On 19/09/2023 at 12:29, bing181 said:

Sure - but Petty plus another year into JVR, they could really do some damage. I feel that our priorities are elsewhere than a KPF, e.g. longer term backup for May + Gawn, plus some on-ballers with decent/elite disposal.

Agree. Everyone on here seems not to rate Joel Smith and I understand that given his history. But he has come on in leaps and bounds this season and became an integral part of our forward system. That's 3 very good contested forwards that can all take a mark. Add Fritsch and McAdam as medium talls as well as our smalls which might include Watson, then the forward line doesn't look that bad. Melksham might even get another contract.

It's our forward entries that I believe is the problem. We don't need a Lynch or a McKay. We have the cattle.

  On 19/09/2023 at 19:17, beelzebub said:

Thats just it $1M..   not massively over all in all...  imo..    for what you should expect.

You would want 50g a season ? 

A forward half with Petty, JVR, Fritsch and him would be dangerous 

Are we, as a club, brave enough to go chase someone or are we sticking to the draft?

  On 19/09/2023 at 22:07, Roost it far said:

Are we, as a club, brave enough to go chase someone or are we sticking to the draft?

No point chasing someone who we overpay, both in trade and contract, just to get a name, who actually might not improve us.

I would rather draft talent and cherry-pick a smokey, than go through a Grundy scenario again.

  On 18/09/2023 at 09:29, John Demonic said:

@picket fence must be doing some maintenance today, wouldve thought the Spargo rumour would be having him celebrating 

One of our few four quarter payers last week, and yes Fr. Damien Karras has performed an Exorcism on me, Linda Blair was there and held my hand😱

  On 19/09/2023 at 03:44, MoeSyzlak said:

I wish we went hard at Larkey. 

love this idea!

 

  On 19/09/2023 at 22:17, Redleg said:

No point chasing someone who we overpay, both in trade and contract, just to get a name, who actually might not improve us.

I would rather draft talent and cherry-pick a smokey, than go through a Grundy scenario again.

I think he would improve us, may even allow Petty to play back

  On 19/09/2023 at 22:23, BScotti said:

love this idea!

 

But late now. Signed a long term deal with North. 
 

kicked 71 goals in a side with the second fewest amount of inside 50s in the comp. We had the most inside 50s. The best set shot in the league in my view. 
 

Never heard any rumours of us throwing the kitchen sink at him. Would’ve been perfect.  

  On 19/09/2023 at 14:32, JimmyGadson said:

Who are the two?! 

The only pairing I'd say are potentially Mihocek and McStay. But even then, Mihocek is criminally underrated by oppo supporters. 

It's what they have around them that is superior to us as well. 

 

Pies and GWS who I’d have last because I’m not fully buying the Hogan resurgence - kicking still suspect, but in great marking form at the moment. Very much agree Mihocek is underrated, but JVR has all the same traits.

Petty and JVR can both clunk marks and contribute on the ground, if they can play together consistently they’ll improve rapidly.

Agree on what’s around the Pies guys but with Fritsch, Pickett, Tracc and soon to be McAdam we’ll have dangerous forwards. We need a playable second ruck, we need a depth tall back up.

If we spend 2-3 first rounders on guys who make the ball move better up the field (be they mids, backs or half forwards) the tall forwards will have a lot easier time of it.

  On 20/09/2023 at 00:03, DeeSpencer said:

we need a depth tall back up.

Let's hope Adams becomes next years McVee...

  On 19/09/2023 at 21:43, Roost it far said:

A forward half with Petty, JVR, Fritsch and him would be dangerous 

It most certainly would...and be so from the get go....and get BETTER over years.

I personally think too much is made of a singular golden entity. The one that single  handedly wins all. Rarely happens and i dont think we want that anyways. 

When we do get "on" we invariably have  multiple goal scorers. Not uncommon though for someone to have a day out ivf conditions ripe.

You want, imo, a good cohesive unit. A goid forward team. Becomes very hard to match up on and defend.

So whether it's  him or as Red suggests a kinda similar type but a smokey... we need some who CAN... not someone who might one day.

Jamara??? I thought we wanted to kick straighter up forward.

  On 19/09/2023 at 21:19, djr said:

Agree. Everyone on here seems not to rate Joel Smith and I understand that given his history. But he has come on in leaps and bounds this season and became an integral part of our forward system. That's 3 very good contested forwards that can all take a mark. Add Fritsch and McAdam as medium talls as well as our smalls which might include Watson, then the forward line doesn't look that bad. Melksham might even get another contract.

It's our forward entries that I believe is the problem. We don't need a Lynch or a McKay. We have the cattle.

I agree.  If there was a genuinely dangerous KPF out of contract or FA with 3 to 4 solid years left then sure.  I'd be all over him.

However when looking at what is out there, you have to keep in mind that apart from the worst performing clubs, when you're salivating over potential gettable forwards...some of the other club's are delivering the ball to them in a decent or better fashion.

Hitting up leading forwards quite a bit  opens up the forward line for others to do damage out the back etc and also those leading forwards are often taking marks within range and converting.

Put those same players in our mix and i'm not so sure they're as dangerous!

Need class and speed coming out of the middle which gives the forwards better looks and also sees them shooting at goal from higher percentage areas of the forward 50.

That class and speed will also hopefully result in one or two of those mids hitting the scoreboard on the run from a fair way out on occasions.  Adding extra fire power.

This is especially important for us as we presently don't have anyone coming off the square (mids, wingers or HBs) that do this from around the arc other than Tracc once in a while.

People often ask on these forums "Why is it that the oppo always seem to have space for their forwards to work in and ours is always so crowded".

Ok so the answer isn't simple and involves a number of things including speedy and more direct transition.  Something we've lacked somewhat this season as we are more often heading down the line rather than corridor.

Ok so that's one aspect.

But i feel the other aspects that see us with a crowded 50 are...

👉🏼 Forwards (not all of them... Joel played his part in this series imv) not working their leading patterns hard enough and/or high enough to present.  If we aren't doing this as much then of course that's an extra defender able to impact inside our 50.  Leading more often sees their opponent following creating less congestion.

👉🏼 Mids/Wingers not taking the time to scan the 50 or lower their vision when coming towards the 50.  Instead just blindly kicking/bombing the ball to a congested area or worse, to a 2 v 1 etc.

Gives the impression of crowding when in reality we're just making it easy for the oppo to send the bulk of their players to the usual drop zones and defend with numbers.

👉🏼 As per the last point but after marking outside the 50, again just rolling onto their preferred and blindly bombing the ball down the line or into a pocket when players are sometimes free laterally that will open up the ground and / or sitting out the back free on the fat side

We need quality mids / wingers who, when coming towards the 50, can scan/look and then deliver with some finesse to the favoured side or spaces that forwards can run in to and mark more often on the lead.

As well as kicking some running goals from distance.

Some will argu speed on the ball will achieve much of this.  Yes to a degree.  But i would argue you also need leg speed to provide time leading to extea time to pull up, steady and execute towards decent options more often and or shoot at goal a little more accurately.

When we find those mids/wingers, and provided the forwards have some forward skills / nous, talent and work their arses off, everything will (should!!) start to click.

Edited September 20, 20231 yr by Demon Dynasty

  On 20/09/2023 at 09:41, Demon Dynasty said:

I agree.  If there was a genuinely dangerous KPF out of contract or FA with 3 to 4 solid years left then sure.  I'd be all over him.

However when looking at what is out there, you have to keep in mind that apart from the worst performing clubs, when you're salivating over potential gettable forwards...some of the other club's are delivering the ball to them in a decent or better fashion.

Hitting up leading forwards quite a bit  opens up the forward line for others to do damage out the back etc and also those leading forwards are often taking marks within range and converting.

Put those same players in our mix and i'm not so sure they're as dangerous!

Need class and speed coming out of the middle which gives the forwards better looks and also sees them shooting at goal from higher percentage areas of the forward 50.

That class and speed will also hopefully result in one or two of those mids hitting the scoreboard on the run from a fair way out on occasions.  Adding extra fire power.

This is especially important for us as we presently don't have anyone coming off the square (mids, wingers or HBs) that do this from around the arc other than Tracc once in a while.

People often ask on these forums "Why is it that the oppo always seem to have space for their forwards to work in and ours is always so crowded".

Ok so the answer isn't simple and involves a number of things including speedy and more direct transition.  Something we've lacked somewhat this season as we are more often heading down the line rather than corridor.

Ok so that's one aspect.

But i feel the other aspects that see us with a crowded 50 are...

👉🏼 Forwards (not all of them... Joel played his part in this series imv) not working their leading patterns hard enough and/or high enough to present.  Also sees their opponent following creating less congestion.

👉🏼 Mids/Wingers not taking the time to scan the 50 or lower their vision when coming towards the 50.  Instead just blindly kicking/bombing the ball to a congested area or worse, to a 2 v 1 etc.  Gives the impression of crowding when in reality we're jist making it easy for the oppo to send the bulk of their players to the usual drop zones and defend with numbers.

👉🏼 As per the last point but after marking outside the 50, again just rolling onto their preferred and blindly bombing the ball down the line or into a pocket when players are sometimes free laterally that will open up the ground and / or sitting out the back free on the fat side

We need quality mids / wingers who, when coming towards the 50, can scan/look and then deliver with some finesse to the favoured side or spaces that forwards can run in to and mark more often on the lead.

As well as kicking some running goals from distance.

When we find those mids/wingers, and provided the forwards have some forward skills / nous, talent and work thwir arses off, everything will start to click.

Paging the Demonland Trade experts ( @Pennant St Dee et al, and the trade insiders @Dannyz @goodwindees) for the run down on this! Is it O’Sullivan, Caddy, McKercher? (This is where Ethan would step in with his wavy hands “who could it be?”)

  On 19/09/2023 at 22:07, Roost it far said:

Are we, as a club, brave enough to go chase someone or are we sticking to the draft?

Go to the draft. Keep adding top end talent to a winning culture and we'll have sustained success.

  On 20/09/2023 at 10:10, Jerry Lundergard said:

Go to the draft. Keep adding top end talent to a winning culture and we'll have sustained success.

You can't as you won't have the picks. For mine this is the year to be brave. Shake the forwards out there and see if we can't get one over here. I use Jamara as an example as the Dogs are chock full of forwards but are deficient down back. Do we go ok, you guys take Lever we'll have Jamara or Naughton. We then recruit a key back with one of our high picks, play Turner and see how it rolls. I'm not saying this is the scenario but we have to be in the game. Do we offer up Salem, or Sparrow or even Oliver? We want sustained success, the draft alone won't give us that.

Edited September 20, 20231 yr by Roost it far

  On 20/09/2023 at 10:29, Roost it far said:

Do we go ok, you guys take Lever we'll have Jamara or Naughton. 

No, you don't. That would be the definition of counter productive. Fix one area of the field and maim the other.

  On 20/09/2023 at 10:29, Roost it far said:

You can't as you won't have the picks. For mine this is the year to be brave. Shake the forwards out there and see if we can't get one over here. I use Jamara as an example as the Dogs are chock full of forwards but are deficient down back. Do we go ok, you guys take Lever we'll have Jamara or Naughton. We then recruit a key back with one of our high picks, play Turner and see how it rolls. I'm not saying this is the scenario but we have to be in the game. Do we offer up Salem, or Sparrow or even Oliver? We want sustained success, the draft alone won't give us that.

——————

  On 20/09/2023 at 10:10, Jerry Lundergard said:

Go to the draft. Keep adding top end talent to a winning culture and we'll have sustained success.

Im reminded of Roos's take on this.

Trade for need , draft for talent.

We have needs

Are there any rumours or are we still gassing on about needs/like/wishful thinking

  On 20/09/2023 at 10:34, Binmans PA said:

No, you don't. That would be the definition of counter productive. Fix one area of the field and maim the other.

I think Lever is probably too settled in our structure but considering his limitations as an actual defender, he inflicts no damage as an offensive weapon either. Very prone to brain fades too.

I think he gets a very cushy ride

 

  On 20/09/2023 at 10:51, BW511 said:

I think Lever is probably too settled in our structure but considering his limitations as an actual defender, he inflicts no damage as an offensive weapon either. Very prone to brain fades too.

I think he gets a very cushy ride

 

He’s an integral member of the stingiest defence in the AFL. I think he’s going okay. 

  On 20/09/2023 at 10:29, Roost it far said:

Do we go ok, you guys take Lever we'll have Jamara/Naughton.

No, we absolutely do not

  On 20/09/2023 at 10:34, Binmans PA said:

No, you don't. That would be the definition of counter productive. Fix one area of the field and maim the other.

Did you miss the sentence that said “I’m not saying this is the scenario……

 

Edited September 20, 20231 yr by Roost it far

  On 20/09/2023 at 10:51, BW511 said:

I think Lever is probably too settled in our structure but considering his limitations as an actual defender, he inflicts no damage as an offensive weapon either. Very prone to brain fades too.

I think he gets a very cushy ride

 

Agreed. Lever has big upside and poor downside. Opposition teams have learnt to play on in his weaknesses.