst of the competition.

Jack Viney was named third worst while Clayton Oliver was seventh in the stat for players that have more than 200 kicks to their name this season.

“They’ve got three of the seven worst kicks in the comp!” Jonathan Brown said.

“Your best players are your worst kicks in the team!

“To have three of the top worst seven … explains a bit,” Buckley added.

I'd like to see those statistics. Does anyone have a link?

The funny thing is i reckon Petracca is often the worst kick of the lot of them. His best is the best but his worst is horrible.

37 minutes ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

Absolutely agree with everything in that article. The truth hurts and I hope it burns in the off season and pre season and channel all of that in a positive way…….change has to happen otherwise we are just making up the numbers. We are staying the same and others are catching and going past us.

Truth Hurts, but what will change in 2024? Goodwin is so damn stubborn in his beliefs!

I agree with Lyon. We coughed up both those games. Yeah we were dealing with some adversity but there is always some to deal with. Better to avoid the the excuses and focus on fwd connection and goal kicking conversion. 

Related to this a nasty narrative is developing:

“On Monday journalist Jon Ralph revealed “senior figures” at the Demons believe the Brayshaw fallout contributed to the team’s semi-final loss....A strong belief from senior figures still a week on is that the Angus Brayshaw furore derailed their finals pitch,” he said On the Couch.  “That the players were shell shocked to witness Brayshaw concussed and laid out cold."

Now every media outlet will run with it.  Ralph's claim is being talked up as MFC making 'excuses' which is not something we do.

From what I saw the KO affected the QF but not the SF.  I have no time at all for Ralph and this is a bizarre claim without providing any substance.  Just assumption, embellishment and guess work.  Click bait at its worst. 

I'm annoyed that Lyon didn't call him out on it. 

Edited September 18, 20231 yr by Lucifers Hero

18 minutes ago, Wrecker46 said:

I'd like to see those statistics. Does anyone have a link?

The funny thing is i reckon Petracca is often the worst kick of the lot of them. His best is the best but his worst is horrible.

So 3 of the top 10 and agree Petracca wouldn't be far off, plus Langdon.  This is something we have been posting here for years.

7 minutes ago, Kent said:

Quote"

In an alarming reveal, statistics show the Demons have three of the worst rated kicks in the AFL – with captain Max Gawn officially ranked the worst of the competition.

Jack Viney was named third worst while Clayton Oliver was seventh in the stat for players that have more than 200 kicks to their name this season.

“They’ve got three of the seven worst kicks in the comp!” Jonathan Brown said.

“Your best players are your worst kicks in the team!

“To have three of the top worst seven … explains a bit,” Buckley added.

This really is the elephant in the room. No one here will be shocked by this, yet it's our forwards that continually get bagged despite them, as a group, having an injury run from hell. 

We love those 3 to death, but their 'just kick it' style gets lots of i50's for little gain. Also, as set shots themselves they are poor. To the eye, there seems to be missing that creative handball (like Clarry used to do) that gives the kicker that extra second or 2 to find and hit a target. 

We have the right core. We just need to change the style and mindset.  This is likely a combination of personnel (elite midfield ball users), line coaches and game plan. 

A KPF would be nice, but is not the Holy Grail. Carlton were missing McKay and May slaughtered Curnow, so that didn't beat us. 

There's an old saying.  It's not the size that counts, but how it's used. Even my wife, who knows nothing about football, keeps telling me this. 🤔 

I said it before the game that it would either bind us together or weigh heavily and either way I'd understand.

I don't think Lyon is off the mark, maybe the timing wasn't great as it was still raw but when is the timing ever right?

And this is why I just avoid football media. 

The wrist slashing and insane hyperbole doesn't help.

Everything these so called experts are saying, our club is internally very well aware of. 

The pile on does nothing but create a narrative that we are a soft club. Honestly the out and out hatred of our club in the media is so obvious. They all could not wait to see us fail so they can stick the boot in, including ex Melbourne captain Lyon.

What he is saying might be partially true, but as always these commentators pick the flaws and offer absolutely no solutions. I trust the club is going to work hard to rectify the problems. 

Three extra points and the whole media narrative changes. They are useless.

Does anyone have the full list in the 'worst kick' rating?

Somewhere I read Petracca came in at #60.  Before condemning him shouldn't we know how many players they rated.  If it is 100 he looks OK, if it is 500 he looks pretty bad.  And at 60 we can't put him in the same category as Oliver and Viney.

 

And where is some analysis ie

• Criteria for defining and ranking 'poor kicks'. 
• What about the ratio of those to total kicks.
• Where do the mids from other teams sit on their ranking.   In the past players like Dangerfield and Dusty have been well down these sort of rankings. 
• Comparisons would make more sense if there were categories eg for ruckman, mids, forwards etc.
• Total kicks

Common sense (yes I know it isn't very common) says the more kicks you have the more will be 'poor'.

 

Sigh, It seems it is 'open shooting' season on our beloved dees.  I really don't like it - its like kicking someone while they are down. 

Edited September 18, 20231 yr by Lucifers Hero

1 hour ago, Kent said:

Quote"

In an alarming reveal, statistics show the Demons have three of the worst rated kicks in the AFL – with captain Max Gawn officially ranked the worst of the competition.

Jack Viney was named third worst while Clayton Oliver was seventh in the stat for players that have more than 200 kicks to their name this season.

“They’ve got three of the seven worst kicks in the comp!” Jonathan Brown said.

“Your best players are your worst kicks in the team!

“To have three of the top worst seven … explains a bit,” Buckley added.

 

 

Demonland - "Yeh nah but it's irrelevant because they're starrsssssssss"

6 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

And this is why I just avoid football media. 

The wrist slashing and insane hyperbole doesn't help.

Everything these so called experts are saying, our club is internally very well aware of. 

The pile on does nothing but create a narrative that we are a soft club. Honestly the out and out hatred of our club in the media is so obvious. They all could not wait to see us fail so they can stick the boot in, including ex Melbourne captain Lyon.

What he is saying might be partially true, but as always these commentators pick the flaws and offer absolutely no solutions. I trust the club is going to work hard to rectify the problems. 

I didn't watch the show so I didn't hear the tones or manner in which he said it, I'm really just going off what people are saying and I do think that sometimes bad things happen in finals and you have to keep your focus on the job.

I do think however that it was a grueling week and could understand if it took a lot out of them. We don't know exactly what the leaders said and Ralphy has obviously put his mayonnaise on it.  

it’s good. I hope they all get baked and that it burns during pre season. It should galvanise the team.

I do have empathy for the players  but the majority of the blame sits solidly in the footy department IMO. They have had years to fix the connection issue.

 

5 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Sigh, It seems it is 'open shooting' season on our beloved dees.  I really don't like it - its like kicking someone while they are down. 

Lamentably....yes..   All the locusts swarm. Tbh... not without some merit.

We are our own worst enemy. We often dont simply get beaten.. WE lose. Emphasis on the WE.  I.e.. It was up to us...and we've stuffed up...and not just once.  There's a perceivable trend.

So the answer to all that kicking...is to get up and do something about it. I can only suggest something somewhat different....lest we end up right back on the floor..

The word criticism by definition comes from critique. We of course deserve to be critiqued.  Now it may well be some have agendas and/or narratives to push but the equally simple ( as such ) solution so as to avoid the kicking. Dont lose the games you've won. 

It might just help.....

Garry loves the dees but he’s also always the first one to put the boot in. Contrast that with  Cornes or Buckley or Damo . He speaks from his grumpy self but it would be good if he could be a little protective as well in the times when it’s needed. As in now. 

12 minutes ago, DeeMee said:

Three extra points and the whole media narrative changes. They are useless.

Yes and no. The focus wouldn't be as big however forward entries and poor kicking at goal have been a consistent issue since about round 6. It does seem like our efficiency dropped last year and it seemed like it improved at the start of the year but it's dropped right back down. Just feels like our midfield was off this year. Ed Langdon was of the most critical ones in our premiership year and his kicking issues seemed to have disappeared. Not sure where that has gone to. 

He’s right, this loss was inexcusable from a team in its prime and with so called big game players. The coaching staff can be blamed but they’re also not the ones on field missing straight forward shots and this happened in both the finals games. 

51 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Related to this a nasty narrative is developing:

“On Monday journalist Jon Ralph revealed “senior figures” at the Demons believe the Brayshaw fallout contributed to the team’s semi-final loss....A strong belief from senior figures still a week on is that the Angus Brayshaw furore derailed their finals pitch,” he said On the Couch.  “That the players were shell shocked to witness Brayshaw concussed and laid out cold."

Now every media outlet will run with it.  Ralph's claim is being talked up as MFC making 'excuses' which is not something we do.

From what I saw the KO affected the QF but not the SF.  I have no time at all for Ralph and this is a bizarre claim without providing any substance.  Just assumption, embellishment and guess work.  Click bait at its worst. 

I'm annoyed that Lyon didn't call him out on it. 

It could be as simple as a Board member saying he thought the Gus incident greatly affected the Pies game. Then the click bait starts.

Of course it affected the game. We lost a versatile 30 possession player, 3 minutes into the game, which stopped Petracca going forward and the replacement had 6 possessions and no impact at all. We lost by 7 points. Of course it affected the game.

20 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Does anyone have the full list in the 'worst kick' rating?

Somewhere I read Petracca came in at #60.  Before condemning him shouldn't we know how many players they rated.  If it is 100 he looks OK, if it is 500 he looks pretty bad.  And at 60 we can't out him in the same category as Oliver and Viney.

 

And where is some analysis ie

• Criteria for defining and ranking 'poor kicks'. 
• What about the ratio of those to total kicks.
• Where do the mids from other teams sit on their ranking.   In the past players like Dangerfield and Dusty have been well down these sort of rankings. 
• Comparisons would make more sense if there were categories eg for ruckman, mids, forwards etc.
• Total kicks

Common sense (yes I know it isn't very common) says the more kicks you have the more will be 'poor'.

 

Sigh, It seems it is 'open shooting' season on our beloved dees.  I really don't like it - its like kicking someone while they are down. 

In the stats thread Oliver & Viney are rated 1 & 2 for Pressure Points based on TOG. I'm guessing this has something to do with it.

5 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Lamentably....yes..   All the locusts swarm. Tbh... not without some merit.

We are our own worst enemy. We often dont simply get beaten.. WE lose. Emphasis on the WE.  I.e.. It was up to us...and we've stuffed up...and not just once.  There's a perceivable trend.

So the answer to all that kicking...is to get up and do something about it. I can only suggest something somewhat different....lest we end up right back on the floor..

The word criticism by definition comes from critique. We of course deserve to be critiqued.  Now it may well be some have agendas and/or narratives to push but the equally simple ( as such ) solution so as to avoid the kicking. Dont lose the games you've won. 

It might just help.....

bb You are right we have put ourselves in that situation.  

I don't mind fair criticism based on even a modicum of analysis or constructive dialogue. 

It is the cheap shots, sometimes wrong, that the sheep following media jump on give those narratives a life of their own that I don't like. 

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

It could be as simple as a Board member saying he thought the Gus incident greatly affected the Pies game. Then the click bait starts.

Of course it affected the game. We lost a versatile 30 possession player, 3 minutes into the game, which stopped Petracca going forward and the replacement had 6 possessions and no impact at all. We lost by 7 points. Of course it affected the game.

Yes, I mentioned it would have affected the QF.

Ralph's so called 'senior club official' belief was in relation to the SF vs Carlton.

Edited September 18, 20231 yr by Lucifers Hero