PREGAME: Rd 23 vs Hawthorn

[Kent 2,920]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:41 PM, Roost it far said:

Personally 4th spot is our best option

its our only option due to losing this week

[Deemania since 56 6,810]

On 8/12/2023 at 10:23 PM, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Out: Jordan

In: Harmes

In Harmes as a tagger and mongrel.

[Roger Mellie 4,205]

24 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

In Harmes as a tagger and mongrel.

When Harmes was on top of his game a few years ago, I remember an interview at the time where he attributed his great form all to confidence. Clearly he has none now, which is very sad, but he can't come back in the side until he gets it back. Way too many turnovers at VFL level. He's racking up possessions in the VFL, but they're mostly rubbish. Even when he played his last game for us 2 weeks ago, I can't recall him hitting a target in the first half (with minor improvement in the second half). It's too late in the season to attempt to play him back into form and we just can't afford his turnovers and fumbles. At his best, he's a walk-up start and who wouldn't want to see that?

My team for this week would be Smith forward, Spargo in for Jordon, Hibbo in or sub. Grundy stays to give Gawn (and JVR) one last serious chop-out for the year before finals and ideally slot a goal or two. Alternatively, Tomlinson for Grundy depending on whether Hawks go for 3 tall forwards or a second ruck.

[binman 44,843]

12 hours ago, layzie said:

There's nothing I can say about selection on a Sunday that will be of any help. 

Especially from that VFL game.

Spargo will come in.

[layzie 34,528]

52 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

When Harmes was on top of his game a few years ago, I remember an interview at the time where he attributed his great form all to confidence. Clearly he has none now, which is very sad, but he can't come back in the side until he gets it back. Way too many turnovers at VFL level. He's racking up possessions in the VFL, but they're mostly rubbish. Even when he played his last game for us 2 weeks ago, I can't recall him hitting a target in the first half (with minor improvement in the second half). It's too late in the season to attempt to play him back into form and we just can't afford his turnovers and fumbles. At his best, he's a walk-up start and who wouldn't want to see that?

My team for this week would be Smith forward, Spargo in for Jordon, Hibbo in or sub. Grundy stays to give Gawn (and JVR) one last serious chop-out for the year before finals and ideally slot a goal or two. Alternatively, Tomlinson for Grundy depending on whether Hawks go for 3 tall forwards or a second ruck.

I believe this to be correct. Harmes is a confidence player who has done so well to get as much out of himself as he has. Looks to be in a different headspace now and it's the hardest thing to get back. 

[Jaded No More 68,976]

Just now, binman said:

Spargo will come in.

Agreed. Will replace JJ 

Any thoughts on Grundy?

I would drop him and play Smith forward. Hibbo into the 22. 

[layzie 34,528]

1 minute ago, binman said:

Spargo will come in.

Probably a good game for him to come back for. 

Could use some decent field kicking. 

[Young Angus 875]

Does Hunter have a right foot or is is fake?

I want to see Dunstan on the field, I know VFL isn't a good barometer for AFL but he's consistently killing it isn't he?

Love Grundy, but it didn't really work.  I seriously wouldn't care if we brought in Schache or Jefferson at this stage just get someone tall in there who is a forward and can make some kind of target of themselves.  Shame Tmac didn't go too well in VFL.  

Really not sure about Hunter and keeping him in, interesting he's been able to hold on to his spot all year, JJ also not sure.  Bring back Taj !!

[Demon Dynasty 17,166]

17 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

following the vfl game, i would think...

OUT: jordon, grundy
IN: spargo, tomlinson

smith forward and hibb remains the sub

That's about as good as it gets for now with Petty gone and Macca still on the come back trail

Thought Schache might stick his hand up yesterday but he was terrible.

[Demon Dynasty 17,166]

47 minutes ago, Young Angus said:

Does Hunter have a right foot or is is fake?

I want to see Dunstan on the field, I know VFL isn't a good barometer for AFL but he's consistently killing it isn't he?

Love Grundy, but it didn't really work.  I seriously wouldn't care if we brought in Schache or Jefferson at this stage just get someone tall in there who is a forward and can make some kind of target of themselves.  Shame Tmac didn't go too well in VFL.  

Really not sure about Hunter and keeping him in, interesting he's been able to hold on to his spot all year, JJ also not sure.  Bring back Taj !!

Woe was VG yesterday until his head knock and a slight corky about half way through the third.  Got to plenty of contests and became an excellent link out of congestion with some reasonably clean disposal.

Play him off the bench as a part time winger (when resting Hunter) and outside mid for shortish minutes sharing this role with Kozzy.

We are struggling with our ability to get the loose ball and spread and / or cover the spread once the ball spills to the outside at CBs & stoppages.

Playing JJ, Gus, Clarry & Viney in the same team is not the answer.  Too much inside ploddy stuff here.

Kozzy can't do it all as we need his pressure inside 50 and goal kicking of course but imo we also need to see more of him at CBs.  More than 10% anyway.  Should be pushing this to 15% - 20% and get Chandler to play the Kozzy pressure role while he's out of the 50.

It's either that or we somehow need to push Rivers into some CBs and a few stoppages in the middle and wings.  Cover his role with someone....maybe McVee?

Need to add some speed at bounces & stoppages.  We're getting smoked on the outside too often now.

Get Woe in and start blooding him if fully fit.  He's ready he just needs the tank which he's better off building at AFL level.  He'll have quiet moments and quarters but the quality is there and he'll get more involved as the experience & tank grows.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[whatwhat say what 23,863]

32 minutes ago, Young Angus said:

Does Hunter have a right foot or is is fake?

I want to see Dunstan on the field, I know VFL isn't a good barometer for AFL but he's consistently killing it isn't he?

Love Grundy, but it didn't really work.  I seriously wouldn't care if we brought in Schache or Jefferson at this stage just get someone tall in there who is a forward and can make some kind of target of themselves.  Shame Tmac didn't go too well in VFL.  

Really not sure about Hunter and keeping him in, interesting he's been able to hold on to his spot all year, JJ also not sure.  Bring back Taj !!

hunter has been very good all year

he's not getting dropped

[Red and Blue realist 2,063]

I know Gawn's scan was just routine and he'd be right to play, but I think I'd give him a rest this week. He looked a little sore on Saturday night so giving him a week off will do 2 things, help him be super fresh for the finals (with the pre-finals bye after Sydney) and give Grundy the chance to find form. I think if we are still going to look at the Gawn/Grundy combo we need Grundy to be back to full confidence and when he rucked 1 out from rounds 2 to 5 he was really good, in turn between rounds 6 to 8 Grundy and Gawn combined for 7 goals.  

I also think we need an extra tall defender again, we could go without against Cartlon because they had Curnow and smalls (plus the rest ruck occasionally), whereas the Hawks and most others have 2-3 talls. So Tomolinson to come back in (and stay in). 

So my changes would be Gawn and Jordon out, Tomlinson and Schache in. With Woewodin to be the sub - Hibberd needs a full game, but hasn't done anything to warrant this being at AFL level. Schache being the best of the talls at Casey for a few weeks, although he wasn't great Sunday, he deserves a shot before TMac. Melk lucky that Fritta is still not right.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

Can someone who has played or coached  footy at a decent level answer this question for me.

 

If McGuiness goes to say, Viney at the start of the game, and then we decide to send Viney to Newcombe to play a similar lockdown role on him, what happens?

 

Doesn't it create a 2 v 1 and an open Melbourne player? What actually happens in these instances and surely it's something we should look at doing?

[Gillies 26]

2 hours ago, Jerry Lundergard said:

Can someone who has played or coached  footy at a decent level answer this question for me.

 

If McGuiness goes to say, Viney at the start of the game, and then we decide to send Viney to Newcombe to play a similar lockdown role on him, what happens?

 

Doesn't it create a 2 v 1 and an open Melbourne player? What actually happens in these instances and surely it's something we should look at doing?

They then use McGuiness to block viney around the stoppages to free up Newcombe. 

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

9 minutes ago, Gillies said:

They then use McGuiness to block viney around the stoppages to free up Newcombe. 

So they'd be fine having one of our other players(Clarry, Gus, Trac), standing on his own?

Doesn't make sense to me.

[deelusions from afar 1,894]

I think I'd keep Grundy in this week and bring Smith forward.  Probably have Tomlinson in the side and Hibberd as the sub - Hibberd deserves a full game but I think it's good to have an option to replace Tomlinson if we need more run from defence at the end of the match.

[inanunda 364]

If we win this week, rest Gawn against Sydney. No need to play him if we have top four sewn up. 

[Fat Tony 5,337]

Fat Tony's Side for Hawthorn

FB: Tomlinson May Hibberd

HB: Salem Lever Rivers

C: Langdon OIiver Hunter

HF: Neal-Bullen Van Rooyen Pickett

FF: Chandler Melksham Petracca

Fol: Gawn Sparrow Viney

Int: McVee (B) Smith (F) Brayshaw (M) Jordon/Wowoedin (M)

Sub: Bowey

I think the key is getting the balance of the side right, not getting the best 22 players on the park. That means one ruckman, three tall defenders and only two midget small forwards.

Grundy isn't giving us enough as a marking option and isn't quick enough to apply pressure as a forward.  Van Rooyen has proven himself to be a decent second ruckman.

Bowey loses his spot to Hibberd in the starting back seven but gets maintained as the sub. This is just on form and I would like to see him given a quarter as a forward or wing if required when he comes on. We might find he has more flexibility than we think.

I think we are too small with Chandler, Pickett and Spargo in the same side. While Spargo has decent VFL form, I just don't think the balance is right with three midgets.

I want Smith to be given a job up forward to replace Petty. He is not as good in the air but is more mobile. I think he is our best bet to win the flag now.

Is Jordon injured? He certainly didn't play well on Saturday but I think he is still the best option at this stage because he can play in a variety or roles. Wowoedin is the one to replace him if he is out injured.

Tomlinson is the beneficiary of Petty getting injured. Lever is able to intercept better against the third tall.

 

[beelzebub 23,392]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:51 AM, Demons11 said:

Melksham took Weitering out of the game 

That's right...in a game where there wasn't much service to the forwards......it was his defensive game that prevailed.

[Deevout 534]

3 hours ago, Red and Blue realist said:

 

So my changes would be Gawn and Jordon out, 

I don’t expect Max will miss this week unless he has a serious injury that rules him out.

His 200th game on Sunday for our Champion Captain 🔴🔵

[In Harmes Way 7,870]

4 minutes ago, Deevout said:

I don’t expect Max will miss this week unless he has a serious injury that rules him out.

His 200th game on Sunday for our Champion Captain 🔴🔵

The club would absolutely want Gawny's 200th at the G in front of supporters, friends and family; as opposed to the SCG.

[Sydee 4,684]

Absolute must win game for us this week. 

If we lose it could become a must win game at the SCG against the Swans to retain our top 4 position. Personally, I wouldn't like our chances particularly when the Swans may very well be playing for a finals place in Round 24. Backs to the wall in Sydney they will be very hard to beat.

It highlights again how damaging the loss on the weekend was - things could get ugly quickly if we can't beat the Hawks who based on exposed form will be a tough opposition if we are not 100% switched on.

 

[SPC 3,596]

59 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Fat Tony's Side for Hawthorn

FB: Tomlinson May Hibberd

HB: Salem Lever Rivers

C: Langdon OIiver Hunter

HF: Neal-Bullen Van Rooyen Pickett

FF: Chandler Melksham Petracca

Fol: Gawn Sparrow Viney

Int: McVee (B) Smith (F) Brayshaw (M) Jordon/Wowoedin (M)

Sub: Bowey

I think the key is getting the balance of the side right, not getting the best 22 players on the park. That means one ruckman, three tall defenders and only two midget small forwards.

Grundy isn't giving us enough as a marking option and isn't quick enough to apply pressure as a forward.  Van Rooyen has proven himself to be a decent second ruckman.

Bowey loses his spot to Hibberd in the starting back seven but gets maintained as the sub. This is just on form and I would like to see him given a quarter as a forward or wing if required when he comes on. We might find he has more flexibility than we think.

I think we are too small with Chandler, Pickett and Spargo in the same side. While Spargo has decent VFL form, I just don't think the balance is right with three midgets.

I want Smith to be given a job up forward to replace Petty. He is not as good in the air but is more mobile. I think he is our best bet to win the flag now.

Is Jordon injured? He certainly didn't play well on Saturday but I think he is still the best option at this stage because he can play in a variety or roles. Wowoedin is the one to replace him if he is out injured.

Tomlinson is the beneficiary of Petty getting injured. Lever is able to intercept better against the third tall.

 

Not bad on paper, the challenge is we have no tall forward when JVR replaces Max in Ruck

[Wells 11 5,503]

I remember about 6 weeks ago looking at Carlton, Hawks and Sydney as three pretty easy games to finish out the year. Sheesh....almost by the week this assignment has gotten harder. We lost petty to injury last week, then we lost a critical game to an umpire blunder in the last 40 secs  this week. For a successful season ( which we are most definitely having) there's starting to be quite a bit of heartache in it. 

[Red and Blue realist 2,063]

36 minutes ago, Deevout said:

I don’t expect Max will miss this week unless he has a serious injury that rules him out.

His 200th game on Sunday for our Champion Captain 🔴🔵

 

32 minutes ago, In Harmes Way said:

The club would absolutely want Gawny's 200th at the G in front of supporters, friends and family; as opposed to the SCG.

Yeah, completely understand that. But I think for our premiership aspirations we'd be better off to let Gawn be 100% for finals, and also hope Grundy can re-discover his confidence and best form which might mean Gawn has to play his 200th in Sydney. In my opinion (and I know I'll be in the minority - but I've been calling for a Gawn rest for a while) we have to make sure we don't make similar mistakes to last year and run into finals with players who aren't as close to 100% as they can be at this time of the year. It's a head over heart decision.