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On 10/22/2022 at 11:14 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

Exactly Pennant. This is my point.

I'm seeing first hand the talent that's that's being lost to country footy from the NAB league because clubs aren't willing invest in natural footballers because they're far more interested in going for the raw athlete types who take years to develop. 

Few years ago I played only a few games for Tiwi Bombers in the NTFL comp where former demon Austin Woneaemirri is heavily involved with.

Had the absolute luxury of playing with a guy by the name of Ross Tungatalum who in my opinion is one of the most talented player I've ever seen not to be on an AFL list. He was a cross between Jeff Farmer/Cyril Rioli.

I spoke to one of the coaches about Ross's story and why he wasn't on a AFL list. I was told that Ross was originally picked up by St Kilda as a rookie and only last 1 year because St Kilda did not put the appropriate support around him nor did they invest time into the culture awareness that was needed for Tungatalumto to thrive in an AFL environment even though Ross himself was incredibly desperate to play AFL.

At the time I played with Tungatalum who was mature age and whole lot more mature, I was told that clubs were interested in him but yet still weren't willing to put the individual support around him it would appear that certain player were getting much more needed support then other first year players. I thought what an absolute cop out excuses from some of these AFL clubs.

I get why clubs are willing to invest more time into the raw athletes where footballing ability is secondary, but give me the Tom Stewart’s and Tim Kelly's of the world.

What’s your view on Andy Moniz-Wakefield?

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On 10/22/2022 at 12:14 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

 

I spoke to one of the coaches about Ross's story and why he wasn't on a AFL list. I was told that Ross was originally picked up by St Kilda as a rookie and only last 1 year because St Kilda did not put the appropriate support around him nor did they invest time into the culture awareness that was needed for Tungatalumto to thrive in an AFL environment even though Ross himself was incredibly desperate to play AFL.

 

Im trying to understand how this can be ? I cant think of an industry that puts in more support for the aboriginal people. Where every club seems to have a number of first nation players playing. With dedicated people to help with the transition. Was it St Kilda who didnt have the appropriate support for him ? they seem to have had a number of successful aboriginal players over the journey. 

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25 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

Im trying to understand how this can be ? I cant think of an industry that puts in more support for the aboriginal people. Where every club seems to have a number of first nation players playing. With dedicated people to help with the transition. Was it St Kilda who didnt have the appropriate support for him ? they seem to have had a number of successful aboriginal players over the journey. 

I remember watching him play for the Tiwi Bombers in the days when the ABC used to telecast the NTFL matches. He was highly skilled like a number of his teammates and definitely looked like he could have made it but the environment here is so different. 

I would hope that an indigenous player coming to our club would have the right type of support to give him every chance to succeed.

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On 10/22/2022 at 8:00 AM, Turner said:

touhy, connor mckenna, mike pyke, hugh greenwood, alex keath off the top of my head

e: forgot blicavs and jiath

Thanks I think the ratio of cat B rookies that actually end up making the grade would be very low

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On 10/22/2022 at 10:12 AM, dazzledavey36 said:

Everyone has a sporting talent that comes through the AFL. Thanks for pointing out the absolute obvious....

Put it this way, an athlete doesn't have to play footy for at least 3 years and gets put on a Category B list with a AFL contract because they show talent in some other sport. How easy ey?

I've literally seen this first hand working with  junior development teams that aspiring young footballers grow up their whole life investing time and sacrifice into getting onto a AFL list but then gets told:

1. He's good enough to be on a AFL list but has a few defiencies so unfortunately we wont draft based on that.

2. Has all the footballing talent in the world but you're bit of a ratbag at school so we wont bother.

3. You've got footballing talent but you're either too short or too skinny.

My gripe is the whole Category B list is just a waste of time. In my opinion they should be forced to go down the standard process of going through the state league like the VFL, SANFL etc and earn their spot like everyone else.

This is why I was a big fan of the NGA concept before the Jamarra Ugle Hagan rule came into play.

Clubs put time and resources into kids starting at 10-12 years old and were still made to go through the NAB league to develop their footballing ability. Clubs could get first priority for their work that was put into these kids for all the years they had invested. 

@WERRIDEE also made a good point. Have we potentially just missed out on Finn Emile-Brennan (who imo is a pretty talented young footballer with elite skills and poise) who's come through our NGA system, worked his [censored] off throughout his footballing life to the point now where he's put himself under serious AFL consideration all because we're using that spot on a kid that hasn't played footy since he was 12 and has literally just walked off a basketball court?

Can I also say this isn't a dig at all at young Kyah Farris-White. Fantastic opportunity for him and really hope he grabs his opportunity with both hands and will fully support him.

Just simply not a fan of the system and our record with this on a club level had been poor over the years.

 

No we haven’t missed out on Finn because we can have 3 category b rookie spots.

 

the whole point of category b is to entice elite sporting talent to afl and assist in increasing afl talent.

If you need me to spell it out to you again I’m happy to.

 

it doesn’t take the spot of anyone busting their [censored] through the draft system, so there is literally no disadvantage at all.

 

most of these elite sportspeople who are category b rookies have busted their gut in their sport of choice to get drafted for eg nba, so thinking they have the easy road to afl is simply not correct

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I looked at the posts and everybody agreed we are thin in the ruck area and when we actually addressed that area with a category B rookie some objected whilst others applauded.

I think we should congratulate the recruiters that a player regardless of his background chose the MFC and not the Eagles or Carlton.

If this type of system was not in place players like Blicavs would still be running around at the athletics.

We now have a project ruckman who may become the next Gawn/Grundy or the next Bradtke we would never know if we did not take the risk,

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On 10/21/2022 at 7:57 PM, dazzledavey36 said:

There are far more advanced footballers or ruckman in this instance, either in the NAB league, suburban and country leagues or state level that would be well ahead and much more developed from a footballing point of view.

Getting a bit over clubs getting so sucked in by raw athletic ability over more natural footballers put there waiting for their opportunities. 

It’s a bit unfair to be accusing clubs of getting “sucked in” mate. 
The AFL created the Cat B rookie for this outcome. Personally I think it’s a great pathway and we’ve already benefited (debatable to what extent) with J Smith. 
Cat A rookies is where the club should be targeting the players from country leagues for sure but the criteria for Cat B rookies is pretty clear and obviously comes with a relatively higher risk of busting as we witnessed with young Bradtke. 

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4 minutes ago, McQueen said:

It’s a bit unfair to be accusing clubs of getting “sucked in” mate. 
The AFL created the Cat B rookie for this outcome. Personally I think it’s a great pathway and we’ve already benefited (debatable to what extent) with J Smith. 
Cat A rookies is where the club should be targeting the players from country leagues for sure but the criteria for Cat B rookies is pretty clear and obviously comes with a relatively higher risk of busting as we witnessed with young Bradtke. 

I'm not sure exactly how the rules work, but fairly sure the only options to add mature age players from state or country leagues is through the national draft, rookie draft and mid-season draft.

I think that presents a few too many roadblocks for drafting of mature age talent and they should relax the rules a bit. Personally, I think each side should be eligible to list one mature age rookie per season outside of the different drafts. There would probably want to be certain restrictions, such as a minimum age of 21 and 3 years playing in state or country leagues before they are eligible. If they have been in the system that long all clubs would have had a chance to draft them and have chosen not to, so they should then be fair game to any club willing to add them under a mature aged player rule. I think this would greatly increase the number of opportunities given to mature age players.

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8 hours ago, Tracca said:

No we haven’t missed out on Finn because we can have 3 category b rookie spots.

i'm adamant its only 2 b rookies still

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  • 1 month later...

Well Kyah is a big boy with a lot of filling out to do, reminds me a bit of Tim English the first time I laid eyes on him. Kozzie’s looking in great Nick, looks a bit more solid through the chest love this kid let’s hope he stays and helps us win a couple more flags..!!!

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3 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Kozzi looks like an absolute beast. He will destroy the comp next year

KFW is only 18! His body looks great. I reckon he has more hope than the average project player

Interesting. 

Is this based on having seen him play footy when he was younger or just based off that photo alone?

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Wow, got excited by this photo of Kozzie, looks like a weapon and a half, more NFL wide receiver than a small AFL forward.

I sort of get DD's point, but I always thought cat.b were for the unusual circumstances, we are a unique sport and anything that attracts others to it creates interest is a good thing. I wasn't sure that the end of cat b would mean two more cat.a spots.

The hyphen looks fit for a 18y.o., and would rather train a ruck than get a retread. Our gameplan is backing ruck superiority, cat b is an economical way to invest and our recruiting department deserves our confidence. Lastly was very sorry for Bradtke, he really got rolled by COVID and injuries.

Lastly, I too think there could be a better process and more space for country footy players and others that didn't make it in first two years. Kurt Warner was a pretty classic story.

Edited by DEE fence
Typos
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10 hours ago, DEE fence said:

Wow, got excited by this photo of Kozzie, looks like a weapon and a half, more NFL wide receiver than a small AFL forward.

I sort of get DD's point, but I always thought cat.b were for the unusual circumstances, we are a unique sport and anything that attracts others to it creates interest is a good thing. I wasn't sure that the end of cat b would mean two more cat.a spots.

The hyphen looks fit for a 18y.o., and would rather train a ruck than get a retread. Our gameplan is backing ruck superiority, cat b is an economical way to invest and our recruiting department deserves our confidence. Lastly was very sorry for Bradtke, he really got rolled by COVID and injuries.

Lastly, I too think there could be a better process and more space for country footy players and others that didn't make it in first two years. Kurt Warner was a pretty classic story.

I'm fully behind the recruitment of Category B players, but I'm not sure about the economics argument. All category B's are highly speculative. But, taking great risks can reap great rewards. It makes me wonder about success rates with category B rookies. I'd count Joel Smith as a success. Who else have we had as a category B that's made it? (I recognise that if this scheme had existed when Jim Stynes and Seam Wight joined us, they would clearly be categorised as a success.)

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On 10/23/2022 at 7:55 AM, monoccular said:

Better an optimist who is sometimes wrong than a pessimist who is always right. 

He really has to get nasty in the gym, weight training and excellent nutrition. weight gain and toughening resistance. As a former basketballer, he should already possess some skills handling the ball and going against gravity to take the footy. He seems to move fairly well at this point. A bit of mongrel would help. Worth a try and over 12 months or so, he could have some real merits. He appears to be a similar frame to the very new JStynes who, against all odds, turned into a champion and a team legend.

 

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On 10/24/2022 at 9:11 AM, Action Jackson said:

Imagine if we field a team with Alex Neal-Bullen, Kyah Farris-White, Andy Moniz-Wakefield & Finn Emille-Brennan.

Would have to be some kind of record.

The team sheets would have to be produced in landscape format!

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